.223 mousefart load help

[johnsonian09]

Been trying to develop a load for my ar15 to use straight pull bolt style. Doesnt have to cycle the action.

Just want to shoot subsonic 860-980fps.
Loading cheap airgun pellets and slugs.
And keep the report next to nothing without any fancy muzzledevices. Using powders that I already stock. Unless someone knows something that will work for sure.

I've heard bullseye and h110 dont like reduced loads that much. So I've ruled those out unless someone advises otherwise.

Other then that I have powerpro4000, rl25, and h335.

My best load quiet wise so far is .5grains of rl25. Its accurate at 25yards, haven't tried farther. however the speed is only 560fps. The only thing you hear is the firing pin and the cardboard as long as you give it a good tight crimp.


Has anyone had success with really light loads in a .223 case?



Sent from my SM-J337VPP using Tapatalk

[dverna]

If you cannot get there with Bullseye, your journey is over. It will be the best powder.

Why you would waste expensive primers makes no sense...buy an air gun if you want to shoot pellets.

[johnsonian09]

I haven't tried bullseye, as I was told really small charges of it would cause pressure problems.

Is that tidbit of information false?

It's for fun tinkerings sake. That's all. I can manufacture my own primers so that's not really an issue for me. .001 cents a primer is not expensive. Especially when I can sit down at my workbench, and watch tv as I casually assemble them.

Sent from my SM-J337VPP using Tapatalk

[dverna]

I would start with 2 gr of Bullseye. Fair warning...it could blow your gun up and kill you...but that is what I would do. That should avoid a lawsuit.

[GhostHawk]

I have not tried .22 pellets, or bullseye.

But 55 grain bator cast and 3 grains of Red Dot works great for a .22lr replacement.

[Outpost75]

I haven't tried bullseye, as I was told really small charges of it would cause pressure problems.

Is that tidbit of information false?

Sent from my SM-J337VPP using Tapatalk

False. Lightest charge with 55 - grain M193 FMJ which will reliably exit the barrel of a short - barreled AR is 4 grains of Bullseye. In a longer 20-inch barrel increase charge to 4.5 grains.USE NO FILLER!

With a lubricated lead bullet you can reduce the minimum load by 1 grain.

Max charge not to be exceeded is 6 grains of Bullseye.

[Winger Ed.]

I never did it, but a buddy used to load 5 gr. of Unique, and regular 50 or 55gr bullets
to shoot out his bedroom window into the back yard.

(yeah, he was single then)

[farmerjim]

Bullseye works great in 223 subsonic loads. Start at 2 grains and work down till the bullet does not exit the barrel. Have a rod ready to knock it out and go back up.
Always be sure the boolit exits the barrel each shot when using lite loads.

[Larry Gibson]

I use 2.1 gr of Bullseye under a 55 gr very soft cast (40-1) 225415 in my suppressed 223. Runs right at 1100 fps out of the 21" barrel. It is a single shot Contender so I don't have the problems an AR will give. The problem with such in the AR is the gas is vented very quickly in the long gas tube. Thus with the sudden drop in pressure when the bullet passes the gas port the gas is bled off with a drastic drop in pressure behind the bullet. The bullet then may stop in the barrel. As mentioned a cleaning rod should be kept handy when working up the load. May not get a reliable exiting bullet, especially if hard cast or hardened, at reliable exiting that is subsonic. Depends on AR used, bullet and lube.

With small doses of any powder and a pellet the problem is the grit from the primer builds up and causes accuracy a reliable exiting problems. Back when I used pellets I wiped the bore with a Hoppe's soaked patch every 5 shots. Was more of a pain than a gain so I quick using such in gas guns (ARs and Mini14s) and use an M261 sub cal device instead.

[DonHowe]

[QUOTE=johnsonian09;5268744]I haven't tried bullseye, as I was told really small charges of it would cause pressure /QUOTE]

This is why one should not believe everything one hears (or reads). This likely goes way back to the stories about 2.7gr of Bullseye under wadcutters blowing up .38 Spl revolvers; something which could never (to my knowledge) be duplicated thru much testing. What COULD AND DID produce the described destruction was 2 2.7gr charges of Bullseye under 148gr wadcutter in a .38 Spl case, frequently caused by opera th or error of progressive loaders.
Do some searching and reading about Cat Sneeze loads.

[6.5 mike]

As Ghosthawk said 3 gr of red dot & the lee bator is a great 22 replacement. Used my #1 ruger for best results in that gun, w-w bass & cci sr primers. 1 ragged hole @ 25 yds off rest & bag. Need to try this one with the NOE 55 gr.

[gpidaho]

Been trying to develop a load for my ar15 to use straight pull bolt style. Doesnt have to cycle the action.

Just want to shoot subsonic 860-980fps.
Loading cheap airgun pellets and slugs.
And keep the report next to nothing without any fancy muzzledevices. Using powders that I already stock. Unless someone knows something that will work for sure.

I've heard bullseye and h110 dont like reduced loads that much. So I've ruled those out unless someone advises otherwise.

Other then that I have powerpro4000, rl25, and h335.

My best load quiet wise so far is .5grains of rl25. Its accurate at 25yards, haven't tried farther. however the speed is only 560fps. The only thing you hear is the firing pin and the cardboard as long as you give it a good tight crimp.


Has anyone had success with really light loads in a .223 case?



Sent from my SM-J337VPP using Tapatalk I've had my success with TiteGroup in 223 (very) reduced loads. These were fired from a 9 twist Handi rifle not an AR but I've used as little as 2.7gr. with powdercoated 55gr. bullets and as much as 8.5gr. Somewhere in there you should find something you like. Gp

[too many things]

a 45gr lead small rifle mag primer NO powder 50ft if you want 100ft you will need the load larry posted . but 2gr is pain best may make dipper 22lr case 3/4 is near 2gr
Lee had one in the old black set. if you can find on the feebay

[oldblinddog]

I haven't tried bullseye, as I was told really small charges of it would cause pressure problems.

Is that tidbit of information false?



That’s the trouble with the world…it’s full of ignorance.

I get 1186 fps from the 60 gr NOE bullet over 3.1 grs. of Bullseye from my Remington 700.

[uscra112]

I haven't tried bullseye, as I was told really small charges of it would cause pressure problems.

Is that tidbit of information false?

It's for fun tinkerings sake. That's all. I can manufacture my own primers so that's not really an issue for me. .001 cents a primer is not expensive. Especially when I can sit down at my workbench, and watch tv as I casually assemble them.

Sent from my SM-J337VPP using Tapatalk

Bullseye can't get you in trouble unless you double charge a normal load in your .38 Special. The old wives tale of it "detonating" is purest horse manure. Made up by reloaders who couldn't admit they screwed up.

I shoot the .223 in a bolt gun - my go-to powder for very light loads is good old Red Dot. It isn't particularly position sensitive, but I have used a tuft of kapok to hold it closer to the primer. DO NOT POLYESTER FIBER. It doesn't burn in these light loads; it melts and adheres to anything it touches, and is almost impossible to remove. (Ask me how I know.) Kapok is easily found on Amazon. Natural fiber that doesn't foul your gun.

[Alferd Packer]

Should be a sticky!

[Larry Gibson]

I've not shot a 22 cal pellets in any AR but I have in several 223 bolt actions and SSs with 12 and 14" twists. I mostly used 14.3 gr pellets (CPs or Benjamins). I usede cases modified to take a #57 shotgun primer. They work ok but best was with SR primers and Bullseye. Start with 1 gr and work +/- in 1/10 gr increments. I found the key to accuracy was to work up to just under where the pellet skirt was blown. That becomes very apparent on target (50 ft was what I was shooting at). I ended up making a small dipper out of a primer cup by epoxying a handle on it. small wafers of paper from a hole puncher could be pressed into it or removed to bring the charge of Bullseye to the desired weight. I found no need to size the necks, just wiped off, deprimed and reprimed the cases. Then I dipper charged the case and set it in a loading block. the pellets were hand seated into the necks which were initially sized, camphered and slightly belled. Only needed to do that initially as there's not enough psi to obturate the neck.

A double or even a triple charge of bullseye as dipper measured from a primer cup in a 223 case under a 14.3 gr pellet is not going to generate any pressure problems. it will streak lead in the barrel though and be very inaccurate.

[Alferd Packer]

This is the the hand book of instruction for fun shooting and how to get the most from a .223
caliber.
Thanks again Larry Gibson and the other contributors as well.
In these times when the ranges are closed or otherwise unavailable or inconvenient, backyard shooting, basement or garage, or even the length of a hallway or across two or three rooms connected by open doorways, or even an attic. Ability to shoot at a target helps to keep the interest going.
There are pellet guns yes, but there are those of us that need the smell of burnt powder and even the smell of a primer propellant to feel satisfied.
Also, these loads can be used for small game or pest eradication without shooting thru a wall or floor and endangering someone or puncturing a pipe or electrical wiring, using good judgement at at all times of course.There are always exceptions to be found with any statement.
Anyway, I hope it is made a sticky.

[Alferd Packer]

I second Larry's suggestion to use paper punching to fill a .22 rinfire case to be used as a powder dipper.
Many years ago I soldered a piece of wire to a .22 rf case and cut and filed it down to make a one grain dipper for bullseye powder. All there was left was the rim and attached shred of casing that while it always dipped one grain , it looked so pitiful that it was ridiculous.
Still have it, but using a full .22 rf case and reducing the volume with paper, leaves a better looking tool.
There is more than one way for a solution to achieve the same results. More pleasing appearance at least.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I am guilty of a misread.
I just reread this thread and I see where Larry G. used a primer cup, not a .22 case to make his dipper.
My apologies to Larry.
The primer cup is a great way to start a dipper cup for a grain of Bullseye.
Wish I' d seen that, but now I do.Anyway, this is what happens when you think you see what ain't there, or my mistake.
This is a good thread and should excite some new reloaders if they try the methods suggested for shooting in small spaces and close places. Happy Holidays!

[Markopolo]

subscribed!!!!!

[uscra112]

Now there's a REAL mousefart load!

[Tripplebeards]

What about trailboss?

[HiVelocity]

Not really a "light" load, but I shoot NOE 60gr powder coated RN over 8 gr of Unique. Accurate, and cheap.
[Disclaimer: As usual, this load shoots in my bolt gun, shoot at your OWN risk]

HV

[rtyler8140]

1.5g of titegroup with the Lee 55g rf boolit w/o a gas check out of a 16" AR was running 700ish fps. Buddy ran some through his suppressor and it was Hollywood quiet.

[quilbilly]

I got very good results with Bullseye in my 223 T/C carbine. I used about 3 gr and put in a magnum primer for more consistent ignition.

[Black Beard]

Vitavourhi N310 and N320 are both good powders and burn cleaner than bullseye. The 310 is a bit faster but super-small powder particles are a pain to work with.

For the most bullet energy output with minimum noise you want:

The heaviest bullet- takes more energy from the hot gasses
A soft lead bullet- upsets into bore better, pushing up initial pressures and is more accurate
Minimum case capacity- bit tough without a new gun
A flat base bullet. Better stability with long slow bullets
A round nose bullet. Shorter so more stable.
Minimum powder- less gas. Lower pressure when bullet exits
A fast powder- increased pressure with lower powder charges.
Good bullet lubrication- safer and allows slightly lower powder charges.

The idea is you use the minimum amount of powder and get as much energy out of it before the bullet exits the barrel. This makes the least bang.

Keep the velocity below 950 fps or supersonic noise from the bullet will ruin it all.

Most .22 airgun pellets are actually 5.5 mm (.218). You might find they are a lot less accurate than proper .224 cast bullets.

[SSGOldfart]

I've used a small rifle primer and a 22 caliber pellet with no powder it worked great in a M16 used to train troops in a hallway,even cleared out a few rats along the way.:bigsmyl2:

[Soundguy]

titegroup... 3.1 grains... 55gran fmj.. etc.... 1064 fps 4000cup .. right from hodgdons site.

[Black Beard]

Cast are better than jacketed. Less likely to get stuck and a lot easier to get out if they do get stuck.