.45acp accuracy ??

[jhalcott]

I have a S&W 645 it shoots cast good enough for self defense ,BUT!!!!
I have tried several loads and bullets. It seems the Lyman super Moly lube is a problem. I can get sub2" groups with a CLEAN barrel ,but after 10 or 15 rounds I get 4 to 6" groups. I have tried the H&G 68 (205 gr), a couple Lee bullets and a Lyman bullet. The Lee 165 lubed with felix OR LLA gets consistent 2" groups or less in the gun. I have tried Bullseye ,PB ,Blue dot and unique. Also a few loads of WST. I have a Burris red dot sight on it (old eyes). I don't SEE any leading when I clean it. Some of these loads are quite dirty and smokey I ran out of Hornady cast bullets . THEY shot very well in this gun, but the H&G's don't seem to like that powder! I have a Taurus 1911 on order and can hardly wait for it.
happy new year!

[docone31]

My Taurus PT 1911, absolutely eats all day long, the Lee 200gn flat nose. It absolutely loves it. No jams, easy cleaning, good accuracy.
I pan lube it, size to .452 and really enjoy. My Commander also loves it although with Blue Dot, my Commander shoots 2" to the left.
I have never used Alox, Moly. I always pan lube.
Smells good.
No leading so far.

[sniper7369]

My Taurus PT 1911, absolutely eats all day long, the Lee 200gn flat nose. It absolutely loves it. No jams, easy cleaning, good accuracy.
I pan lube it, size to .452 and really enjoy. My Commander also loves it although with Blue Dot, my Commander shoots 2" to the left.
I have never used Alox, Moly. I always pan lube.
Smells good.
No leading so far.

That's good to know, I have a PT 1911 on layaway at my FLGS. :mrgreen:

[Pete D.]

I've shot many hundreds of the Lee 200 gr. SWC (ww) sized in a Lyman sizer to .452 and lubed with Lee "hollow tube" Alox. Never a problem. very accurate.
Pete

[docone31]

You will like the PT 1911. The only complaint I have is the grips are too narrow. I have large hands and it feels small. It is my wife's carry pistol, it is a natural to her.
It is just a well made good firing pistol. All the bells and whistles in one package. The trigger is light and first firing, it emptied the clip. Never did it again, but it sure was something that day. I guess it needed breaking in.

[Willbird]

I have a 1911 that is about as tricked out as one be accuracy wise, with a 452460 cast from straight lino lubed with javalina and loaded over 4.0 of bullseye It will shoot from a ransom rest 1.25" for 5 shots at FIFTY yards :-). The 452460 forward band in my mold is a bore rider.

This pistol by the way is NOT an A1, it is a Colt made in 1923, it now has a GO hard slide and very tight slide/frame fit, and a Clark barrel and all sorts of exotic internals....roughly a $1000 investment with a good Pistolsmith in 1988

I played around with some different alloys, or rather the lack of (pure lead) because I had a source for pigs of pure lead then and it was the only metal I could control purity consistently with, pure lead in the same loading only shot 3" at 50 yards, and the measured groove width of recovered bullets was 50% wider than with lino...this illustrated to me that with a clark barrel and bullseye powder that 45 acp needs a harder bullet than pure lead for best accuracy. Lino was the only other "known" alloy I had access to and it shoots quite good using the same loading. I no longer hand a ransom rest so any more testing would be pure speculation....if I had only known about heat treating bullets back then I would have a lot more info to share :-(.

The only other bullet I tested back then was the Lee 200 grain TL bullet, cast from lino in a 6 cavity and lubed with TL they too shot 3" or so at 50 yards...perfectly adequate for 25 yard timed and rapid fire. I decided the minor differences between the 6 cavities were responsible for that bullet being less accurate than the Lymans dropped from a single cavity, no hand crafted BR rifle bullet is cast with any LESS care than I took with those bullets that would group 1.25"...I cast those with a dipper.

After a full days testing of different things I went to the backstop that was 75 yards from the pistol on it's ransom rest, and all of the days bullets had gone into a hole in the backstop clay about as big as my fist.

Bill

[fecmech]

Willbird--I too have an accurized Colt made in 1918 that likes the 452460 cast from lino over 4.2 of BE. Mine won't do 1.5"@ 50 yds but it will average 2.25"@50 yds for five 10 shot groups out of the Ransom. Wheel wts opened things up about an inch and when I was shooting the Bullseye game I used them for timed and rapid fire at the 25 yd line. The Lyman bullet was more accurate out of my gun then the H&G 68 was.

[Willbird]

There is also a factor in semi-auto in a ransom that the slide/frame fit has an influence on the groups that may not be there in real life (out of the ransom rest). The only way around that is to mount a fairly high powered scope on the slide.

Bill

[JDFuchs]

I was reading an article in one of the more recent Handloader magazines that Smith and Wesson was headspacing newer revolvers off the moon clips. Rather then the case mouth as the 45acp was designed for. That might be your accuracy issue. If so you could possibly find, make or have made a new cylinder for it that will locate off the case mouth.

Edit. Sorry thought you were talking about the 625 revolver

[Willbird]

I was reading an article in one of the more recent Handloader magazines that Smith and Wesson was headspacing newer revolvers off the moon clips. Rather then the case mouth as the 45acp was designed for. That might be your accuracy issue. If so you could possibly find, make or have made a new cylinder for it that will locate off the case mouth.

Wow that is just sad if they are doing that. A guy could try some 45 auto rim brass I suppose eh ?

Bill

[SCIBUL]

Hello.
I've got a COLT 1911 A1 gvt model that I accurized many years ago. It wears a Wilson drop in barrel and accuracy have always been very good with LEE 200grs TL bullets lubed with LLA. Those are cast from straight WW (air cooled) and sized to .451. Precision is excellent with 4,3grs of Vectan As (same as your Aliant American select) and exceptional with 5g of Vihtavuori N320 (one little hole at 25m, 5 shots group).
Before this I have had a Remington Rand .45, a Tanfoglio (P.O.S) and a BUL M5. All the good guns (exept the ***) liked the .451 commercial or home made sized bullets. I just bought a a four cavities LYMAN 452630 to try and lubed the bullets with NRA 50/50 formula, but I haven't shoot it yet. Moly lube have never give me good results with hand gun calibers. I use it now in rifle calibers.
Hope this helps.

[jhalcott]

I just got finished cleaning this gun. I was /am amazed at the filth built after only 40 rounds. I have never had so much crud from the same bullet with other lubes Felix, nra and LLA. I had to scrub the stuff off with a stiff brush! The same can of powder was used also.!! Lyman super moly is the only change in components. Is LSM temperature sensitive? It was cold out when I shot last, about 34 degrees. The spring in this gun seems to be quite strong and I get stove pipes using loads you guys say are accurate.

[EMC45]

I shoot a 230gr. Lee TC with 4.5gr. Bullseye, lubed with Moly and Lee Liquid Alox. Wanna talk about dirty?!?!?!

[Willbird]

The 4.0 Bullseye velocity loads will probably require a lighter recoil spring than stock. Most target guns will run 3.5 grains with the normal setup bullseye shooters use, but an old friend dope slapped me and said "use 4 grains your a big enough kid to handle that, plus it cuts the wind better :-)".

With Bullseye and a very good pistol and good bullets the exact charge weight should not be an issue, 3.5 grains all the way up to max should be equally accurate, BUT you will need a better bullet and better lube as velocities increase.

I used to buy some 200 grain semi-wadcutters 500 to a coffecan from a guy who came to bianchi plate matches, those bullets were good bullets with 4.0 of bullseye, but they fell completely apart with 5.0 grains, they leaded and accuracy suffered...they had a hard blue crayon lube on them...that was long before I ever read or posted on cast boolits, now I know those were just poopy bullets with poopy lube...but I did learn something using them, which is good eh ?

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

smiths are notorious for having shallow rifling. They usually run best with heavier bullets cast out of hard alloys like linotype.

[DonH]

Wow that is just sad if they are doing that. A guy could try some 45 auto rim brass I suppose eh ?

Bill

Headspacing in the S&W .45 ACP has in reality always been off the moon clips because I have never met a .45 ACP case as long as the spec. I worked with a 1955 Target for a nuber of years. Without clips it would absolutely swallow .45 ACP cases. With clips it was tight enough that even a slightly high primer would drag very hard on the frame.

[acemedic13]

I am shooting a lee 230 gr. sized at .452. with alox.They drop at 240'ish, made from WW and range bullets. Loaded with 4.2 of bullseye thru a sig p220. They shoot great at 25 yards. I do most of my shooting off hand and do a lot of 3 shot drills. I am doing 2-3 inch groups with these boolits and this shooting method.

Being new to casting I have kept it really simple and got great results. I am about to take the plunge and get a lube sizer and start with some new ventures.