45 Long Colt and looking for a recipe.

[robertmcw]

Am about to start casting some 45 Long Colt boolits and looking for a recipe. I have a 452424 NOE 45 Long Colt mold with the pin to make it HP I got few years ago. With the pin, should be about 235 grains? I have a melting pot and a lot of ‘pure’ lead and most of the rest of the stuff but am not sure about the amount of tin and/or antimony to add in the mix. The point is if I shoot it, want it to mushroom - not bounce, and/or not lead up the barrel. Will running the boolits at about 850 - 900 fps with Unique. Any advice will be appreciated.

[cwtebay]

Following

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[Mk42gunner]

Somewhere around 16:1 to 20:1 lead to tin is where I would start. With a good lube.

Robert

[Char-Gar]

Cast the HP bullet 30-1 if you want it to expand at nominal 45 Colt velocity.

[ABJ]

20:1 or 16:1 has always worked for me. 20:1 is where I would start for that velocity range.
I do have one question, what are you shooting at and at what distance are you concerned about boolits "bouncing" back?
Tony

[robertmcw]

Was not clear - am not worried about "bouncing" back. Was worried about having the boolit not mushrooming. Would hate to have a bunch hollow points that fail to mushroom.

[cwlongshot]

My experience says a HP cast in 20:1 needs close to 1200fps to properly expand. A large deep HP will need little less and a shallow small HP will need more.

30:1 will preform same as above minus about 2-250 fps.

CW

[jimb16]

At those low velocities, you could use soft lead with a decent lube and not get leading if you size the bullets properly. You could also go with powder coating a soft 1:30 bullet and push slightly higher velocities and not get leading. In either case you should get decent expansion.

[echo154]

I use 20-1 with a 250grn.......at 850 to 875. no leading no fears in the lower 48!

[mehavey]

At those low velocities, you could use soft lead with a decent lube...In fact pure lead would be fine at traditional (Tier-1) 45 Colt loads
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

[oldblinddog]

20-1 is what I would use. I would load 8.5 to 9.0 grs of unique depending on seating depth. What are you shooting it in?

[Tar Heel]

Use 30:1 for the HP bullet. Play with the load.

[Land Owner]

20:1 lead to tin is 5% Tin. Retail pricing (not including shipping) is commonly quoted here as $1/lb. lead and $10/lb Tin, which adds up over a lot of shooting. It is not difficult to cypher that reducing Tin reduces cost.

30:1 is 3.33% and 50:1 is 2% Tin.

If you HIT SOMEONE (home defense related) at a belly gun distance (5 to 25 feet) with a 45 Colt boolit, it is first going to "sting a mite" going through and second leave a big hole regardless of "mushrooming" the leading edge. If they're hit in the CNS, the mushroom is immaterial.

If hunting is intended, creating a large wound channel on PASS THROUGH within the round's effective range is desirable and the trend toward less Tin and softer lead remains true.

[robertmcw]

Robert likes "it is first going to "sting a mite" going through and second leave a big hole regardless of "mushrooming" the leading edge."

[robertmcw]

I have found an article about the 45 bullets.
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/Heavy%20Bullets%20in%20the%20.45%20ACP.pdf
On page three there is a photo of an Ideal 454190 HP recovered at 100 yards.
The photo shows a #454190HP that was launched at 887 feet per second during these tests out of a 5 ½” Blackhawk .45 ACP. Assuming the 45 Long Colt HP boolit has the same character, it SHOULD have the same ‘mushroom’ effect.
The article does not tell us how lead vs other elements are in the boolit.
I have ordered some tin and a hope to cast some boolits soon. Will cast some with no tin to see if am happy and then try with tin starting at 1:50 going up see how it goes. Then when my work bench has been cleared, will use it to develop loads.
And will report back.

[mehavey]

Adding small amounts of tin doesn't really have an effect on hardness till you get way up there. (past 1-20/16, etc)
Before you do anything else, baseline some w/ your pure lead.

https://s33.postimg.cc/w3puhgzcf/BHN_Chart4.jpg

[Tar Heel]

I see it now.

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[Land Owner]

meharvey==>interesting graph. What is its resource for further investigation?

[mehavey]

Since Brinell numbers are literally the metal's yield strength in "pounds per square inch", they ARE linear.
Double the brinell number and you have double the strength ("hardness") of the alloy.

(If you don't believe this, check the chart HERE (http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellm.htm) )

So I went back to 1st principles and did the math to put into Excel...
http://www.gordonengland.co.uk/hardness/brinell.gif
The only thing that all the "squares & square root" terms do in the Brinell equation is
convert the diameter of the impression made by the steel ball into spherical surface area.

Then plain old Lee hardness tester in the reloading press (which is nothing more than
steel ball and a 60# spring)

The big problem for people w/ the Lee is the microscope -- which is actually very accurate
... just a bear to hold in any fashion to get readings.

Hence my first holder:
https://i.postimg.cc/pL3NNbpg/Lee-Tester-Mount.jpg
(Nifty, huh ? ;-) )

Then the SuperDooper CELESTRON (https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Handheld-Digital-Microscope-Pro/dp/B00CMJ1I08/ref=asc_df_B00CMJ1I08/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241899609306&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17144880739020399045&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008133&hvtargid=pla-406164245673&psc=1)...
https://i.postimg.cc/g0MZcsPF/Celestron-Test-Bullet-sm2.jpg
Which is reeeeaally nifty, but `ya gotta calibrate each set-up)

And final realization that any home printer/scanner -- along w/ PhotoShop -- could
read/measure the dimple in about 30 seconds....
https://i.postimg.cc/DZDYt1jn/BHN-Meas-2-LEE-358-200-RNFP-GC.jpg
A true No-Brainer at this point... which is good.:awesome:





What has surprised was Reactor Shielding Lead (came in bricks from when I was a real person) is EXTREMELY soft.

- Just measured some Minnie balls I cast back 45 years ago: really close to "4.2"
- Some Rotemetal pure lead just now: 4.75

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Just enough tin to get good fill out on the bullets, 1-30 is plenty hard, might go softer, with any decent lube, 850 +/- fps should work very well.

[bangerjim]

1st - Powder Coat EVERYTHING! That eliminates any worry of leading - if your boolit is sized for your barrel first. PC is amazing, but cannot cure poor fits - all the time.

I shoot GOBS of 45 LC's in anything from 180 to 300gn (revolvers and long guns) and the alloy I use is somewhere between 9-12 +PC. It varies a tad with every batch. Since going with PC 8+ years ago, I don't worry about mixes or hardness at all. Just good clean lead-free smoke-free accurate (for me!) shooting every time.

[gwpercle]

Let's go back to basic's . "Sixgun Cartridges & Loads" by Elmer Keith ,
45 Colt , standard loads , normal pressure : 1 part Tin / 20 parts Lead (1/20)
Heavy Loads , higher pressure -hunting loads : 1 part Tin / 16 parts Lead (1/16)
This information is from the old man himself ... he warns against revolver boolits of pure lead used in heavy loads , he claims pressures can spike ... but Elmer didn't have the magic powers of the powder coated boolit ... I don't know if coated boolits / pure lead and heavy magnum loads work .
Gary

[bangerjim]

I have all the old Keith books and the Pet Load books and old loading manuals from most manufacturers and makers that were "pure unadulterated gospel"......35+ years ago! Even a lot of the LASC web stuff needs to be updated. New powders and PC technology have changed a lot of the way we look at, think about, and do reloading and I never use that old info except for interesting historical/hysterical reading.

Some things do not change, some thing DO change! Some things totally reinvent themselves over time.

[mehavey]

FWIW: Again, look at the data.
There's not hill of beans difference between 20-to-1 and 16-to-1.
Adding add'k tin (absent Antimony) does nothing but add $$$-signs. [smilie=w:

https://s33.postimg.cc/w3puhgzcf/BHN_Chart4.jpg

[PhatForrest]

What has surprised was Reactor Shielding Lead (came in bricks from when I was a real person) is EXTREMELY soft.


So I gotta ask, how did you get your hands on lead reactor shielding???

[mehavey]

That was back when I was a real person. :cool:
PS: `was detector shielding -- massive brick structure filled room/at least10x10/multiple layers deep
but same lead bricks in both cases.

[Outpost75]

Agree with CharGar on 1 to 30 tin-lead for hollow points. Here is my 255-grain cup point propelled by 6.5 grains of Bullseye from the Colt New Service shot into water jugs.

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