Vintage scope for sporterized M1903 Springfield

[4given]

My Dad is getting up there in years and he just gave me his old hunting rifle. It is a sporterized M1903 Springfield done sometime in the 1960's. The story goes that this rifle was used in competition at Camp Perry prior to it's conversion into a hunting rifle so it may have been a M1903 NM but who knows

Anyway ... it has an old beat up Bushnell Scope Chief on it and I would like to replace it with a decent period correct scope. Not just a scope that is in decent shape cosmetically, but one that is also usable with decent glass, durability and etc. I know that vintage scopes don't hold a candle to new models but I'm sure that some are better than others.

I obtained a first generation Weaver K4 that would look really good on this rifle but it is just so primitive that it is almost unusable. Any suggestions on what to get? Maybe some sort of Leopold?

[chill45100]

Is the tube one inch or 3/4?? I have an old straight tube 2.5 scope that is very clear. Has a post and horizontal line setup. German reticule?

Update- The scope is a 7/8 inch tube. Marked Leupold Instrument 2 1/4 X.

[savagetactical]

I have an old Leupold Plainsman in a 7/8ths tube which has seen duty on a few rifles I have owned for years . They are good scopes if you can find one in decent shape, and the turn up from time to time on some of the auction sites etc. Pretty darned clear for a scope of the era and they hold zero well .

[4given]

I think it is a 1" tube but I will have to measure it to be sure.

[Texas by God]

It might have a star( star gauged) stamp on the muzzle if you look. Worth a look.
Search vintage hunting scopes on eBay- you may find what you are looking for.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[444ttd]

i don't know know nuthin' about old vintage scopes. but heres someone.

https://www.vintagegunscopes.com/

[Char-Gar]

Redfield scopes of that period had very clear optics and would be a top choice for me. The Lyman All American scopes of that period were also quite good.

[kootne]

I have a Weaver K3 on my Model 70 30/06. Dad bought scope and rifle new from Bob Wards in Missoula when he came back from active duty in 1954. In 1969 he went to a .300 Win./Model 700 and I at the ripe old age of 15 glommed onto the M70. The rifle and I became "one". I badly cracked the ocular lense in a fall on a rockslide in 1974. But it still shot to aim. Early '80's it got badly tromped by a horse ( never leave a rifle in the scabbard while a horse is tied to a tree). So after putting a used stock on it I had to make about a 3" adjustment @ 100 yard to re-zero. Late '80's another horse rolled on a side hill and broke that stock. Another used stock, a couple inch adjustment to zero @ 100 yards. Now it is 2021 and hot or cold, wet or dry that gun will still shoot 2" high @ 100. dead on at 200. That is 2 sight corrections in 66 years. And the cracked lense is still there, never fogged. I would recommend an old Weaver.

[samari46]

The old Lyman All American scopes were also longer in the tube length making it easier to mount without stock crawling due to the more modern scopes developed for the shorter actions. I have a All American perma-center in 6x as well as a 10x with adjustable objective. I would hate to guess at a date of when these scopes were available. My 10x while nice and clear does show some delaminating on the front lenses. Back in those days they used I believe some type of balsam type pine resin to cement the lenses together. And have one old Weaver K4 with clear lenses. Frank

[Eddie2002]

I have my dad's sporterized Sedgley Springfield in 30-06 and it has a Redfield 2 3/4 X post cross hair scope mounted on the one piece Redfield scope mount. From what I've been able to find out it's pretty much the way the rifle came from the Sedgley factory and the scope is from the mid 60's.

[GregLaROCHE]

You should definitely stick with a single power scope. Optics weren’t as good as today and the more glass you have to look through, the more the clarity goes down. I would go with a 4X.

[4given]

I have a Weaver K3 on my Model 70 30/06. Dad bought scope and rifle new from Bob Wards in Missoula when he came back from active duty in 1954. In 1969 he went to a .300 Win./Model 700 and I at the ripe old age of 15 glommed onto the M70. The rifle and I became "one". I badly cracked the ocular lense in a fall on a rockslide in 1974. But it still shot to aim. Early '80's it got badly tromped by a horse ( never leave a rifle in the scabbard while a horse is tied to a tree). So after putting a used stock on it I had to make about a 3" adjustment @ 100 yard to re-zero. Late '80's another horse rolled on a side hill and broke that stock. Another used stock, a couple inch adjustment to zero @ 100 yards. Now it is 2021 and hot or cold, wet or dry that gun will still shoot 2" high @ 100. dead on at 200. That is 2 sight corrections in 66 years. And the cracked lense is still there, never fogged. I would recommend an old Weaver.

What a great story! I have my eye on a Weaver K4 60B and a Leupold M8 4X. Not sure yet. I'm still open to other possibilities!

[Mk42gunner]

I like the later steel tubed Weaver K-4's, but I think the Leupold M8 4X is a lot better scope.

Robert

[gnoahhh]

If it were mine and I wanted to put a good "period correct" scope on it, I would look no further than a Unertl hunting scope. They were made with 1" steel tubes and utilized absolutely top notch glass. A Unertl Hawk 4x (very similar looking to a Weaver 4x) from the 50's-60's-70's will run these days about the the same cost as a nice used Leupold 3-9. As good as a top notch modern scope? No, but by golly not far from it. Waaaaay better, IMO, than period Weavers, Lymans, and Redfields. They cost a heckuva lot more than Weavers, etal, back in the day- that's why they're uncommon today. There's always some on eBay it seems.

[Char-Gar]

There are Weavers scopes and then their are Weaver scope. The early ones had dim and cloudy optics. However later they had clear, bright and sharp optics If the Weaver has "Microtrac" adjustments, buy it. If not pass on it.

[M-Tecs]

Optically, the old -B Weavers and later were very good when new and even today in mint condition they are surprisingly good by todays standards. The issue is many of these older scopes suffer from lenses separation and or cement degradation that greatly effects clarity coupled with the lens coating becoming cloudy. The lens are a two piece design that is flat on the inside and glued together. I purchased two K-4's in 1972. One went cloudy within 10 years and one is still very clear.

[charlie b]

There used to be an old Weaver technician in El Paso who would rebuild scopes, including new lenses and modern sealants. I saw some of them and they were equal in clarity to modern stuff. Sounds like the Vintage Scope person linked above ended up with that stockpile of parts and is continuing the work. Kudos to him for his work.

A quick search turned up this site for vintage Unertl scopes
http://unertl.alexweb.net/


And Hi-Lux makes reproduction Unertl and Malcolm scopes
https://hi-luxoptics.com/collections/vintage-reproduction-scopes/products/malcolm-8x-usmc-sniper-scope

[richhodg66]

Weaver K4, lots of them out there and they are good hunting scopes.

[Bigslug]

Stith-Kollmorgen Bear Cub maybe?

[1hole]

A lot of noise is made over how much better modern rifle scopes are than the old ones. I say okay but how much difference does a 50's scope make and the answer is a lot less than many people think.

> We now have better lens grinders that provide a flat field of view from edge to edge BUT we aim through the center and the edges only affect our view of empty leaves and trees anyway; is that a big deal?

> Better lens coatings now allow better light transmission but it takes electronic test instruments to measure the average differences.

> Len's color corrections are better today but the worst old scopes I ever looked through showed deer and groundhogs quite well.

> Resolution is technically better now but I aim at the critters, not their individual whiskers. And few people's eyes actually have any better resolution than the older lenses provided anyway.

I have a modest collection of scopes, old and new. I use and like 'em all. Especially the 1" tube 2.5-5x Baush & Lomb on my Marlin 336 in .35 Rem; the Unertl 12x 1.5" Target on my Browning Safari in .22-250; the 24x Remington BR w/Unertl rings sitting on my Rem. 40XB in 6mm International; the 4x Redfield Sportster on my Marlin 39A; the all steel Weaver K4 on my sporter 91 Mauser in 7.65 Argentine. :)

My newer scopes are just common newer stock. All of them are okay but who cares, there's nothing special about any of them.

[beemer]

I have a nice sporterized 03A3, when I got it was not set up for a scope but had a nice Lyman all steel aperture sight. It now wears a nice Weaver steel tube 3 X 9, just looks right. The peeps are still there and I use them occasionally.

I have probably a dozen old Weavers laying around, guess I like them but they have gotten pricey lately. Picked up a mint K4 a couple years ago, it doesn't have the centered cross hairs. I am not sure when that was changed.

Dave

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello 4given,

Not a Springfield, but when I scoped my 1891 Mauser I purchased a Weaver V7 with fine cross hairs and a command post for it.
Unfortunately the bolt wouldn't clear the scope so I ended up putting a Weaver K4 on it. Then installed the V7 on my fathers Remington 740.
Those old classic Weavers make the rifles look great and fit the era perfect with good service also.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Harleysboss]

288995. I was gifted my grandfather’s 03. I went vintage scope too. I think it’s a Lyman. Can’t remember, have to pull it out and check.

[4given]

For you guys that have sporterized Springfields: One thing I notice with Dads rifle, there is no way to mount the scope far enough forward or backward there it does not interfear with the safety. any of you have the same problem? If so is there a way to deal with it?

I think I will start a different thread about this issue. Here are a couple of pictures:

Safety ON

288999


Safety OFF


288998




289000

[M-Tecs]

For you guys that have sporterized Springfields: One thing I notice with Dads rifle, there is no way to mount the scope far enough forward or backward there it does not interfear with the safety. any of you have the same problem? If so is there a way to deal with it?

I think I will start a different thread about this issue. Here are a couple of pictures:

Safety ON

288999


Safety OFF


288998




289000

Most convert them to side swing safety's for scope use or use the Timney Trigger with the safety. https://timneytriggers.com/springfield-featherweight-deluxe/

[higgins]

I'm still using K4 and K6 steel-tube El Paso Weavers on a couple of rifles. I bought the K6 in the late 1960s and the K4 in the 1970s. Very good, accurate adjustments and clear optics on both. The K6 has been on the same .243 since I bought it; several hundred shots fired with no recoil battering. The K4 has been on the same .308 since bought with also several hundred full-power jacketed bullet shots fired; that rifle now a dedicated cast bullet rifle.

No fogging problems (in response to question below)

[4given]

I'm still using K4 and K6 steel-tube El Paso Weavers on a couple of rifles. I bought the K6 in the late 1960s and the K4 in the 1970s. Very good, accurate adjustments and clear optics on both. The K6 has been on the same .243 since I bought it; several hundred shots fired with no recoil battering. The K4 has been on the same .308 since bought with also several hundred full-power jacketed bullet shots fired; that rifle now a dedicated cast bullet rifle.

Nice! Any fogging issues?

[BenTolson]

The early sporterized 1903's by Griffin & Howe used the Griffin & Howe side mount... with a 7/8" tube scope. Often with a Zeiss or Hensolt & Wetzler scope mounted. There are some really nice custom rifles by famous gunsmiths of that era that utilize this mount. A couple G&H custom 1903's owned by actor Gary Cooper just sold at auction for $21,000 and $34,000.
Here's a link: https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/83/1408/gary-cooper-griffin-howe-scoped-1903-bolt-action-22-hornet
The same mount was adapted to the WWII era Springfield Garand M1C sniper using the Lyman Alaskan scope. The earliest Lyman Alaskans used on the M1C snipers were actually commercial scopes and the later that were marked M82 were the government contract version. Wollensak also made the M82 scope under military contract. They were used in the Korean & Vietnam wars as well. The subject 1903 has the Echo mount from post WWII... the existing scope body does limit eye relief. You have some options to achieve the eye relief desired & not interfere with safety operation: 1) Change the upper portion of the Echo mount (they are often on ebay) to one that fits a 7/8" tube scope. 7/8" diameter scopes typically have a smaller diameter eye piece. 2) install the Wisner 2 position safety (I provided the link in your other thread). good luck.

[4given]

Thanks for all the great input you guys! Rich/WIS sent me a Buehler Low Swing Safety so I am going to try that first. I'll let you all know how that works out.

[gwpercle]

I don't consider a Weaver K4 unusable ... I mounted one on my 1903-A3 Springfield sporter in 1967 and have taken many deer and hogs with it ...
Gave great service from The Crazy Mountains in Montana to the Louisiana Atchafalaya Basin Swamps
Gary

[Drydock]

Montana Vintage Arms : Their Winchester "B" Scope.

[swingingblock2520]

While i don’t have an ‘03,my 1917 Eddystone built at Baldwin Locomotive’s Eddystone PA works has vintage Lyman Alaskan glass & mount.