Winchester 1885 with serial number gone HELP

[HARRYMPOPE]

I just purchased a beautiful custom Winchester high wall. When the lower Tang was bent and repolished for a pistol grip the serial number is no longer visible at all. My firearm's dealer has received the gun from the seller but will not transfer it to me as he said it is broken a federal law. I Told him there is no way to prove it is not an antique so he should be able to transfer it to me.

Ideas?

[rockrat]

The feds would probably look at it that there is no way to prove that it IS an antique. Call BATFE and ask and ask for a letter with what they say. There should be some way to recover the S/N, but it also might damage the lower tang. Acid etching or magnaflux. Is the s/n anywhere else, say on other parts?

[HARRYMPOPE]

I haven't been to the shop to tear into it.
I hope the maker etched something somewhere.

[M-Tecs]

It just needs to be recorded as pre 1968 with no serial number. If he cant tell the difference between a japchester and an original he should be in a different business.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Even if it's pre 1968 the law reads it is illegal to remove any serial number I've already mentioned that. The only way it would be legal as if it was pre 1898.

[M-Tecs]

I was incorrect. If it had a serial number that was legally removed pre 22 October 1968 it became illegal on the 22nd of October 1968.

The only two options I can see is purchasing a lower tang with a serial number or requesting that the ATF issue a new number.

Some detailed info here.

https://www.pennlago.com/are-firearms-without-serial-numbers-illegal/#:~:text=If%20the%20firearm%20has%20no,manufacture d%20POST%20October%2022%2C%201968.

The going rate on ebay for straight stripped tangs is about $150. I got lucky a while back and got a couple of complete set trigger tangs for about that.

Not sure what options the FFL has other than turning it over to the ATF.

[HARRYMPOPE]

M-Tecs

Great idea in lower tang. Also good argument with FFL as its replaced,not removed.Being the serial is in a trigger housing the action technically had no serial number

[RickinTN]

It may have never had a serial number to begin with. The proper way to proceed is to log is as NSN, or no serial number. Many firearms manufactured before 1968 never had a serial number.
Rick

[square butte]

Unless it was a lunch box gun - All 1885 Winchesters would have had a serial number.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Unless it was a lunch box gun - All 1885 Winchesters would have had a serial number.

Correct and that is the sticky point of it

[HARRYMPOPE]

A very helpful ATF agent out of Seattle Washington helped me get the gun into my possession. When I explained that the serial number was on the trigger assembly he said due to the age of the gun they are not very worried about it. He just had the dealer logged the gun in as NSN and a description

[gc45]

Great news! You now have a legal rifle that was legal in the beginning! nor did it need to go to an FFL dealer if made before 1898. Without the serial number though, one would not know it's DOM nor would it be accurate anyway as Winchester never kept track of receiver DOM. Owning several old Winchesters its easy to see nobody cared much about serial number placement back in the day, other than shipping date information and why BATF is not so concerned about them. There are many older firearms with serial numbered parts that got changed within that family of guns and why we now have serials on the action, it's about tracing them in todays world of crime. Happy it all worked out and in your favor.

GC45