Looks like no more Goex or OE

[brewer12345]

Hodgdon shutting the plant down, laying off all the employees and selling the brand if they can find a buyer. Sounds like the end of domestically produced black powder. A sad day.

[M-Tecs]

The Hodgdon Family turned the business over to Bean Counting Business School Types.

http://namlhunt.com/goex-to-close.html?fbclid=IwAR09kWgfPwV0ocmwD4etzphggnwJ0i b43LSuUeO-PtxGQCFs9YJH8irQZXY

September 27, 2021


​
Hodgdon® Announces Closure of GOEX Facility


Effective immediately, Hodgdon Powder Company, Inc. has made the decision to cease manufacturing operations at the company’s Camp Minden, Louisiana site while evaluating strategic options for the black powder business.

The business will wind down operations while an evaluation process on the future of the black powder business takes place. Strategic options for the GOEX and Olde Eynsford brands of black powder, along with the manufacturing capabilities, will include a potential sale of the business. All affected employees will be retained through December 31, 2021 to assist in an orderly closing of the site and receive
severance commensurate with their years of service to the company.

The Hodgdon Powder Co., Inc has been honored to have been a part of the GOEX Powder legacy and sustains a fond appreciation for sporting customers who have enjoyed shooting GOEX powders.


About Hodgdon Powder Company, Inc.

Established in 1947 by Bruce and Amy Hodgdon, today, sons J.B. and Bob have grown Hodgdon Powder Company into the largest US supplier of smokeless, blackpowder and blackpowder substitute propellants. The company distributes gunpowder under the Hodgdon®, IMR®, Ramshot®, Acccurate®, Winchester®, Pyrodex®, Triple Seven®, Blackhorn 209® and GOEX® brands.

["Spoon"]

It is a sad day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[megasupermagnum]

NOOO! Why does Hodgdon keep discontinuing the best powders? I had no plans for it, and my credit card wont like it, but I guess it's time for an order for more Goex powder. Discontinue that Pyrodex junk. There's no reason for it to exist along with 777, which is a better powder in every way. There's no replacing Goex, it is the only American black powder left.

I wish Alliant would step up their game. If Alliant bought Goex, the only powder I even remotely care about from Hodgdon anymore is 800X. Even H110, I could gladly use Bluedot just fine instead, or 300MP if I really need speed.

I always said I won't make my own powder when I can readily buy fantastic American made Goex. Well, today might be that day.

[Markopolo]

a sad sad day indeed!!!

[dverna]

If they were making money at it they would not shut it down. If I was 20 years younger, I would look at the numbers and see if it was a decent investment. And you can bet, someone will be doing just that. If no one buys it, it will be telling.

[M-Tecs]

There was a fire in June but they planned on rebuilding. Per a family member if the family was still running daily operations they would not be closing it.

https://websterparishjournal.com/2021/06/22/public-awaits-answers-on-goex-explosion/

Just a guess but the issue was not that it was not making money but it was not making enough money. Family businesses tend to keep customer needs and loyalty in mind. The Business School Bean Counters and the leftists are both the same type of swamp scum.

[megasupermagnum]

If they were making money at it they would not shut it down. If I was 20 years younger, I would look at the numbers and see if it was a decent investment. And you can bet, someone will be doing just that. If no one buys it, it will be telling.

So why not raise the price? I don't like paying more either, but apparently they've decided that 777, often selling over $30 a pound is profitable. I loved paying $19 a pound for Goex, but I'd still pay $30 plus shipping for it.

[GregLaROCHE]

That probably means the price of Swiss powders are going to go up and harder to find.

[M-Tecs]

Copied from a post from a friend


By now I am sure most of you have heard the unfortunate news that the GOEX black powder plant in Minden, Louisiana is closing. There was a fire in June 2021 that closed the plant, and sadly for us, the parent company (Hodgdon) crunched the numbers and decided to close it permanently.
GOEX had by far the largest domestic US market share. Other powders are available (Schuetzen, Swiss) but they were already hard to find. The short term impact on our sport and hobby MAY be an increase in the cost of powder, and some reduced availability. Even with GOEX on the market, powder costs have increased (doubled in the last decade). Price increases were happening before GOEX closed.
Schuetzen and Swiss are still available and the US/Canadian black powder market is so large that I cannot imagine a scenario where such a clear demand is not met. The GOEX plant will probably be sold to another producer. It may take time. But it’s a multi-million dollar market for a medieval product that really is not hard to make. This is not “the end of black powder shooting!” that some alarmists are proclaiming. If the GOEX plant in Minden is sold, whoever takes over production will have immediate US Government support, as US military powder was provided by the GOEX Minden plant. It’s cheaper to the government to buy powder, than open a government plant to make it.
Some people have been asking me about US military supply of black powder, which was previously supplied by GOEX. The US military built a “back up” black powder plant in the 1980s, in Indiana. This plant was built after a GOEX factory explosion several decades ago, to prevent a long term shortage of a strategically necessary material. Unfortunately the US Government won’t be commercially selling any powder, if they have to open government powder production back up. It would be the first time in about 100 years that the US Government produces military black powder… I wonder if they need an Ordnance officer to help them out…

[megasupermagnum]

Other than the bit about powder prices doubling in the past decade, which Goex absolutely did NOT double in the past decade, the rest sounds hopeful.

If someone else buys the company, fantastic. I was unable to find any grades of powder I need online, so it seems what I have is what I have. I should be ok for a year or two. After that, hopefully Goex is back at it, otherwise I'm going to make my own.

[M-Tecs]

I was unable to find any grades of powder I need online, so it seems what I have is what I have.

In stock here. Ten years ago I was getting it for under $10.00 when I ordered 25 pounds.

https://powderinc.com/shop/

https://www.buffaloarms.com/black-powder.html

https://mainepowderhouse.com/shop/

[Edward]

In stock here. Ten years ago I was getting it for under $10.00 when I ordered 25 pounds.

https://powderinc.com/shop/

https://www.buffaloarms.com/black-powder.html

https://mainepowderhouse.com/shop/

Not as of today (OUT OF STOCK ) is what it says ,NO powder/Ed

[DaveM]

Nothing on the Hodgdon website, the Goex website, nor on the Hodgdon Facebook page. However, I did see references on Facebook to the effect that this may be a hoax that gets around every couple of years. I am really hoping that this is the case.

[dondiego]

You can make your own good black powder for less than $5 per pound. There is a good thread here about it.

[Doughty]

Goex site now saying they are closing down, immediately.

[dverna]

So why not raise the price? I don't like paying more either, but apparently they've decided that 777, often selling over $30 a pound is profitable. I loved paying $19 a pound for Goex, but I'd still pay $30 plus shipping for it.

That would be the smart thing to do. But I do not know enough about the condition of the plant or how much inventory they had/have. Of course, if they do that, raise prices, many will call them "scaplers"...

If they needed a 30% price increase to make it worthwhile, the question is how the market will react. If it will cost them say $10 million to rebuild the plant, it may be a crap shoot they are not prepared to risk. OTOH, one would think they had insurance and their actual out of pocket costs would be minimal....and that makes the "profitablity" even less attractive!

Having run a business, and shut down products, I can tell you it is a well thought out process. No one walks away from a market and customer base without trying to make it work.

Their primary responsibility is to the share holders....not to customer needs. Satisfying customer needs is a means to an end....making money.

[megasupermagnum]

Powder Inc was all out of what I wanted last night. I'm only interested in Fg and FFg. Buffalo Arms has nothing. Maine powder house unfortunately put a limit of 10 pounds yesterday.

[Harter66]

Remington filed bankruptcy and sold the ammo business with a huge back log of orders they weren't meeting ........ It ain't always about the money .

OSHA , EPA rule changes , and the age of the facilities and tooling may be driving the decision more than profit margins . Refits/rebuilds often demand that the replaced equipment be today compliant rather than just a rebuild of the existing . If they were making components on site it's possible that the charcoal kilns may have been the killer .

As for making your own it's not difficult or expensive to get started . Once you get your components squared away , either by source or self , it's not any more difficult than shooting boolits without leading to produce corned , granulated , powder as good or better than Goex or OE .

[Edward]

Copied from a post from a friend


By now I am sure most of you have heard the unfortunate news that the GOEX black powder plant in Minden, Louisiana is closing. There was a fire in June 2021 that closed the plant, and sadly for us, the parent company (Hodgdon) crunched the numbers and decided to close it permanently.
GOEX had by far the largest domestic US market share. Other powders are available (Schuetzen, Swiss) but they were already hard to find. The short term impact on our sport and hobby MAY be an increase in the cost of powder, and some reduced availability. Even with GOEX on the market, powder costs have increased (doubled in the last decade). Price increases were happening before GOEX closed.
Schuetzen and Swiss are still available and the US/Canadian black powder market is so large that I cannot imagine a scenario where such a clear demand is not met. The GOEX plant will probably be sold to another producer. It may take time. But it’s a multi-million dollar market for a medieval product that really is not hard to make. This is not “the end of black powder shooting!” that some alarmists are proclaiming. If the GOEX plant in Minden is sold, whoever takes over production will have immediate US Government support, as US military powder was provided by the GOEX Minden plant. It’s cheaper to the government to buy powder, than open a government plant to make it.
Some people have been asking me about US military supply of black powder, which was previously supplied by GOEX. The US military built a “back up” black powder plant in the 1980s, in Indiana. This plant was built after a GOEX factory explosion several decades ago, to prevent a long term shortage of a strategically necessary material. Unfortunately the US Government won’t be commercially selling any powder, if they have to open government powder production back up. It would be the first time in about 100 years that the US Government produces military black powder… I wonder if they need an Ordnance officer to help them out…

Since when has government been concerned with price? $1200.00 hammers anyone? The key will be for government use only ,commercial use ? (HA_HA) can anyone say gun control?

[Sixgun Symphony]

That Goex mentions cost increases for part of their decision to shut down the Goex black powder production, I wonder how much of those costs increases are due to regulatory powers of deep state bureaucrats appointed by anti-gun politicians. Things like hazmat fees, zoning, and other regulatory powers can be an opportunity to choke the life out of the gun industry.

[Mr Peabody]

I think the demand and profit margin for the synthetic stuff is great enough to let go of the black powder plant. I haven't talked to another hunter around here who uses black, mostly people ask why do you shoot that stuff?

[freakonaleash]

I think the demand and profit margin for the synthetic stuff is great enough to let go of the black powder plant. I haven't talked to another hunter around here who uses black, mostly people ask why do you shoot that stuff?

I'd quit if I couldn't shoot real black powder.

[Mr Peabody]

I won't quit. But it sure takes away from the fun having to use something besides black.

[Froogal]

I think the demand and profit margin for the synthetic stuff is great enough to let go of the black powder plant. I haven't talked to another hunter around here who uses black, mostly people ask why do you shoot that stuff?

The folks who use the REAL black powder are the cowboy action shooters and the civil war re-enactors.

[Thundermaker]

https://youtu.be/oHLS3dwxr4o

[Thundermaker]

I won't quit. But it sure takes away from the fun having to use something besides black.

And flintlock shooters.

[Edward]

And side lock and under hammers and pistol and (you get the picture) along with Black powder cartridge shooters /Ed

[dverna]

I did not watch all the video...but enough to confirm that there is not enough profit in the business to justify either adding more resources to grow it, or keep it as is. A niche market does not fit Hodgdon's business plan.

A brand name has some value but not much in this case. If the sale includes production facilities, equipment, distribution, patents, and trade secrets the value increases. I suspect, in this case, the brand name is not going to have much value because people will not have a lot of choices anyway...they will buy whatever is available if it works. Much like primers today....if someone had Wolf primers at $50/1000 they would sell out in a day. In fact, the brand name may be a negative unless the new company makes an identical or better product. I can hear it now, "The new Goex is not the same...it is crap...I will never buy another pound of it...etc, etc". Whereas, if a new player entered the market to capture the market share lost by Goex, and is was a decent product, people would say, "it is almost as good as Goex, works well enough for my needs etc etc"

[Thundermaker]

Pretty much any time a long-standing brand changes hands, there's always a little sect within the customer base that spouts that. "The new ______ will never be as good as the old ______. They don't care about the brand! They just want money!"

[almar]

The folks who use the REAL black powder are the cowboy action shooters and the civil war re-enactors.

I have a feeling that the only people that use synthetic stuff exclusively are hunters with in lines.

On another note I hope they find a buyer that really develops the product into something that beats swiss powder even.

[M-Tecs]

For BPCR subs and smokeless are not allowed. It has to be real BP.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Guess it was good I picked up a few Lbs. I really didn't need last month!

[freakonaleash]

I won't quit. But it sure takes away from the fun having to use something besides black.

I won't have to quit either. I have enough to get me through till I croak.

[charlie b]

If there is enough profit in it someone will buy the plant and start producing the stuff.

I am one that has not used pure black for a long time. Pyrodex has worked for me for a LONG time. I don't hunt and don't shoot flintlocks. Only percussion side locks.

A flinter would be the one thing that would tempt me to go to the trouble of getting pure black. But, don't see that happening in the near future.


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[R-71]

There is no incentive for them to continue making it. It's only about their profit and they feel they have other products that will fill the needs of their customers. I emailed them and told them I would no longer use any Hodgdon products. I'd rather make my own BP if it comes to it.

[Sixgun Symphony]

I have a feeling that the only people that use synthetic stuff exclusively are hunters with in lines..

Hammer meets nail.

I run into alot of hunters that say they use the modern inline rifles "because they're easier". Not really, as I can use the speedloading tubes with the traditional rifles as they can with their inline rifles. For cleaning, not so. Especially not compared to using a patched jag on a range rod for the hooked breach percussion rifle barrel in a bucket of hot, soapy water. I offer to demonstrate, none of the inline users wants to learn. They really just want a modern rifle, it is why Remington produced a faux bolt-action inline rifle. I call it the panacea rifle. Remington knows their market.

[uscra112]

I guess there was a market for Goex after all. I switched to Swiss a good many years ago, so it's no surprise to me that Hodgdon has pulled the plug.

[0verkill]

Why is it we're told to support American companies yet they don't support us?

[Sixgun Symphony]

Why is it we're told to support American companies yet they don't support us?

Mostly to support American workers. Also so that our money is circulated back into the US economy. We also need production inside the US because it only takes a presidential order to stop imports.

[Tar Heel]

Why is it we're told to support American companies yet they don't support us?

In a word - TAXES

[0verkill]

How is it supporting American workers if they keep closing down plants?

[charlie b]

It is interesting talking about American made powder while most of us are using rifles/barrels made in other countries.

PS does Hodgdon have any powder manufacturing facilities left in the US? Not 'blending' but actual powder making.

[Thundermaker]

It is interesting talking about American made powder while most of us are using rifles/barrels made in other countries.

PS does Hodgdon have any powder manufacturing facilities left in the US? Not 'blending' but actual powder making.

I'm fairly certain that general dynamics makes most of it for them.

[M-Tecs]

It is interesting talking about American made powder while most of us are using rifles/barrels made in other countries.

PS does Hodgdon have any powder manufacturing facilities left in the US? Not 'blending' but actual powder making.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/what-gun-powders-are-actually-manufactured-in-the-united-states.241267/

St, Marks Florida. It's the onetime Olin Corp plant, now part of General Dynamics. It makes double-based ball powders only or those (Such as Hodgdon Hybrid 100V and some Alliant types) using the same slurry / distillation based process.

All Winchester and Hodgdon ball / 'spherical' grades are supplied by St. Marks as are nearly all propellants used in US military small arms ammo, the US government having decided way back in the 1950s with 7.62 adoption that this type would be the norm, sniper and special purpose ammo aside.

Ramshot / Accurate ball powder comes from PB Clermont in Belgium. Hodgdon extruded grades and IMR-8208 XBR from Thales / ADI in Mulwala, NSW, Australia. Other than 8208 XBR, IMR extruded rifle powders are also made by a General Dynamics Corp owned plant in Valleyfield, Ontario, Canada. (Hodgdon owns the IMR brand name and marketing rights IIRC.) This plant also makes some Accurate brand extruded numbers. All Vihtavuori powders come from the town of that name in Finland.

Alliant 'Reloder' extruded grades were all made by Bofors in Sweden until a few years ago, but some recent additions such as Re17 and Re33 are sourced from Nitrochemie Wimmins AG in Switzerland. Alliant has also started using spherical grades from St. Marks.

Health & Safety and the EPA is the primary reason that all extruded powders are made outside of the USA. Ball types manufacture uses non-inflammable / explosive slurries with material piped between processes until the little balls are distilled out at a late stage for chemical treatments and grading. This method also allows old out of date propellants to be recycled alongside fresh ingredients reducing costs.

Extruded powders start by dissolving cellulose in powerful acids, a dangerous exothermic process and whose products are immediately highly explosive and inflammable, then further inherently dangerous processes and solvents are used to convert 'guncotton' into usable propellants. Many of the materials used are corrosive and toxic, likewise creating waste and pollution issues that have to be dealt with nowadays, not just dumped into waste ground or rivers as would once have been done.

All this makes the manufacture of this type inherently riskier which in this day and age is also much more expensive. A guy in the handloading powder business stated years ago that the EPA hadn't banned extruded powder manufacture, but its regulations were so onerous that any such produced in the country, (USA), would be so expensive, nobody would buy them.

Extruded propellants are widely manufactured in Europe still, although many older plants have closed over the last 20-30 years. None at all are manufactured in the USA since the DuPont Corporation firstly moved propellant production to Canada then later sold that operation. No doubt, the American military's decision to switch to ball propellants was a major influence here as military demand is the largest single component of many explosive manufacturers' business. Nevertheless, the US market for sporting ammunition and her industry's manufacturing outputs probably exceeds all of that of Europe combined.

Yes, I know Europe has high safety and environmental standards - the UK has not manufactured propellants since the ICI Nobel plant in Scotland closed in the late 1980s or early 1990s. However, there is a big difference between having exacting regulations and having such that are so onerous that there might as well be a complete ban which is what my contacts in the American handloading powders business have told me about the EPA's attitudes to manufacturing this (extruded) form.

One area where the EC is becoming more restrictive than the US is fast appearing though. That is the EC REACH program which is steadily evaluating every chemical used and identifying risks to human health, then legally forcing their replacements with safer alternatives.

It is known that some traditional chemical burning rate deterrents and other such behavior modifiers long used in small arms propellants are deemed to be in the dangerous category, so many long established powders are now living on borrowed time. A little commented on element of the blurb about the new IMR Enduron powders is that they are 'environmentally friendly'. It actually goes a bit further than that as many existing powders will not be allowed to be sold in EC countries in a very few years time, nor will ammunition loaded with them. General Dynamics / IMR is getting itself geared up to this challenge with its new products. Once the new regulations start to apply no older long established IMR grades will be compliant, that also applying to many other makes. I don't know how this affects many existing European manufacturers other than Nitrochemie whose powders are already compliant, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if this doesn't sound the death knell for some as there is substantially more capacity than demand for powders, given the lack of wartime requirements, but western governments have long since stopped worrying about that.

So far at any rate, there seems to be no US equivalent to REACH in this field, so many older propellants will continue to be sold in this market, likewise loaded ammunition.

[M-Tecs]

I'm fairly certain that general dynamics makes most of it for them.

List of the powder they make https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/BALL-POWDER-Propellants_v2.pdf

[megasupermagnum]

It is interesting talking about American made powder while most of us are using rifles/barrels made in other countries.

PS does Hodgdon have any powder manufacturing facilities left in the US? Not 'blending' but actual powder making.

I avoid it like the plague. My Thompson Center's were all built in the USA. I won't own a Lyman/CVA/Traditions etc. for that reason. Way too many great USA barrel makers to mess around with foreign barrels. Yes, Hodgdon has plenty of powder made in the USA. Even their IMR stuff is made in Canada, but packaged in the USA for some reason.

[0verkill]

I thought some of the T/Cs were rebranded Investarms?

[megasupermagnum]

I thought some of the T/Cs were rebranded Investarms?

No. I'm not aware of a single Thompson Center that was made by someone else. I know for sure all the Hawken/Renegade, Seneca/Cherokee, New Englander, White Mountain carbine, tree hawk, patriot pistol, scout rifle/pistol, Encore, Omega, and Impact were all made in the USA. That might be half of what they have made, they made a ton of stuff at one point. T/C used to be one heck of a brand.