Selling Cast Boolits - FFL Needed?

[Rfeustel]

In another thread, a view was expressed that selling a few cast boolits to another member could require an FFL. It caused a thread to go off course. So I thought I’d start the discussion in a new thread.

This specific section of the Federal Law cited, 18 USC 923(a), states in part:

(a) No person shall engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or importing or manufacturing ammunition, until he has filed an application with and received a license to do so from the Attorney General.

Here we have (at least) two terms/phrases that will require understanding: “engage in the business” and “ammunition”. We also have a grammatical issue, does “engage in the business” modify just the firearms part, or does it also modify “manufacturing ammunition.” Without any research, one might argue that it modifies both. Reading further down, the same section states: “Each applicant shall pay a fee for obtaining such a license, a separate fee being required for each place in which the applicant is to do business, as follows:”. Without a court case to the contrary, and there may be one, the “is to do business” would suggest it modifies both. But it’s an issue that would require research.

On to the definitions, sometimes the law defines words contrary to their common sense meaning. Here, we see a definition of ammunition that some may find counter to common sense, section 921(a)(17):

(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

Circular, if nothing else. There is also a definition for “engage in business” in section 921(a)(21)(B):

(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;

Assuming the “engage in business” applies to manufacturing ammunition, then one should ask. Is this a bullet? Then, ask did I make is as part of a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit? I suspect of one was doing that, one “would know”.

There may also be other laws that impact the answer - I don’t know. But this is a good place to start discussion.

None of this is meant to provide legal advice, or create an attorney client relationship. It’s a point of preliminary discussion for discussion purposes only.

[Red River Rick]

Not knowing the laws in the US, I really can't comment.

However; in Canada, manufacturing COMPONENTS (bullets or brass cases), one does not need a license.
Same with importing, anyone can import up to 5000 pieces of brass, bullets or primers without any paperwork.

RRR

[ryanmattes]

Not a lawyer.

My reading of that is if you're regularly making guns, ammunition, or parts for either, and selling them for profit such that you should claim it as income, then you're "doing business," as opposed to doing it for yourself as a hobby and offloading some unused parts.

Similar to "doing business" as a firearms dealer. If I buy and sells guns more or less regularly, but I buy them to shoot and then sell them because I decide I don't want them, I'm not "doing business." I'm buying something for personal use, and selling it when I don't want it anymore. It's not for profit, and I'm not doing it for income. Sometimes I might make a profit, depending on current prices, but it's not part of my income, it's simply liquidating assets.



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[JimB..]

It’d be a lot easier to deal with a specific set of facts rather than a bunch of hypothetical situations, or is this just academic curiosity?

If the facts are “selling a few spare cast bullets to another member” the response is that no reasonable person would describe such a small and irregular transaction as being “in the business” so no ffl would be required.

[oley55]

It’d be a lot easier to deal with a specific set of facts rather than a bunch of hypothetical situations, or is this just academic curiosity?

If the facts are “selling a few spare cast bullets to another member” the response is that no reasonable person would describe such a small and irregular transaction as being “in the business” so no ffl would be required.

Here ya go:
A fellow in another thread was asking about a specific mold/bullet and he asked if there was someone out there who could sell him a few cast bullets to see if they would work for him before going out and buying the mold. The very first response was a member reminding everyone that selling this guy bullets would be illegal. The quoted request was:
Anyone have the Arsenal 225-61 Grain "Elvis" and 225-77 "Elvis" Molds?
I curious about them but do not want to buy the molds without knowing my gun will like them.
Anyone have them and are willing to sell me a few?

A word of caution. It’s illegal to sell bullets you cast. Requires an FFL
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?431107-Anyone-have-the-Arsenal-225-61-Grain-quot-Elvis-quot-and-225-77-quot-Elvis-quot-Molds

[Rfeustel]

Here ya go:
A fellow in another thread was asking about a specific mold/bullet and he asked if there was someone out there who could sell him a few cast bullets to see if they would work for him before going out and buying the mold. The very first response was a member reminding everyone that selling this guy bullets would be illegal. The quoted request was:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?431107-Anyone-have-the-Arsenal-225-61-Grain-quot-Elvis-quot-and-225-77-quot-Elvis-quot-Molds

I should have done that. Duh. Thanks.

[Wayne Smith]

"doing business" is the big issue. It is so broad that a prosecutor can try to make it anything he wants. That is the risk you run. If you do it once I don't see how anyone can make it an issue - but if you have an unusual mold that someone wants boolits regularly you are probably pushing the limits.

[243winxb]

Ffl manufacture license needed . Pay the tax https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/must-licensed-manufacturer-pay-excise-taxes


And https://johnpierceesq.com/do-i-need-an-ffl-if-all-i-am-going-to-do-is-manufacture-and-sell-cast-bullets/

[JimB..]

Here ya go:
A fellow in another thread was asking about a specific mold/bullet and he asked if there was someone out there who could sell him a few cast bullets to see if they would work for him before going out and buying the mold. The very first response was a member reminding everyone that selling this guy bullets would be illegal. The quoted request was:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?431107-Anyone-have-the-Arsenal-225-61-Grain-quot-Elvis-quot-and-225-77-quot-Elvis-quot-Molds

Whoever was responding to the question was wrong. No question about it. There is no way to interpret “in the business” to mean a hobbyist selling a handful of bullets to another hobbyist. Internet fear mongering, just ignore it.


Ffl manufacture license needed . Pay the tax https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/must-licensed-manufacturer-pay-excise-taxes


And https://johnpierceesq.com/do-i-need-an-ffl-if-all-i-am-going-to-do-is-manufacture-and-sell-cast-bullets/

I’m sure that you mean well, but you either didn’t read the posts in this thread or you didn’t read the article you linked to. In the first few lines of the article the attorney says “ He wanted to start a business manufacturing cast bullets which he would then sell online and at flea markets.” obviously this is a very different set of facts than the ones in this thread, and not surprisingly the legal requirements are different.

[farmbif]

is it true that in California dealing in lead is considered hazardous material regulated by the state

[dverna]

If someone wanted 100-150 bullets to try them out, I would just give them for free. Why would I take any risk for a few dollars?

And the FFL is the least of your concerns....ITAR may kick in too.

I looked into doing stuff like selling cast billers, selling primed brass, etc....and decided it was not worth doing. BTW, I contacted the government agency to get my answer.

[Stopsign32v]

You guys are way too scared of the boogeyman.

Look at it from the other angle guys...Someone, anyone, find a single (just one) case of a law abiding citizen going to jail over selling brass, molded boolits, primers, or powder.

[243winxb]

In the business/using a Magma Mark 8 Bullet Master machine.

Not in the business / using a 20 lb pot & a couple 6 cavity mold.. Better to get a part time Burger King job, instead of selling bullets [smilie=s:

[charlie b]

(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;


IMHO this is the key point of the situation at hand.

Kinda like arguing over whether you need a business license or not. Plenty of people have cash only businesses and no license to operate. They can go for years/decades without being 'caught'.

[jim147]

Last I looked, if you don't do $10,000 a year it's not a business as far as taxes go.

[JimB..]

Last I looked, if you don't do $10,000 a year it's not a business as far as taxes go.

Let me guess, you looked on some internet forum. Just to clear things up, the info you got is entirely wrong. Not misunderstood, not a gray area, 100% wrong.

Business vs hobby for income taxes has to do with intent, specifically the intent to make money. For a hobby you report your income and your expenses, but you can only deduct hobby expenses up to your hobby income, and to do that you need to itemize deductions which has other costs. For a business you can deduct all expenses, although some not in the current period depending upon a number of factors.

IRS regs on this are not too difficult to read, but here is an faq https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/hobby-or-business-irs-offers-tips-to-decide

For sales tax each jurisdiction is a little different, but generally you’re either selling an item that is taxable or an item that is not. It doesn’t matter how much you sell, the state, county, city want their cut every time.

Business licensing fees also vary by jurisdiction, but again of you are in business they don’t care if you only have a dollar in revenue, they want their fees.

[quilbilly]

Don't forget federal excise tax. For fishing tackle it is 10% off the top for manufacturers and it may be the same for ammunition. The form is IRS Form 720 if you want to check. Nevermind - FET for firearms and ammo is not on that form. It must be a separate form.

[jim147]

Let me guess, you looked on some internet forum. Just to clear things up, the info you got is entirely wrong. Not misunderstood, not a gray area, 100% wrong.

Business vs hobby for income taxes has to do with intent, specifically the intent to make money. For a hobby you report your income and your expenses, but you can only deduct hobby expenses up to your hobby income, and to do that you need to itemize deductions which has other costs. For a business you can deduct all expenses, although some not in the current period depending upon a number of factors.

IRS regs on this are not too difficult to read, but here is an faq https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/hobby-or-business-irs-offers-tips-to-decide

For sales tax each jurisdiction is a little different, but generally you’re either selling an item that is taxable or an item that is not. It doesn’t matter how much you sell, the state, county, city want their cut every time.

Business licensing fees also vary by jurisdiction, but again of you are in business they don’t care if you only have a dollar in revenue, they want their fees.

It was a website. It might have been a few years ago but it was the IRS site. I believe it was for your total income under $10,000 you do not have to report it. I never said a thing about state, county, city or anything else.

I ran a business for years. I payed all the taxes including city. I don't live in a city. They all want their share.

Like everything else, the less they know the better.

[JimB..]

It was a website. It might have been a few years ago but it was the IRS site. I believe it was for your total income under $10,000 you do not have to report it. I never said a thing about state, county, city or anything else.

I ran a business for years. I payed all the taxes including city. I don't live in a city. They all want their share.

Like everything else, the less they know the better.
Thats a different thing. If you have total income below $10,000 then you often don’t have to report. If you have a job that pays $25,000 and a side hustle that pay’s another $2,000 then everything is supposed to be reported. If all you make in a year is the $2,000 then you can probably skip filing a return.

You said taxes, I didn’t want to assume that you meant just income.

Agree with your last statement!

[dale2242]

If I had the mold that the OP wanted to buy the bullets to try , I would simply give them a few to try.
I have had a few generous members on this site give me bullets to try before I bought a mold.
I would find it hard to believe that giving away a few cast bullets as breaking any laws.

[farmbif]

^^^^^^^ what dale says

[dverna]

If I had the mold that the OP wanted to buy the bullets to try , I would simply give them a few to try.
I have had a few generous members on this site give me bullets to try before I bought a mold.
I would find it hard to believe that giving away a few cast bullets as breaking any laws.

Exactly.

And for me, casting and reloading are not hobbies. So anything that involves those activities is done to save money or help others. If someone wanted to buy a sizeable quantity bullets from me, I would charge $20/hr for my time plus cost of materials. I would rather get a part time job than spend 10-15 hours a week casting/lubing bullets. If someone needs 100-200, I am not charging them.

A bit of common sense comes into play. No one "needs" to try out 1000 bullets. The amount of lead in 200 200 gr bullets is less than 6 lbs....about $10. Not worth charging for IMHO. The few times someone has offered to pay for stuff like that, I told them to put $20 into the collection plate at their church. Maybe I look at this wrong, but helping someone out means just that...not trying to make $10. If it is someone I do not want to help, I ignore the post.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Don't forget federal excise tax. For fishing tackle it is 10% off the top for manufacturers and it may be the same for ammunition. The form is IRS Form 720 if you want to check. Nevermind - FET for firearms and ammo is not on that form. It must be a separate form.
"Pittman-Robertson Act" 11% excise tax

https://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/fawild.html

[gwpercle]

There are so many Laws ,Ordinances , Rules , Regulations , Statutes , Acts and Guidelines ...
By Federal , State , Parish (County) , City and Subdivisions ....
There is nothing you can legally do any longer !

Everything is either Illegal , Immoral , Fattening or Contributes to Global Warming .
Gary

[Burnt Fingers]

There are so many Laws ,Ordinances , Rules , Regulations , Statutes , Acts and Guidelines ...
By Federal , State , Parish (County) , City and Subdivisions ....
There is nothing you can legally do any longer !

Everything is either Illegal , Immoral , Fattening or Contributes to Global Warming .
Gary

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

A great read about how invasive Government is in our lives.

The basic premise is that the average professional commits several felonies a day...all without knowing about it.

[fredj338]

Last I looked, if you don't do $10,000 a year it's not a business as far as taxes go.

Uh sure it is. IF you make $10K, the IRS wants its cut.

[405grain]

I'm not even going to jump into this swamp - just going to point out that the laws regarding both firearms and ammunition in California are way more restrictive than they are in the United States of America. In America they have this thing called "constitutional rights". In Kommiefornia that doesn't mean so much. Common things like sharing some ammunition with a friend or enjoying shooting sports are either highly illegal, or will result in you feeling the full effects of Karen Cancel Culture's wrath. Please note that I am being sarcastic, but the sad truth is that things which shooters take for granted in other states can cause difficulties here. The less that the state knows, the better off you are.

[Larry Gibson]

For crying out loud folks. An FFL is required to sell guns if you are "engaged in the business" of selling guns. Selling your own personal guns every now and then w/o the FFL is still legal under federal law. Same with selling your own bullets that you cast. If you are "engaged in the business" of making and selling bullets then get the FFL. If you sell a few bullets, cast or otherwise, to friends now and then the FFL is not needed because you're not "engaged in the business.

If the FFL is needed just to sell your own bullets now and then there are a whole lot of law breakers over on the "for sale" forum.....me included. When is the last time anyone on our for sale or trade forum got investigated, arrested or prosecuted for selling bullets w/o an FFL? Some need to take off their conspiracy tin foil hats and just enjoy our sport.

[shooter bob]

Hear hear Larry seams a whole lot of folks take themselves too serious. And are always ready to jump on someone for doing something anything that they deem wrong. Oh well it is the internet after all

[JimB..]

For crying out loud folks. An FFL is required to sell guns if you are "engaged in the business" of selling guns. Selling your own personal guns every now and then w/o the FFL is still legal under federal law. Same with selling your own bullets that you cast. If you are "engaged in the business" of making and selling bullets then get the FFL. If you sell a few bullets, cast or otherwise, to friends now and then the FFL is not needed because you're not "engaged in the business.

If the FFL is needed just to sell your own bullets now and then there are a whole lot of law breakers over on the "for sale" forum.....me included. When is the last time anyone on our for sale or trade forum got investigated, arrested or prosecuted for selling bullets w/o an FFL? Some need to take off their conspiracy tin foil hats and just enjoy our sport.

Truth.

[reddog81]

Truth.

Agree. It really is that simple.

Who's going to come after me for selling 100 bullets for $10 to someone at the range or on this website? The ATF, FBI, IRS, the local federal prosecutor, All of the above?

[reddog81]

You guys are way too scared of the boogeyman.

Look at it from the other angle guys...Someone, anyone, find a single (just one) case of a law abiding citizen going to jail over selling brass, molded boolits, primers, or powder.

The one case remotely close that I can think of is the guy who supplied the Las Vegas shooter and doesn't even fit your criteria and he was only found out after the Las Vegas shooting happened. He had a website and visited gun shows for years and apparently was able to make it work without an FFL. To think someone is going to come knocking on your door for selling a few bullets over this website is insane.

[johnsonian09]

"(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a

###regular course of trade###

or business with the ##principal objective of livelihood and profit## through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;"


If your casting bullets for a day job you need an ffl AND itar liscencing. The ffl is easy. The Itar is a $2500+ fee if I recall correctly.

If your casting to help out a forum member. And they want to buy your 100 grain ingots, at the cost of materials and shipping go ahead.

You can also just label them 'airgun slugs, not for firearms use' with a sticker, and be totally legit. My airrifle and revolver shoot the same boolits. At almost the same speeds sometimes too. Boolit or slug, dont care what barrel it flies from as long as it's the right size.


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[murf205]

If a hammer and chisel is called "burglar tools" by the police department, then I guess a Lee 20 lb pot and a mold would be what? Destructive devices? Gimme a break!

[Geezer in NH]

I believe Trump got rid of the ITAR for non export.

[Buck Shot]

Some need to take off their conspiracy tin foil hats and just enjoy our sport.

No kidding. Some of the replies in this thread sound like they came out of a lawyers' convention ... the only people who, if they can't find trouble, will manufacture some.

[MT Gianni]

Last I looked, if you don't do $10,000 a year it's not a business as far as taxes go.

There are plenty of business that lose money. Several do so intentionally.

[Castaway]

Not to beat a dead horse on this question but most every responder to this question had logical points on both sides of the issue, but logic doesn’t always rule when it comes to the law. Just talked to “Charley” of the Tampa ATF with the question and he emphatically stated whether you sell one or 10,000 bullets you cast, you’re in the business and therefore required to have an FFL. Now that aside, will you be prosecuted for selling a few? I maintain in all likely hood probably not with the small quantities requested; but, as with anything, there’s the possibility. The post was academic, not whether it makes sense or not. As an aside, the forum where the question was asked was not mentioned.

[JimB..]

Not to beat a dead horse on this question but most every responder to this question had logical points on both sides of the issue, but logic doesn’t always rule when it comes to the law. Just talked to “Charley” of the Tampa ATF with the question and he emphatically stated whether you sell one or 10,000 bullets you cast, you’re in the business and therefore required to have an FFL. Now that aside, will you be prosecuted for selling a few? I maintain in all likely hood probably not with the small quantities requested; but, as with anything, there’s the possibility. The post was academic, not whether it makes sense or not. As an aside, the forum where the question was asked was not mentioned.
“Charlie” is full of crap. His response is exactly what you’d expect, his job is to tell you what you can’t do, not what you can do. Besides, you’re asking a LEO a legal question, who thinks that’s a good idea.

[bishopgrandpa]

If I sell 10 pounds of lead, does it matter the shape of the ingots?

[Castaway]

Now the flaming starts. Again, it’s an academic question you’re passing a value judgement upon. If the case is as you state, and Charlie's an LEO, it appears if he wants to arrest you, he can. Is it worth it? We’re each responsible for our own decisions. When I do a risk assessment, it’s not worth it for me.

[JimB..]

Now the flaming starts. Again, it’s an academic question you’re passing a value judgement upon. If the case is as you state, and Charlie's an LEO, it appears if he wants to arrest you, he can. Is it worth it? We’re each responsible for our own decisions. When I do a risk assessment, it’s not worth it for me.

Not flaming, but you should ask the AG rather than the LEO, and you should ask in writing since the specific language makes all the difference. For example, assuming that “charlie” is an expert on the law (he is not) he may still have interpreted your question to mean that you were casting with the intent to sell, in which case his answer makes perfect sense. It doesn’t reflect the fact pattern that we’re discussing, and it may not be what you said. The result is that you post a response that may be accurate for one set of facts, but not our set of facts. It’s also possible that you heard the answer that you expected, but he may have put important conditions on that response and you discarded them as unimportant. Nothing malicious, just the way brains work. Written correspondence is less likely to be misunderstood and more accurately shared.

Not trying to convince you to do anything that you don’t want to, just trying to moderate the paranoia that’s rampant in the hobby.

[Hanzy4200]

No agency is going to hassle you. Every gun show in America has a dozen older guys selling buckets of cast and jacketed bullets. Most even selling their own reloads. If the ATF wanted to collar people for this, they could arrest 50 people a week and do it for perpetuity. This is fear mongering.

I would also add. Are we a free people? When you are afraid to do something you know is not immoral and not nefarious, you are a subject, not a free citizen. The fact that this topic even has to be discussed is sad to me. The guys warning of this will be the first ones lining up to hand in their firearms. Just my opinion.

[reddog81]

Now the flaming starts. Again, it’s an academic question you’re passing a value judgement upon. If the case is as you state, and Charlie's an LEO, it appears if he wants to arrest you, he can. Is it worth it? We’re each responsible for our own decisions. When I do a risk assessment, it’s not worth it for me.

Hogwash. 100’s of non licensed people sell their guns everyday of the week and the ATF doesn’t consider them in business of selling guns. I’ve been to gun shows where random people were walking around selling guns and ammo along with ATF agents being present. You think they’re going to go after someone for selling $10 worth of bullets? The logic is laughable.

[Buck Shot]

Just talked to “Charley” of the Tampa ATF with the question and he emphatically stated whether you sell one or 10,000 bullets you cast, you’re in the business and therefore required to have an FFL.

So...I guess if you sell one GUN (gasp!) from your collection in a FTF intrastate sale or 10,000 guns, by the same logic, you're also "in the business"???

Sorry, nope, not according to fed law. Some states prohibit private firearm sales without a NICS check, but not fed law, which is what ATF enforces.

So the next question is, "You're allowed to sell a GUN without an FFL, but you're not allowed to sell "one boolit"???


“Charlie” is full of crap. His response is exactly what you’d expect

x10

Some LEOs would like it if we had to ask for their permission to breathe. And unfortunately, too many people would happily queue up in line to ask for it.

I like what Machiavelli said: "A government that does not trust its people to be armed is not itself to be trusted." I guess you could say the same thing about "selling a few cast boolits."

[bedbugbilly]

This is just an observation . . . . . the subject discussed seems to pop up every so often . . . .

I always find it amazing when a "law abiding Citizen" worries about if they will break the law if they "do such and such" (in this case sell a few cast bullets they don't need) . . . . so they look up the "law" written by the Federal Government in such a way thatt the interpretation is questionable and which if you contact the Federal Agency will be interpreted differently depending on who the Federal Employee is that you talk to . . . . . laws written by FEDERAL legislators who many times refuse to follow the laws they helped author in terms that even they cannot interpret . . . . the same government who wants to disarm its own law abiding citizens but yet has no problem leaving billions of dollars of weapons that fall into the hands of terrorist organizations . . . . yep . . . . makes perfect sense to me to worry about if you sell a few cast bullets that you don't need. I guess that one way to get around the whole issue would be to call them "fishing sinkers" . . . but if you do, don't forget to pay the Federal 10% Excise Tax for the manufacture of fishing lures . . . after all, the government needs all the money it can get to keep the borders open so the illegals can come in and not pay taxes. I read as many Federal Regulations as I can just so I know that I can't do something that won't allow me to sleep at night. Again . . . just an observation and if in doubt, call your local Federal Agency to get a clarification that if wrong, won't stand up in a court of law . . . so always get a signed written interpretation.

[dverna]

I was not smart enough to to understand some of the wording when I looked into doing a very small side business, but I was smart enough not to ask my questions on a forum. So I contacted the agency involved and after a couple of emails and phone calls I had my answer.

The answer was not what I wanted to hear. It did not seem "sensible" but is seemed legally correct. I abandoned my project.

Seems there are three options:

Follow the letter of the law.

Take the advice of internet "experts".

Do what you want and use "common sense".


I will close my comments with this example. Most of us will agree stealing is a crime. If you rob a bank, it will be treated differently than if you steal a T shirt from Walmart. If you take a sugar pack at a restaurant, it is still stealing but no one seems to care. Of course, in one city, you can walk out of a Target store with $900 of stuff and not be arrested....It may be against the law but the law is not enforced.

Like the beer guy says, "Chose wisely my friend".

[JohnH]

Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. 1st, you gotta be smarter than the equipment. If ya see a thread of someone wanting to buy some of "X" boolit, just post "PM sent" and keep your conversations about the matter off the open 'net. Better yet, just send 'em a PM. 2nd, If you have some of "X" boolit and just want to be a good neighbor and send 'em some, make a post and start a conversation, get an address and ship 'em. 3rd, If you see such post and and are unwilling to engage in a sale because you are so paranoid that the ATF is watching your every move and waiting for an opportunity to nab you up, stand you up in federal court and send you on federal holiday, ignore said post. Wow. Three pages over something so easy to just side step. And to think we play with explosives and pressure vessels every day

[Buck Shot]

...a very small side business...

Ding ding ding I think we found the "magic word" that makes all the difference! (As in "engaged in the business...")

[dondiego]

Ask your friend not to tell the ATF when you sell him the 100 boolits. Problem solved.

[toallmy]

So did I need a federal license to sell box of a hundred Hornady bullets to a member that was looking for some ? Or how about the Speer bullets I purchased from a member ? How would this be any different than a local hardware store selling muzzle loading supplies .

[johnsonian09]

You dont need it for small sales. User to user. If your doing it as a business, you need an ffl or a liscence. For example in the holy state of california, if you sell in excess of 500pcs of 'munitions' per month you need a special liscence, if you are not already an ffl holder. Federally components can be considered munitions.

Selling to your buddy or forum member has no consequences unless you are trying to make a living off of it. If you work a day job your probably not casting bullets for money

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[JimB..]

So did I need a federal license to sell box of a hundred Hornady bullets to a member that was looking for some ? Or how about the Speer bullets I purchased from a member ? How would this be any different than a local hardware store selling muzzle loading supplies .

I think you’re confusing selling with manufacturing. This discussion is about selling bullets that you manufacture, not about reselling bullets manufactured by others. I feel confident that Hornady and Speer are properly licensed.

[358429]

Six months ago I purchased a small cardboard milk box of 200 CCI Mini Mags from Walmart. Does the lady who ran the cash register need a federal license to sell me this??

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[358429]

Sometimes I like to cast 49 caliber round ball, it provides fodder for my Daisy slingshot and keeps me entertained. Do I need a federal license if I decide to sell these? Are they slingshot balls or are they musket balls? Sometimes I cast 95 grain 380 bullets, also to run my slingshot. I have loaded them in my 9mm and shot them and they cycled. Does that make them federally regulated munitions or slingshot projectiles?

What if I get tired of my slingshot and decide to melt them down to solder copper tubing together and make artwork from it? What if I consider my bullets to be artwork? What if my bullet identify as a Priceless French painting[emoji39]


Okok enough with the what ifs im just having fun[emoji3]
Too bad the ATF isn't investigating the sale of arms to the taliban in afganistan, I doubt mr presidential ice cream cone has an ffl 06 and paid itar fees...


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[JimB..]

Six months ago I purchased a small cardboard milk box of 200 CCI Mini Mags from Walmart. Does the lady who ran the cash register need a federal license to sell me this??

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Need more info. What day of the week was it and was she left handed?

[358429]

Need more info. What day of the week was it and was she left handed?Okokok you got me there!! I can't remember and I didn't get the receipt notarized in triplicate

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[358429]

Coming back now it must have been a weekend and she did seem like she may have been wrong handed[emoji1787]

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