.22 for Self Defense?

[Hrfunk]

If you carry a .22 for self defense, you might find

Howard


https://youtu.be/XfL43yMtt9Y

[rintinglen]

A 10-22 and a 25 round mag might be just the ticket for some body who was elderly or otherwise recoil adverse. Back in 1983 I witnessed the result of a shooting wherein the victim took 3 hits from a small 22. He survived, but was clearly incapacitated nearly immediately and likely would have passed on if not for the prompt response of LACO EMT's.

[dverna]

A 10-22 and a 25 round mag might be just the ticket for some body who was elderly or otherwise recoil adverse. Back in 1983 I witnessed the result of a shooting wherein the victim took 3 hits from a small 22. He survived, but was clearly incapacitated nearly immediately and likely would have passed on if not for the prompt response of LACO EMT's.

This is exactly the issue of trying to justify the .22 as a defensive round. Attempting to find a "niche" it fits in.

There are two issues with a .22....one, a rimfire is more prone to a FTF....then is its power/penetration.

As for use by the frail, a better option than a 10-22 is a pistol caliber carbine. Some of them are a tad difficult to operate by weak folks due their blow back actions but an M-1 carbine style would address that. And for a pistol, if a .22 is good enough, a .32 revolver might be a bit better while still not having too much recoil and be easy to use by someone with poor strength.

The comment about not wanting to be hit by a .22 is a given. Heck I do not want to take a strike from my air gun.

If forced to carry a .22LR, Eley ammunition would be something to consider. When I shot Bullseye, I had very few FTF with it. Go to a match and see how many folks using "cheap" .22's have alibis during Timed and Rapid Fire events. And a FTF during a "situation" is not a good thing.

[Hrfunk]

I once had an elderly retired doctor attend one of my classes. His physical condition had declined to the point where he walked with a cane and needed to use it for support. The cane, obviously, occupied one hand any time he was standing. He also had limited hand strength to be able to control anything, to include firearms. He attended the class with an old Ruger standard 22 pistol. While shooting, and supporting himself with his cane, he proceeded to shoot the center out of a target 7-yards away while firing the pistol with his other hand. Was that the most effective weapon for him to employ? I don’t know. What I do know is I didn’t want him shooting it at me.
Howard

[FergusonTO35]

I carry my LCP .22 with Aguila Interceptor 40 grain quite a bit. Out of that short barrel they clock 1000 fps across my chronograph and are centerfire reliable. With 10+1 on board you can get alot of fast follow up shots.

[rintinglen]

Well, I'll stipulate right off that one should use the most powerful gun that one can manage for defensive purposes, but a 32 S&W Long revolver will generate a lot less energy than HR got with his 22 LR Carbine, have a double action trigger twice as heavy (or more) as a 22 Rifle and hold fewer rounds. A 32 H&R or a 327 will be more powerful, but will have more kick. I also have to concede that Rimfire Ammunition is less reliable, especially the bulk pack stuff, but I also have had much better performance from premium Brands, including CCI Stingers.

All told, my 75 year old cousin keeps a Marlin loaded with "Hollownose", and she sleeps well with it in her closet near at hand. She shoots it well, has used it for pest control in years gone by, and its use is familiar. For her, it is probably good enough.

I, on the other hand, keep a S&W 15 shot 9mm pistol ready, and seldom carry anything smaller than a 38 Special, save on really hot days when the LCP comes along for the ride. But I am a Firearms fan, not someone to whom a gun is merely a tool.

[Texas by God]

Call me crazy( and many folks do)- but I'd rather have my Nylon 66 loaded with CCI MiniMag hollow points in my hands than any handgun if bullets are flying in anger.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[GregLaROCHE]

Any gun is better than no gun.

[ShooterAZ]

Any gun is better than no gun.

^^^^^This^^^^^

While it wouldn't be my first choice, at least it is a choice. If it was all I had and the chips are down, 22LR to the rescue.

[tazman]

A Ruger 10/22, provided you can find one that is reliable, would be easy to handle in close quarters and more than accurate enough for home use.
CCI Mini Mags would be my cartridge of choice.
Any semi auto 22 rifle with a full load of Mini Mags would likely do the job. Intruders rarely stay around when bullets start going off, even if they aren't hit by them.
By my bed, I have a 9mm pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun. I will pick up the one I feel I need at the time.

[MUSTANG]

My dad had a friend when I was knee high, who was the Panhandle of Texas head Ranger. He carried a Colt .45 ACP on his hip - but he had a 22LR mini pistol mounted on a Big Silver Belt buckle he wore as his "Hide Out Gun" similar to this:

289892

[pettypace]

If you're gonna carry a .22 for self defense, should it be loaded with HP's or solids?

Assuming equal reliability, I'd go with solids. If the HP's expand, I'd bet they under-penetrate. The solids should go well beyond 12" with a "tumble" in the middle.

[dverna]

Call me crazy( and many folks do)- but I'd rather have my Nylon 66 loaded with CCI MiniMag hollow points in my hands than any handgun if bullets are flying in anger.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Apples and oranges....if I can use a rifle, I have better choices than a .22 LR.

But you make a good point. Most people cannot shoot a pistol well and cannot make hits when it counts. A rifle is much easier to shoot accurately. But it sure is tough to carry one around sometimes.

[dverna]

A Ruger 10/22, provided you can find one that is reliable, would be easy to handle in close quarters and more than accurate enough for home use.
CCI Mini Mags would be my cartridge of choice.
Any semi auto 22 rifle with a full load of Mini Mags would likely do the job. Intruders rarely stay around when bullets start going off, even if they aren't hit by them.
By my bed, I have a 9mm pistol and a 12 gauge shotgun. I will pick up the one I feel I need at the time.

When I lived in the burbs, I was similarly armed for home defense. Now that I live rurally, I added an AR. It is nice to have options. Even nicer not to ever need them.

[tazman]

If you're gonna carry a .22 for self defense, should it be loaded with HP's or solids?

Assuming equal reliability, I'd go with solids. If the HP's expand, I'd bet they under-penetrate. The solids should go well beyond 12" with a "tumble" in the middle.

Years(decades) ago, I shot a squirrel through the head with a Remington hollow point 22lr. The squirrel was lined up such that the bullet went down it's neck and stopped under the skin on it's hind leg. Penetration was roughly 12 inches. The bullet was perfectly mushroomed.
I still have that bullet around somewhere.
That would give a good idea of how a 22lr hollow point might penetrate.

[dverna]

There are interesting videos on performance in ballistic gel. Worth looking at.

[tazman]

Lucky Gunner has some ballistic gel tests using various brands of 22lr in some handguns on his site.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#22LR
Nothing there for rifle that I saw.

[M-Tecs]

For most sane people getting shot with anything is a significant demotivator. For the crazies, druggies and the highly motivated even a center mass 12 gauge slug may not provide a instant stop. An LE friend of mine put a slug through a bad guy's lung while it killed him he was on his feet for at least 30 seconds but turn and ran away before piling up.

Interesting read here https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/shoot-bad-guy-happens-next/

[Finster101]

I believe the whole point of this exercise is not to qualify the .22 as your main defensive weapon but to show in a pinch or out of necessity it is not wholly inadequate. I think he proved that point quite well.

[rockrat]

I carry a .22 often. Took a class at our gun club with it. Instructor chuckled at my choice (PPK/s) at the beginning of class but part way thru, he quit. I use the Browning HP ammo, but have been known to use Mini Mags.

[Daekar]

I know my own skill, and I am far more likely to put a big pile of lead center mass with our Marlin Mod. 60 than I am with any pistol I have ever shot.

I carry a S&W Mod. 60 (357), but if I had to carry my S&W Mod. 63 (22LR) I wouldn't feel undergunned unless I needed to protect myself from bears.

[dverna]

So will this mean I will not get ridiculed for carrying 9mm pistols???

I somehow doubt that.

[Finster101]

So will this mean I will not get ridiculed for carrying 9mm pistols???

I somehow doubt that.

Maybe not but it won't be by me.

[tazman]

So will this mean I will not get ridiculed for carrying 9mm pistols???

I somehow doubt that.

Use what works for you and ignore the detractors. They will not be the ones defending you or your family.

[Daekar]

So will this mean I will not get ridiculed for carrying 9mm pistols???

I somehow doubt that.

We can't fix stupid, unfortunately... anyone who makes fun of 9mm has several solid decades of not paying attention under their belts, so chances are they're not going to give up now.

[Butzbach]

I know my own skill, and I am far more likely to put a big pile of lead center mass with our Marlin Mod. 60 than I am with any pistol I have ever shot.

I carry a S&W Mod. 60 (357), but if I had to carry my S&W Mod. 63 (22LR) I wouldn't feel undergunned unless I needed to protect myself from bears.

I have never taken to and learned to trust a firearm as quickly as I did a Marlin model 60 I bought in 2010. I've owned a scoped Nylon 66 since I was knee high and the Marlin has taken its place. The trigger is much better and loading is a tad easier. If I could just get the front sight hood to stay on I'd be in hog heaven.

[Shawlerbrook]

Ditto on any gun is better than no gun. Carry the most powerful gun you can carry and shoot well. That said, I have had a small 22 pocket auto with me many times. I believe it is one of the assassination tools of choice for Mossad agents.

[Butzbach]

I carry a .22 often. Took a class at our gun club with it. Instructor chuckled at my choice (PPK/s) at the beginning of class but part way thru, he quit. I use the Browning HP ammo, but have been known to use Mini Mags.

My hat is off to you. Anybody who can master that 10lb DA trigger pull and preserve their strong hand web while putting rounds on target with a PPK/s esta uno muy bueno pistolero!

[murf205]

Ditto on any gun is better than no gun. Carry the most powerful gun you can carry and shoot well. That said, I have had a small 22 pocket auto with me many times. I believe it is one of the assassination tools of choice for Mossad agents.

Any gun is better than no gun IF it wporks. I unloaded my KelTec PF9 just before biringing it into the house (inqusitive 7 yr old grandson) and when I was sure it was unloaded, I pulled the trigger and there was NO resistance and it didnt snap. Just to be sure, I loaded it again and stepped outside and nope, it will not fire under any circumstances. That could have been a real thrill if I had to have bet my life on it!

[marlin39a]

When I ride my motorcycle, summer or winter, leather jacket, or mesh jacket, there’s a Ruger SR-22 pistol in there. 11 rds in a lightweight semi-auto.

[Butzbach]

When I ride my motorcycle, summer or winter, leather jacket, or mesh jacket, there’s a Ruger SR-22 pistol in there. 11 rds in a lightweight semi-auto.

When I ride my bicycle, summer or winter, wick away fabric or layers, there's a 357 magnum Ruger LCR in there with three speed loaders (drop one, spill one, load one!).

[Finster101]

My hat is off to you. Anybody who can master that 10lb DA trigger pull and preserve their strong hand web while putting rounds on target with a PPK/s esta uno muy bueno pistolero!

I have a PP in .32 auto. The first round with the hammer down is the only DA pull on it, SA after that. Is not the PPK/PPks not the same?

[Scrounge]

Any gun is better than no gun.

A .22 beats heck out of a rock, too. I fired for my CCW class with a Ruger Mk II, just for grins. Didn't shoot the center out, but the heart and head had some pretty neat clusters on them. No flyers. For a couple of decades, that was the only firearm I had.

[rockrat]

Yep, PPK/s is the same. DA first, SA afterwards. Just like the Beretta 21A I sometimes carry (Gets fed WWSX 22HP)

[Buck Shot]

I have had a small 22 pocket auto with me many times. I believe it is one of the assassination tools of choice for Mossad agents.

IIRC, back in the day, OSS and CIA also used suppressed Hi-Standard 22s for that kind of thing. (Not that assassination is strictly legal and all anymore, mind you)

[lawdog941]

For most sane people getting shot with anything is a significant demotivator. For the crazies, druggies and the highly motivated even a center mass 12 gauge slug may not provide a instant stop. An LE friend of mine put a slug through a bad guy's lung while it killed him he was on his feet for at least 30 seconds but turn and ran away before piling up.

Interesting read here https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/shoot-bad-guy-happens-next/

Very true. Most evil doers are not prepared for a retaliatory strike. They are the wolves preying on the sheep. Nice to see when the sheep make them tuck tail and run.

[memtb]

Ditto on any gun is better than no gun. Carry the most powerful gun you can carry and shoot well. That said, I have had a small 22 pocket auto with me many times. I believe it is one of the assassination tools of choice for Mossad agents.


^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

Yep, properly placed, it works quite well! Many a hog or cow has been transformed into table fare with a well placed 22 RF bullet! Not my first choice....but, often extenuating circumstances dictate our selections! memtb

[Wooserco]

As a statement of fact. A .22LR WILL kill a human being. In a hunting accident in 1958, my uncle shot his best friend by accident while rabbit hunting. Body shot, don't know. Head shot, DOA.

[roverboy]

I saw a Youtube video where a guy was testing different ammo in a 2" pocket gun, in ballistic gel. he couldn't get expansion with any HP ammo. He even tried CCI Stingers, a flat point round would be better than the 40 gr. round nose. HP are pretty much a waste of money.

[RJM52]

Had several shootings I worked as a LEO that involved .22s...no one survived...three at least were DRT and one made it to the hospital but died...

My "defensive" .22 is a Beretta 87 Cheetah. Just a beautifully made gun. Has been used in easily a 100 NRA Basic Pistol classes and no one ever reported a jam or misfire. I carry it sometimes on woods walks. Forgot to take it off when I got home so rather than switch out guns I took it shopping...still have it tucked IWB...hardly know it's there.

This one is loaded with Winchester PowerPoints that are a 40 grain HP, but I don't expect them to expand. The other "carry" load I use is the CCI Small Game Bullet.

Have had several students that ended up with the same model due to either physical issues or recoil/noise aversion...

It works.....

Bob

[uscra112]

Yes, I know the .22 can be lethal - many years ago my next-door neighbor killed his wife and then committed suicide with one. But my nickel's worth is that I'd want to be carrying a cartridge at least as big as the goblins are likely to be using. If Jawon the Carjacker is holding a 9mm, I'd want to disable him, not just annoy him. My first line of defense however is that my retirement BOL is far enough from the urban jungles that I'll probably never have to carry. That said, the bedside gun is a $400 Beretta 92. A bit big for carry, but if things get that bad out here, I won't be concealing it. I've shot SIL's 1911, and loved it. If I could afford a good one, I'd have one.

[bangerjim]

For close up & personal use you cannot beat a .22. If you are trying to shoot someone across the street, mabe not so wise. I never have and hope to never have to use a gun for personal defense.

But as said..........ANY gun is better than no gun at all.

[Murphy]

Back about 1985, I was a rookie cop working nights. We got a call to a shooting at a local Git-N-Go joint. Long story short, the gun was a Ruger Single Six, unsure what ammunition was used. The distance the shooting took place was approximately 20 feet. The bullet hit the cheek bone and ricocheted off, never was recovered. The victim was taken by one of the police the units. He was walking on his own and recovered with no ill effects. Hummm, I'm no expert but I decided right then and there, a .22 LR is not your best bet as a defense handgun. Sure, it beats nothing. If one has options? Go UP in both caliber and power.

Murphy

[BunkTheory]

two MAJOR problems.

They changed the priming compound to a spray on thing that doesnt work correctly, sure they can get the right amount, but the right amount is sprayed over 80% of the interior surface of the cartridge, instead of being 90-100% INSIDE the rim like th eold method did.

And for some reason ammo companies dont mind major defects in rim fire ammunition. ammo needing 3 even 5 hammer hits to set off is FINE in their opinion.

[dverna]

It is too bad no one ever came up with a low recoiling centerfire in .30 caliber that would work in a small autoloader. More killing effectiveness than a .22, more reliable than a RF, and half the recoil of 9mm manly guns.

[charlie b]

The .32acp kinda fills that role.

[dverna]

The .32acp kinda fills that role.

Note...use of purple font...LOL.

[GhostHawk]

Have to admit my little Italian .32acp is my primary choice these days.
Low recoil, low muzzle blast, light weight.

While it does weigh and bulk more than either of my bond arms revolvers in .22mag.

It has the advantage of 12 shots vs 5 and a quick reload.

Ya got to love the .32's, purple text or not. :)

[Mackay Sagebrush]

I worked as a criminal investigator for years. Investigated a fair number of shootings. Suicides, homicides, robberies, etc. A number of them involved .22s. Sometimes .22s worked (eventually). Sometimes they didn't. Lots of anecdotal stories out there. Very few of those stories are based in facts instead of tall tales.

Part of my job as a criminal investigator was attending autopsies, and I participated them pretty regularly. Very, very rarely was a .22 actually lethal by itself. One in particular I recall the victim was ambushed, shot in the face/neck area with a .22 rifle, with the bullet lodging against his spine. It actually did not do any substantial damage. He fought with his ambusher, but ended up being stabbed repeatedly and died from internal bleeding. His lungs filled with blood. Getting shot at point blank with a .22 rifle did not really slow the guy down. He ended up walking blocks down the street before he collapsed at another address.

With the exception of CNS shots, where the bullet actually reaches something vital to the CNS system, .22 rimfire wounds are rarely fatal.

Would I use a .22 to defend myself? Absolutely, if that is all that was all that was available. Do I think it is a good choice as a primary weapon? No.

Too many people rely on "Hope" as their strategy. Hopefully the bad guys will be scared by the mere sight of a gun. Hopefully they will be incompetent. Hopefully I don't have to shoot this underpowered gun. etc, etc.

To each their own.

[dverna]

I worked as a criminal investigator for years. Investigated a fair number of shootings. Suicides, homicides, robberies, etc. A number of them involved .22s. Sometimes .22s worked (eventually). Sometimes they didn't. Lots of anecdotal stories out there. Very few of those stories are based in facts instead of tall tales.

Part of my job as a criminal investigator was attending autopsies, and I participated them pretty regularly. Very, very rarely was a .22 actually lethal by itself. One in particular I recall the victim was ambushed, shot in the face/neck area with a .22 rifle, with the bullet lodging against his spine. It actually did not do any substantial damage. He fought with his ambusher, but ended up being stabbed repeatedly and died from internal bleeding. His lungs filled with blood. Getting shot at point blank with a .22 rifle did not really slow the guy down. He ended up walking blocks down the street before he collapsed at another address.

With the exception of CNS shots, where the bullet actually reaches something vital to the CNS system, .22 rimfire wounds are rarely fatal.

Would I use a .22 to defend myself? Absolutely, if that is all that was all that was available. Do I think it is a good choice as a primary weapon? No.

Too many people rely on "Hope" as their strategy. Hopefully the bad guys will be scared by the mere sight of a gun. Hopefully they will be incompetent. Hopefully I don't have to shoot this underpowered gun. etc, etc.

To each their own.

Thank you for sharing your observations and conclusions based on experience.

[BunkTheory]

I worked as a criminal investigator for years. Investigated a fair number of shootings. Suicides, homicides, robberies, etc. A number of them involved .22s. Sometimes .22s worked (eventually). Sometimes they didn't. Lots of anecdotal stories out there. Very few of those stories are based in facts instead of tall tales.

Part of my job as a criminal investigator was attending autopsies, and I participated them pretty regularly. Very, very rarely was a .22 actually lethal by itself. One in particular I recall the victim was ambushed, shot in the face/neck area with a .22 rifle, with the bullet lodging against his spine. It actually did not do any substantial damage. He fought with his ambusher, but ended up being stabbed repeatedly and died from internal bleeding. His lungs filled with blood. Getting shot at point blank with a .22 rifle did not really slow the guy down. He ended up walking blocks down the street before he collapsed at another address.

With the exception of CNS shots, where the bullet actually reaches something vital to the CNS system, .22 rimfire wounds are rarely fatal.

Would I use a .22 to defend myself? Absolutely, if that is all that was all that was available. Do I think it is a good choice as a primary weapon? No.

Too many people rely on "Hope" as their strategy. Hopefully the bad guys will be scared by the mere sight of a gun. Hopefully they will be incompetent. Hopefully I don't have to shoot this underpowered gun. etc, etc.

To each their own.

Hopefully i have to much ammo on me, hence the overloaded radio flyer i pull behind every day

Hopefully there isnt much blood spray, i just got these shoes you know

Hopefully there isnt to much over penetration. 40 inches in ballistics gel seems about right for a meth head right/.

[FergusonTO35]

Biggest problem I see with using a .22 handgun for self defense is that most .22 ammo is not optimized for short barrels. Some .22 LR loads are about like CB caps when fired from a short barrel. For example, one brick of Remington Thunderjams that happened to be very accurate and sure functioning in my rifles totally stumbled out of the gate in my Ruger Wrangler. You could actually see the bullets in flight like a pellet gun. I chronograph my .22's and so far the Aguila Interceptor 40 grain is the best I have found. It clocks a very consistent 1000 fps out of my little Ruger LCP II and so far has been centerfire reliable and as accurate as anything else. Winchester Power Point and CCI Mini Mag 40 grain work well too, although not as fast.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Call me crazy( and many folks do)- but I'd rather have my Nylon 66 loaded with CCI MiniMag hollow points in my hands than any handgun if bullets are flying in anger.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Hard to argue with that!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Here's an interesting tale that I've told before, but members come and go and maybe you haven't heard it. Back in my misguided youth I was a LEO stationed in Santa Cruz, County, CA. The Coast Range Mountains separate that county and Santa Clara County where San Jose is located. One evening I had occasion to visit Dominican Hospital in Santa Cruz, although I can no longer remember precisely why. Probably following up on a traffic accident.

In the ER was a Hispanic male lying on a gurney. Clipped to the side of the gurney was an x-ray showing the individual's skull. He had an observable .22 sized hole between his eyes, and the x-ray showed a path of travel through his brain front to back. Near the back of the skull the slug had split into two parts, one continuing on and lodging against the inner rear of the skull, and the other part diverging downward and stopping near the base of the skull. Being metal, the fragments showed up very brightly in the picture. The victim was shaking uncontrollably, and no one had any doubt that he would eventually expire.

So how did this happen? Turned out that he was involved in the San Jose drug trade. Some fellow Hispanics believed that he had ripped them off when he was provided some merchandise to sell, but never returned with the money. So they kidnapped him and drove up into the mountains onto Old San Jose Rd. which runs along the crest of the mountains, and had him get out of the car. Then one of them shot him right between the eyes at close range with a .22 handgun. The victim fell over backward and tumbled down about a 35 ft. embankment. The perpetrators drove away, believing him to be dead or dying.

After awhile the victim climbed back up the embankment where he was picked up by a passing motorist and taken to Dominican Hospital. The Sheriff's Dept. investigators interviewed the victim in the ER and he told them exactly who had shot him, named names, and even provided some address information. Not too long afterward the victim did, in fact die.

The Sheriff's Dept. went over to San Jose and rounded up the perpetrators, and they were convicted of murder based on the victim's dying declaration.

So...is there a moral to the story? It might be, in keeping with this thread's subject material, that a .22 can be effective...eventually.

DG

[bowfin]

Any gun is better than no gun.

Correct. If a .22 was all that I had, I would make do. However, I do take great pains in making sure that a .22 won't be all that I have for self defense.

[bowfin]

my little Italian .32acp is my primary choice...It has the advantage of 12 shots vs 5 and a quick reload.

If you are counting on 12 shots and a quick reload, then you might want a bigger gun that needs only one or two shots and no reloads.:-o

[uscra112]

There was a time, of course, when being gutshot with a .22 meant a long and painful death due to peritonitis.

[dverna]

I have a .22LR at the front door for dealing with the aggressive chipmunks and squirrels that I must face. But if something even scarier were to come onto the property, I have other guns not 20 ft away. I must be weird to think that way.

I had to drive to the big city yesterday for a pre-OP appointment. I don't know what I was thinking, but left the Ruger .22 pistol at home. Strapped on the compact 9mm and slipped a spare magazine in the front pocket. Was a waste of time anyway...no chipmunks, squirrels, coyotes or bad guys confronted me.

[popper]

What the bad guy doesn't understand is a 22lr will get you a trip to the hospital. On the other hand, he can take 25 rnds from 3 LE's before he's DOWN.

[rondog]

If you're gonna carry a .22 for self defense, should it be loaded with HP's or solids?

Assuming equal reliability, I'd go with solids. If the HP's expand, I'd bet they under-penetrate. The solids should go well beyond 12" with a "tumble" in the middle.

My opinion as well. Hollowpoints are for varmints, small game, and plinking at water-filled soda cans. For social use, I want those little bullets to boogie as far as they can.

That said, my spook chasers are an M1 carbine and a 10mm M1911A1.

[Daekar]

I have always thought of 22LR as acceptable under some circumstances because I never imagined relying on a single hit. If you break into my bedroom, you are getting a full mag dump from the 22 rifle in my wife's hands at the least. You might get some 158gr boolits from my S&W too if I can hit you... but the rifle won't miss.

[FergusonTO35]

A .22 wouldn't be my first choice but it wouldn't be my last choice either. Confidence goes a long way. I would rely on a .22 with quality ammo any day over anything .44 caliber. Why? Because I know I can put the little .22's where they need to go and fast. A hard recoiling handgun is just a noisemaker for me, I can't shoot them worth a darn. Was it really that long ago that everyone was saying the 9mm is worthless as a defensive round, and dredging up stories about bad guys taking multiple hits from them and continuing to fight? Supposedly, just last summer a cop in Eastern KY put 6 9mm's into a female perp before she stopped, and then remarked "these (danged) 9's are going to get us all killed!" The person who told me this was in LE and in a position to know.

[charlie b]

And that same person could probably have put a mag full of .45acp with same results. All depends on bullet and what it hits.

[ACC]

As someone who has been shot with a .22 RF, I would not want to be shot again. I was 8 at the time and myself and my little sister who was 4 were in our back yard. Our neighbor at the time decided to give his 6 year old son a .22 rifle for Christmas. After a few beers (probably more than a few) he and his brother brought the rifle out to "look it over". What they forgot was that it was loaded. Lucky for me it hit me in the left shoulder about 3 inches from my sister's head. Hurt bad. My dad jumped the fence and smashed the rifle then took me to the emergency room where the DR. told me I was lucky since it was a hollow point and flattened out on my shoulder blade. If it would of been a solid it would have kept going who knows were.

The funny part, if there is one is that our neighbors tried to have my dad arrested.

That been what it is, I would have to say that the gentleman in the video was spot on. A .22 is a whole lot better than a sharp stick. I would recommend solids only to get better penetration.

ACC

[Nueces]

I have a standing weekly lunch with a small group of local cowboy shooters. One member owns the ranch that hosts our nearest club range. We got to discussing defense of our vehicle's cockpits, as in repelling boarders or jackers from the driver's seat. We all carry, but, in general, a proper body carry tends to be hard to reach when buckled in. The ranch owner recommended a vehicle holstered Keltec PMR-30. I thought about it and bought one, to be carried in a Kydex holster at the back of the steel Tuffy center console in my Jeep.

30 rounds of hollow point 22 WMR in one magazine, plus a spare mag. Anticipated range measured in inches, right handed use, as the left is restraining the hand with the blade reaching through the window.

A special use pistol for a special situation.

Oh, yes, we mostly live out in the Texas hills and avoid travel to urban areas. Cockpit defense sidearms are not visible from outside. I have a steel locking underseat drawer in case of need.

[arch408]

I had a .22LR pistol fire in a holster. The bullet went through 3/4 inch of leather before it went through my calf. The entry and exit wounds looked exactly the same. They were over 1 1/2 inches in diameter and looked hamburger. The impact almost knocked me to my knees. It felt like I was hit by a baseball bat. I don’t want to go through that experience again! The scars are a constant reminder.

[dverna]

I had a .22LR pistol fire in a holster. The bullet went through 3/4 inch of leather before it went through my calf. The entry and exit wounds looked exactly the same. They were over 1 1/2 inches in diameter and looked hamburger. The impact almost knocked me to my knees. It felt like I was hit by a baseball bat. I don’t want to go through that experience again! The scars are a constant reminder.

So do you think a 9mm would be a better choice if you are going to shoot yourself? Lol

[Daekar]

So do you think a 9mm would be a better choice if you are going to shoot yourself? Lol

Well... no... lol. Well said.

On the other hand, the older I get, the more I realize that sometimes more is just more. If something smaller, lighter, easier, and cheaper can achieve the required results, then there is no virtue in something larger, heavier and more expensive. I think an interesting comparison is 9mm vs 357 magnum, although it's not 100% analogous. The 357 is significantly more powerful, especially in full-sized guns that are built to tolerate the original 45KPSI loadings. However, if the 9mm is sufficient... why choose the larger, heavier, louder, more expensive, harder-to-control round? (I say this as someone who carries a 357). If we change arch408's post to be about a negligent discharge with a 9mm rather than a 22LR and your post to invoke the granddaddy magnum, the same implication is present - the magnum would do more damage, therefore it is better. We know that's just not necessarily true.

I'm not saying that 22LR is the ideal CCW cartridge for everyone in all situations, but I do think that dismissing it entirely isn't justified by the evidence.

[FergusonTO35]

Well spoken!

[onelight]

I believe the whole point of this exercise is not to qualify the .22 as your main defensive weapon but to show in a pinch or out of necessity it is not wholly inadequate. I think he proved that point quite well.
I agree he did a good job showing that.
I always enjoy HrFunks videos :)

[BunkTheory]

ah yes, the recoil argument,,, now i hate to break it, ive you have even level loads in a 9mm and a 357 magnum, the revolver is going to be easier to shoot.
have never seen anyone saying that the light weight plastic guns in 9mm are enjoyable.. Have seen some feel that elmer keith or skelton loads in a 357 magnum are more fun then "self defense loads" in a compact or sub compact semi auto in 9mm

[Thundarstick]

Having nearly 40 years in the medical field I've seen people die from nearly every caliber you can name, and I've seen them live after being pierced by nearly any caliber. My experience is in line with the.22 works about as well as anything else EVENTUALLY. It's all about what the bullet hits and how important it is. Bigger holes work faster for sure, but small holes bleed out just the same. One neat habit of the .22lr is that it usually has enough umph to get into the chest cavity, but not enough to get out, so the bullet follows the path of least resistance until it runs out of energy. This path usually involves soft things inside a body that are very important, like major arteries or veins, and soft vascular organs like liver, spleen, or kidney.
Would I advocate for, or recommend a .22lr for first line carry, absolutely not! They are however about as lethal as any other handgun, EVENTUALLY.

[oldsalt444]

A 22 for self defense is advisable only for experts since your limited to head and neck shots. I mean someone with serious competition experience. But yes, it's much better than no gun at all.

You want solids for self defense for penetration. Hollow points are for small game. That's what I carry in my "church gun".

[BunkTheory]

A 22 for self defense is advisable only for experts since your limited to head and neck shots. I mean someone with serious competition experience. But yes, it's much better than no gun at all.

You want solids for self defense for penetration. Hollow points are for small game. That's what I carry in my "church gun".

if your using a smaller cartridge then 38 special, 38 smith and wesson, or even 380 acp your more into the "insert muzzle into rapists ear canal before firing"

[tazman]

That's why they were called belly guns. You put the barrel against the person's belly and pulled the trigger.

[FergusonTO35]

How about, just carry what you are comfortable and confident with? You are still better off than the person who is unarmed.