Which DA revolver for .45 Colt?

[Idaho45guy]

My 2000th post on CB is entirely appropriate to the forum as I am contemplating replacing my Ruger Bisley 5.5" in .45 Colt with a revolver in the same caliber.

I love my Ruger! It is accurate, beautiful, wonderful trigger, and makes me smile. However, it's actual job is to be big medicine for woods carry during those rare times I am on the outskirts of grizzly country.

In studying bear attacks, and even cougar attacks, a single-action is not ideal. I double-action is.

So, I am aware of a few revolvers available in .45 Colt. And I understand that I can get a revolver in .45 Casull and have the option of just shooting my .45 Colt loads in it.

Looking for a revolver in stainless, with 4" barrel or less, strong enough for hot .45 Colt loads, popular enough to find holsters for it, and under $1000.

The Ruger Alaskan seems to fit the bill, as does the S&W 625 Mountain Gun. Any other to check out?

[Winger Ed.]

I've always been a S&W Model 25 fan.
N frame Smiths just seem to fit me.

With the moon clips, it'll shoot .45ACP.
And I think the cylinder is too short for store bought .410s, but using their hulls should be a good place to start for shot loads.

[9.3X62AL]

I wouldn't run a S&W N-frame 45 Colt much past old-school blackpowder ballistics--255 grain bullets at 950-1000 FPS. The Ruger Redhawk/Super RH variants in 45 Colt are capable of safely containing far more intrepid load levels. Both are excellent revolvers.

[Idaho45guy]

Ouch! I just went on Gunbroker and tried to see what the Ruger Alaskans were going for. Only two on there. One was NIB and had 20+ bids to over $1700!

MSRP is $1400.

The only S&W in .45 Colt under $1000, new or used, is the Governor, and by the looks of it, I don't think it would stand up to hot .45 Colt loads.

[Idaho45guy]

I wouldn't run a S&W N-frame 45 Colt much past old-school blackpowder ballistics--255 grain bullets at 950-1000 FPS. The Ruger Redhawk/Super RH variants in 45 Colt are capable of safely containing far more intrepid load levels. Both are excellent revolvers.

Yep, just checked out a Governor forum and they are running a 250gr with 9.0 grains of Unique. They stated the Governor is rated at 21,000 CUP.

[boatswainsmate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfcWPOecspQ

[falmike]

I had a Ruger Redhawk. Nice grip and heft but trigger not so nice

[Idaho45guy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfcWPOecspQ

Perfect! Now to try and find one for $1000 or less...

Ouch, again... Used ones are going for nearly MSRP prices.

I had no idea that the revolver market was so crazy.

[downzero]

My choice is the Ruger Redhawk, but if I had it to do all over again, I might have the Super Redhawk Alaskan.

[Idaho45guy]

Well, it seems used Blackhawks like mine are going for over $1000, so might be able to sell it and then afford a Redhawk.

Mine shows well...

289362

[downzero]

Well, it seems used Blackhawks like mine are going for over $1000, so might be able to sell it and then afford a Redhawk.

Mine shows well...

289362

That is the one SA revolver I'd love to add to the safe someday

[Winger Ed.]

The only S&W in .45 Colt under $1000, new or used, is the Governor, and by the looks of it, I don't think it would stand up to hot .45 Colt loads.

A Model 25 for a decent price might be a 'wait, and hunt a used one down' sort of project.
A buddy had one he treasured. He's a over the road trucker gone for weeks at a time.
A few years ago he got home and discovered the wife sold it for some give-away price.
Ya might be able to hit on a deal like that.
(the wife was in poor health, and passed away before he could throw her out on the street for that)

Anyway:
Plain vanilla, cast .45Colt loads were always plenty for me, and a real hand full in my Bond derringer, however;
if ya want one of the big sasquatch stompers, ya might want to put a .454 or S&W .500 handgun into the equation, and on the list.

[sharps4590]

Ruger Redhawk for DA and stout loads. I had one and I liked it but I like the Freedom Arms Mod. 97 in 45 Colt a LOT better. The Super Redhawk is just too god-awful ugly to ever live in my gun safe..

[Catshooter]

You mightwant to define "hot loads" prior to purchase, unless your going with the Redhawk. Smiths won't take much in the way of hot and the top of what they do take, since they're so light, recoil somewhat.


Cat

[DougGuy]

RH, SRH, or DW. Smith and hot loads don't belong in the same camp.


In studying bear attacks, and even cougar attacks, a single-action is not ideal. I double-action is.

Sorry, 12ga with slugs is THE BEST bear defense you can carry with you short of staying home and watching them on youtube.

If you want to hunt with a DA, that would be great for large game but defense against very dangerous game a handgun of any make model or caliber would not be my first choice.

[Mk42gunner]

My experience with Redhawks and Super Redhawks is a bit dated, but I was eminently pleased with a 5½" stainless Redhawk in .44 Magnum. The Supers came out in the same time frame, and they were way to big and bulky to be a reasonable carry gun in my opinion.

This was way before Ruger started chambering them in anything except .357, .41, and .44 Magnum.

Now I think they make one with a 4.2" barrel to be legal in Canada. It might just fit your bill.

Robert

[ddixie884]

I have 2 custom 4" RHs in .45Colt and they would be my choice for dangerous animal protection. They will take any .45Colt load from cowboy action to loads beyond BH levels................

[contender1]

I think you've already discovered that the Ruger Redhawk in 45 colt is the better choice to fit your needs. Yes,, on GB & all, prices are kinda high right now. BUT,, careful looking, shopping local gun shows & trading places, auctions etc, you might score one for a price closer to your $1000 mark.

[sixshot]

If you want big time power you have to pay the price, money wise & recoil wise, there's no free lunch. You might want to re think the single actions though, they aren't as slow as you think if you practice..... some people don't like to practice. Big, nasty critters aren't impressed with a shot in the dirt, you have to hit them.
That Ruger bisley you have is a dandy gun & you can become very good with it & very fast with it if you practice. If you must get the DA, get the Redhawk.......and practice!!!

Dick

[Outpost75]

I am not convinced that heavy "Ruger Only" loads are needed in the .45 Colt for protection from large animals. Larry Gibson pressure tested for me .45 Colt loads using the Accurate 45-290H ogival flat-nosed bullet with 7.5 grains of Bullseye, which give 855 fps from a 4-5/8" Ruger Blackhawk and 880 fps from my 5-1/2" Colt New Service, at pressures approximating .45 ACP. Velocity and pressure data below from Larry's Contender test platform.

Accurate, clean burning, astounding penetration. I use the same charge with 250-270 grain cast for 900+ fps, very satisfactory and does not shake the SAA clones or New Services apart.

289376289377

[JimB..]

I get that folks have their favorite calibers, but for this application why not 44 mag? The 454 casull tops either, but the recoil starts to become a greater challenge when you’re shooting rapid fire with one hand (and hopefully your strong hand). Given prices I’d try to borrow or rent a couple of the potential choices before swapping out.

[Lloyd Smale]

i love my mountain gun but agree with the 44 suggestion. Unless your buying a huge gun like a ruger alaskan or a tarrus raging bull the 44 will just allows for more power in a simular sized package. A 44 smith N frame will take loads ALOT more powerful then the 45 colt version. You can even go smaller and get one of the 5 shot K frame 44 mags. I own and have owned MANY 45 colts. But that said ive always shook my head at the cult following it gets and even the same for the 41 mag. If your looking at handguns logically the 44 mag will always win. Its the 3006 of handguns. Its never a wrong choice.

[Bigslug]

I get that folks have their favorite calibers, but for this application why not 44 mag?

Fair point, but I'm pretty sure he wants to shoot his Bisley ammo in the new acquisition.

The round butt Redhawk in .45ACP/Colt is a nice choice. I often wish it had no ACP capability (I pretty much don't use it). The square-butt .44 will get you there as well.

Agree with Outpost75 that "flamer" loads aren't necessary. . .and they really aren't all that shootable in something as light as a S&W Mountain gun. 250-275 grains at 900-1000fps will solve your problem - slower even.

[Thumbcocker]

How many shots does one get in the average (if there is such a thing) bear encounter? How much time does one have to aim and shoot?

I have never seen a live bear so I have no frame of reference. If you are looking at a situation where you are going to get 1 or possibly 2 shots max. Does DA vs. SA make a difference? I don't know. Just asking.

[memtb]

How many shots does one get in the average (if there is such a thing) bear encounter? How much time does one have to aim and shoot?

I have never seen a live bear so I have no frame of reference. If you are looking at a situation where you are going to get 1 or possibly 2 shots max. Does DA vs. SA make a difference? I don't know. Just asking.


I used to shoot a lot of single action....it became a reflex, muscle memory action for me. I personally felt that for 1 or 2 accurate rounds I was as fast or nearly so, as compared to my shooting of a double-action. Whether it be single or double action, if you have a firearm of substantial “horse power”, some time will be required to re obtain the target .....this is where the hammer will be “thumbed back”! JMO.

For my hunting, I’ve gone to (in the early ‘80’s) a double action revolver....simply because I shoot them more accurately at longer ranges! I would use the same firearm for a potential bad encounter, not because it’s substantially better....but, that’s what I will have with me. My singles are now retired!

Oh....have also moved up from .44 caliber (429) to 45, for the somewhat improved performance on big animals! memtb

[downzero]

I get that folks have their favorite calibers, but for this application why not 44 mag? The 454 casull tops either, but the recoil starts to become a greater challenge when you’re shooting rapid fire with one hand (and hopefully your strong hand). Given prices I’d try to borrow or rent a couple of the potential choices before swapping out.

45 Colt out of the right gun has significantly more power than 44 Magnum, which makes sense from a physics perspective as the force of the powder burning is over a significantly larger area with a .45 than a .42 (44 is named after an earlier convention of heeled bullets and is not actually .44). How much more power depends on precise loading, but at the same pressure and with a similar bullet weight, .45 Colt is MUCH more powerful. .454 Casull is a much higher pressure cartridge than either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, as it isn't just the increased powder capacity that makes the 454 a great deal more powerful than 44 or 45.

Either one of them will do the same job anyway, but don't discount 45 Colt out of the right gun. If you want to shoot a S&W or you already have a lever gun in 44 Magnum, it's the clear choice. But if you're starting from scratch and can shoot either, 45 Colt is just as good a choice as any. In fact, with the new Redhawk also shooting .45 ACP, it's almost a no brainer for me.

[JAC43]

45 Colt out of the right gun has significantly more power than 44 Magnum, which makes sense from a physics perspective as the force of the powder burning is over a significantly larger area with a .45 than a .42 (44 is named after an earlier convention of heeled bullets and is not actually .44). How much more power depends on precise loading, but at the same pressure and with a similar bullet weight, .45 Colt is MUCH more powerful. .454 Casull is a much higher pressure cartridge than either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, as it isn't just the increased powder capacity that makes the 454 a great deal more powerful than 44 or 45.


This is complete fallacy. The area of the bullet base on a 45 projectile is larger than a 44 of course, but its not a huge difference. Do the math, force = pressure times area. We are talking approximately 3.2k psi more for a 44 Mag to reach 45 Colt velocity, using the same weight bullet.

[downzero]

This is complete fallacy. The area of the bullet base on a 45 projectile is larger than a 44 of course, but its not a huge difference. Do the math, force = pressure times area. We are talking approximately 3.2k psi more for a 44 Mag to reach 45 Colt velocity, using the same weight bullet.

I don't know where you learned the word "fallacy," but there is nothing fallacious about my statement. It is a statement of absolute physical fact. You may not think it's a "huge" difference (but that is a matter of opinion that is pointless to debate other than to say I don't agree), but given the choice of some or more, I chose more. And there isn't the ability to raise the pressure because the pressure limits are a given constant. It's not as if I can turn a 9mm Luger into a 38 Super safely by simply loading another "3.2k psi." The statement might be literally true, but 9mm Luger stops at 35,000 PSI regardless of what gun you're shooting it in, so some hypothetical that violates every rule of handloading (e.g., to never exceed the pressure limit for the cartridge) is a meaningless discussion, even if literally true.

The question asked is why someone would chose a 45 Colt over a 44 Magnum, and I gave my reason. The same gun is available in both chamberings, so you can choose whatever you prefer.

I see the 44 Magnum as an advantage if you have to be able to purchase factory ammunition, because factory Ruger Only ammunition is rare and there's maybe only one store in my area that carries it, whereas everywhere that sells ammunition can sell you full power 44 Magnum. But I don't shoot factory ammo so that offered zero benefit to me. And otherwise there is no advantage to shooting a .42 over a .45 at the same things; both cartridges will make very similar holes in whatever you shoot them at.

[376Steyr]

Numerous years ago I was approached by a younger colleague at work. He said he was going to go fishing in Alaska, and wanted my advice on what handgun he should carry in the event of a bear attack. I thought for a moment or two, considered what I knew of his marksmanship, and pronounced, "What you need is a .357 Magnum with a four-inch barrel."
He gave me a surprised look, and asked, "Isn't a .357 Magnum a little light for shooting bears?"
I laughed, "Oh, no! It's not for the bear. It's for you, when you get tired of the bear chewing on you!"
He immediately got mad and stomped off. I'm happy to report he did eventually go fishing in Alaska, and was not eaten by bears.

But wait! What if the OP is attacked by two bears at once? As always, Elmer Keith has the answer:
289383

[memtb]

Perhaps we should look at the % increase of diameter, rather than just caliber. Going from .429” to .452” is approximately a .051 % greater area. Going from a .300WM to a .338 WM is approximately the same % increase in diameter. No one, or virtually no one would say the effectiveness of the 2 are almost identical. Yes, increased velocity differences will improve the lethality of the smaller diameter bullet.... but, only marginally! IMO For those that rely/believe in energy values.....the increased velocity may help the ft/lbs energy, but somewhat marginally at handgun velocities! I think the greater diameter bullet at typical handgun velocity trumps the energy differences! JMO

[Idaho45guy]

I want a pistol in .45 colt because my other camping gun is a Henry X in .45 colt. I'd like both guns to share the same hard hitting ammo.

[Idaho45guy]

How many shots does one get in the average (if there is such a thing) bear encounter? How much time does one have to aim and shoot?

I have never seen a live bear so I have no frame of reference. If you are looking at a situation where you are going to get 1 or possibly 2 shots max. Does DA vs. SA make a difference? I don't know. Just asking.
Bears are the least scariest predator in my woods. Cougars and wolves are much stealthier. Look up cougar attacks and how they attack humans. There is no getting off a first or second shot. It's about being able to pull a gun out and press it into the animal and having it fire while 200 lbs of fury are chewing on your neck .
Might be impossible to use your thumb to pull that hammer back no matter how much one practices quick draw fantasy cowboy crap

[Thumbcocker]

Bears are the least scariest predator in my woods. Cougars and wolves are much stealthier. Look up cougar attacks and how they attack humans. There is no getting off a first or second shot. It's about being able to pull a gun out and press it into the animal and having it fire while 200 lbs of fury are chewing on your neck .
Might be impossible to use your thumb to pull that hammer back no matter how much one practices quick draw fantasy cowboy crap

It always comes down to sarcasm and insults with you; doesn't it. I, along with the vast majority of folks on this forum, try to be courteous and polite in sharing knowledge. Perhaps you could step off of your high pedestal of knowledge of gunfighting bears and show me where in my post I mentioned "Quickdraw fantasy cowboy crap".

I asked a legitimate question due to a lack of knowledge on my part. You just had to go for the middle school snark. Are you even capable of basic social skills? Polite conversation? A free exchange of knowledge among adults?

I have to say that based on your posts that I have read the answer is not hardly.

Thus forum is made up of individuals with widely divergent life experiences, views, biases, and opinions. Threads are virtually always polite and informative. Why do you feel compelled to Wizz in the punch bowl?

[Idaho45guy]

It always comes down to sarcasm and insults with you; doesn't it. I, along with the vast majority of folks on this forum, try to be courteous and polite in sharing knowledge. Perhaps you could step off of your high pedestal of knowledge of gunfighting bears and show me where in my post I mentioned "Quickdraw fantasy cowboy crap".

I asked a legitimate question due to a lack of knowledge on my part. You just had to go for the middle school snark. Are you even capable of basic social skills? Polite conversation? A free exchange of knowledge among adults?

I have to say that based on your posts that I have read the answer is not hardly.

Thus forum is made up of individuals with widely divergent life experiences, views, biases, and opinions. Threads are virtually always polite and informative. Why do you feel compelled to Wizz in the punch bowl?

I'm sorry you took it that way. I was not trying to be snarky or attack or belittle you. I thought your question had merit and was honest. I answered with the reality of large predator attacks on humans.

Practicing quick draw cowboy-action drills with a single-action has almost no practical use when deep in the brush. Sorry if that offends you.

I didn't mean to be insulting or snarky and in no way insulted you personally, but your response was clearly meant to be personally insulting, attacking, and derogatory.

Yet you accuse me of the one being less than civil. Ironic.

[downzero]

I actually considered buying the single action model you already have. And I'd still like to have one! But I also agree and would probably carry my Redhawk for the reasons you outline.

And if there are only black bears, I carry a 357 Magnum...but not for the snarky reason addressed above. I just like it and 357 Magnum has plenty of power for most things that need shooting. It isn't a 300 grain bullet at 1200-1300 FPS though.

[Idaho45guy]

I will try much harder to remove sarcasm and snark from my responses. I am a really nice and humble guy in real life, which I believe comes across in my videos, but my writing style is indeed sarcastic and does not come across well.

[StrawHat]

I like my revolvers to be chambered for handgun cartridges and my rifles to be chambered for rifle cartridges. I see no need for a rifle chambered for a handgun cartridge.

I hunted for years with a S&W Model 25-5 and launched a 260 grain bullet at about 900 fps. This load, whether powered by Unique of black powder gave complete pass through on white tailed deer from any angle.

Likewise, for more years than I can remember, I have carried some form of S&W 45 ACP revolver for self defense. The older ones, pre model numbers get carried with hardball equivalent loads, usually a 235 grain full wadcutter over a hard ball dose of powder. The newer ones usually get the same loads BUT can easily handle the 45 Super and some gunsmiths are comfortable stepping them up to 460 Rowland.

If the N frame can handle the 45 Super and the 460 Rowland, it should be handle the same pressures from the 45 long Colt.

Kevin

[megasupermagnum]

Perhaps we should look at the % increase of diameter, rather than just caliber. Going from .429” to .452” is approximately a .051 % greater area. Going from a .300WM to a .338 WM is approximately the same % increase in diameter. No one, or virtually no one would say the effectiveness of the 2 are almost identical. Yes, increased velocity differences will improve the lethality of the smaller diameter bullet.... but, only marginally! IMO For those that rely/believe in energy values.....the increased velocity may help the ft/lbs energy, but somewhat marginally at handgun velocities! I think the greater diameter bullet at typical handgun velocity trumps the energy differences! JMO

This is the most ridiculous argument I ever heard for the .022" difference between a 45 colt and 44 magnum. There's differences between 300 win mag and 338 win mag, but you will NEVER see it on an animal. They are different names for the same thing, same as 308 Winchester and 7mm-08 are identical in effectiveness.

[memtb]

This is the most ridiculous argument I ever heard for the .022" difference between a 45 colt and 44 magnum. There's differences between 300 win mag and 338 win mag, but you will NEVER see it on an animal. They are different names for the same thing, same as 308 Winchester and 7mm-08 are identical in effectiveness.

I respectfully disagree with your comment! As an example there’s a reason that the .338 WM is much highly regarded, and more readily seen by guides in Alaska where that difference, though small, may be very important!

So, to attempt to follow-up on the rational of your hypothesis. The .308 and 7mm-08 are the same, meaning that the 7mm-08 and the 260 Rem are the same, meaning that the 260 Rem and the .243 Win are the same.....which brings us to the .308 Win and the .243 Win. being the same! You must’ve been a hoot in math class! Thanks.....you’ve made me smile! memtb

["Spoon"]

I sure like the Ruger Redhawk 5032 . It’s 45 colt and can shoot .45 acp with moon clips. It has a compromise barrel at just over 4 inches. I carry hot 45 colt in the gun and reloads in moon clips (.45 acp). I sure didn’t pay $1000 for it. It took me a couple of years to locate one. Super happy with mine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Piedmont]

Perhaps we should look at the % increase of diameter, rather than just caliber. Going from .429” to .452” is approximately a .051 % greater area.
Your math is way off. You list the difference as about 1/20th of one percent. You also first say increase of diameter and then say "greater area". There is a formula for the area of a circle and I don't remember how to do it, but the jump in diameter is only part of the difference, the increase in area makes it much larger.
The jump in diameter from .429" to .452" is 5.36%, but that is not the area. The % increase in area will be substantially larger than that.

[megasupermagnum]

I respectfully disagree with your comment! As an example there’s a reason that the .338 WM is much highly regarded, and more readily seen by guides in Alaska where that difference, though small, may be very important!

So, to attempt to follow-up on the rational of your hypothesis. The .308 and 7mm-08 are the same, meaning that the 7mm-08 and the 260 Rem are the same, meaning that the 260 Rem and the .243 Win are the same.....which brings us to the .308 Win and the .243 Win. being the same! You must’ve been a hoot in math class! Thanks.....you’ve made me smile! memtb

The difference being you are comparing a 300 win mag, shooting 180 to 220 grain bullets, and a 338 win mag shooting 200 to 250 grain bullets. Ex. 300WM 200gr @ 2800fps compared to 338WM 225 gr @ 2700 fps. Not that huge a difference, and the velocities are nearly identical. Same thing with 7mm-08 and 308 win, bullets fairly close, and pretty much the same speed . 243 Winchester, you are shooting bullets half the weight of a 308. Ex. 308 win 165gr @ 2700 fps compared to 7mm-08 160gr @ 2600 fps. Then go to 243 win 80gr @ 3100 fps.

Now if you are really going to tell me that a person can look at a dead animal shot with both a 30 caliber 200gr @ 2800 fps, and a 338 caliber 225gr @2700 fps, and you can tell the difference, well then I bow you your experience. Now then reverse the roles, the larger caliber being slower, a 44 caliber 310 grain at 1250 fps (regular old data straight from Lyman manual, chronographed from my 5.5" Redhawk), compared to a 45 caliber 305 grain at 1150 fps (the very hottest H110 Ruger only load data I could find for 45 colt). Yeah. No. It isn't happening my man just because the colt is .021" bigger. :popcorn:

[JimB..]

Your math is way off. You list the difference as about 1/20th of one percent. You also first say increase of diameter and then say "greater area". There is a formula for the area of a circle and I don't remember how to do it, but the jump in diameter is only part of the difference, the increase in area makes it much larger.
The jump in diameter from .429" to .452" is 5.36%, but that is not the area. The % increase in area will be substantially larger than that.

Area of a circle is pi (3.1415) times the square of the radius.

[Stick_man]

Getting back to the OP's original question... Which revolver do you like or would you recommend in .45 Colt? IF you can find one (and yes, that is a very big IF), I would strongly recommend you at least consider the Dan Wesson revolvers. One big advantage to them that I see is their interchangeable barrels. Some situations would dictate your barrel length of choice would be 4" or less. Other situations, like hunting deer or other critters that are much less likely to chew on you that a bear is, perhaps a 6" or 8" barrel would be a better choice. One revolver, multiple barrels. The DW revolvers are also very capable of handling a heavy diet of "Ruger only loads" and are happy to deal with them. They are also known throughout the sillywett (ya, i know, spelling) shooter ranks as some of the most accurate revolvers made.

I picked up a stainess .44 a few years ago with 2 barrels and a gun rug for $600. That was mid-2012. The .45 cal DWs are much less common than the .44s, but I am 100% certain they are every bit as capable and enjoyable to shoot as the rest of the DW family are.

[M-Tecs]

My favorite double action are the Smith 25's by far but they are not as robust as some so pressures need to be kept down. If I was going with one of the more robust guns I would skip the 45 Colt chambering and go with a 454 Casull.

[black mamba]

Going from .410 to .430 to .452 to .475 gains you about 10% more frontal area of the projectile with each jump in caliber. Because at handgun velocities you get virtually NO "shock" value, the size and weight of the bullet is the main factor in killing power. Larger frontal area means larger wound channel, and heavier bullets penetrate deeper and break larger bones. The saying is true, "There is no replacement for displacement." Having done the math, the difference in actual power between any two adjacent calibers is small. Jumping two calibers gets you some additional real world killing power. I doubt any big game animal could tell the difference between getting shot with a 44 mag or a "Ruger Only" loaded 45 Colt, but the 44 would be a lot easier to feed, and can also come in a smaller package, easier to tote. A Smith model 69 4" would be my choice, but in a 45 Colt you could go with a S&W model 25-7 or newer, as it has the strengthening mods and tighter throats. With the right powders, 280 gr. bullets at 1,000 fps are doable at acceptable pressure (<23 kpsi). If you want still more, then a 4" Redhawk is your answer. You can get 300s at 1,300 with it.

[memtb]

Your math is way off. You list the difference as about 1/20th of one percent. You also first say increase of diameter and then say "greater area". There is a formula for the area of a circle and I don't remember how to do it, but the jump in diameter is only part of the difference, the increase in area makes it much larger.
The jump in diameter from .429" to .452" is 5.36%, but that is not the area. The % increase in area will be substantially larger than that.

Thanks, very poor wording when I inadvertently changed from diameter to area, which was unintentional.....plus, I failed to properly place the decimal point. Our diameter numbers are similar .....as I rounded off, and I divided 0.429 by 0.452 which may have been a mistake. memtb

[44MAG#1]

Diameter squared times .7854 equals area of circle.

[DocSavage]

I've had several revolvers in 45 Colt and have used both smokeless and black powder substitutes a 250gr bullet under a full charge of Pyrodex was 1000 fps on my chrono and wasn't that bad in the recoil dept. I'm not a hunter but a 250-260 gr bullet at a 1000 fps in nothing to sneeze at.
Except for lager game elk,larger bear species 45 Colt should work nicely.

[memtb]

Quote: Now if you are really going to tell me that a person can look at a dead animal shot with both a 30 caliber 200gr @ 2800 fps, and a 338 caliber 225gr @2700 fps, and you can tell the difference, well then I bow you your experience.

You are quite correct! When an animal already dead.....it would very difficult to ascertain the difference between the two cartridges! However, on a large live animal, there “may” be a noticeable difference! There is a reason that people that want large, potentially dangerous animals stopped quickly.....they generally op for a larger caliber.

I must assume that your velocity numbers for the 225 grain bullet from a .338 WM was impact velocity....as we’re running 2950 fps mv from my wife’s .338 WM! memtb

[contender1]

" I doubt any big game animal could tell the difference between getting shot with a 44 mag or a "Ruger Only" loaded 45 Colt, but the 44 would be a lot easier to feed, and can also come in a smaller package, easier to tote."

NOT to start any further arguments,, this comment made me chuckle. I know black mamba was considering most North America big game. But just last night, I was discussing a big game hunt a member here, (sixshot) just took to Africa. He took his game with (2) different handguns. One was in .45 Colt. (The other being a .41 Mag.) And the load & level of quick killing power impressed all the PH's he had with him. And one of his "big game" was a large Cape Buffalo. He hit it once, it went down, immediately, and managed to get back up, turned quartering away, and he hit it again and it went down DRT. His PH was VERY impressed,,, but made the comment; "Many a person has been killed by a "dead" cape. Put a finishing shot in the spine. he did,,, but it wasn't necessary. That PH was also the owner of the Safari outfit. He requested a cast bullet (LBT) as a souvenir. BTW; That safari group had never had dedicated handgun hunters there before. All the PH's were a bit apprehensive at first. AND,,, other hunters in camp were using various rifles,, and having to shoot many of their game 3,4,5 & sometimes more to make a kill,,, AFTER following wounded game.

Point being,, the .45 Colt is a VERY effective caliber on all big game, and that was the subject of the OP to begin with. And the OP already wants to use .45 Colt because he already has a rifle chambered in it. The .44 Mag,, while quite capable,, MAY not be quite as good when loaded with comparable ammo. And yes,,I do know that many truly big game & dangerous game has been taken with the .44 Mag. But the OP wants a .45 Colt.

We shouldn't try & change his mind.

[memtb]

" I doubt any big game animal could tell the difference between getting shot with a 44 mag or a "Ruger Only" loaded 45 Colt, but the 44 would be a lot easier to feed, and can also come in a smaller package, easier to tote."

NOT to start any further arguments,, this comment made me chuckle. I know black mamba was considering most North America big game. But just last night, I was discussing a big game hunt a member here, (sixshot) just took to Africa. He took his game with (2) different handguns. One was in .45 Colt. (The other being a .41 Mag.) And the load & level of quick killing power impressed all the PH's he had with him. And one of his "big game" was a large Cape Buffalo. He hit it once, it went down, immediately, and managed to get back up, turned quartering away, and he hit it again and it went down DRT. His PH was VERY impressed,,, but made the comment; "Many a person has been killed by a "dead" cape. Put a finishing shot in the spine. he did,,, but it wasn't necessary. That PH was also the owner of the Safari outfit. He requested a cast bullet (LBT) as a souvenir. BTW; That safari group had never had dedicated handgun hunters there before. All the PH's were a bit apprehensive at first. AND,,, other hunters in camp were using various rifles,, and having to shoot many of their game 3,4,5 & sometimes more to make a kill,,, AFTER following wounded game.

Point being,, the .45 Colt is a VERY effective caliber on all big game, and that was the subject of the OP to begin with. And the OP already wants to use .45 Colt because he already has a rifle chambered in it. The .44 Mag,, while quite capable,, MAY not be quite as good when loaded with comparable ammo. And yes,,I do know that many truly big game & dangerous game has been taken with the .44 Mag. But the OP wants a .45 Colt.

We shouldn't try & change his mind.

:2_high5: People that hunt large big game “generally” choose a larger diameter bullet.....especially when handgun hunting! memtb

[Three44s]

First off I am a confirmed 44 shooter, but even I recognize the advantage of the .45 LC in a revolver built for magnum pressure.

I also recognize that the OP is invested in 45, not 44 and that matters.

I own a very nice DW in 41 Mag and it is a tank and you can readily change barrels ....... if you can find one. Same thing applies even more so for the revolver itself.

In a DA revolver there are just two revolvers that stand out today that are reasonably available in 45 and that is the Redhawk and the SRH in 454.

If you want the ultimate in a .45 bore I would see about getting the .454 in a SRH and load it however you want within its construction. The .45 in a Redhawk will be very adequate as well but no .454 option or any downloads of .454 splitting the difference with the 45 ++ loads the Redhawk can handle.

Personally I traded my SRH in .44 for a SRH in .480 Ruger but that is another topic for another day.

Three44s

[murf205]

I've owned 2 Redhawks and a SRH and a 25-5. Carrying the SRH will let you feel the weight pretty quickly. PERSONALLY...I wouldnt feed my 25-5 a steady dose of heavy loads, although they are stronger than a lot of people would have you think. Get the 4" RH and be a happy camper. It will stand up to what you are wanting to do. My 2 cents.
Murf

[9.3X62AL]

Having had to face down an actual bear in a berry patch in Summer 2002 with a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Magnum, I gotta say--that big ol' boat anchor did not feel heavy or cumbersome at the time. Quite the contrary, actually--it seemed like awfully light tackle to play this particular quarry with. The bear did not commence hostilities, so I didn't either--but since that time we bring a RIFLE along on our berry-picking jaunts in the local mountains--a 30/30 or 38/55 levergun, most often.

Yes, they are just black bears--not the outsized bruins that live farther north. But our black bears descend from pest bear stock transported from CA's national parks into the local forests (San Bernardino NF) from the late 1940s well into the 1980s. They are a PITA to mountain residents and visitors, and have little fear of humans. What those bears REALLY need is a couple alibi rounds launched across their bows, but I digress.

[murf205]

Having had to face down an actual bear in a berry patch in Summer 2002 with a Ruger Redhawk in 44 Magnum, I gotta say--that big ol' boat anchor did not feel heavy or cumbersome at the time. Quite the contrary, actually--it seemed like awfully light tackle to play this particular quarry with. The bear did not commence hostilities, so I didn't either--but since that time we bring a RIFLE along on our berry-picking jaunts in the local mountains--a 30/30 or 38/55 levergun, most often.

Yes, they are just black bears--not the outsized bruins that live farther north. But our black bears descend from pest bear stock transported from CA's national parks into the local forests (San Bernardino NF) from the late 1940s well into the 1980s. They are a PITA to mountain residents and visitors, and have little fear of humans. What those bears REALLY need is a couple alibi rounds launched across their bows, but I digress.

I didn't find the RedHawk uncomfortable to pack but the SRH is quite heavy to me but that's just me. Both will handle anything that the OP throws at it within reason. As far as them being ugly as some say, they must not be too ugly or they would be plentiful and cheap. You are spot on about black bears and rifles. It has been said a jillion times; you use a pistol to fight your way to get to a rifle. My friend on the Kenai carries an M1 Garand when he is out on a walkabout. Talk about heavy!

[Stick_man]

I see several recommendations to go with a 4" barrel. If you are considering taking that route, please make sure to check your state regulations for restrictions on barrel lengths. In some states, the minimum legal barrel length for a handgun is 6". You don't want to go buying a new handgun to carry with you while hunting, only to find out the barrel is too short to be legal. Good luck in your decision and keep us posted. Remember though, without pics it didn't happen or ain't real. One never tires of pics of guns.

[Lloyd Smale]

45 Colt out of the right gun has significantly more power than 44 Magnum, which makes sense from a physics perspective as the force of the powder burning is over a significantly larger area with a .45 than a .42 (44 is named after an earlier convention of heeled bullets and is not actually .44). How much more power depends on precise loading, but at the same pressure and with a similar bullet weight, .45 Colt is MUCH more powerful. .454 Casull is a much higher pressure cartridge than either 44 Magnum or 45 Colt, so it's not an apples to apples comparison, as it isn't just the increased powder capacity that makes the 454 a great deal more powerful than 44 or 45.

Either one of them will do the same job anyway, but don't discount 45 Colt out of the right gun. If you want to shoot a S&W or you already have a lever gun in 44 Magnum, it's the clear choice. But if you're starting from scratch and can shoot either, 45 Colt is just as good a choice as any. In fact, with the new Redhawk also shooting .45 ACP, it's almost a no brainer for me.

with that train of thought you could throw in a super redhawk 44 mag. Taffin had loads for that stout gun that ran on the tails of 454 loads. In about any platform the 44 will handle higher pressure because theres just more meat in the cylinder. I had loads for my 44mag bisley that pushed a 340 to 1225. I doubt your going to do any better with a 45 colt. Same loads would easily be digested in FA or redhawk 44 too and even more in the super redhawk. Seems everyone thinks its ok to stand on the 45 colt but God forbid you do the same to the 44 mag. Fact is max loads today in the loading manuals can be improved on in a good 44 mag too.

what i see is the same thing that happened with the 270. When it came out you werent cool unless you claimed your 270 was hands down better then a good old fashion 06 that only your grandpa would use. Then came the big frame ruger 45 colts and you werent cool unless you had one and loaded it with 300s. Only your grandpa would use the 44mag. It just wasnt cool anymore. Well come to find out your grandpa wasnt wrong after all. The o6 does anything a 270 will do and more. It IS THE RIFLEMANS RIFLE. No flash or cheerleaders but it just plain works. Same thing as the 44. How many times have you heard i can get 44 mag power out of my 45 colt. Yup you can but youll have harder problems finding brass.

You need to watch what guns you put it in. Now im going to admit a stupid mistake i made. I have proably a dozen 45s at any time. I was out with my small frame ruger montado one day shooting steel when one round went off and imediately i knew what happened. One of my heavy bullet stout 45 colt loads for my big frame guns somehow got tossed in that coffee can with the lighter loads. Dumb? YOU BET. But when you measure your shooting in thousands of rounds vs a box of 50 a month things happen. Lucky for me it just bulged that hole in the cylinder. Made the cylinder useless but at least it didnt kill me or blind me. I called ruger and told them exactly what had happened and they were went above and beyond and told me to send it in and theyd fit a new cyl. They went a step above that and two weeks later a brand new gun was shipped to me.

Might be just my luck but ive found over the years 44 mags were just easier to work loads up the 45colts. probably because theres standard specs for them. Not often you have to do thinks like open up the throats ect. About any 44 mag will shoot with a 430 cast bullet. Not the 45 colt some even have throats that arent tight but way oversized and need bigger bullets.

I know this is kind of off topic and dont get me wrong. I like my 45 colts. Of all my DA big bores its about a toss up on which i carry the most. My 4 inch 29 smith or my 4in 25. But favorite pistol caliber? Hands down the good old 44 mag.

[rintinglen]

For 45 Colt?

My two cents: I'd take a Redhawk, if I was going to load it up. For where I live,(Nothing bigger than black bears) I'd go with S&W Mountain Gun, if I could find one for less than the price of a used car. Not much you can't handle with a 250 grain boolit at 1,000 fps.

But I have to say that the only time I was ever in Grizzly territory--Idaho,1980, I carried a 6" 357, because that was the biggest gun I had then. I was there fishing with my friend Wayne who carried a 44 mag Ruger Super Blackhawk. I killed as many bears as they did of me.

[murf205]

45 guy, I see that you are getting a lot of advice on what gun, what caliber and if this thread last long enough, I'm sure that you will get advice on having your brakes relined as well, so let me add 1 thing. I believe(for what that is worth) that boolit type and nose design is about as important as anything discussed so far. The meplat that has big sharp shoulders like a Keith swc tend to "get a bite" so to speak when encountering thick hide and bone, which is, I believe again, the reason they penetrate straight which is important if some critter is bent on making a snack out of you. RN booits just don't get that traction that the swc's do, although (here we go again) I believe they center up in the forcing cone of a revolver very well enhancing accuracy. My 2 cents worth, I'm up to 4 cents now!

[KMac]

I picked up a RH 4" 45 Colt the other day in like new condition for $950 so they are out there in your price range. Found a Guides Choice chest holster in unused condition that fits a 4 inch RH for $100. So it is popular enough to find holsters for it. The Guides Choice also perfectly fits my S&W 25-5 4". Which is a bonus. I have never hunted with either one so I can't give you advice on which one to get. But the S&W feels much lighter than the Ruger. So I was curious how much heavier the Ruger was. The S&W weighs 2.9 lbs loaded. And the Ruger weighs 3.2 lbs loaded. Not near as much difference as I would have guessed. The S&W feels better in my hand and in my opinion is better balanced. Which is probably why is feels so much lighter. I think a lot of the weight difference is in the cylinder when comparing the two.

[downzero]

I picked up a RH 4" 45 Colt the other day in like new condition for $950 so they are out there in your price range. Found a Guides Choice chest holster in unused condition that fits a 4 inch RH for $100. So it is popular enough to find holsters for it. The Guides Choice also perfectly fits my S&W 25-5 4". Which is a bonus. I have never hunted with either one so I can't give you advice on which one to get. But the S&W feels much lighter than the Ruger. So I was curious how much heavier the Ruger was. The S&W weighs 2.9 lbs loaded. And the Ruger weighs 3.2 lbs loaded. Not near as much difference as I would have guessed. The S&W feels better in my hand and in my opinion is better balanced. Which is probably why is feels so much lighter. I think a lot of the weight difference is in the cylinder when comparing the two.

Yep! That's the best secret in revolvers! My 28-2 also fits in my Redhawk holsters.

[Outpost75]

Have enjoyed reading this thread, but I have remained old school. My favorites are a 1920 Colt New Service 5-1/2" and a S&W M1917 rebuilt by John Taylor with a Brazilian INA manufacture replacement barrel and an S&W Model 29 cylinder line bored and rechambered to .45 Colt. I have standardized on 7.5 grains of Bullseye and Accurate 45-264H wide flatnosed at about 900 fps. Works for me.

289632289633289634

[murf205]

This is the way I carry my 9.5" SRH. It rides under my left armpit with the barrel up my back. Believe it or not, when I am wearing a jacket it is unnoticeable. However, unlike Idaho45 guy, I don't have bears or cougars where I live so a quick draw is not needed. Of course the 9 1/2" barrel is not what you would consider for quick action but it makes this gun easy to shoot.289537289538

[glaciers]

Well I have to agree with Out Post on the old school thought, as that kind of load will take care of business most places.

I’ve been a 44 Mag and SPL fan since I picked my first Ruger Flat top in the mid 60’s. Still have that one which has been followed by 2 of my favorites a 4” model 29 and a 4” 69. Quit a few Smiths and Rugers in between.

Never got into the long colt, just didn’t happen. But I started a charter fishing business in Prince William Sound about 3 weeks before the Exxon Valdez struck Bligh Reef. The oil went south west so we went fishing south east.

But we started also taking people to shore for day hiking and exploring on or multi day trips. Big bears. Kodiak has bears of the same size, but PWS doesn’t have quite as many fortunately, but enough to make you cautious.

I started out carrying a 12 gage with slugs and my 4” Smith stuffed with hot J D Jones SSK 320’s. I really felt the 12 gage was inadequate and started carrying a 458x2 American with 400 grain Barnes Originals. Much better, but it always was that the rifle was in the skiff or leaning against a tree over there 20 to 100 feet away. So I felt I needed more handgun or a shorter lighter powerful rifle that would be handy on my shoulder. But a handgun was more practical.

I tried the 454 Casull but found it very difficult to control and recover for a second shot. It wasn’t a lot of improvement of the 44 Mag with 320’s cruising along between 1100 and 1200 fps. The 4” Smith was much smaller and lighter then the SRH. The 45 colt came to mind, but the SRH was to massive for zero gain over the Smith. Yes the very heavy loads will batter my Smith, but, I’m still shooting it but mostly more friendly loads as there’s only moose that might stomp you on the path to the shop and a occasional summertime black bear. Extremely rare for inland grizzlies in this neck of the woods. The Smith 25 was considered but not for the powerful loads I felt I needed. Single action was not a consideration.

But then Ruger in all there wisdom came out with the 480 in I think 2003. I picked one up used at a show for a fair price shortly after that. I had been reading up on these larger calibers and since I had graduated form the hyper velocity stuff in rifles years before I wasn’t interested in hyper velocity in a handgun. I had read some of John Linebaugh’s stuff on velocity, mass penetration. Made since. The 480 with a 410 cast at 1100 to 1200 fps would out penetrate the 454 with 360’s at 1500 fps. Not by much but when you add the more controllability of the 480 cartridge, I’d found what I wanted.

Ok, ok, the 480 comes in the SRH. yes but I had the barrel bobbed to 5” and gave it a good try. Recoil was certainly stout but not much more the the Smith with 320’s. More a push then a snap which equates to better control. Yea I know there’s some of you macho guys out there, bigger and badder then me, but I got over having to have the big bad 454, 460 or 500 Smith x frames just so I could say that I use one and the wheels for it are over there somewhere. The 5” 480 SRH in a chest rig as the hip holster was not a good way to go getting in and out of boats and skiffs. No pistol will float.

But I find the old 357 that was advertised as being able to blow a hole through a engine block would do most the work in most parts of the country. I carry a SP101 3” stoked with hot 180’s in my back pocket around here, because, and this is important, it’s always with me and handy. A bigger gun when your doing firewood or other chores around the homestead would be a pain.

Back to the true point of beginning. The 45 colt would be a great and is, but in a rig that is sized to be at hand conveniently when your thinking of critters. I’ve never dealt with cats but having something fast to hand and I’m all in for double action. I know a fair amount about bears, mainly black bears. You poke one in the skull with a 357, 44 mag, or 45LC and you will have a good day. Which reminds me of a friend of mine.

Well Bob lives out aways and loved to put his 3 black bears in the freezer every year. Bob has a big herd of kids and his freezers (multiple freezers) had moose, bear, salmon and when he could get it halibut. Bob kept he’s freezers full except for seasonal depletion. Bob always hunted with a 44 mag 6” Smith. That’s his bear gun, period. He used 86 Winchesters in 45-90 and a nice 40-82 moose. Nets for salmon and trading for halibut.

Anyway I ran into Bob in his shop when it was opened back up(closed a lot for hunting and fishing) and he looked a little white around the gills. Turns out he had killed a bear that morning, which was not unusual for him. I suspected he had more bear meat in his freezers then the allowed 3. So I had to ask if he was well and he related a very short story to me. Now keeping in mind Bob killed a lot of bears and always used his 44. One or 2 shots and clean up and let the kids and wife package it. No problem. Bears aren’t that hard to kill. But, this time he had a slightly different experience. And Bob admitted right off that he had screwed up and he was in some though brush not expecting to run into a bear in that area. The first shot wasn’t good. By the time the bears head dropped on his boot, literally, the trusty 44 was empty. Spooked him a bit.

But point is as others have pointed out, if you don’t place the shot right, well, you might not have a good day. Shoot a grizzly in the paw with a 416, 458 and your much better off with a 30-30 round in the boiler room.

A heavy slug in any pistol caliber, hot 180’s in 357 to 300 plus in a 44 or 45 at moderate velocity will do the job as long as it’s a good bullet. So if your set on 45LC for what ever reason, just get the pistol that fits you right. But you already know this.

Lately I’ve started to play with a 625 45ACP model 1989 to go with my newer Smith 1950 45ACP. I’m interested in heavy Bullets in these revolvers. I have a 265 NOE very similar to the 264 Accurate bullet Out Post posted. But the one that has my interest is also a NOE bullet. 318 grains with my mix. The 452-304 by NOE caught my eye when I was looking for the 290 which happened to be out of stock at the time. Can’t wait so I got the 304. So far I’m at a comfortable 730 fps with bulls eye. Going to try a little more as I’d like to come in around 800. Anyway 318 at 800 should be authoritative. I have a 230 RN HP and the 265 for gentle loads, but so far the 304 has been fun and I’m certain will work on anything drawing breath around here.

For the monster hand gun guys, have fun. My answer to those kinda hand cannons is a 45-70 Marlin cut down or my 458x2 in a 7 & 1/4,pound, 38” rebarreled Remington 600

[glaciers]

Bears are the least scariest predator in my woods. Cougars and wolves are much stealthier. Look up cougar attacks and how they attack humans. There is no getting off a first or second shot. It's about being able to pull a gun out and press it into the animal and having it fire while 200 lbs of fury are chewing on your neck .
Might be impossible to use your thumb to pull that hammer back no matter how much one practices quick draw fantasy cowboy crap

Okay I’m going to make a suggestion based on this posting. I have a Smith 1950 (new model 22-4) in 45ACP. Yeah I know it’s not a LC, but if you could find one in long colt, yes different model, not sure Smith makes it. But, size wise it’s a lot of horse power in a reasonable size.

289543

Top is a SRH 5” barrel 480, middle is the Smith 22-4 45 ACP, the bottom is a K frame Smith.

289544

In this picture the Smith 45 is top, a SP101 3” middle, and a J frame 2” bottom. The 3” and 2” I fit in my back pocket just fine. The 45 is a bit much, it’s a holster pistol. But is you could find a Long Colt like this…. Sweet. The weight of the Smith compared to the SRH is substantial.

289553

But this is the 452 304 NOE an an ACP loaded round at 730 fps. I’m going to bump up the Bulls Eye loading one more time with 800 as my goal. Also so 2400 loadings to reach 800 fps. The load COAL is 1.383 which is long but just fine in the six guns. Couple of moon clips and ready for a pride of lions.

Out Post I believe was in the neighborhood of 900 with a 265 or 290, can’t remember.

[glaciers]

Murf205
That is awesome way to carry a big six gun

[murf205]

Thanks, it leaves the hands free to climb tree stands or navigate the thick brush common to the southeast where I live.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

In doing "Bear Drills" at a gathering for a number of years I have observed a good number of things that I can share with you guys.

https://i.imgur.com/q1DynlK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6OT6nbv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8uBSJUP.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/j6Z0ZJy.jpg



Guys with the totally maxed out loads such as .500 whatevers, .454 Casull, even heaviest .45 Colt loads like 350s at 1400 in 5 shot guns more often than not fail. That is with all the other factors in their favor too. Not being surprised, having clean hands, starting at the low ready, etc. They still usually fail.

Guys shooting loads that will still fully penetrate a Grizzly bear skull, or to vital parts, and yet still be manageable for a competent shooter, using a double action gun such as a Model 25, Model 29 or Redhawk usually do OK. Loads such as 300 grain projectiles in the 1,000 -1150 FPS seem to be the sweet spot for guys to be able to recover from the recoil quick enough to get fast accurate hits, versus just making noise with their guns.

Lots of guys bow up and brag about their numbers, foot pounds of energy this, frontal area that, but the fact is, when you put them on a timer, and give them a series of staggered targets with a small kill zone, simulating a bear charging at you they completely fall apart. It humbles them quite quickly.

You cannot buy experience or skill from buffalo bore. That timer does not care either.



.41 .44 or .45 is of far less importance as is your ability to put multiple shots on target accurately per second.


With all that said, if my goal was to buy a gun purely for protection against bears I was set on a .45 Colt, and I was going to be doing a lot of hiking, I would look for a Model 25 or 625 Smith due to the fact it weighs less than the Ruger, as well as the fact it usually has a little better DA trigger out of the box. I would not be worried at all about shooting one loose.

[boatswainsmate]

PM sent

[Catshooter]

******, why doesn't this forum have a "Like" button? Excellent post Mackay! Bravo for reality!


Cat

[Mackay Sagebrush]

Since the snow came off the high country this year I have spent a BUNCH of time hiking in Griz and black bear country. Lots of trail time in central and western Montana. This last month I was north of Helena and staying at a place where the bears were THICK! Funny thing was I never saw a single one..

Every few hours they were letting us know they had been there. Often right outside the cabin door. Literally 25 feet from the door. I was packing a 1911 with 250 grain hard cast flat points that averaged a bit faster than 950FPS so I was pretty comfortable with my sidearm choice.

https://i.imgur.com/zu8TTlM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fKGWHLz.jpg

[Mackay Sagebrush]

Also brought a 10mm along with hardcast loads. The ability to attach a light to the gun at night was nice, especially since we seemed to have a couple of bears that were dumpster diving and pooping in the yard.

https://i.imgur.com/dGAzP3F.jpg

[StrawHat]

[QUOTE=Mackay Sagebrush;5272919… I was packing a 1911 with 250 grain hard cast flat points that averaged a bit faster than 950FPS so I was pretty comfortable with my sidearm choice…[/QUOTE]


My load for the S&W Model 25-2 is a 240 grain wadcutter at about 900 fps. Never tried it on bear but I would not be worried about it.

Kevin

[GooseGestapo]

I’m a bit late to this discussion but I feel I have valuable knowledge and experience to contribute.
Probably the best .45colt given OP’s desires is the Mod-25.
I “HAD” a Ruger REDHAWK 5” in .45. Yes, built like a tank! Weighs almost as much. I carried mine ONCE all day in a belt holster hunting deer and pigs from a boat. It’s a “crew served” weapon, in my opinion! But it was a tack driver! An over book load of #2400 under a Lee 310gr FNGC got 1,200fps and I once shot 5-touching at 25yds. Threw the sixth! Recoil was brutal.


I tried two different Ruger Black Hawks. A 4-5/8” convertible and a 5.5” New Model FlatTop. Both had bad cases of thread choke and were disappointing with either cast or jacketed.

I finally found the Smith Mod 25 Mountain Gun I wanted. It’s GREAT. My “Wyoming” load is the Lane Simpson load of 11.2gr of LongShot under the RCBS SAA 270gr Keith style SWC. I size them .454” and crimp well. Accurate and powerful enough to make the Wyoming power minimum.

Everywhere else I carry the Lee 255gr RFN at 9.5gr. It’ll still shoot long wise through our smallish deer. It’s enough! However, to purchase, it’s UNOBTANIUM”.

I’m leaving tomorrow going elk hunting in SW Utah with my brother. I’m carrying my Model 69 as they don’t have as many or as large of bears. I’ll have it loaded with 200gr RFN over 5.5gr of #231. Backed up with two speed loaders of 255gr Keith SWC over 20gr of #2400. I swap loads if bears are suspected around camp or cutting/packing out meat.
I carry it in the same SafariLand holster I carried my issue 686 circa 1996. It’s actually lighter than a .357 due to “bigger holes”.
I debated the G22 loaded to near 10mm w/175gr K-SWC but with 15rds, but weighs more than the M69.
A M69 can be had. Several currentLy on GB. ... Possession is 9/10’s!
The best gun for ANY purpose is the one you shoot well and actually have when you need it!

[Thumbcocker]

In doing "Bear Drills" at a gathering for a number of years I have observed a good number of things that I can share with you guys.

https://i.imgur.com/q1DynlK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6OT6nbv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8uBSJUP.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/j6Z0ZJy.jpg



Guys with the totally maxed out loads such as .500 whatevers, .454 Casull, even heaviest .45 Colt loads like 350s at 1400 in 5 shot guns more often than not fail. That is with all the other factors in their favor too. Not being surprised, having clean hands, starting at the low ready, etc. They still usually fail.

Guys shooting loads that will still fully penetrate a Grizzly bear skull, or to vital parts, and yet still be manageable for a competent shooter, using a double action gun such as a Model 25, Model 29 or Redhawk usually do OK. Loads such as 300 grain projectiles in the 1,000 -1150 FPS seem to be the sweet spot for guys to be able to recover from the recoil quick enough to get fast accurate hits, versus just making noise with their guns.

Lots of guys bow up and brag about their numbers, foot pounds of energy this, frontal area that, but the fact is, when you put them on a timer, and give them a series of staggered targets with a small kill zone, simulating a bear charging at you they completely fall apart. It humbles them quite quickly.

You cannot buy experience or skill from buffalo bore. That timer does not care either.



.41 .44 or .45 is of far less importance as is your ability to put multiple shots on target accurately per second.


With all that said, if my goal was to buy a gun purely for protection against bears I was set on a .45 Colt, and I was going to be doing a lot of hiking, I would look for a Model 25 or 625 Smith due to the fact it weighs less than the Ruger, as well as the fact it usually has a little better DA trigger out of the box. I would not be worried at all about shooting one loose.

So you are saying hits count more than foot pounds? Totally amazing.

[memtb]

So you are saying hits count more than foot pounds? Totally amazing.


While I’m not a believer in ft/lbs, especially at typical handgun velocities, I do believe that one well placed shot with an adequate projectile trumps a magazine full of “hope”! Yes, being proficient at getting multiple rounds on target is “priceless” even if well practiced relying on time for multiple shots is a fallacy....multiple shots on target is likely a fantasy!

I believe that history shows that there is a higher % of attacks by an inspired give little to no time for counter measures! With that in mind, I’ll risk getting off only one well placed shot....hopefully, I’m granted enough time for that “one” shot! JM (unchanging)O! ;) memtb

[murf205]

Since the snow came off the high country this year I have spent a BUNCH of time hiking in Griz and black bear country. Lots of trail time in central and western Montana. This last month I was north of Helena and staying at a place where the bears were THICK! Funny thing was I never saw a single one..

Every few hours they were letting us know they had been there. Often right outside the cabin door. Literally 25 feet from the door. I was packing a 1911 with 250 grain hard cast flat points that averaged a bit faster than 950FPS so I was pretty comfortable with my sidearm choice.

https://i.imgur.com/zu8TTlM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fKGWHLz.jpg

I have been amazed at how stealthly a huge bear can be. At my friends cabin in Ak, I had a cab over camper for a sleep quarters and our resident 9 footer would walk through the yard at night not 15' away from my bed and leave us the same calling card and never make a sound coming or going. Not even a poot! We couldn't complain though because that is/was a pretty good bear that never caused any problems other than a raid or 2 on the smoker. and the 2nd time it raided it we were sleeping and never heard the old thief!

[murf205]

289673289674
Here is one that stopped buy to say hi on the 4th of July this yr and share in the cookout.

[USSR]

Not a big believer in the kinetic energy calculation, since it does not take bullet diameter into consideration.

K.E. = \frac{1}{2} \times m \times v^2.
K.E. Kinetic Energy
m Mass of the object
v The velocity of the object

I find the Taylor knock-out formula which was developed and applied to African game rifles to be a much more useful tool.

TKOF ={{Weight times Velocity times Diameter} divided by {7000}}

Just MHO.

Don

[Thumbcocker]

While I’m not a believer in ft/lbs, especially at typical handgun velocities, I do believe that one well placed shot with an adequate projectile trumps a magazine full of “hope”! Yes, being proficient at getting multiple rounds on target is “priceless” even if well practiced relying on time for multiple shots is a fallacy....multiple shots on target is likely a fantasy!

I believe that history shows that there is a higher % of attacks by an inspired give little to no time for counter measures! With that in mind, I’ll risk getting off only one well placed shot....hopefully, I’m granted enough time for that “one” shot! JM (unchanging)O! ;) memtb

Kinda where I was going when I asked about the odds of getting off multiple shots in a critter encounter and if there would be an advantage for a D A vs. SA in that situation.

[Mackay Sagebrush]

While I’m not a believer in ft/lbs, especially at typical handgun velocities, I do believe that one well placed shot with an adequate projectile trumps a magazine full of “hope”! Yes, being proficient at getting multiple rounds on target is “priceless” even if well practiced relying on time for multiple shots is a fallacy....multiple shots on target is likely a fantasy!

I believe that history shows that there is a higher % of attacks by an inspired give little to no time for counter measures! With that in mind, I’ll risk getting off only one well placed shot....hopefully, I’m granted enough time for that “one” shot! JM (unchanging)O! ;) memtb

That theory does not bear out with the reality of actual bear attacks.

MOST bear attacks where guys use handguns are multiple shot affairs, not single shot ones according to information gathered, and multiple shots on target have saved more than a few guys from being killed.


Here is a link to information:

https://sportingclassicsdaily.com/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/

One Alaskan had a Grizzly charging straight at him and managed to save his life by firing numerous rounds from a 10MM Glock into the Grizzly as it was almost on top of him and he fell over backwards.




On 29 July, 2016, about 4 p.m. Kim Woodman was attacked by a sow brown bear at Humpy Creek.

Kim had a Glock model 20 10 mm pistol with him. He was able to stop the attack by shooting the bear as it charged at him. While backing away from the charging bear, Kim tripped and fell backward. He instinctively attempted to fend off the bear with his foot, while he concentrated on firing the shots that saved his life. The last shot was just short of contact. It probably hit the bear in the chest, but also took off the tip of one of Kim’s toes.





AK, Denali National Park: Backpacker Stops Grizzly attack with .45 pistol, May 28, 2010

A grizzly bear that emerged from a thicket and charged two backpackers in the backcountry of Denali National Park and Preserve was shot and killed by one of the two who was carrying a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol, according to park officials.

The killing Friday is believed to be the first instance of a hiker killing a grizzly in the park’s wilderness. The killing occurred in the original Mount McKinley National Park portion of the Denali, which was expanded by two-thirds in 1980.


I looked into that one. The hiker fire NINE rounds of .45 ACP at the attacking bear. They left and informed the Park service. Later Park Service employees found the bear dead approximately 100 feet from where the shooting took place in the bushes.





Here were the stats he collected:

There were twelve uses of .44 magnum revolvers. All were successful.

One was against a black bear, it was mortally wounded but finished off with shotgun slugs. Eleven were against grizzly bears. Two were driven of with “warning shots”. One was driven off, without evidence of being wounded. One was wounded and not recovered. One was wounded and finished off at the scene with a shotgun slug. Six were killed without further assistance.

There were four uses of .45 caliber pistols against bears. All were successful. One was against a black bear, which was killed with additional shots, probably from another handgun. The other three were grizzly bears killed with multiple hits from the .45 caliber pistols.

There was one use of a .45 Super pistol. It was successful. The grizzly bear was killed with one shot.

There was one use of a .454 Casull revolver. 4 or 5 shots were fired and the grizzly bear was finished off at the scene with a rifle brought by the defender’s wife.

There were three cases of pistol defenses against bears where the pistol caliber was not identified. One was a grizzly, which ran off. It was not determined if the bear was wounded or not. The other two were black bears that were killed with the pistol fire.

There was one case where both .357 magnum and .44 magnum revolvers were used. The grizzly bear was killed.

In total, there were 8 defenses against black bears and 27 defenses against grizzly bears.

One pistol failure out of 35 cases translates to a 97% success rate for the use of handguns against bears.

Successful bear defenses with a pistol are probably under-reported, much like successful firearm defenses against criminals. If a predatory black bear is shot and runs off, there are strong incentives for the shooter not to report the incident. Incidents, where no human is injured, are seldom considered news. This creates a strong selection bias against successful pistol defenses against bears.

Predatory black bear attacks are the most common fatal black bear attacks in North America. Only 8 of the pistol defenses listed above are defenses against black bears or 23%. It is reasonable to believe there should be about twice that number. Black bear predatory attacks often give potential victims good opportunities to use a pistol effectively.

I have two reported instances of successful bear defenses with a .38 special revolver. One against a black bear, and one against a grizzly. I have not been able to verify either. I have found two more reported cases of the successful use of the 10 mm pistol, and one more for the .357 magnum, but have not been able to verify them.



Based on that,

What YOU can actually make fast hits with matters. ,44 Magnum, or heavy hard cast loads in a .45 or 10MM. Evidence would indicate that actually making multiple fast hits is more important than getting a single shot off with an elephant load and hoping it is a perfect CNS bullseye.

Personally I carry double action .44 revolvers, .45 ACPs with heavy loads, and 10mms with heavy loads. I am completely comfortable with any of them. I do see an advantage however to the ease of shooting a semi auto such as a Glock 21 and a 250 grain hard cast flat point at 950+.

The fact is that I can run .18 splits very comfortably with the big gun, and I am never going to do that with an N Frame. I ran a G21 as a USPSA gun for years. Putting 5 rounds on target in one second is not too hard with practice. Again, that's not going to happen with a big N Frame or Redhawk, un less your name is Jerry Miculek.

https://i.imgur.com/0O7Ybfa.jpg

So having 13+1 of 250s at 950 is actually fairly potent medicine. or even 8+1 in a good 1911.

.45 caliber 250s at 950 FPS are nothing to sneeze at, and quite comparable to many .44 Special and old school .45 Colt offerings.

[M-Tecs]

Mackay Sagebrush great info and thanks for posting.

I post the link below whenever this subject comes out.

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/#axzz78NmF2nED

I do spend a fair about of time in the bush in Alaska helping a buddy that owns a bear and salmon guide service. Grizzly Bear sightings are a daily occurrence. Most of the time a rifle or shotgun is not practical.

I purchased a FN FNX 45 Tactical that I will mod. it to 460 Rowland. I can shoot 45ACP. 45 Super or 460 Rowland. The 460 Rowland in the FN gives me 15 rounds of mid level 44 Mag performance in a light very carriable/shootable package. https://www.460rowland.com/

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/#axzz78NmF2nED

[Catshooter]

MacKay,

Nice looking bullet. Which one is it please?


Cat

[Mackay Sagebrush]

It is the 250 grain round nose flat point from Rim Rock. It was actually a .45 Colt bullet, but the sized it down to .451 for autos and it is superb for its purpose.

[Thumbcocker]

Does that boolit shoot to sights?

[Mackay Sagebrush]

They do.

I also have adjustables of a couple of my guns, so fine tuning the particular load, no matter if it is a 200 grain H&G #68 SWC or this 250 grain RN FP is not really an issue.

[Outpost75]

Cadet company classmate of mine was Alaska Native and spent his career in the US Army Corps of Engineers designing and building modern wastewater and sewage treatment systems for the indigenous peoples. Construction crews had available M1 Garands with commercial 180-grain softpoint and 12-ga. Pump shotguns with short Magnum 12-pellet 00 buck and slugs. Over the years in multiple bear encounters the 12-ga. was most effective.

[BigAlofPa.]

My 25-5 is the most accurate hand gun i own. I don't carry it though. It's for the range only. It's in great shape. I want to keep it that way. I load 230 grain .452 coated boolets 8 grains of unique for it from Summers enterprises. Of the woods i carry my SBH 7.5 inch barrel. Pic is with some lube cast i loaded a long time ago.
289746

[Tracy]

I wish Ruger would build a large frame version of the LCR. 5 shot .45 Colt, cut for moon clips to use .45 ACP, enough meat in the cylinder to handle .460 Rowland which means it would also handle .45 Colt Ruger Only loads. Not talking about the .45 Colt loads that are intended for 5 shot revolvers; just the ones that are published for factory Blackhawks. The same revolver could easily be made as a 5-shot .44 Mag.

I know it can be done because I have a couple of 5-shot Taurus .44 Mag Trackers. The snubby version weighs 34 ounces, so an LCR of the same size would probably be sub-30 ounces.
Light weight, great DA trigger and a fully shrouded hammer. With either the .44 or .45 I would probably load a 240-255 grain cast SWC at about 1000 fps. That would be a good bear defense revolver.

[Good Cheer]

For a relatively small large bore self defense revolver I'd be happy with a cylinder just long enough to take a .460 case trimmed back a bit and have the chambers bored straight through. That way the heavy hollow point soft lead gas checked flat point wadcutters would be contained entirely within the brass and the brass ends at the front of the cylinder.
I'd developed HPWC .45 Colt loads to try out (like a .38 Special flush seated but scaled up) back about 1981 or 82 and they made rather messy work on armadillos. Longer brass would be a good thing and with what amounts to a magnum snubbie, accuracy would be more than adequate.
If I win the lottery I'll let you know how it works.[smilie=l:

[bigboredad]

Idaho guy
I totally understand your desire to stick to what you know, the 45 colt. It is one of my favorite calibers. All my favorite calibers start with 45. Your bisley is a awesome gun I have one as well. It will hold up to some monster loads the load that scared me was a 350gr. At + 1300fps. Then by mistake one day I discovered how deep penetration I could get with that same 350gr huge meplat bullet at 1000fps out of my 5.5 inch bisley vaquero. The gun was easy to shoot poi was poa . So I'm sure you can get what you need from your gun. But if you want a new gun in d/a my choice would be the newer redhawk in 45 colt and a 4.2 inch bbl. That would be my choice and I would carry in some sort of chest holster.


Now the hard part is finding what you want. I like to watch utahgunexchange.com. The sellers are pretty much on drugs and their prices are high but after a couple weeks most get nervous and are open to suggestions. Have fun making your decisions and shooting

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

[Rodfac]

If it's got to be a .45 Colt, it's my understanding that the Smith's can't or shouldn't be hot-rodded with Ruger only loads. But if the standard .45 Colt prescription of a 250 gr LSWC at 850 fps is good enough, then I'd be looking for a Smith Mountain Gun or their equally good (but with a heavier bbl.) M-25-7. I had one of the early ones, which had grossly oversize cylinder throats (0.457" in my example) which made cast bullet shooting a fools errand. But later production, dash 7 and later IIRC, have closer bbl. vs. cylinder throat tolerances.

For a recommendation, aside from the .45 Colt caliber, I'd suggest a .44 Magnum of Smith or Ruger persuasion with a bbl. short enough to be handy to carry in a cross chest tanker type rig. Smith's model 629 with a full lug bbl. & 6 shot cylinder is a good choice with enough weight to mitigate the .44's recoil. Their model 69 with a 4-1/4" bbl. and a light 38 oz. carry weight might do as well if you can be happy with 5 shots instead of six.

A Ruger Redhawk with a 4" tube in .44 magnum or your preferred .45 Colt is also a possibility. While I'm not personally a fan of Ruger's DA revolvers...hell for strong and with usually good accuracy, they don't appeal to me esthetically but they do enjoy a dedicated following.

Give the caliber some thought...I'd say the .44 Magnum is a better choice...Best Regards, Rod

[Savvy Jack]

Guns are over rated anyway....
291328

[Idaho45guy]

Guns are over rated anyway....
291328

Do you know John Reep? I remember his act on being from Hickory, NC. Hilarious guy!

[MOA]

i love my mountain gun but agree with the 44 suggestion. Unless your buying a huge gun like a ruger alaskan or a tarrus raging bull the 44 will just allows for more power in a simular sized package. A 44 smith N frame will take loads ALOT more powerful then the 45 colt version. You can even go smaller and get one of the 5 shot K frame 44 mags. I own and have owned MANY 45 colts. But that said ive always shook my head at the cult following it gets and even the same for the 41 mag. If your looking at handguns logically the 44 mag will always win. Its the 3006 of handguns. Its never a wrong choice.

I'd have to agree with you Lloyd. A 44 mag loaded anywhere between a 44 special and a full house magnum load will pretty much walk all over anything one can do with a 45 volt. Good guns, dies, brass and just about everything else is no more, or less expensive than the colt cartridge.

https://i.postimg.cc/MKShXSsr/Screenshot-2021-11-07-03-03-51-1-1.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/fyRPmdr6/20180622_152042.jpg (https://postimg.cc/7GjXy5DV)

https://i.postimg.cc/pLF640hf/20180505-164515.jpg (https://postimg.cc/k27stvyG)

https://i.postimg.cc/wj9YHQ9S/20180701-134757.jpg (https://postimg.cc/svHN4SQc)

[jonp]

I'm surprised it took 2 pages for people to start arguing over 44mag vs 45LC even though the OP wasn't asking caliber advice. 44Mag fans just can't seem to help themselves.

Personally given what you are asking I'd go with a Ruger Redhawk. I'm a giant fan of the Blackhawks but I'd bee much more comfortable with a DA in woods protection. You are right to discard a Governor. Neither it nor the Taurus Judge are made for high end loads.

[MOA]

I'm surprised it took 2 pages for people to start arguing over 44mag vs 45LC even though the OP wasn't asking caliber advice. 44Mag fans just can't seem to help themselves.

Personally given what you are asking I'd go with a Ruger Redhawk. I'm a giant fan of the Blackhawks but I'd bee much more comfortable with a DA in woods protection. You are right to discard a Governor. Neither it nor the Taurus Judge are made for high end loads.

I guess it's true. When one is talking about protection from dangerous animal, and a caliber is presented as the subject of examination for said duty. In this case a DA in mid 40 caliber, and in this specific case 45 Colt. But along with caliber and it's duty of protection, price was brought into the picture. Also the 45 Casull was also introduced as a possible tool to be used. All that set aside, I believe that all us 44 mag owners just try to be helpful when the subject of using a handgun for protection against dangerous animals in backwoods country with a DA handgun. All considered, it's a better fit for the job than any thing you can do with a colt 45 in order to save your life. IMHO.

[Savvy Jack]

If I am looking for a DA revolver for killing bears in self defense, I think I will take the advice from folks currently living in Brown Bear country like Alaska over someone in Florida or Ohio and even Michigan!. Maybe even from those with first hand experience such as seasoned guides and those living with the bears that may have such experiences.

Then there are the Black Bear country guys........

[ddixie884]

Guns are over rated anyway....
291328

I'd hate to have to do it like that........

[downzero]

I wish Ruger would build a large frame version of the LCR. 5 shot .45 Colt, cut for moon clips to use .45 ACP, enough meat in the cylinder to handle .460 Rowland which means it would also handle .45 Colt Ruger Only loads. Not talking about the .45 Colt loads that are intended for 5 shot revolvers; just the ones that are published for factory Blackhawks. The same revolver could easily be made as a 5-shot .44 Mag.

I have a magnum j frame and a 4.2" Redhawk. You'd have to be insane to be willing to shoot even my 300 grain loads for the latter out of the former. It would be completely unbearable. I can't imagine what the 2.5" SRH has to feel like with 300s at 15-1600 fps.

[Tracy]

I have a magnum j frame and a 4.2" Redhawk. You'd have to be insane to be willing to shoot even my 300 grain loads for the latter out of the former. It would be completely unbearable. I can't imagine what the 2.5" SRH has to feel like with 300s at 15-1600 fps.

I'm not talking about 300s at 15-1600, although I would have no problem shooting those out of a 2.5" SRH. For my hypothetical large frame LCR though, I'm talking about 255 grains at 1000-1100 fps. Very similar to factory level .44 Mag loads in my Tracker snub.

[Idaho45guy]

With revolver prices the way they are these days, and the chance that I'll both be in grizzly country, and run across an aggressive one, as being next to nothing, I think I'll just leave well enough alone and pack the G29.

Springfield Armory has come out with a G29 fighter that is very, very appealing to me.

Thinking about picking one up and replacing three pistols with it. An 11-round 10mm compact pistol with a red dot would do very well as a carry pistol in most situations.

[jonp]

SW just announced a 10mm compact MP. That is a winner in anyones book

[jreidthompson1]

Linebaugh article on the model 25 with loads
260 gr up to 1200fps. 300-320 up to 1100fps. MAXLOADS

https://web.archive.org/web/20180525063939/http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=12

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[almar]

Look into 454 casull DA revolvers too maybe? You can shoot 45colts in them i believe and have the option of using 454 casull.

[Targa]

My 2000th post on CB is entirely appropriate to the forum as I am contemplating replacing my Ruger Bisley 5.5" in .45 Colt with a revolver in the same caliber.

I love my Ruger! It is accurate, beautiful, wonderful trigger, and makes me smile. However, it's actual job is to be big medicine for woods carry during those rare times I am on the outskirts of grizzly country.

In studying bear attacks, and even cougar attacks, a single-action is not ideal. I double-action is.

So, I am aware of a few revolvers available in .45 Colt. And I understand that I can get a revolver in .45 Casull and have the option of just shooting my .45 Colt loads in it.

Looking for a revolver in stainless, with 4" barrel or less, strong enough for hot .45 Colt loads, popular enough to find holsters for it, and under $1000.

The Ruger Alaskan seems to fit the bill, as does the S&W 625 Mountain Gun. Any other to check out?

This would be pushing the limit on your budget but here is what I would be looking at.. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/916986828

[Idaho45guy]

This would be pushing the limit on your budget but here is what I would be looking at.. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/916986828

$1000 for a used Ruger? Crazy market these days.

[Outpost75]

As a head's up The Woodlawn Boys on Gunbroker are moving in batches about six guns at a time, a collection of over 60 Colt New Service revolvers. With so many flooding the auction market over the next few months, selling prices will be falling. I am seeing that occurring now. You will never again have a better opportunity to get a shooter or collector - grade Colt .45 at a price less than a new Ruger. Some of the listings include NWMP, New York State Troopers, etc.

In addition to the more common .45 Colts and .45 ACPs, there are examples in the less common calibers such as .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .38-40, .44-40, .44 Russian, .450 Revolver, .455 Eley, etc. There are also examples in the less common 4-inch! 4-1/2" and 5-inch as well as the most common 5-1/2" and 7-1/2" models.

If for no reason other than to educate yourself, bookmark this seller's listings.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search?Sort=13&IncludeSellers=2112108&PageSize=24

I've bought several collector revolvers from them and their listings include good high resolution photos and through descriptions. I have no connection with this dealer other than being a very well pleased multiple purchaser.

[Outpost75]

$1000 for a used Ruger? Crazy market these days.

You can get a late 1930s Colt New Service for that.

[outdoorfan]

I went thru a similar thought process as the OP. But, I couldn't give up my 4 5/8" bisley blackhawk .45 colt that is so wonderfully accurate and pleasant to shoot. So, I added a S&W 625 mountain gun. It was north of 1000 bucks, for sure. But I'm glad I have it.

But then I got a hankering for a Glock 30. I put a kkm barrel in it with a more fully supported chamber, a heavier spring, and I run 230 grainers at 1000-1050fps with no problem whatsoever. Although I keep the practice loads closer to 900 fps.

[freakonaleash]

You can get a late 1930s Colt New Service for that.

I was shooting mine yesterday. I don't know if there is a better DA out there for .45LC.