Boolits softening with age

[bobk]

I'm not educated enough to really understand what happens with a lead-tin-antimony mix, but I do understand that heat treating them, or water dropping them, will make them harder. I understand that it takes a while for them to reach full hardness. Now, reading on this forum, I have learned that they will slowly soften over time. I DON'T understand that, but my question is, does arsenic-hardened alloy eventually soften, too? Is the shot that I have getting softer with age? What I would like is to have an alloy that remains constant, which is why I don't water drop. Truth be known, I would like to standardize on 50/50 lead/WW for all my hunting boolits in cartridge guns. Maybe mix that half and half with lead for the muzzleloaders.

So, is arsenic more stable?

Bob K

[mooman76]

It's the water dropped bullets that are harder through water dropping that eventually go back to original hardness as if they were not water dropped over a period of time. At least that is my understanding. There seems to be a little conflick though on how long it takes to soften.

[NuJudge]

The softening will be noticeable after awhile, but slows quickly. To return to the softness of slowly cooled should take a geological age. I've written several threads on the process.

CDD

[bobk]

I guess what I am asking is, do arsenic boolits soften in a similar manner? If they all act the same, then the question is, why not achieve the desired hardness through the alloy mix, which presumably will never change?

Bob K

[44man]

My understanding is you need a trace of arsenic for the boolit to harden in the first place so I would answer YES, they will also soften over time.
However I have boolits that are years old and I'll be darned if I can see a difference in how they shoot. I have shot boolits aged a week after casting, mixed with old boolits and they all go in the same group.
This is one of the little things I would not worry about.
I don't think the alloy matters that much either, they all do the same thing so the alloy that shoots the best for you will still shoot the best, old or newer.
I find alloy is not too important unless accuracy is bad or you get leading. Once a boolit works you can be in a fairly wide range of Brinnel hardness without seeing a change, but to go under is worse then going harder in most cases.
If your aging boolits drop a few Brinnel points, you will not notice.

[Ricochet]

Yes, and no. Arsenic isn't necessary for hardening, though it's helpful (and usually present in trace amounts in any case), and quenched arsenical alloy will soften gradually just as alloys without it. But like NuJudge said, you're not going to live long enough to see your quenched boolits soften to the same hardness as air cooled ones.

[felix]

All material activity stops at absolute zero, which is defined by man as the temperature which indicates no heat exists. Nowhere on earth does that condition exist because of the sun, and of other energy sources converted into an equivalent heat measurement. Now, about boolits in particular. We need the heat to make a 'solution' of something so that when the heat is dropped that solution turns into something we can use. When the solution becomes a solid is the major determination of what we finally get. Did it become a solid instantly, or did it take a lot of time? The alloy will be more stable over time if and when there was an instant solidification. That is pretty near impossible, right? Especially when the alloy had stuff in it that destroyed the uniformity of solidification. Every stinking mold is different when it makes boolits because of the characteristic of heat transfer from it to the ambient. ... felix

[44man]

How true Felix but when we pull the trigger do those itty-bitty changes make a difference?
I have some molds that sometimes refuse to drop a boolit but the next one falls out as soon as I open the mold. All hit the water at a different time. Funny they all go into 1" at 100 yd's from a revolver.
Naw, I ignore the little stuff! I won't waste a second weighing my boolits either.
Some get too technical and anal, then shoot 25 yd's! :kidding::kidding:

[felix]

44man, some of us can shoot, some of us think we can shoot, and most of us would rather read about others who can shoot because we know we can't shoot. You are in the first category, and I am in the last category. ... felix

[cajun shooter]

Felix, I sat here and had a good chuckle as I read your answer to 44 Man. Both of you Gentlemen have made my day a better one and I thank you!

[44man]

44man, some of us can shoot, some of us think we can shoot, and most of us would rather read about others who can shoot because we know we can't shoot. You are in the first category, and I am in the last category. ... felix
Now you know I don't believe a word of what you said! :confused::confused: Anyone that designs the best lube ever MUST shoot good. Besides, I need bags to shoot good, I shake too much in my old age! :veryconfu Even a shot of ridge ripple doesn't work anymore.

[felix]

I know, I sure do know. A bout with the horsepital several times in the last half decade "done done me in". The Ripple they gave me over the course must have had some Rosie O'Grady mixed for good measure. Their pre-op stuff, maybe some form of sodium pentathol, made me tell the truth in that was able to shoot. But, then, that must have been a lie to myself, and the docs, taking that statement to the bank, returned the favor with the best several drunks I've had in my life to prove that was a lie. So, now, I don't know what to believe, but can't wait to get some of that new concoction they've developed, or are developing, from the puffer fish poison. That, I've read is the very best of the best Scotch/Irish (wiskey/wisky).. ... felix

[44man]

Oh how I love single malt! [smilie=w:[smilie=w: Someone brought me a bottle once years ago. Then I seen what they paid for it and I have been thankful ever since that it is not an ingredient in your boolit lube. [smilie=s:
Now don't get any goofy ideas Felix! :veryconfu