What is the ultimate 38/357 die setup for cast boolits?

[Stopsign32v]

I realize this thread might not go anywhere since a lot of people think a set of dies are pretty much a set of dies. But I figured I'd make it anyways.

I'm looking for the "best" die setup for my 38/357 reloading. Right now I'm using the LEE dies and honestly cannot stand them. The expander die is utter trash and the factory crimp die is somewhat of an on/off switch. Time to graduate to better things...

So what is your opinion of the best setup?

Right now I have a set of Lyman Carbide 3 die setup on the way and I've read on the S&W forums that people seem to think the Redding profile crimp die is so good that it's worth ordering by itself...

[lar45]

I have used the RCBS dies for many decades and have never had a problem with them. You can use your Lee dies to seat the bullets and the RCBS to crimp in a separate step.

[luky-dude]

With cast Dillon no question, so you can clean both.

[dverna]

I like the Dillon dies as they are easy to clean without having to reset them. Just remove the spring slip at the top and done.

https://www.dillonprecision.com/carbide-pistol-dies-three-die-sets_8_4_24445.html

[lightman]

I have used mostly RCBS and Dillon for a long time with no problems. I doubt you will have any problems with any other brand.

[Murphy]

I've been an RCBS fan from the beginning 40+ years ago. Following the RCBS line, Redding has a great reputation as well. You didn't mention if you were open to carbide or steel. If it's carbide, I'd chase down a set of Dillon dies (not easily done these days unless you're flush with cash), or once again fall back to my standard dies of choice, RCBS.

Murphy

[Stopsign32v]

I've been an RCBS fan from the beginning 40+ years ago. Following the RCBS line, Redding has a great reputation as well. You didn't mention if you were open to carbide or steel. If it's carbide, I'd chase down a set of Dillon dies (not easily done these days unless you're flush with cash), or once again fall back to my standard dies of choice, RCBS.

Murphy

Carbide for me

I wanted a RCBS set but couldn't find them anywhere in stock. :( So I settled for Lyman.

[Kraschenbirn]

Another vote for Dillon. Got my first set (.45 ACP), over 30 years ago and, since that time, added .38/357, .44 Spl/Mag, and 9mm 'cause I've found nothing better.

Bill

[Burnt Fingers]

Progressive press???


Dillon with a custom powder funnel for the win.

[sigep1764]

If I had my choice, all my dies would be Dillon or maybe Redding. Dillon's are super easy to clean. I am currently using Lee dies for 38 Special with an RCBS taper crimp die.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Used on A Lee Turret for 357 Mag.

1. Lee carbide size die
2. Lee PTED with 38 S&W expander (it's a bit larger)
3. RCBS seater with various Nose inserts
4. Lee Collet style FCD

I Like most Lee dies. Their Seaters work fine for J-words, but are troublesome for some boolit nose profiles. I'm not a fan of Lee's Carbide FCD.

[DAFzipper]

I like the RCBS cowboy dies. Designed to load cast bullets

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[Bazoo]

I use whatever I can get used when I need it. RCBS happens to be the majority of my dies, with 357 being one of them. The expander in my set measures large enough that it works with cast bullets. I don’t recall the exact size without looking.

Other calibers I have switched to noe expanders as I couldn’t get the factory expanders to be suitable, some in too small diameter and some in too short length.

[Nueces]

No company makes a die set that suits me, especially for fatter than usual cast bullets. So, I use an ala carte set for most calibers.

I have accumulated a range of carbide sizers and have measured the results of each on new brass. I select the one that gives me the least sizing for the bullet diameter I want. Dillons are often the chosen ones. The Dillons I have do a superb job without overworking the brass.

I like the Lyman M-die expander design, but, again, usually want diameters not on offer. So, the nod goes to the custom expanders from Buffalo Arms. I choose a base diameter about a thou under bullet diameter and a neck step about two thou over. With a gentle case neck internal debur, no further expansion is needed. Bullets snap into the necks and are held straight for seating. When that snap in fit gets difficult, it's time to anneal the necks.

I use Hornady sliding sleeve seating dies, factory if they work, or with lathe turned sleeves if more diameter is wanted.

Crimpers are Redding Profile, Dillon AccuCrimp or Lee collet crimpers, if available. Short cases like 45 Auto Rim or 38 S&W get whatever I have, generally RCBS or CH roll crimpers.

Yeah, it's a PITA and took years to figure all this out, but I greatly enjoy the results. My CAS 45 Colt loads look like factory rounds, straight brass, perfect crimps.

So, to address the posed question, for 38/357 SWC loads, I use a Dillon carbide sizer, Buffalo Arms expander, Hornady seater and Dillon AccuCrimp.

[Daekar]

I haven't tried any other options, but I got A Redding 3-die set in carbide and swapped the seating stem for a Redding flat-nose micrometer instead. I wish I had not waited so long to buy the micrometer stem, it is FAR easier, more repeatable, and doesn't damage the front of cast boolits like the factory stem can with certain profiles.

[farmbif]

I dont have Dillion dies so I can't comment about them, but I do have several other 357 die sets and for cast bullet loading I usually end up using the RCBS cowboy die set. they work very well for me.

[Stopsign32v]

I dont have Dillion dies so I can't comment about them, but I do have several other 357 die sets and for cast bullet loading I usually end up using the RCBS cowboy die set. they work very well for me.

I've read that the RCBS cowboy die set is nothing more than their normal die set prettied up.

[anothernewb]

I've pretty much switched to dillon for everything pistol. Swapping the profile insert was the deciding factor.

[Stopsign32v]

I've pretty much switched to dillon for everything pistol. Swapping the profile insert was the deciding factor.

What do you mean? You guys are really starting to make me wonder what I'm missing with $100+ Dillon dies.

[BeeMan]

I don't know about Dillon, but I replaced my RCBS 357 carbide die set with Hornady set more than a decade. No problems with cast or jacketed since then. And Hornady also helped me with the neck tension difference between cast and jacketed in 45 ACP by sending a second TiN sizer at no charge a few years ago. That said, if I need something oddball in terms of expanders for cast or powder through expanders, I visit the lathe and spin up exactly what I need. Oddball used dies picked up used are also handy for mix and match applications. At last count I had dies from 5 makers, plus several home turned specials.

[higgins]

When I started reloading many years ago my mentor told me to get Lyman dies for pistol cartridges and RCBS for rifle. At the time I didn't understand why (and he didn't explain), but after loading a ton of cast bullets in various pistol cartridges I now understand - it was because the Lyman dies came with the M-die.

Like Nueces, I've put together a couple of mixed die sets for particular purposes, however, if I were buying off-the-shelf die sets I would (and have) gotten Lyman for pistol cartridges and I've used RCBS, Lyman, and Lee die sets with satisfaction for rifle cartridges as long as I have an M-die added to the rifle sets for cast bullets.

[charlie b]

I've used a lot of Lee dies as well as some Lyman and RCBS.

I agree about the 'old' Lee FCD die for the .357. It is just another roll crimp die, IMHO.

But, they now have a collet type crimp die. As soon as I can find one I will buy it. The same type die works very well for rifles.

Sizing dies. If it is a carbide type then I'll use it. Don't really care which brand.

I use a Lee expander simply because I expand and charge powder on same station and the lee expander allows that. NOE has 'powder through' expander bushings shaped like the Lyman M if you are partial to that.

Lee seating die is nothing special. I'd pick a brand that is easy to clean if you are using lubed cast bullets.

[gwpercle]

I don't know if it's the BEST setup but in 1971 I bought a Ruger Blackhawk in 38 special/ 357 magnum and when I asked for reloading dies the shop owner gave me a set of RCBS marked 38 Special / 357 Magnum / SWC and I'm still using them with complete satisfaction . Steel sizing die does require lubrication but I don't mind that . Bought a Lee Carbide sizer but prefer the RCBS steel sizer .
I have loaded both 38 special and 357 magnum with the RCBS ... a few years ago I did buy a used old Lyman AA Turret press at a flea market and it came with a set of Lyman All American dies in 38/357 ... I set the Turret Press up as a dedicated 357 Magnum reloader with dies adjusted and set .
My other RCBS dies I keep set up for 38 Special .
I don't have any problem with the Lyman AA Dies , the set has a carbide sizer and it does just fine ... better than the Lee Carbide sizer ... but I don't know if the new Lyman Dies are like (as good as ) the older Lyman All American dies .
Just go with RCBS ... they should still be just fine !

The problem I have with the old Lee Carbide sizing die is it over sizes the cases down too much ... much too much for my needs ...it's like extra small base sizing die .
Gary

[anothernewb]

What do you mean? You guys are really starting to make me wonder what I'm missing with $100+ Dillon dies.

I like the how the dillon inserts swap. no need to readjust the die or remove it to swap from RN to FN etc. just pull a locking pin, swap the insert, and load on. Very easy to clean the dies without messing with the adjustments.
I've been really surprised that in 9mm. Loading my RN and HAP/XTP can swap with no die adjustment. maybe I'm just lucky with 3 profiles that happen to work well together I guess.

[358429]

The 357 collet crimp die is good for full length brass.

I really want one designed for 38 special. Lee precision told me that it's not possible, that the collet fingers need to be a certain length to function.

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[John Boy]

You’ll pay through the nose but CH4D dies are the best one can use

[Mk42gunner]

For .38/.357 loading, I think I have about three die sets (Herters, CH, RCBS) plus extra dies for a total of somewhere around 11 or 12 dies. They have all been used at one time or another.

I don't load on a progressive press any more, the closest I come to that is when I load up the Lyman turret press, and then I just run it like a single stage with the other dies already set up for load development.

If I were to start all over I would buy a set of Lyman dies (mainly for the M-die) and a separate Redding Profile Crimp die.

My most used bullet seating die is a CH Speed Seater since most of my boolits are flat nosed.

The sizer is usually either the carbide CH or RCBS.

I do not like the Lee powder through expander die, it may make sense on the Lee progressive presses, but I have never liked them.

Robert

[Stopsign32v]

If I were to start all over I would buy a set of Lyman dies (mainly for the M-die) and a separate Redding Profile Crimp die.

Robert

That is exactly what I have read on other revolver sites. I think this is the route I'm going to try (for now).

[Stopsign32v]

Well I got the Lyman carbide dies on the way and a single Redding profile crimp die.

[Mal Paso]

I've read that the RCBS cowboy die set is nothing more than their normal die set prettied up.

Except they are tailored to accommodate Lead Bullets which tend to be larger than jacketed.

I like the RCBS Cowboy Carbide sizer and expander but use a Hornady seater.

[JimB..]

Except they are tailored to accommodate Lead Bullets which tend to be larger than jacketed.

I like the RCBS Cowboy Carbide sizer and expander but use a Hornady seater.

Mal, I have never checked, do you know if the carbide sizing die is larger in the cowboy set? The expander is. I have the set but haven’t loaded with it in a couple years.

Stopsign32v, I have the redding profile crimp die. It’s a fine idea, taper crimp then roll, but I don’t find it any better than a roll crimp die. The big advantage is that it is separate, making die setup a little easier. Dies are not magic, if you want the best ammo you need to sort your brass and trim to a consistent length. I’m not a good enough shot for it to matter.

[dale2242]

I use the RCBS 3 die carbide set that came in the gray box with the spacer.
I roll crimp all my 38-357 rounds.

[robg]

i started with Lyman steel dies now i use lee with carbide sizing die ,both work well .just use the seat/crimp die no need for an extra crimp die.

[Mal Paso]

Mal, I have never checked, do you know if the carbide sizing die is larger in the cowboy set? The expander is. I have the set but haven’t loaded with it in a couple years.



The sizer was supposed to be larger but it was still a couple thousandths smaller than I wanted so I lapped it with diamond. RCBS was probably correct with their original size but I wanted to reduce the sizing to where the expander just belled the case and only confirmed the inside diameter where the bullet sits. The idea was to reduce over working the cases. I was getting about 30 reloads out of the cases. I have at least 25 more loads on 3,000 cases to tell if it worked.

Pistol brass seems to have about .002" elastic deformation, where it snaps back. Beyond that is plastic deformation where it stays that size less the elastic deformation. Hope I said that right.

[bedbugbilly]

I have Lee, Lyman and RCBS - a variety of dies because 38/357 is the cartridge I load most. All have worked just fine for many years for my cast - I load both BP and smokeless. If I could only have one set, it would be my RCBS - they have both a RN and a flat nose seating stem - I use them on a single stage press for batch loading - I have my Lee and Lyman sets set up on different turret plates for my Lee 4 hole turret.

That said - I seat and crimp in two different operations - BUT - regardless of what brand I use, I use the Lee FCD - I use them on all of my pistol calibers. I have never had an issue with the Lee expanding/powder thru die and I use it on my turret press with an adapter to mount a Lyman 55 measure to drop the charges - works fine - when loading on a single stage, I use another Lyman 55 mounted in a stand to drop the charges.

Everyone has their own preferences - there is no "best". As far as the Lee dies go - I own a variety of sets - my 38/357 set has loaded thousands of good cast rounds for many years - and like a Timex - they just keep on working.

[725]

When I have the money, REDDING.

[243winxb]

RCBS offers 650 special order die sets and 350 case form sets in the special order catalog. RCBS offers more than 1,000 other calibers, reloading die sets and case form sets. http://www.huntingtons.com/store/home.php

[imashooter2]

The proprietary set in the SDB.

[Papercidal]

I’ve got Dillon, Lee,& Rcbs dies in .357/.38 I prefer the Lee set (with the standard crimp die not the factory crimp) a lot. The Dillon set is almost as good for twice the price (their crimp die works really well on cast bullets without a crimp groove).
RCBS dies are on the shelf and readily available normally and that’s about all that they have going for them.

[Char-Gar]

Ok....you asked for it....38 Special is my all time favorite of mine with the 357 close behind. I use a number of dies for different purposes.
I load nothing but cast bullets.

Sizing dies: 1956 RCBS FL sizing die (steel) for 38 Special and 1961 RCBS FL sizing die again steel.

Expanding dies: Lyman 310 expanders (with thread adapter) in .357 and .358. RCBS special long .3585 expander for HB wadcutters and a RCBS .356 expander I had modified on a lathe longer reach for solid base wadcutters.

Seating dies: Lyman seating die with RN seating plug and another that I have turned dead flat for use with a WC or SWC or any other bullet with a flat spot on the nose.

Crimping: A RCBS seating die with the seating plug removed. Another RCBS taper crimp die and for fun an old Belding and Mull hand seating die.

I have never found one set of dies that meet my needs.

[JimB..]

Thanks Mal!

[DonHowe]

Carbide for me

I wanted a RCBS set but couldn't find them anywhere in stock. :( So I settled for Lyman.

I have used various brands of dies but for loading cast bullets in handgun/straight wall cases I actually prefer Lyman.

[Walks]

I've read that the RCBS cowboy die set is nothing more than their normal die set prettied up.

Yep

I have Lyman, RCBS, Redding, C-H dies. Even 2 sets of Lee I was gifted and a .32S&W that I bought.
For Lead bullets in Handguns the Lyman M-Die Expander is the Best , Period. Just about any Good seat/crimp die will work for seating/crimping a Keith bullet.
The Lee fcd is An Abomination. It will size down the seated bullet and make it rattle through the bore like a penny in a glass pickle jar.
If ya wanna a Perfect roll crimp, get a Redding Profile Crimp Die.
Just about any Taper Crimp die works OK, I like RCBS or Lyman the best.
As far as sizing goes, Tungsten Carbide is good for speed and lack of mess.
The Lee TC sizer die goes too far.
I get a bit better accuracy from cases sized in a steel sizer. But only if ya wanna squeeze the last bit of accuracy out of a cartridge.

If I were to buy a new die set for Lead bullets,
I'd start with Lyman.

[PhatForrest]

The proprietary set in the SDB.

+1

The SDB just cranks out good ammo, with no drama.

[dverna]

I realize this thread might not go anywhere since a lot of people think a set of dies are pretty much a set of dies. But I figured I'd make it anyways.

I'm looking for the "best" die setup for my 38/357 reloading. Right now I'm using the LEE dies and honestly cannot stand them. The expander die is utter trash and the factory crimp die is somewhat of an on/off switch. Time to graduate to better things...

So what is your opinion of the best setup?

Right now I have a set of Lyman Carbide 3 die setup on the way and I've read on the S&W forums that people seem to think the Redding profile crimp die is so good that it's worth ordering by itself...

IMO, you are overthinking it. I certainly would not invest in the Redding crimp die unless I found an issue with the Lyman die...and that is very unlikely. I started with Lyman and the set I had worked well, but that was nearly 50 years ago.

I do not have Lee pistol dies so no experience if they are "trash" but if you got a bad set they will make it good.

Are you having accuracy or chambering issues that are causing you to invest in something better?

[cupajoe]

I don't need anything special as far as dies for loading 357 magnum or any handgun caliber. My cast bullets are sized the same as jacketed for the caliber or maybe .001" larger. I have used RCBS and Dillon dies with success. I do use an "m type expander" purchased from member lathesmith. I like "easy".

[greenjoytj]

My first 357M/38SPL die set had a Lyman carbide sizer. I didn’t like the fact that a carbide sizer reduces the whole length of the case above the solid case head. Creates weird looking wasp waisted finished cartridges.
I have since discovered Redding Dual Ring Sizing dies and now use this type for 357M and another for 38 SPL. The dual rings size like solid steel sizing dies.
Redding recommends case lube with these dual carbide ring dies, so knowing what I know now, I bought Redding old fashion solid steel sizing die sets for 45 Colt and 45 ACP. If I must lube the cases I may as well use the cheaper solid steel die sets. Lubing the case made sizing much easier in the carbide die sizer. I load on a single stage Lee Classic Cast press.
So to answer the OP question I think the Redding Dual Ring Carbide sizer die with a micrometer head retrofitted to the Redding bullet seating die along with a LEE collet style Factory crimp die make a great eclectic die set. For some unknown reason the Redding crimp die always likes to shave off a hair thick ring of brass from the case mouth.

[Daekar]

I generally purchase Redding dies, carbide if I can get them. They have been uniformly high quality, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another set for a bottlenecked cartridge. I have never been that pleased with the crimp/seat die for 357mag though... the seating is wonderful now that I put a micrometer stem in there, but the crimp part seems to either do nothing or shave little hairlike lines of brass off of the case. Given the fact that 357mag brass seems to never wear out, that really bugs me.

I just picked up a Lee Collet Crimp die, and I don't think I will ever use the Redding die to crimp again. I don't usually worry about maxing out my production rate since I enjoy the single stage process, so eliminating frustration with a separate step is no big deal to me.

[sniper]

I have used the RCBS dies for many decades and have never had a problem with them. You can use your Lee dies to seat the bullets and the RCBS to crimp in a separate step.

:cool: RCBS has always been good for me! And now their expander dies have an "M" style step for easier boolit seating.