357/44 Bobcat

[Bloodhound689]

Does anyone have any experience with this wildcat? I just picked up a barrel for a contender from a guy who thought it was a .357 Magnum. When he gave me the RCBS Dies labeled 357/44 Bobcat I have to admit that I did get a little excited. The problem is that there is no markings on the barrel other than 357 Magnum (From TC).

Before looking anything up I ran a test round through the press. Did the clunk test and everything sounded good. Only problem is that its almost like the rim of the cartridge is too big and won't fit. Starting to worry it was a at home job not done right.

What are your thoughts?

[dk17hmr]

Chamber cast is my thought.

[Jedman]

What brass is it formed on ? Is it like the Bain & Davis round .

Jedman

[Bloodhound689]

I have about 15 minutes of researching this round. What i know is it it a .44 magnum case necked down to .357. That is about it. I read a couple forum guys asking if it was the Bain & Davis round but didn't see much of an answer.

[Bloodhound689]

Chamber cast is my thought.


Are you talking send it in to a smith or get some clay or something and do it at the house? Never thought to look that up but its a good idea.

[Nobade]

If you want to sell those dies I want to buy them. A buddy has one of those Bobcat revolvers and really wants to be able to shoot it. We've been trying to find a die set for many years now, they're pretty rare. Does the TC chamber you have use the plastic sleeves like the revolver or just the bare brass?

[Bloodhound689]

If you want to sell those dies I want to buy them. A buddy has one of those Bobcat revolvers and really wants to be able to shoot it. We've been trying to find a die set for many years now, they're pretty rare. Does the TC chamber you have use the plastic sleeves like the revolver or just the bare brass?

I'm not sure yet if the spacers are needed. I started researching casting the chamber (Thanks dk17hmr) Looks like a pretty easy process. I will let you know if the spacers are required. I hope not but if it does require them I will have a guy I work with make them on his 3D printer. If this barrel doesn't pan out I will revisit selling/trading the dies.

Like I said above the brass only seats up to the case rim. I may need to make some more adjustments on the die but the contender definitely does not lock up with a cartridge in there. Only messed with it for about 5 minutes.

[richhodg66]

Are you talking send it in to a smith or get some clay or something and do it at the house? Never thought to look that up but its a good idea.

Buy some cerrosafe off ebay. Melts at about 200 degrees, I use a soda can with the top cut off bent into a spout on a hot plate. wad up an oiled patch and push it in the barrel just forward of the throat. Lightly oil the chamber. Pour molten cerrosafe in the chamber, let it harden, just takes a few seconds, then push out the casting. You can then take any measurements you want and use the cerrosafe over and over again.

If you've ever changed the oil in your car, you have performed a task that requires a lot more mental agility and mechanical aptitude than making a chamber cast.

[Bloodhound689]

Buy some cerrosafe off ebay. Melts at about 200 degrees, I use a soda can with the top cut off bent into a spout on a hot plate. wad up an oiled patch and push it in the barrel just forward of the throat. Lightly oil the chamber. Pour molten cerrosafe in the chamber, let it harden, just takes a few seconds, then push out the casting. You can then take any measurements you want and use the cerrosafe over and over again.

If you've ever changed the oil in your car, you have performed a task that requires a lot more mental agility and mechanical aptitude than making a chamber cast.

The last sentence made me laugh. I will be ordering it off of amazon. I'm thinking I'm going to use the Rotometals though. Looks fairly easy. Thank you for the tips.

[Green Frog]

I have about 15 minutes of researching this round. What i know is it it a .44 magnum case necked down to .357. That is about it. I read a couple forum guys asking if it was the Bain & Davis round but didn't see much of an answer.

The 357/44 B&D was much more common and is somewhat often seen in TC Contenders. Like others (apparently) I’m not familiar with the Bobcat, but would guess it may have been somebody’s way of avoiding giving credit (and royalties?) to Bain & Davis. How about a picture of your barrel? Is it octagon or bull? How long? I would have to say you have a rare barrel (if factory) and especially if octagon. TC collectors would probably go Gaga for it!

Froggie

[Green Frog]

Re: the spacers; some of the original Ruger BH based B&D revolvers used a 44 mag cylinder and a 357 barrel. The cartridges used nylon (?) spacers to keep the necked-down cartridges aligned in the chamber. I doubt this would be done in a single shot.

Froggie

[Bloodhound689]

Green Frog - I doubt that it is either (bored for rings). I am flying out of town tonight but you can bet I will be doing the chamber casting shortly after I get back. I haven't even tried to figure out how to post pictures yet but it is a factory TC 10" barrel originally chambered in .357 Magnum that was bored out to this caliber. So I am not sure if it has any real value. Its already been a pretty good talking point at work.

I did find an article in a 1979 Guns and Ammo magazine. When I get more time I will see if I can post the pictures of it. I have been waiting on the plane ride to read it (need something to do).

[Nobade]

The 357/44 B&D was much more common and is somewhat often seen in TC Contenders. Like others (apparently) I’m not familiar with the Bobcat, but would guess it may have been somebody’s way of avoiding giving credit (and royalties?) to Bain & Davis. How about a picture of your barrel? Is it octagon or bull? How long? I would have to say you have a rare barrel (if factory) and especially if octagon. TC collectors would probably go Gaga for it!

Froggie

The original idea was being able to rechamber S&W model 27 or Ruger Blackhawk in 357 for more power. The B&D had been around for a while and people were familiar with the setback problems in revolvers. This cartridge used plastic rings to make the finished round look like a 44 magnum case but hold a 357 bullet. That way the chamber reamers were simple to make, just a straight hole with no taper and a square end. The rings were glued on the cases, and had to be removed to reload it. They usually broke. RCBS made the dies, but currently say they will not make any more. CH4D will make them with a three year lead time. I am almost to the point of making a set for my buddy's revolver to get it running, but if I could find a set of the original dies that would be so much nicer. It has a longer neck and sharper shoulder than a B&D, so they are not interchangeable but are roughly the same idea otherwise, as far as case shape. There were also several versions made and that makes it all that more interesting as well.

[Bloodhound689]

I finally made a chamber casting for this barrel. It was definitely cut for the cartridge without the ring over it which is good. I did find out where the neck on the loaded round starts to taper is just a little passed where the chamber tapers which is why its not seating completely. I will have to get the dies out and adjust them a little bit deeper to see if I can get the neck pushed back a little. Hopefully the next one will seat all the way.

I enjoyed doing the chamber casting so much I ended up doing all the contender barrels. One two pound bar had enough to do 8 barrels with a little extra to spare.

Below is the link to the Guns and Ammo article that I was talking about a while ago if anyone is interested in reading it. It is titled Bain and Davis in the link but the article is for the Bobcat

http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohland/Cast_Bullet/357-44_Bain-Davis/Guns_Ammo_MAR_1979.pdf

[Rapier]

I bet you will need to crush fit the initial cases in the chamber, fire form, then the fired cases will function properly afterwards in the TC without misfires. This process could be similar to making 357 Harrett brass in the TC.

[Bloodhound689]

I bet you will need to crush fit the initial cases in the chamber, fire form, then the fired cases will function properly afterwards in the TC without misfires. This process could be similar to making 357 Harrett brass in the TC.

I was hoping not. I don’t like slam shutting the contender. I had to do that with the 7-30 Waters barrel that I have. Thanks for the tip.

[Bloodhound689]

Gave it another go and they chamber just fine. I just needed to adjust the sizing die a little more. Thought I had it bottomed out on the shell holder the first time but I guess not. I just loaded my first nine test rounds using the load data from the Guns & Ammo magazine I posted a few days ago. Now I need to get to the range.

[farmbif]

I'm jealous, im still kicking myself for not buying a marlin 1894 rechambered by Bain and Davis with a die set for $400.

[Bloodhound689]

I'm jealous, im still kicking myself for not buying a marlin 1894 rechambered by Bain and Davis with a die set for $400.

The best part of this one is I didn't even know what got until I pulled everything out when I got home. I made a trade for a frame, four barrels and three scopes. Came with two sets of dies. The guy told me that it was a 357 magnum so he didn't even know what he had. I really wanted the frame and two of the four barrels.

Another thing that was pretty cool was the 7mm TCU dies had an original load data sheet from TC. Im sure there were thousands sent out but I liked it.

[Pressman]

I'm jealous, im still kicking myself for not buying a marlin 1894 rechambered by Bain and Davis with a die set for $400.

Yes, that would be a nice challenge, for reloading and accuracy.

I have an H&R Handi rifle in 357-44 Bain&Davis. It presented some accuracy issues till I settled on .358" jacketed bullets. Now it's a fine shooter with a nice "kick".

[Bloodhound689]

Took the Bobcat to the range this weekend. I only loaded 9 (3 - Hornady 125 XTP, 3 - Hornady 140 XTP, 3 - Everglades 158 JSP). This was more of just checking the function of the barrel. I was a little hesitant because it was rechambered and no marking indicated the rechamber. Either way. All 9 rounds with no issues so I am happy. I will admit I was expecting a little more recoil. Don't get me wrong it is stout. I just thought there would be more in my mind.

[Bloodhound689]

If you want to sell those dies I want to buy them. A buddy has one of those Bobcat revolvers and really wants to be able to shoot it. We've been trying to find a die set for many years now, they're pretty rare. Does the TC chamber you have use the plastic sleeves like the revolver or just the bare brass?

Sending you a quick message on this