Casting .22 Airgun Pellets

[dverna]

Would you be kind enough to share your data and experience? What is your average group size at 50 yards? How does accuracy compare to commercial pellets? Do you use pellets as cast or are they coated with anything? Do you weight sort and what is your rejection rate? Which mold are you using and what is your production rate? What advice would you offer to someone looking into casting pellets?

If it matters, I am using PCP rifles.

Thanks

[GhostHawk]

I have cast .22 round balls from a sharpshooter mold. In both my Hatsan air rifles (95 and 135 both gas piton jobs) they out performed pellets on my range, but I only have 25 feet in my basement. City ordinance makes it unlawful to discharge any projectile weapon even a nerf gun even on my own property.

At 25 feet both rifles turned in 5 shot groups that were one ragged hole smaller than a dime. About 50% smaller than my standard Crossman Premier Hollow Points. How they would do at longer range I have no clue.

Those were perhaps a bit harder alloy than they should be. Roughly 50% COWW and 50% range scrap.

Gets a lot harder with distance though.

[Mal Paso]

I have cast .22 round balls from a sharpshooter mold. In both my Hatsan air rifles (95 and 135 both gas piton jobs) they out performed pellets on my range, but I only have 25 feet in my basement. City ordinance makes it unlawful to discharge any projectile weapon even a nerf gun even on my own property.

At 25 feet both rifles turned in 5 shot groups that were one ragged hole smaller than a dime. About 50% smaller than my standard Crossman Premier Hollow Points. How they would do at longer range I have no clue.

Those were perhaps a bit harder alloy than they should be. Roughly 50% COWW and 50% range scrap.

Gets a lot harder with distance though.

I've looked at the NOE pellet molds and the skirt on a 22 pellet looks like problems to me. A round ball should be much easier.

Is there a particular mold or just 22 sharpshooter? What is the finished diameter?

Thanks

[greenjoytj]

Rather than cast skirted pellets it might be possible to find or have made dies that can swagge skirted pellets in a press. You still might have to cast a basic core shape that take a final form in a swagging die. Just throwing a different idea out there.

[GhostHawk]

I don't have micrometers. I have a cheap harbor freight calipers.

They are bigger than the CPHP pellets, smaller than a .224 bator cast boolit.

They were a touch bigger than bore. I tapped them into place with a plastic handled screwdriver handle.
Took 3-5 good taps to set them in flush the way they need to be.

So essentially I was "swaging" them down to fit the bore. If I had to guess I would say .222.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've looked at the NOE pellet molds and the skirt on a 22 pellet looks like problems to me. A round ball should be much easier.

Is there a particular mold or just 22 sharpshooter? What is the finished diameter?

Thanks

Dang, I didn't know NOE made Pellet rifle projectile molds?
Now I guess I need one :D
I imagine a Lead/tin alloy like 20:1 along with plenty of heat, would be needed to get skirt fill out?

[dverna]

Rather than cast skirted pellets it might be possible to find or have made dies that can swagge skirted pellets in a press. You still might have to cast a basic core shape that take a final form in a swagging die. Just throwing a different idea out there.

Corbin makes a kit for pellets. Cost is $516.

[Mal Paso]

I looked hard at the NOE mold, I think it was $125 and Corbin swagging then I bought 5,000 pellets for $100 to give me time.

The round ball looks like the best inexpensive way to consistent ammo. Thanks GhostHawk.

[GhostHawk]

Mold was the .22 sharpshooter. .22 round balls on both sides.

Crossman Premier Hollow points measured avg .220 to .221.
Cast buckshot measured .225 to .230, weighed average of 15.5 gr. Which surprisingly is just a bit heavier than the CPHP at 14.3

This was with my elcheapo Harbor freight digital caliper not a precision instrument.

The real drive for me was to have a way to cast my own airgun ammo "If needed" ie SHTF.
Meantime I have CPHP's stacked wide high and deep.

[dverna]

Mold was the .22 sharpshooter. .22 round balls on both sides.

Crossman Premier Hollow points measured avg .220 to .221.
Cast buckshot measured .225 to .230, weighed average of 15.5 gr. Which surprisingly is just a bit heavier than the CPHP at 14.3

This was with my elcheapo Harbor freight digital caliper not a precision instrument.

The real drive for me was to have a way to cast my own airgun ammo "If needed" ie SHTF.
Meantime I have CPHP's stacked wide high and deep.

You are a smart man..."hoarding" (LOL) pellets just in case. I will do the same. 40 tins of Crosman pellets (20k) will be an investment of $250 at current prices...cheap shooting fun for a long time.

BTW, went to an airgun forum and not finding a lot of good info on making pellets....but there a lot of threads yet to go through. If I find anything of interest I will report back on this thread. There is not a lot of reporting of groups and that could mean cast accuracy may be iffy. When a guy posts a quarter size group at 30 yards that does not impress me. Crosman's shoot better than that and cost $24/1000...and before the panic Walmart had them for $15/1000.

[GhostHawk]

I bought most of my CPHP's at 10 to 12$ per thousand. And yes, it is good to have the extra money to stack deep wide and high.

I may never use most of my stash. But someone will. If that someone is a relative, that is just sweeter yet.
Still having a good stash makes for good long quiet nights sleep.

[GhostHawk]

Subtotal(10 items)
$62.40
Total after taxes

$67.08
That is for 5k rounds. I just decided the price is not likely to get lower. And maybe I could be a bit smarter than I was. :)
Besides, with the price of primers, maybe I'll just go back to shooting the airguns more. Maybe a lot more.

[Mal Paso]

As far as I can tell Sharpshooter USA 22 round ball molds are no longer made. Lee doesn't go that small. NOE doesn't have any and nothing on ebay.

The skirt of the NOE pellet is .224".

How about a Group Buy for an 8 cavity 22 round ball.

[dverna]

Ghosthawk, where are you finding pellets at $6.70 per ton?

Thanks

[GhostHawk]

6.24 per 500 at walmart.

Still a decent price.

67.08 devided by 5000 = 0.013416 per pellet. Or aprox 1/10 the cost of a .22lr, a third of the cost of a primer. (If you could find primers)
With 150$ to 300$ for your choice of rifle its still an inexpensive varmint killer, meat in the pot grabber. And its fun.

[GhostHawk]

Mal Paso, yes, unfortunately Sharpshooter went bust. I would look at track of the wolf and see how low you can go.

A #4 buckshot should be in the .27 caliber area. Entirely possible those could be lubed with some thinned alox and run through a .25 sizer giving you an alternative to expensive .25 caliber pellets.

Just keep your mind open, consider all possibilities.
Best of luck.

For .22's its hard to improve on my old standby, Crossman Premier Hollow Points.
Consistent, reasonably accurate to reasonable ranges. Hard to beat Walmart for prices but you do need to do the due diligence.
Check back once a week and see what prices are.

[dverna]

You are on target Ghosthawk. PCP's have opened my eyes and given me another aspect of shooting to enjoy....and best of all, it is both cheap and accurate. I have no use for guns that will not shoot well. Getting sub 1" groups at 50 yards with cheap pellets is a blast. None of my .22 LR's will do that unless I want to shoot target grade ammunition...and that is not cheap.

When the grandkids are here, we can shoot for a couple of hours for less than $10 and not need hearing protection.

I followed the threads of OS OK on his journey with .22's. His honesty was refreshing. Not just putting up his "good" targets...but ALL his targets. He showed the reality I had also struggled with. Sure, we can get some great groups with affordable ammunition but I have never had a .22 gun/ammo combo that was a true 2 MOA gun at 50 yards. And no way this old cheapskate was going to pay more than $10/box for "good" .22's.

His results, or lack of them, told me going down that rabbit hole was not going to help me. My goal was to shoot sub 1" at 50 yards.

I doubt I can shoot any better than Charlie, and I was not going to invest in better rifles/ammo that he was using. That left me with PCP airguns as my "shot" at finding cheap and accurate shooting. NSB was a great resource and he is no slouch behind the trigger either.

I have a "true" sub 1" rifle at 50 yards in the Daystate ($1000). I have fired 168 5 shot groups and the average (with all pellets) is .76". I have only fired 25 groups with the $300 DAR at 50 yards and it is delivering .90"...need more testing to confirm it will be a "true" sub 1" rifle but I suspect it will be with pellets it "likes".

[Mal Paso]

6.24 per 500 at walmart.

Still a decent price.

67.08 devided by 5000 = 0.013416 per pellet. Or aprox 1/10 the cost of a .22lr, a third of the cost of a primer. (If you could find primers)
With 150$ to 300$ for your choice of rifle its still an inexpensive varmint killer, meat in the pot grabber. And its fun.

Must be in store, 500s are out of stock online. I will have to traipse to Marina, Walmart won't pay Carmel/Monterey real estate prices.

Anyone else for a 22 round ball mold? MP 8 cavity?

[Geezer in NH]

BPI F super buck is .220

Nickle plated is .215 to .220

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Nickel-Plated-lead-buckshot-F-56mm-11-lbs/productinfo/NP1FB/

[dverna]

Must be in store, 500s are out of stock online. I will have to traipse to Marina, Walmart won't pay Carmel/Monterey real estate prices.

Anyone else for a 22 round ball mold? MP 8 cavity?

IMO there is very little chance of those balls working past 10 yards. And by "working" I mean decent groups at 25 yards. The econo Crosman's will group under 1/2" at 25 yards in a $300 rifle.

I am not sure Ghosthawk has shot them past 25 ft. but I would defer to his experience.

[Mal Paso]

BPI F super buck is .220

Nickle plated is .215 to .220

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Nickel-Plated-lead-buckshot-F-56mm-11-lbs/productinfo/NP1FB/

I think those might be too hard. They are Antimony/Lead with a (heavy) nickel plating. Pellets are soft lead.

I "need" a new mold. LOL I put a post down in Group Buy Discussion. I am thinking .224" finished size.

[Mal Paso]

IMO there is very little chance of those balls working past 10 yards. And by "working" I mean decent groups at 25 yards. The econo Crosman's will group under 1/2" at 25 yards in a $300 rifle.

I am not sure Ghosthawk has shot them past 25 ft. but I would defer to his experience.

You may be right, I just think that casting a perfect .022" thick skirt on a pellet will be tricky. I've only seen 2 reviews, they were not positive but I've no idea how experienced the casters were.

[GhostHawk]

Dverna I suspect that I agree with you.

They do have one advantage over a pellet, wind will mess with them less. Less to get aholt of.

I have not shot them at 25 or 50 yards because it would either cost me 20$ range fees (assuming I could find one that would let me shoot an airgun at that range) or it is 20 + miles one way to an "open" range with no RSO's, no rule enforcement, and no safety. Anything could happen out there.

The last option is a 40 mile drive out to the farmland I am selling via Contract for deed. I suspect those boys might look at me a mite strange. But I doubt they'd say a word.

None of which gives me any incentive to actually test those round balls. I'll let someone else lead and see what they say.

True MOA 1/2 inch at 50 yards I'd be pretty surprised. But it is possible. Not that I'd bet the farm on it. But I wouldn't bet the farm against it either. Miracles happen some days.

It was an investment I made, and something I played with because I was interested.

[GRid.1569]

Doesn’t sound like a cost effective use of time for airgun pellets but... it’s your time...

[Alferd Packer]

If you buy a NOE pellet mould you get three different pins to form the base skirt on the pellet.
Put another way, you get three different skirt thicknesses or weights of pellet.
If you use a hot plate to get the moulds hot and keep them hot via the hot plate you will have no trouble with skirt fillout.
I shoot the lightest pellet from a pump up Benjamin .22 and the thick

est skirt from a .223 primer only cartridge case.
I need a heavier duty pellet rifle to shoot the thick skirts, although the Benjy will still shoot them but being heavier. at a lower but deeper penetrating velocity.
It's all fun and I just use wheel weights to cast them.
NOE also sells sizing dies any size .217 etc.
Casting and Handloading, it's all experimental and just depends on how much time you are willing to invest.
Those in a hurry can't afford to waste time waiting for the lead to get hot enough to cast.
Those people should go buy Walmarts pellets because next week it may be politically unwise for them to stock those lead thingies that pollute the environment.
That's about it.
Just a retired pensioner who found out just what the 'tired' in retired means.The rest you'll have to figure out on yourownselves time.
Good Luck!

[dverna]

Alfred,

I am retired as well. It was very interesting that the NOE mold comes with different pins.

I am going to take your advice and buy pellets. I enjoy the shooting aspect of our hobby and will leave the fun of casting to those who prefer that aspect.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Mold was the .22 sharpshooter. .22 round balls on both sides.

Crossman Premier Hollow points measured avg .220 to .221.
Cast buckshot measured .225 to .230, weighed average of 15.5 gr. Which surprisingly is just a bit heavier than the CPHP at 14.3

This was with my elcheapo Harbor freight digital caliper not a precision instrument.

The real drive for me was to have a way to cast my own airgun ammo "If needed" ie SHTF.
Meantime I have CPHP's stacked wide high and deep.

I have two Harbor Freight calipers and info in the box says accurate to with in .1000 of an inch and my expensive micrometer comfirms that.

[GhostHawk]

I have two Harbor Freight calipers and info in the box says accurate to with in .1000 of an inch and my expensive micrometer comfirms that.


I both agree and disagree. I obviously have one and use it. For my needs for the most part it is good enough.

But when you are talking about the difference between a .222 pellet and a .2235 round ball, and accuracy is only to 0.1.
Well its not what I would call precision. Better than nothing. But not a whole lot better.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I both agree and disagree. I obviously have one and use it. For my needs for the most part it is good enough.

But when you are talking about the difference between a .222 pellet and a .2235 round ball, and accuracy is only to 0.1.
Well its not what I would call precision. Better than nothing. But not a whole lot better.

Agreed, especially in a pellet gun. Considering cast boolit .25 and up .001 is quite close enough. I think for the price of a harbor freight, I paid $9.99 each on sale a few years ago. I just now saw a caliper selling for a fair price of $19.99 on the web, that's not a bad price, except they only guarantee an accuracy of 0.01, that is unacceptable. I will keep using my Harbor freight with confidence.

[whisler]

I'm confused. In post 27 you say accurate to .1000 (1/10) and in post 29 you indicate .001 (1/1000). Which is it?

[45-70 Chevroner]

I'm confused. In post 27 you say accurate to .1000 (1/10) and in post 29 you indicate .001 (1/1000). Which is it?

Sorry about that post 27 should have been .001, I should have proof read it before posting.

[whisler]

Thanks for clearing that up.