Need Advice - Straight Walled Cartridges for youth hunting whitetails

[Allgrainbeer]

Pennsylvania might be allowing straight walled rifle cartridges in what is currently shotgun slug only areas. My son is 10 and cannot handle the recoil of a 12 gauge slug and right now, I cannot find a youth 20 gauge slug gun for him either. That all said, what straight walled cartridges do you recomend for a yourth shooting whitetails out to 100 yards?

Do you also have any recommendations rifle models in your suggested caliber?

Thank you.... and btw, it is good to be back.. been too many years not being on the site..

[longcruise]

I recently acquired a CVA Scout in 44 MAG. Just got back from the range session with it. Im shooting 320 LBT WLFN powder coated at Just over 1500 fps. So far accuracy is running around 3" at 100 yards. Easily whitetail medicine and accuracy. Recoil is not bad at all.

It's also shooting 300 gr xtp very well. Lighter xtp bullets at 1300 fps neighborhood would be even tamer in the recoil department and still deadly.

[Minerat]

I'm shooting a 267 gr Trueshot clone in my 41 mag Henry Big Boy it whacks big western mules just fine out to 100 yds or so.

[GregLaROCHE]

44 Mag.

[lar45]

My youngest Son's first Deer was a smallish Mulie shot with a Rossi M92 357 mag loaded with the C358-180RF and WC820. Don't remember the velocity, but one shot and it was DRT. It was near his birthday, so I gifted it to him right there on the mountain.

[Gone_rabid]

Being in Ohio we too have that law. I like the big bores and started getting a small collection of various straight walls. The 350 legend is a good ground in a straight wall required state. It’s my go to gun now for hogs when we go to Texas. In fact my 16 year old son just bought a 350 upper for our upcoming hog trip and plans on using it for deer this year as well.

[NSB]

I’ve shot many, many deer over the last forty+ years with a .357mag handgun and have never lost a single deer. I’ve also shot a dozen or so with the .357mag and the .357max with a couple of rifles. Still haven’t lost one. Recoil is very light, almost nothing in a rifle. I’ve shot deer well out past 100 yards also. I think your son would do well with a rifle with this cartridge. Bullet selection is excellent and abundant, as well as powder selections. Good luck.

[country gent]

A lot will depend on your sons physical stature and strength, along with how you hunt. Hunting from a stand might be easier for him than stalking or driving. From the stand or blind rifle weight isnt near the issue as the others where the rifle is carried for hours.

From the blind he can rest the rifle in his lap or keep it close when not needed, he can have a rest to steady him if needed. One of the single shots ( sharps, high wall, roller or even H&R) all have enough weight to help dampen recoil and a sight radius that makes them easier to shoot accurately. One in 38-55 with the traditional 265 grn load would do well as would any if them in the modern pistol calibers 357 mag up.

Another option would be one of the lever actions in a pistol cartridge, Here one of the "trapper" models with a low powered high field of view scope ( possibly extended eye relief mounted scout style in 357 or 44 mag ( loaded down to upper end 44 spl) would be easy to carry fast handling and accurate.

[MrWolf]

Being in Ohio we too have that law. I like the big bores and started getting a small collection of various straight walls. The 350 legend is a good ground in a straight wall required state. It’s my go to gun now for hogs when we go to Texas. In fact my 16 year old son just bought a 350 upper for our upcoming hog trip and plans on using it for deer this year as well.

This was my first thought as well, especially if you already have lowers available.

[OFFSHORE]

The Winchester XPR in 350 Legend, Ruger 77/44 .44 MAG, 45Long Colt in various lever action rifles. . .and if it were me, the T/C Encore in 445 Super Mag and it comes in all the calibers I mentioned plus a whole lot more. You could also build off that platform into a muzzleloader, handgun and shotgun barrels. The Encore opens doors with a plethora of factory and custom configurations. Good luck.

[1006]

Ruger AMERICAN Ranch in 350Legend with a 4x Scope. I see the ammo at my local Academy Sports.The guns are accurate and inexpensive.

[GhostHawk]

Anything .35 and bigger, IMO bigger is better.

Don't rule out .45 colt either.

I have a pair of single shot Handi Rifles in .44mag. With moderate red dot loads and 200 to 240 grain cast they are very mild to shoot and will put 5 rounds into a 1.5" circle at 100. So plenty of accuracy. One wears a Truglo 2x Red Dot sight which gives a little magnification on those longer shots.

The other a 1x5 variable scope. Both were neck and neck from 15 yards to 75. At 100 the scope cranked to 5 showed a significantly tighter group.
a 2.5 moa dot at 100 yards totally covers a 2" bullseye. But either would do the trick easily and safely.

There is a wide variety of cast boolit molds from 200, 220, 240 to 300 grains.

Both my .44mags and my .45 colt get loaded with 6 to 6.5 grains of Red Dot.
Plenty of power, quiet, easy on recoil. I could shoot them all day from a bench.

Also there is the .444marlin which you can essentially load the same load into longer brass.
This has the advantage of down the road doubling the load up to 13 grains of Red Dot.

Don't count out the .45-70 either. It like the .444marlin will do mild to wild.

[Daekar]

No need to go any larger than 357mag for whitetails inside 100 yards. I prefer single shot rifles, so would suggest a Contender, Encore, Henry H015, and similar guns. Runner up would be a quality lever action, so Henry, Marlin, and Rossi, Uberti.

[farmbif]

not for nothing but if it were me and I could not afford 20 gauge slug gun, which can be as inexpensive as a moss berg or tri star with a rifled choke tube in it, I dont think I could be affording a Henry big boy or marlin 1894 or even a new Rossi, might be able to find an old ugly one for cheap somewhere if you get lucky but I would think in current gun climate a single shot, New England firearms/NEF, CVA, or Handi rifle or whatever may be least expensive option

[gunseller]

Careful the 45/70 is not a straight wall cartridge. It tapers a lot. Iowa has allowed it as a special lister cartridge. That said the 350 legend is a good choice. Be careful as to the minimum bullet diameter. The 350 bullets measure. 355. Winchester says they are .358. The bullets for reloading are .355. Bullet placement counts more than the cartridge it is fired from.
Steve

[dverna]

My suggestion is the Henry Single Shot in .357 Mag. There is a mental advantage in knowing you must make the first shot count with less powerful calibers...With larger calibers there is a tendency to get a bit sloppy for a new shooter that thinks power is more important than shot placement.

I do not like the .350 Legend but it would be OK. (BTW do not like the proprietary case and .355 bore as it limits bullet selection. I hunt with jacketed bullets, unlike most folks here, so factor that)

I like the .357 mag for a lot of reasons. Cases and good bullets are easy to get. The boy can practice cheaply with .38 Spl loads and .38 cases are even easier and cheaper to get. If/when you want to "super size" it, it can be rechambered for the .357 Max...and that gets you a nice bump in energy and range....and you can still shoot .38/.357 in the Max.

Nothing wrong with the .44 Mag but it will kick more...my son got 'scoped' with a Marlin .44 mag. Taught him a good lesson.

[longcruise]

44 mag. Also good for elk. :)

[444ttd]

i'd use the 44 spl/44 mag. if i reloaded, then 444 marlin.

you don't need max. loads. in my 444 marlin(tc encore/ 23" mgm barrel), i load a 300gr fn gc with 24.0gr of 2400/tuft of dacron that goes 1624fps.

i use my 44 in a ruger sbh in 44spl/mag and i load 44 spl with 255gr keith and 7.5gr of unique or a 44 mag with 280gr wfn and 10.0gr of unique. they will kill a deer too.

[quilbilly]

Any rifle in the 357 cal. would be just fine for any whitetails. I have that Ruger Mod 77/357 and it is a joy to shoot. Accuracy is more than adequate with the Lee 200's and NOE 189 WF-PB out to 150 yards. Where the little rifle really "sings" is with the Lee 125 gr RF-PB in front of 4.8 gr. of Bullseye. That "light" load just gave me a sub MOA 5-shot group at 100 yards with a 3x scope but even at an MV of 1320 fps, it has little recoil. That "light " load may not be heavy enough for deer (maybe) but it still could be useful for may things. The rifle may be a tad spendy but it is stainless with the plastic stock so it is comfortable to carry in the rain.

[versa-06]

I play with several of the straight wall toys. My suggestion is a 44-45 cal rifle with a fast twist 1;15-1;20 mid range bullet weight 220-255 grains using fast powder. The range he'll be shooting will decide the powder & velocity. Anything 1150-1350 fps should be plenty. At 70 yds or less 1000 fps should do fine. Recoil about nill. My 2cents. Not worth much is it.

[725]

I love my .38-55. Perceived recoil is very mild.

[longcruise]

I play with several of the straight wall toys. My suggestion is a 44-45 cal rifle with a fast twist 1;15-1;20 mid range bullet weight 220-255 grains using fast powder. The range he'll be shooting will decide the powder & velocity. Anything 1150-1350 fps should be plenty. At 70 yds or less 1000 fps should do fine. Recoil about nill. My 2cents. Not worth much is it.

Good advice there. Especially watch the twist rates.

[Mk42gunner]

Pennsylvania might be allowing straight walled rifle cartridges in what is currently shotgun slug only areas. My son is 10 and cannot handle the recoil of a 12 gauge slug and right now, I cannot find a youth 20 gauge slug gun for him either. That all said, what straight walled cartridges do you recomend for a yourth shooting whitetails out to 100 yards?

Do you also have any recommendations rifle models in your suggested caliber?

Thank you.... and btw, it is good to be back.. been too many years not being on the site..
Honestly, my first thought was the .357 Magnum in a single shot rifle. H&R/NEF made a bunch of them, you should be able to find one fairly easily.

I recommend a single shot for new hunters, just so they concentrate on the all important first shot. Any modern SS with an ejector isn't all that slow to reload, and a Whitetail isn't likely to try to eat them at the same time.

Next thought was a .38-55 with the traditional 255-265 grain load. If it qualiies as straight walled in your state.

Reason for these two cartridges is lack of recoil. They will still work fine for him in later years if he grows, or even if he stays small (I don't know the boy).

A lever action rifle or carbine would work well too, I just think it is better to learn with a single shot. I know I killed a truckload of small game with my single shots (.22 and shotgun) before I ever began using a repeater or deer hunting for that matter.

Robert

[versa-06]

I think you'll find a lot less recoil & better accuracy with some of these suggestions than with a 20 ga. slug again my 2-cents.

[warren5421]

My grandson started at 10, small for his age, with a Ruger Deerslaryer .44 mag. At 18 he still uses it. He got his first deer at 10 shoot it at about 60' from the blind. His dad said it took 2-3 steps and went down. From running around in Pa. the deer are not close to west coast deer. A .357 mag will drop a deer but for a human kill by a kid I think a .44 will give little more edge with an off target shoot. I know at 50 yards my grandson at 10 was doing good to shoot an 8" center to center pattern shooting 5 rounds.

[Tripplebeards]

My Ruger 77/44 is paper light and accurate to boot! I have 2 different Lyman devastator HP load combos that shoot sub MOA at 100 yards. Recoil feels less than, or equal to, a 410 to me with a 1750 FPS load out of it. I got my buddies, extremely small for his age, 12 year old started his hunting career with it for black bear. I started him out with shooting 900 FPS trail boss loads to full power loads in a few weeks. He was extremely confident with it after a couple of range sessions. He uses a model 7 chambered in 243…and a Ruger American 30-06 now!

I’m going to have to try my 16/1 pewter and pure Lyman Devastator HP during anterless only season this year and see how fast something hits the ground. I have it loaded around 1650 FPS using 21 grain of H110 if I remember. I can’t hardly feel it recoil with my hunting jacket on. If you check my home page it shows my loads and mushroomed boolits I caught in water from the load. I did install a trigger kit in it which I believe was just a spring if I remember. I also polished the trigger group. The only other things I did to it was free float the barrel and glass bed the action. Shoots tight groups with several of my cast loads now after the upgrades.

[siamese4570]

I'm going fall in with the 357 crowd. Almost no recoil. Works well with cast boolit.. Practice with light loaded 38s. I have 16" handi rifle. One of my favorite plinking loads is 1.5 gr bullseye with a flush seated 158 gr boolit. Sounds like a pellet rifle. Accurate out to 25 yds. Perfect to start a new shooter.
siamese4570

[megasupermagnum]

I can tell you what I'd be handing to my nephew if he were allowed to use a rifle on deer tomorrow. My Henry Big Boy in 327 federal. They don't make a better 0-100 yard, kid friendly, no-recoil rifle. Don't overestimate kids though. Even if they shoot great at the range, there are almost no 10 year olds that can make a 100 yard shot under adrenaline in the field.

[centershot]

I would also recommend the .357 Magnum. When fired from a carbine length barrel it delivers performance all out of propotion to it's diminutive size. You can't go wrong with a light, slim carbine that delivers a 158 gr. bullet at 1800 fps. I'm using my Marlin 1894c this year for exactly those reasons.

[robg]

let him try a few different guns and see what he likes and shoots the best.

[Tripplebeards]

Took my Ruger 77/44 out to make sure it was still zeroed from the last time I shot it…same time last year. Never got any action last year since I used my 35 Rem marlin 336 and cast HPs.

First shot at 100 yards aiming for the little orange circle…

https://i.imgur.com/pLjaoiH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q2fLhqh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/efJJnQe.jpg


I forgot how fun it was to shoot! I have tested that load a few seasons ago and it will stack boolits on top of each other at 100 yards when I do my part.

I never tried it passed 100 yards before. Someone hung a 6” gong up at 200 yards. I went Nikon’s spot program and plugged in a 270 speer at 1600 FPS. Figured it’s about as close as I’m going to get to my 21 grain H110 load and a 265 grain Lyman devastator. It said 20” low at 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. I knew from last year messing around with my leupold 2-7 that where the thin part of the cross hair going down touches the thick crosshair is approx 8”/9” at 200 yards. I eyeballed what I though was an equal length of the thin crosshair down on the thick cross hair (approx 20” drop) and let my boolit fly. I hit three for three on that gone at 200 yards! I packed my gun away and saved ammo for hunting after that. You really can’t see my hits on the gong but the spits are brighter….

https://i.imgur.com/G4YQKPf.jpg

Deer beware! The little gun and load has the felt recoil of a 410 to me.

[Tripplebeards]

Even though it’s not a straight wall cartridge here is another one of my light kicking favorites. A Remington 600 chambered in 243. It’s around 5.2 pounds and a 16.5” barrel. I took it out and checked my zero on it yesterday after I re bedded an old acraglass job. I also have an aftermarket trigger i installed it. I adjusted down to 1 1/4 pounds for predator hunting.


https://i.imgur.com/w0m2E2S.jpg


It’s a tac driver and it’s very light recoiling. I use .6 grains over Hodgen’s max published load of IMR4831 with zero signs of pressure. It will clover leaf at 100 yards. Sighted in 1.6” high with my 90 grain Nosler ballistic tip load at 100 yards it drops -2.7” at 250 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/8hfBVeC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/xeVt2d4.jpg

[Allgrainbeer]

Thank you all for the great advice! I will let you know we end up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dinny]

I love and have used a 357 Maximum for years. My 9 y/o son shot his first deer this year with a 357 Maximum rechambered H&R Handi rifle using a Mihec 200gr Penta HP bullet cast at 10BHN, powdercoated, and sized to .360". Using Viht Tin Star it's leaving the barrel at just over 1160fps. When a 357 Magnum chamber is rechambered using a 357 Maximum RIFLE reamer accuracy is usually better with 38 Specials, 357 Mags, and the Maximums due to having a true throat cut.

My unequivocal vote would be for a Henry SS in 357 Magnum. Have Mike Bellm or another gunsmith who resides in a straight-wall state rechamber it to 357 Max using a good RIFLE reamer.

Thanks, Dinny

[HD.375]

Straight Walled Youth...... screams .357 mag. a Cast Boolit an some practise.

[rodwha]

My thoughts are that if you are looking for an ideal youth gun, 357 Mag/Max. But if this is a gun specific to him (his rifle) I’d say a 44 Mag or 45 Colt allows for more opportunities opening up large game. Any of these are plenty for within 100 yds.

But I also view the 38-55 as much more versatile, as well as the 45-70 if you reload. But if you aren’t shooting to 200 yds these aren’t really necessary.

[willy]

I use a Rossi model 92 in 45 colt loaded hot or a Rossi in 44 magnum. But looking at the ballistics of a 357 out of a rifle ,,,I would recommend a 357 model 92 for low recoil .

[BunkTheory]

Do they allow a single shot handgun in 30-30

[cwlongshot]

All suggested are gonna Work.

But as you already stated he is recoil shy or at least sensitive. Excellent calibers like 44 mag & 45/70 are OFF THE TABLE!

My suggestion from my heart is the 357 Maximum. But not many chambered for it. Any single shot can be reamed to accept in 30 minutes.

You didnt say if you hand load, but its assumed being here. So that also opens allot of options.

A Henry, CVA and others can be had in 357 Mag. Using proper Reamer a Dinny suggests you will have quite a versatile package. Able to shoot 38,357 Mag & Maximum. Hand loaded you can reach 2100 fps W/180g thats square in 35 Rem territory.

If you dont hand load, look at the 350 Legend.

ALL are ample for under 200yards on Deer Bear & Hogs.

Good luck

CW

[Bigbore5]

Ditto on 357 max. But I recommend a Thompson Center carbine.

[wolfdog]

I think the 357 mag would be fine.
291047
291048

[BunkTheory]

All suggested are gonna Work.

But as you already stated he is recoil shy or at least sensitive. Excellent calibers like 44 mag & 45/70 are OFF THE TABLE!

My suggestion from my heart is the 357 Maximum. But not many chambered for it. Any single shot can be reamed to accept in 30 minutes.

You didnt say if you hand load, but its assumed being here. So that also opens allot of options.

A Henry, CVA and others can be had in 357 Mag. Using proper Reamer a Dinny suggests you will have quite a versatile package. Able to shoot 38,357 Mag & Maximum. Hand loaded you can reach 2100 fps W/180g thats square in 35 Rem territory.

If you dont hand load, look at the 350 Legend.

ALL are ample for under 200yards on Deer Bear & Hogs.

Good luck

CW

Pray sir, do you have much experience with a lever gun in 44 magnum? The only issue a lever gun may have is the persons physical size in relation to the ability to operate the lever action mechanism while it is in the shouldered position.

Recoil becomes MEANINGLESS when you put the 44 magnum into a LONG GUN.... sort of like shooting 44 special in a super redhawk...

[Daekar]

Pray sir, do you have much experience with a lever gun in 44 magnum? The only issue a lever gun may have is the persons physical size in relation to the ability to operate the lever action mechanism while it is in the shouldered position.

Recoil becomes MEANINGLESS when you put the 44 magnum into a LONG GUN.... sort of like shooting 44 special in a super redhawk...

While I see where you are coming from, I will cordially disagree. I was shocked by how much recoil a 44 magnum levergun had the first time I shot one. Not that it's anything like a full-power rifle cartridge, but it is a good deal more than I expected to feel. My wife is even more recoil-sensitive than I am and she absolutely would not shoot a full-power 44 mag rifle for fun. She was pleasantly surprised at how mild the recoil was on a 357mag 158gr Hornady Critical Defense load out of my Henry Single Shot, even though she preferred my Trail Boss loads in that gun.

Could she learn to handle a 44 mag rifle? Yes, I believe she can do anything she has a compelling reason to do. But would she enjoy it? I doubt that she would. There is no virtue in spending more lead and powder than necessary to get the job done, especially if it results in less fun in the process.

[cwlongshot]

Pray sir, do you have much experience with a lever gun in 44 magnum? The only issue a lever gun may have is the persons physical size in relation to the ability to operate the lever action mechanism while it is in the shouldered position.

Recoil becomes MEANINGLESS when you put the 44 magnum into a LONG GUN.... sort of like shooting 44 special in a super redhawk...


Winchester levers have more drop in there stocks. So perceived recoil is far more along with muzzle jump. Marlins are a but better/ less recoil as they are designed with scope and Iron site shooting in mind. Yes I have shot & hunted with most all pistol caliber lever rifles. The OP has a slight, young person who has already expressed dislike for recoil. They will NOT LIKE a Winchester in 44.
Even though, we both know, how effective the 43 mag is for these needs.

[ChristopherO]

A Henry Big Boy that I've shot in 44 Magnum kicked more than I would have thought. The brass butt doesn't help. I don't mind but if a young person, or slight man or woman has an aversion to recoil then it wouldn't be the weapon for them to use. I agree that they won't feel it shooting at game, but their minds will tell them otherwise and may not execute a good shot.
If you reload then a reduced loading would be the option for a bigger bore than the .357. Hope they will, or have already, enjoy their season afield.
Cheers

[warren5421]

My grandson started at 9 hunting, got his first deer with a Uberti model 66 in .44-40, not straight walled. He couldn't keep the lever gun to his shoulder and operate the lever. The next year he used grandpa's Ruger Deerslayer in .44 mag, gun was lighter and he operated it much better. He owns the gun at 18, as grandpa had 2. He did not like recoil of the 12 ga or .45-70. Letting him shot the Ruger auto he wanted to shot it every time he visited, he would shot it over the .22's. My fellings is a kid will not shoot good enough to make a .357 mag human.

[downzero]

Pray sir, do you have much experience with a lever gun in 44 magnum? The only issue a lever gun may have is the persons physical size in relation to the ability to operate the lever action mechanism while it is in the shouldered position.

Recoil becomes MEANINGLESS when you put the 44 magnum into a LONG GUN.... sort of like shooting 44 special in a super redhawk...

I dunno about that. My 6ish pound lever gun sure makes .357 Magnum feel like a cannon after a few dozen rounds. Certainly 1-2 of them in the field are nothing, but shoot a whole session of them and you won't think so.

[wolfdog]

I'll have to disagree here just a bit. Open sights take some work, but scoped, it's going to put things into a small enough group that it's as humane as anything else. A scoped Henry single shot isn't going to kick much and even a kid can put it into 3-4" at 100 yards. That's lungs all day. And the gun really isn't going to go much beyond 100 effectively. If the kid can keep everything in lungs out to whatever distance, that's the distance they should be limited to. If he can't shoot well enough to keep the rounds in the lungs, I'm unconvinced that a bigger gun of any type is going to help. Just my thoughts.

[wolfdog]

That Henry single shot makes them feel like a pop gun. It's got heavy wood, heavy bbl and a recoil pad. You can shoot it all day and it's nothing.

[cwlongshot]

What caliber are you speaking about Wolfdog???

[wolfdog]

357 magnum.

[Jeff Michel]

Pray sir, do you have much experience with a lever gun in 44 magnum? The only issue a lever gun may have is the persons physical size in relation to the ability to operate the lever action mechanism while it is in the shouldered position.

Recoil becomes MEANINGLESS when you put the 44 magnum into a LONG GUN.... sort of like shooting 44 special in a super redhawk...

Had a 1894S in .44 Mag break my ex wife's nose about 40 years ago. Scope whacked her when she fired it. She sorta thought it "kicked"

[longcruise]

I've been playing with and having a lot of fun with a CVA scout in 44 mag. Recoil is not a factor IMO even with 320 gr cast at 1500 fps. It would be even less a factor loaded with lighter bullets for deer.

[BunkTheory]

Winchester levers have more drop in there stocks. So perceived recoil is far more along with muzzle jump. Marlins are a but better/ less recoil as they are designed with scope and Iron site shooting in mind. Yes I have shot & hunted with most all pistol caliber lever rifles. The OP has a slight, young person who has already expressed dislike for recoil. They will NOT LIKE a Winchester in 44.
Even though, we both know, how effective the 43 mag is for these needs.

I helped teach my neice to shoot with a WINCHESTER 94 we got her chambered in 44 magnum.. She loved it, just had a hard time working the action so we ended up getting her some thing in a bolt. Funny thing is, she was only 9 at the time.