Svarog Slugs...

[44Blam]

Welp, they are pretty effective...

Svarog slugs:
288939

We shot a bit of gelatin with ONE round and got this mess:
288940

Tried to put it back together to see what it actually did:
288941

[lavenatti]

Looks like your squirrels don't stand a chance.

I have a bunch of these I'm going to start loading today, what powder/charge did you use? I was thinking of starting with 30 grains of Longshot.

[Blood Trail]

I deed they do work. I believe I loaded up to 35-38 grs of longshot with mine.

The load my son used to kill his buck with a few years ago was 30 grs of longshot running 1250 fps.


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[44Blam]

Looks like your squirrels don't stand a chance.

I have a bunch of these I'm going to start loading today, what powder/charge did you use? I was thinking of starting with 30 grains of Longshot.

30 grains works pretty well. I am using a Fiocci hull with the BRP-12 wad screwed on.
I got the following velocities in a 5 shot group with a lab radar:
1379 1389 1382 1385 1387

Shot out of a Mossberg 590 with a 20" barrel.

I've shot 33 to 35 grain and the 33s are in the 1450 or so range but the labradar was cranky that day and wasn't picking them up consistently. I didn't get a read on the 35 grain round I shot but it had very pronounced recoil.

[lavenatti]

1250 fps is good enough for me. Was that the buck in the video with the heart all blown apart?

[Blood Trail]

1250 fps is good enough for me. Was that the buck in the video with the heart all blown apart?

Yes, but with a similar design slug (the botfly). I’ve found that the Botfly, Kontrava, twister, and svarog pretty much load the same and share very similar accuracies.


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[lavenatti]

Good to know, they all do look similar. So far I just have the sveroboy and the shot-mini. After I try these out I'll probably pick up a few more.

I loaded some of the shot-minis over 17.5 grains of rex-1, they look like great pumpkin busters but I'm not sure I'd want to use them on deer.

[JAMESGR]

Are y'all shooting these slugs through a rifled barrel or smooth bore?????
Thanks
JAMES
JAMESGR

[Blood Trail]

Are y'all shooting these slugs through a rifled barrel or smooth bore?????
Thanks
JAMES
JAMESGR

Both, but mainly rifled.


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[44Blam]

Are y'all shooting these slugs through a rifled barrel or smooth bore?????
Thanks
JAMES
JAMESGR

Smooth bore. I'm getting groups in the 4-6" range at 50 yards. Most likely operator error. I have been screwing the slug to the wad and have not seen one go in sideways so I think I'm getting good stability.

[JAMESGR]

Anyone shooting the 20 ga version of this slug????????
Thanks
JAMES
JAMESGR

[Petander]

Anyone shooting the 20 ga version of this slug????????
Thanks
JAMES
JAMESGR

I just ordered one in 20, can't help. Got the 12 already.

See this post by Blood Trail:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?430974-Black-verses-20-ga-Sh-Sh-slug

[44Blam]

Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xg_z61SyDU

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/J4kmMznX/IMG-20211005-WA0002.jpg

Got my 20 yesterday. Not perfect slugs yet but this mold just needs its own technique to cast with. Like any other special mold.

[Blood Trail]

https://i.postimg.cc/J4kmMznX/IMG-20211005-WA0002.jpg

Got my 20 yesterday. Not perfect slugs yet but this mold just needs its own technique to cast with. Like any other special mold.

See if this helps:

https://youtu.be/KD6LX20br_w


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[Petander]

See if this helps:

https://youtu.be/KD6LX20br_w


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Thank you,this demonstrates the technique very well.

I had fillout problems but now it's going better. Need my Pro Melt full for good pressure - and now that I gave the mold another brakekleen / Fairy -wash... I noticed my first cleaning had left some oil around... surprisingly tough oil here!

Some tin might help but so does 800° F.

[longbow]

You might also try loosening the sprue plate if it is tight. I have found that with precisely machined moulds like Mihec's that the sprue plate sits so flat and precise that air cannot vent out easily if the sprue plate is too snug. I like my sprue plates to be just tight enough not to swing under their own weight.

I also put a tiny bevel on the top edges of the mating mould blocks to help venting. This bevel is just barely breaking the sharp edge.

Both have helped with fillout issues for me.

Longbow

[elvas]

Putting a Gualandi Over-Powder Wad (actually a card disc)
http://www.gualandi.it/en/products_discs_pads_various_items/white_over_powder_pads.html
under the Bior-Pallettoni 20mm wad
http://www.gualandi.it/en/products_plastic_wads/bior_pallettoni.html
strengthens the base of the wad and improves accuracy by preventing blowby gases destroying this fragile wad, at least this is my experience.

[longbow]

I'm guessing you use a 16 ga. or 20 ga. over powder card wad so it fits into the gas seal?

Assuming 12 ga. wad.

Longbow

[Petander]

See if this helps:

https://youtu.be/KD6LX20br_w


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Oh I forgot:

On the video, he is whacking that mold so much ...

There's no need for that. After cutting the sprue, you can turn the slug loose by hand turning the pin, then put the slug/pin combo in the other (pin removal) position and again, no need for whacking & banging around. Just remove the pin.

Then open the mold and the slug falls out.

I always use a clean mold, no release agents whatsoever.

[elvas]

12 gauge card under the 12 gauge wad (between powder and plastic wad).

[longbow]

Okay... I would have thought that would damage the lips of the gas seal.

Ajay used to recommend an over powder card wad under the plastic wad too but I am pretty sure he went with a small gauge so it fit inside the gas seal.

Anyway, good info and something I will have to try. I have had some wads that showed gas seal failure so that over powder wad may solve it.

Thanks.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Oh I forgot:

On the video, he is whacking that mold so much ...

There's no need for that. After cutting the sprue, you can turn the slug loose by hand turning the pin, then put the slug/pin combo in the other (pin removal) position and again, no need for whacking & banging around. Just remove the pin.

Then open the mold and the slug falls out.

I always use a clean mold, no release agents whatsoever.

I could never release the slug by hand turning without damaging the slug or it just not coming out at all.

I’d love to see how you do it if it’s easier.


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[Blood Trail]

Here’s another video that may show it a little better (for those who have Facebook):

https://www.facebook.com/leon.guthrie/videos/10208716278539966/


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[Petander]

Fills better with a full pot, more pouring pressure.

Still some bad ones. But many good one,too.

https://i.postimg.cc/vBMWb1sF/IMG-20211008-WA0000.jpg

[longbow]

Those look very nice to me! Plus the blue PC looks good and seems to suit slugs.

Now we need to see a range report with pics of destroyed ballistic gelatin, wet phone books or newspaper, or whatever you've got!

I guess an accuracy report would be good too... you have to be able to hit it to destroy it!

Longbow

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/02Lkd6P1/IMG-20211008-WA0003.jpg

[longbow]

Ah yes! I hadn't even noticed. The blue ones have a little of that too now that II look harder. That small band looks like it is a problem to fill out.

Assuming the mould is good and clean I'd say more heat in both mould and lead and especially the core pin should help. Core pins are hard to keep hot unless you can cast quickly and steadily. At least for moulds I have though none are quite like this. I pre-heat my moulds until the sprue plate lube just starts to smoke and the core pin has to be pre-heated as well.

Not sure how fast your pot squirts lead out but that is one of the reasons I went back to ladle pouring for large slugs and boolits... I couldn't get the lead in the mould fast enough for good fillout using my Lee pot. My ladle holds about a pound of lead and I can pour it as fast as it will go through the sprue hole. That worked for me.

Is the mould well vented? Seems to me from pics I've seen they are so not likely a venting issue but worth checking that vent grooves are clear.

Longbow

[Petander]

I might try ladle one day, it"s been a while.

I have maxed out the volume from Pro Melt, it works best when the mold is touching the valve. Pot full. Max heat.

But of course this is no Mihec, gotta accept the fact. I'm spoiled withe Micec, NOE etc...

Anyway, the reject rate is acceptable now.

[Petander]

Anyway, the reject rate is acceptable now.

I have to disagree with myself after all.

I took a look at my 12 gauge "Zveroboy" slugs from a couple of years back and they are perfect. This 20 Zveroboy is my fifth Svarog mold, there has been no problems before.

Too many rejects.

[Petander]

An update:

This mold just needed the longest break-in ever. I'm getting good fillout now, after some 15 casting sessions. I did the preheat cycles too and good cleaning. That grease really sticks.

But anyway, it's working now.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Petander: what is teh diameter of the driving bands on your 21 ga Slugs? before and after PC?

Randy

[Petander]

Petander: what is teh diameter of the driving bands on your 21 ga Slugs? before and after PC?

Randy

As cast the front band is .629" and the two rear bands are .620. PC:d front band is .633 with Smoke's Carolina Blue. Pink gives me .631".

I have not loaded any yet, I may be getting suitable wads from Siarm one day. They are on their way.My friend is working on these and a rifled barrel 870. Size looks right.

But this particular Svarog is for smoothbore really, we have the AS version ordered , it has wider bands.

My alloy is bullet alloy here, I only have one pot (why ?) and I didn't bother to change to pure for these. Not yet. Only 870 and cyl / IC maybe. Must check the feel. These can not be pushed through any of my older double gun 1/2 chokes. Not to mention full.

But this mold really made a record breaking in time. Now it is good.


https://i.postimg.cc/QxG4YYz1/IMG-20211023-WA0003.jpg

[W.R.Buchanan]

How about OD of the 12 ga slugs? "21" was a typo.

Randy

[Petander]

How about OD of the 12 ga slugs? "21" was a typo.

Randy

Oh I thought you mean the 20 gauge Zveroboys I have in this thread.

My fullbore 12s are generally .729-730, I only have one 12 gauge, a cylinder Benelli M3. 18" rifle sights. Why do you ask?

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is one of the few slugs I am interested in. It is pretty obvious that it would make a mess out of whatever it hits. And there in lies my interest. I have Lee slugs, Mihec/Lyman, Round /Balls and some Russian Paradox slugs yet to be loaded. I also have the STI Sabot Slug with both lead and brass inserts which has proven to be the most accurate one out there.

If these were accurate in a rifled barrel I could use them as Defensive Loads. or for Classes.

Randy

[Petander]

I see. Someone here must shoot Zveroboy in a rifled 12...?

AS molds have a wider belted version,too, the ,"sh-sh"... ,(some names!) It's not exactly the same as Svarog Zveroboy.

I ordered AS Grizzly ( 20 gauge ) for my friend's rifled barrel because of its wide belts.

So many choices...

Oh: I get decent accuracy with my "economy RB:s" in my 20 gauge ,870. My friend's similar 870 hates that load... often the only way to know is to try.

[longbow]

Randy:

Check with BT, he has said good things about the Twister slug which is similar but seemingly "The most lethal model of our slug molds!" is stated on AS-Molds site. There are 3 or 4 slugs of similar design:

- SH-SH (same as Zveroboy I think)
- Grizzly shock
- Twister
- Botfly

Now I am thinking BT said good things about the Botfly slug... or maybe Botfly and Twister... I'm confused! In any case these are all pretty similar design so if fit to bore is good and they all screw onto brush wads I'd figure they would all be similar accuracy.

Looks like the Botfly is the lightest of the bunch.

Longbow

[Petander]

Let me add to the confusion:

Amongst other little differences,AS slugs SH-SH and Twister have two bands while Zveroboy has three.

My Zveroboys here,got two pins.

https://i.postimg.cc/T3mNLtdM/IMG-20211109-WA0003.jpg

[longbow]

Right you are! I hadn't noticed that detail but then I haven't really looked at the Zveroboy slug much.

I had originally thought AS and Svarog were the same moulds sold through different vendors but apparently not. They just have similar slug designs.

Does anyone know why there has been so much interest in slug designs and slug mould production in Russia?

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Svarog sent the Zverboy mold when it first came out. Pain in the **** to cast, but pretty darn accurate from my testing.

I got just about every slug mold from AS and Svarog. All of the slug that don’t require the Azot or Kontrava wad are pretty much the same in terms of accuracy and how I load them in regards to data.


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[longbow]

BT:

Do you have a favourite or are they all good and just sort of different flavours?

I am thinking about the slugs that use screw on wads mostly like the Twister, Botfly, Grizzly shock, Zveroboy/SH-SH.

I'm still a smoothbore guy but thinking I should spring for one of the Mossberg combo deals with gun and spare barrel or two. There is a good deal on a two barrel combo that comes with a rifled barrel and scope for $549.00 CDN. A cantilever rifled barrel alone is $399.00 last time I looked, then you need the scope. I'd rather go with rifle sights but those barrels seem rare. I think one of the three barrel combos may come with rifle sights. They run $600.00+.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

BT:

Do you have a favourite or are they all good and just sort of different flavours?

I am thinking about the slugs that use screw on wads mostly like the Twister, Botfly, Grizzly shock, Zveroboy/SH-SH.

I'm still a smoothbore guy but thinking I should spring for one of the Mossberg combo deals with gun and spare barrel or two. There is a good deal on a two barrel combo that comes with a rifled barrel and scope for $549.00 CDN. A cantilever rifled barrel alone is $399.00 last time I looked, then you need the scope. I'd rather go with rifle sights but those barrels seem rare. I think one of the three barrel combos may come with rifle sights. They run $600.00+.

Longbow

Brother, you’ve been saying u gonna get a rifled barrel since we’ve met. [emoji16]

If you could only get one mold, get the Twister with the 3 (botfly), 4 (Zverboy), 5, and 6 petal Center pins. You’ll cover all your bases there.


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[longbow]

Yeah I know! What I really want is an H&H Paradox gun but at £130,000.00 I will be saving for quite some time!! Like forever! The Mossberg is a bit more in my league so maybe... I'm an old retired guy living off savings these days so toy money is scarce especially since I need new hearing aids. Now those don't come cheap! Not as much as a Paradox gun but shockingly expensive!

For now I'll play with the toys I have and we'll see what the future holds!

I do like the screw on brush wad idea so if I buy one of these Russian moulds it'll likely be the Twister as you suggest.

Thanks,
Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Leon: What is the OD on the Driving Bands of those 12 ga. slugs?

LB: I think you would be disappointed in the performance of those paradox guns compared to the ones we are shooting now. and You could sane about $129,500 in the deal.

I haven't seen anyone outside our group here doing much in the realm of accuracy from shotgun slugs that is above anything we've been able to accomplish here.

Some of the groups that have been posted here are well above anything else out there. Leon and Hogtamer have both posted groups that rival Rifle groups at 100 yards but with bullets that are 500 grains plus! Even my feeble efforts have produced results that are pretty damn good. See Pic. First two were shot offhand at 50 yards from a M500 smooth bore and the last one was from the A5 with Hastings Rifled Barrel.

For the intended purposes of these slugs, it doesn't get much better than that.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

You are right! However, a guy likes what he likes! Properly fed Paradox guns were supposed to keep all rounds from both barrels within a 5" square at 100 yards. That's pretty good for slugs and very good for a double barreled anything. However, at £130,000.00 (that is $174,362.41 US dollars) There isn't one in my future unless I win a really, really big lottery... I mean really big!

I've always wanted a double rifle or Preferably a Paradox gun but about the only one I can afford might be a Kodiak/Pedersoli. Even that is above my fun budget!

I guess I'll stick with the good 'ol Mossberg Slugster until that lottery win comes along.

I do have to get the rifled choke tube adaptor mounted on my old single shot to try that and if successful then I would install it on the smoothbore Slugster barrel. If not then I may just break down and buy a rifled gun. I am resisting but weakening!

What I really have to do is get to the range and shoot some of the many varieties of slugs I have loaded now! I have 5 or 6 different slugs loaded mostly in groups of 10 for testing. Most are slugs I have shot before but with added tailwads. My Moose Minie clone is also on the list. Sfter watching the Taofledermaus video I am curious how my clone will shoot.

Longbow

[Petander]

Svarog Paradox here.

I like loading with these proprietary wads. And I like the nose. This slug also shoots quite accurate out of my short smoothbore. Makes big holes in 5 mm steel... medium hard alloy... I know I should group and test and report more!

https://i.postimg.cc/pLDN55yD/IMG-20211111-WA0001.jpg

[longbow]

I can't tell in your pic whether that Azot wad has the little tabs on the cushion.

The new red wads don't have the tabs but I'm pretty sure some of the Azot/proprietary wads had those tabs. The old Gualandi DGS wads had them.

In some cases they cause skirt distortion.

When did they disappear on the Azot wads?

Longbow

[Petander]

I can't tell in your pic whether that Azot wad has the little tabs on the cushion.

The new red wads don't have the tabs but I'm pretty sure some of the Azot/proprietary wads had those tabs. The old Gualandi DGS wads had them.

In some cases they cause skirt distortion.

When did they disappear on the Azot wads?

Longbow

Tabs? Now you lost me. What tabs where?

Svarog site has a bad red wad pic but they look the same as my white, with those four legs. Why is it that so many sites have horrible pics of their wads?

[longbow]

Gualandi DGS slugs with "tabs" on cushion leg:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/mobile/12ga-DGS-12-Slug-25_pak/productinfo/0721612/

I'm pretty sure I've seen the Azot wads with the same tabs.

The Gualandi's I recovered showed skirt distortion from those tabs.

Longbow

[longbow]

A picture is worth a thousand words:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?423884-Question-on-Cast-Slugs/page3

your post #53 shows minor distortion over the tabs.

Vettepilot's pics in post #98 show the Azot wads with tabs and without.

I'll see if I still have the Gualandi slugs with distorted skirts. If so I'll post a pic.

Longbow

[Petander]

Unfired Paradox on top.

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0np957s/IMG-20211111-WA0005.jpg

[longbow]

Yes, those look like the new wad design or at least not with tabs!

Here are the pics of the recovered Gualandi slug. I had more but could only find one with wad still attached and one that was flattened sideways after impact so not much use. I'm sure I had at least two like this one but...

https://i.postimg.cc/26HJGjxX/20211111-161022.jpg (https://postimg.cc/ft9BTNpx)
Directly over one tab.

https://i.postimg.cc/Fz76BtWF/20211111-161046.jpg (https://postimg.cc/8fgw7Ygx)
Directly over other tab.

https://i.postimg.cc/fLWpYSY9/20211111-161115.jpg (https://postimg.cc/GBNXC27L)
At 90° to tabs.

Coincidental? I don't think so but it is only one slug.

These were factory Gualandi slugs with wads attached supplied as reloading components.

Not sure if Svarog bought Gualandi wads originally or if they copied them but it appears they have changed the cushion leg. Gualandi brush wads still have the tabs on the cushion leg but it shouldn't affect any of the flat based Russian slugs that use the screw on method. The tabs do seem to be detrimental to the thin skirt slugs HB though.

Longbow

[Blood Trail]

Unfired Paradox on top.

https://i.postimg.cc/Y0np957s/IMG-20211111-WA0005.jpg

How hard you seating them on the wad? The unfired actually looks fired.


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[Cap'n Morgan]

That slug folded like a concertina, but still maintained a symmetric shape!
The designer might as well skip the grooves completely, and go for a straight wall design.

[W.R.Buchanan]

What is the diameter of that slug after it was fired? If it was .729 to start it obviously got shoved thru a choke or something?

Still want the OD of the Driving Bands on the Botfly Slugs ?

Randy

[Petander]

How hard you seating them on the wad? The unfired actually looks fired.


That one in the pic actually is a reject, I pressed it so hard that the slug skirt cracked. I normally leave a small gap, can't seat them completely in.


What is the diameter of that slug after it was fired? If it was .729 to start it obviously got shoved thru a choke or something?


.726-.727. Benelli M3 cyl 18".

[Petander]

https://i.postimg.cc/50YxQgXf/IMG-20211114-091127-670.jpg

[longbow]

One of them shrunk!?!

[Petander]

One of them shrunk!?!

Yes I quenched that one in cold water.

[centershot]

Longbow,
If your barrel will accept tubes, get a rifled choke tube and see wat it does for you. I recently picked up a Carlson's extended rifled tube for my smoothbore 870. I tried my sabot loads through it with a variety of chokes but couldn't keep the balls on the paper at 50 yds. Best I could do was a 4" group at 25 yds. with the modified tube in place. With the rifled tube that same load gave me 2-1/2" to 3" groups at 50 yds, almost as good as my rifled barrel on my Mossberg 500. I was thrilled! The only ammo that grouped well in that gun was Remington Sluggers and Federal TruBalls, the full speed stuff. My sabot runs 1300 fps, so much easier to shoot! If your barrel's threaded, give it a try, you might be really happy !

[longbow]

Therein lies the problem! None of my shotguns are threaded for choke tubes.

Last time I checked cost to team and thread was $180! A rifled barrel is $389! A brand new Mossberg 2 barrel combo with fully rifled barrel is $549.

I'd buy a new two barrel combo before I paid $389 for just a barrel.

I do have a silver solder on choke tube adapter that I have not gotten installed yet and a rifled choke tube. I do have to get that done.

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

I watched a YouTube video the other day of a guy (Buffalo's Outdoors) shooting a Beretta Extrema 2 ( .732 bore) with a Carlson rifled choke.
The shells were Federal Power Shock, and the result was pretty impressive - to put it mildly!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzWKjhWyxpw&t=543s&ab_channel=Buffalo%27sOutdoors

For less than fifty buck you'll be up an running once you get a threaded bushing on your barrel.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Carlson Rifled Choke Tube $54 (L) IC Choke Tube (R)

Randy

[longbow]

That is pretty impressive accuracy! Especially for a rifled choke tube. I have read pros and cons of rifled choke tube but came to the conclusion that if they worked well there would not be so many rifled barrels around. Faulty logic? Maybe.

It took Fosbery some time and lots of testing to come up with the Paradox rifling for his guns marketed by H&H. He used ratchet rifling in a choked muzzle that gave quite a squeeze down on those big Paradox bullets. I have had trouble finding info on the rifling twist Fosbery used and have read 1:38" to 1:72" or slower. Since the slugs were not much longer than they are in diameter a slowish twist of 1:72" or so should be plenty to stabilize them. A 12 bore ball wants about 1:120" twist which would also be right for a "square" cylindrical slug.

In any case, several years ago I made a rifling machine to make rifled choke tubes up to about 6" long. I tested it on a piece of steel 3/4" pipe and it worked just fine. I posted that here with pics but may have deleted then due to lack of space. I bought a blank choke tube then bored it to 0.690" and proceeded to rifle it. Unfortunately these new choke tubes are heat treated stainless steel which work hardens. I got rifling started but the cutter just wasn't up to cutting the SS fast enough/deep enough per cut to avoid the work hardening so rifling wasn't progressing. I remade the cutter to a hook type single tooth cutter which worked much better but... it caught, jammed and pulled the choke tube out of time without me realizing it so once unjammed I munched the rifling I had started. After that life got in the way and the choke tube dropped in priority. I have as yet to get back to it. My intent was to make a deep rifled narrow land slow twist choke tube of 1:72" twist to better suit full bore round balls and square slugs. Modern rifled choke tubes run about 1:36"/1:38" so fast for round ball and very shallow rifling.

Not arguing that Buffalo's Outdoors choke tube didn't work, just that if they were all that good we wouldn't be seeing so many fully rifled barrels.

That and my goal was to try to reproduce the Paradox idea so the gun is suitable for slugs, buckshot or birdshot by just changing a choke tube rather than having a specialized rifled barrel. If I had a gun threaded for choke tubes I would have tried this long ago. However, toy money was/is tight so I have been playing with the toys I have... or that I can make.

To try to get back on topic here, many of the Russian slugs are groove diameter so should shoot just fine from a rifled barrel (or maybe rifled choke tube) without a wad attached. Why wouldn't they? The only benefit I see for those and an attached wad is that you load a single unit of wad and slug whether screwed on like Svarog Zveroboy or press in like the Gualandi clone or Paradox.

So far I don't recall seeing any range testing of the Russian slugs without attached wads in rifled bore or rifled choke tube. Would a Zveroboy shoot well from rifled barrel with no attached wad?

I still like the idea of a smoothbore that will give me +/- 6" groups at 100 yards. That is good enough for me and it makes for a versatile gun that can handle slugs, Tri-Ball, buckshot or birdshot. A screw in choke tube that would give that or better 100 yard accuracy would be the next choice as all it takes is to change choke tube to go from slug to shot. A fully rifled barrel is more "specialized" and not high on my list of wants. However, a new Mossberg 2 or 3 barrel combo that included a rifled barrel isn't a huge investment so... maybe!

In the meantime I'll keep playing with my smoothbores and may have to add a Russian slug mould or two to my collection.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kent: the rifled choke tubes are a relatively new thing, and fully rifled barrels are much older. What is new about Rifled Barrels are the prices they are fetching. I paid $ 175 for my Hastings Barrel for my A5 and $125 for my Buck Special Smoothbore Barrel for that gun.

I also paid $125 for the 24" Rifled Barrel for my M500's. This was about 2 years ago for all of them, adn there was no scarcity of them back then. Now the Hastings Barrels for A5's are $375-500! and the Mossberg Barrels are $250 to 300. So interest in them has grown dramatically and I would suspect that "US" and Taofledermous have had some influence on that. There are lots of people who are "read only" members of this site, and I see them as contributing to the scarcity of these barrels as well.

I just missed a M500 18" Smoothbore Barrel with Rifle Sights last week that went for $174 on Gunbroker. I paid @$100 for the one I have and then spent another $150 getting it "Vang Comped.!" I haven't seen one of those on Ebay for some time.

Randy

[longbow]

I haven't quite given up on smoothbore yet! Still slogging away.

The Russian slugs are pretty interesting and I may just have to get a mould or two. The Svarog sources I see tend to be a bit more pricey than AS-Moulds but I'd have to look at all the extras and shipping a little closer to be sure. Seems to me at least one site I looed at the Svarog moulds were free shipping.

I am liking the idea of screw on brush wads like the Zveroboy but I think I'd rather have a solid. BT recommended the Twister with all pins and if it has a "solid" pin (has to be HP for the screw) rather than segmented I guess I'd go that route.

In all honesty I have been a COVID hermit and haven't been out shooting for some time. Haven't done much outside the house and property for some time! I need to get a slug fix soon!

I have quite a few slugs loaded for testing so just have to get toit. I have also been thinking of trying the brush wads screw onto one of my slugs like the Nessler. I can drill through the slug then run a screw in from the nose more or less Svarog style I could also do base pour with an HP for the screw.

A benefit of the Russian slugs is that they supposedly work out of both smoothbore and rifled gun.

Yeah... you guys in the States get a lot more options especially for used guns and accessories. I saw a good deal a while ago on a used Remington Super Slug gun complete with scope but that was about the time you talked me into the Mossberg... not that I'm blaming you for a missed fully rifled slug gun, I do actually like the Mossberg so have been keeping my eyes open for good used deals. Not much to be had in Canada right now that I've found anyway. The best deal I see if the Mossberg two or three barrel combos new. It's hard to argue about a new gun with two barrels (one rifled) for $549.00 CDN. I think I'd prefer the three barrel combo though and for another hundred bucks... Well, Christmas is coming, time to start a list!

Longbow

[Petander]

Got some wads from Svarog today.

20 gauge "brush wad" is not foolproof with Zveroboy, I'm still going to drill pilot holes to make sure they center. You can see the yellow one is sitting crooked, I just quickly screwed them on by hand for the pic.

12 gauge "Azot" wads are perfect, they snap on with bare fingers and leave no gap like the old white ones.

https://i.postimg.cc/jd5wFg3T/IMG-20211119-171500-934.jpg

[longbow]

Those look nice! The slugs are bright enough you can probably see them like tracers!

I like the screw on brush wads. I'll have to try that. My Nessler Balle clone is a good candidate for those wads.

Is there a pin for Zveroboy or Twister moulds that makes just HP for the screw but no segments?

Longbow

[Petander]

Is there a pin for Zveroboy or Twister moulds that makes just HP for the screw but no segments?

Longbow

My 12 gauge Zveroboy has a HP pin. My 20 gauge Zveroboy is only segmented. AS "grizzly" is almost like Zveroboy HP...I think... soon will see.

[longbow]

Hmmmm... I don't really want or need the segmented version though it seems to work for those who use it, like BT. Seems to me that a "solid" slug is quite adequate. Zveroboy, Twister or Grizzly (or Grizzly shock to get both pins) suits me fine if I have an HP pin. The 6 segment must make a mess of melons or pumpkins so that does have its merits but mostly I'd just want a "solid" screw on wad slug.

I do like the screw on wad idea and on that note while I was looking for other info I found an old thread where Elvas had drilled through Lyman sabot slugs and used the screw on brush wads quite successfully.

It is a good idea! First I saw it was for Svarog Zveroboy.

Longbow

[Petander]

Zveroboy 20 gauge first test batch. These are not "premium" quality cast but from my earlier sessions. Good for some velo / pressure basic check.

I will see with 870 cylinder and / or rifled choke first.

https://i.postimg.cc/pVFBN55y/IMG-20211120-063401-129.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/RVVKSggs/IMG-20211120-084912-397.jpg

[Petander]

Starting low,these went 1200 fps.

https://i.postimg.cc/J4cGDSkX/IMG-20211120-WA0005.jpg

Some chrono shots hit the steel trap back there on the left. Gave me some hope.

I then went and fired seven shots @ 25 meters, standing.

https://i.postimg.cc/7ZKhX7XY/IMG-20211120-WA0004.jpg

Keyholing? Or do they break on impact , target is cardboard,not paper. I had an even milder load to start with, bad vertical spread there. I need to verify my wad pilot hole centering... notice the cork at 6 o' clock.

Anyway. To be continued,possibly on a new thread.


Edit:

Oh and this is Carlsons rifled choke. It was on so I figured I might as well start with it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'd say those are pretty encouraging results.

Rifle Sights on the gun might help a little and Williams makes ones that clamp on to you Vent Rib. I used them on my gun.

Randy

[Petander]

1500 fps today:

https://i.postimg.cc/V6zF15Sj/IMG-20211121-140709-373.jpg

I fired five rds @ 25 meters again. Kneeled position. Back was hurting like hell, I did something wrong in the morning... but I started thinking about our Winter War against Russia and shooting went ok.

This load also adjusted itself to the POI:

https://i.postimg.cc/Kcw0VP7T/IMG-20211121-130828.jpg

Randy, I have a red dot:

https://i.postimg.cc/wjKbtX7z/IMG-20211121-125840.jpg

To be continued. I may be on the "Sweet Spot" already but 1700 fps is tempting... only 350 grain slug.

[W.R.Buchanan]

So 470 MPS is @1550 fps? I'd be pretty happy with those results.

What you have going on right now with that gun is pretty damn good. You've got a Carlson's Rifled Choke Tube which is performing well,,, Time to go out farther and see what happens at 50-75 Yards/Meters.

Also the quality of your slugs and subsequent reloads will improve as well.

I think you are on your way to One Hole Accuracy!

Randy

[longbow]

That is looking very good!

[Petander]

Yes bench & 50 meters next.

I'll hold my horses about more velocity for now. Stars are aligned pretty good here.

I wonder what velocity Blood Trail is using with his AS -version?

EDIT: Found it:


The 20 ga won. This isn’t a fast, blazing load. Only moving at a little over 1200 fps, it easily dispatched this brute.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/ee3ab16ae33ab2be8f0afcef2d5ba405.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210909/8c139d672a303a7b6ce3e56c82bb593b.jpg

[Keith]

I have the Paradox mold with the 3 inserts. I used the one that gives a pin sticking out in the base of the slug for the wad to fit on. I got white wads but a few of them wont go on. I see they have red ones too. Are these a better fit? If so where can I buy them from an English speaking web site? Another pin goes right through the slug for a different wad that must screw on from the front. What are these called and are they any better?
Thanks.
Keith

[longbow]

The wads that screw in will be the double ended brush wads:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/BRP-12-wad-12ga-250_bag/productinfo/072BRP12/

"Normally" these are screwed onto Zveroboy or Twister (or similar) slugs which generally have a hollow point and flat base. There is a pin that makes a hole right through for a screw that goes through the base of the slug and upper deck of the wad so the cushion leg still works.

These seem to provide good accuracy from rifled guns. They should also work from smoothbore since they would be weight forward designs.

I don't recall seeing any posts on shooting them from smoothbore though.

Before the Ukraine fiasco I was planning on buying a Russian mould to try with brush wads. I have an aversion to proprietary stuff so not interested in the special wads. The brush wads are readily available.

Longbow

[Keith]

Thanks for that. Perhaps I will swap the pins to the long ones, cast some more, and try that. Would the brush wads be better than cutting the petals off the 12SO wads I have and screwing those on? The brush wads dont come with pilot holes do they.

[longbow]

Not sure how well the Paradox slug will screw to a brush wad due to the long HB cavity but they offer the pin so it should work.

No the brush wads don't have a pilot hole. IIRC Blood Trail posted that he puts the wad and slug in a hull then drills through the slug so the wad is drilled on center. You should use a drill press, not a hand drill unless you make a jig to align the slug and wad exactly.

If you look back at Petander's post #68 you can see the brush wads he has used.

I have not used the 12SO wads before so not sure if they have a beefy enough cushion leg to avoid distortion at firing. I have tried cutting the petals off other trap wads with no success. The cushion legs were just not robust enough to return to reasonable shape and alignment after leaving the bore. Recovered slugs had distorted cushion legs. If you look at the brush wads and the proprietary wads they look like a Gualandi style cushion leg used on their DGS slugs. It certainly wouldn't hurt to try cutting petals off your 12SO wads then screwing the 12SO wads onto the slug. All it will cost is a bit of time and burning some powder and primers. If it works, great! If not then not much lost.

Another concern is that with the HB Paradox slug the wad may try to push into the HB cavity. The Zveroboy and similar slugs have solid flat bases. I'd be inclined to put the screw throiugh then center it and fill the cavity with hot melt glue or other filler to make sure the top deck of the wad can't get into the cavity. Some trap wads will jam into Lee Drive Key slug cavities so with a big open HB cavity that could be a problem.

The proprietary wads work well but the main reason I don't like them is that they are proprietary so only available from Svarog or AS-Molds. That's just me.

I was given some Paradox slugs with the proprietary wads and they shot not badly but no better than some of my Foster style slugs with no attached wad. That is from smoothbore.

Longbow

[Keith]

It is a big cavity, I was thinking glue filling as I fill the Lyman slug already. I will try a couple and see. If no good I will order some brush wads. They are pretty short so will give me a chance to cut down some old hulls and make some short shells with the brush wad on the powder. Try fold and Roll crimps. I only have Unique, WSF, and our AP70 powders to work with.
Thanks again for the info.
Keith

[longbow]

Not sure if the Paradox slug is enough weight forward to drag stabilize without an attached wad. They have a fairly thick skirt but I haven't checked balance point with a bare slug.

You might try glue filling and cutting off flat then drill and put the screw through the brush wad.

Longbow

[cwlongshot]

I have a Saverog mold. I haven't cast it in a while. Getting the slug completely attached to its wad is difficult.

I like the AS molds a bit better these screw to there molds. I posted a couple Videos today.

[Keith]

I last bought a heap of stuff from BPI 2 years ago. Just tries to log in to get some Brush Wads and my Password would not work. Sent them a message to ask what was the problem and got a reply saying that "In light of conversations with our international couriers we have halted all International sales"
Why do they need Couriers?. Cant it just be sent by post.
So , thats that.

[longbow]

If you can't buy from BPI then maybe try a European outfit like SIARM:

http://www.siarm.com/index.php?cPath=2_24_31

The "BPI" wads are Gualandi wads so should be available from other outfits and European vendors:

http://www.gualandi.it/en/products_plastic_wads/bior_pallettoni.html

I'd be surporised if there isn't a Gualandi dealer downunder!

Longbow

[Keith]

Thanks. Good idea. I googled it and found a dealer that sells Gualandi wads. so sent a message asking if he has the BRP 20.
See what happens.
Keith

[Keith]

I have the white wads and like others cant get some to go all the way on. The Reloaders Network has a jig that presses them together. I messaged asking if I can buy one but no reply. So I spent an hour this morning making my own.
One bit of aluminium tube for the outside holder, another to cut and split for the bracing for the wad. I had a compression die I made years ago and screwed that into the press. It goes into the wad cup and the nose of the slug sits on the bit of steel plate that sits on the shell holder.
A fair bit of force is required but it seats the wad all the way into the slug. Some photos I have see have a small gap between the end band of the slug and flat portion of the wad. This eliminates that. Bit basic but it works.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52903895434_b488542a9b_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oAWhYb)IMG_2813 (https://flic.kr/p/2oAWhYb) by Keith Cree (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52903897269_593fcd288e_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oAWivP)IMG_2814 (https://flic.kr/p/2oAWivP) by Keith Cree (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52904186078_6ff559f681_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oAXMnh)IMG_2815 (https://flic.kr/p/2oAXMnh) by Keith Cree (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52904125915_815a8b45bd_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oAXttZ)IMG_2816 (https://flic.kr/p/2oAXttZ) by Keith Cree (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/), on Flickr

[Keith]

I tried it without the outer sleeve. Just make the two half circle bits a good fit and hold them with your left hand while pulling the lever with the other. Seats them just as well.

[cwlongshot]

I cast some up the other day.

https://rumble.com/v2ntv28-the-savrog-slug.html

[GONRA]

GONRA's not sure wots goin' on here, but maybe a small HOSE CLAMP would help? ??

[Blood Trail]

I have a Saverog mold. I haven't cast it in a while. Getting the slug completely attached to its wad is difficult.

I like the AS molds a bit better these screw to there molds. I posted a couple Videos today.

The newer Sharon slugs are beveled at the base to fit perfectly in flex seals or brush wads.

BTW, flex seals work great. Most accurate wad you can attach to these Russian slugs, IMO.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230710/693fb63079f54264a06c8ad2e656a320.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230710/1630f162e5028706a9c7a25e70320bc9.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230710/f9f63c140cc48f616e1103df2af91f59.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230710/eca4841c7f12d2a37c480b7e593402b5.jpg


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