Where are the Primers and Powder?

[robertbank]

I just bought another 5lb's of D700X. The powder is made here in Canada and is the equivalent of 700X sold by Hogdon. I suspect it is the same powder sold under a different label. I have lots of pistol powder now on hand albeit in small batches of this and that. I do see an end of my primer supply. What is causing the primer/powder shortages? Is the US armed forces rearming or is this shortage civilian driven?

Tale Care

Bob

[farmbif]

it just might be pretty plain and simple as the were probably about 20 million new gun owners in the US last year and there are a whole bunch of em wanting to make their own ammo since ammo is so very scarce. and now a days when primers come available they are gone in no time flat. I've got a feeling the factories are cranking them out as fast as they can.

[Winger Ed.]

Not sure about military contracts, but civilian demand for ammo is still way up.

Last spring, Hornady said they had a 2 1/2 year backlog of orders.
Orders for live ammo will get filled first, then the excess production of primers and powders will be sent to
the reloaders & component market.

I think I remember reading that ammo and components imported from Russia have been recently banned.
If that's true, it ain't going to help our shortages much.

I've seen SR & SP primers back on the market at a few places.
However; they are running $115--200 per 1,000.

Our LGS has a pretty good stock of ammo again, but its still higher than giraffe lips with generous,
but purchase limits so some rich prepper doesn't come in and clean him out.

Also, new guns are trickling in.
After a 6-7 month back order, my Henry Golden Boy finally came in.

[farmbif]

I think the Russian stuff got banned quite a few years ago, I was hoping all time trump was in office that we would begin to one again see real Russian ak47's and those cute little surplus 7.62 pistols with the leather holsters. but no none nada, and Tula and wolf primers dried up long ago.

[robertbank]

It is odd though. Canada, to my knowledge has not banned Russian components. That said the last Tula primers I got were from the Ukraine of all places. That is what the box they came in said anyway. In this world of changing enemies one can never be sure. I am not aware of the supply train issues involved. You would think importers would be seeking out product from other sources if local manufacturers were unable to fill the void,. I have had good luck with Tula, rebranded Tula "Dominion", and S&B primers in my 9MM pistols, rifles and revolvers.

Oh well this all will pass/ I have heard Covid played havoc in the factories with employee sick leave issues. Hopefully round 4 will be the end of Covid but that may not be the case.

Take Care

Bob

[Murphy]

Hello Robert,

I'm going with civilian driven. This shortage has been THE wild one of the ones I've endured over the decades. New gun owners buying for the first time, along with all the ammunition they could afford, and continuously adding to their stockpile when they can. Those having problems finding ammunition on the shelves, have decided reloading is their last chance. I don't believe there is a worse time I've seen in my life to begin reloading. Some items are slowly coming back, primers being the last. To the best of my knowledge, which some will say isn't much, we only have so many ammunition factories in the U.S. Most of them produce and sell to the general public, and they are also the only ones who make primers. The primers either go into their primary product, or to those of us who reload. The can and will take care of their primary means of survival first, selling loaded ammunition. I'm unaware of any one plant in the U.S. who produces primers alone to supply those who reload their own. But, that's just my opinion. How long before primers become readably available again is anyone's guess. Hopefully, it won't be too much longer. Many, were well prepared long before the shortage began, others were caught short handed. No shame in either. Just a really hard time for those who reload.

Murphy

[rancher1913]

plenty of powder and primers on the shelves at the lgs locally, but your in for sticker shock, primers are 10 bucks for a hundred with a limit of 5.

[robertbank]

Man at $10.US a hundred there has to be price gauging going on. I guess supply and demand and if you are willing to pay it...pony up. I have not got my mind ready for $10.Cdn ($8US)yet . Ig uess it is what it is. I am going to se if Cdn. Tire has some. Their prices tend to be high but if they go them... Has hoarding set in down there? I have heard of guys with 30K primers set aside for a rainy day when they seldom go shooting. Doesn't make much sense to me. In my world there is no way in hell almost 400 million Canadian and US folks are ever foing to be running around living off the land. It worked when there were only 500 thousand or so humans on this continent but that was then is this is now.

Take Care

Bob

[rancher1913]

their shelves are overflowing with ammo as well, its generic stuff in plain white boxs and they want roughly a buck a round for it.

[Red River Rick]

One of the local Mom & Pop shops had/has primers for $65.00 Cdn per M.

I made sure my stash was well stocked after the last shortage a few years ago.
Seems like everything else is available in limited quantities, powder, bullets and brass, but no primers.

RRR

[Wayne Smith]

The civilian market plus the fact that the Remington factory was out for almost two years. Now working full time and producing ammo, I'm not sure if components are on the market yet, though.

[dverna]

This has been a good lesson for many folks. What surprises me are those who have seen shortages in the past and were so ill prepared. I cannot understand it. Especially when primers are absolutely necessary and were so inexpensive for years. I have primers that cost $16/k!

When I looked at stocking for preparedness, I had 3 times more primers than powder for the ammunition I reload. Primers are only produced by companies making ammunition. Powder comes from different suppliers. Even during this shortage, powder has been available...maybe not our favorite powder but something that can be used if need be.

As we see more ammunition becoming available, we will see primers back on the shelves and prices will come down. I think the "new normal" will be in the $40-45 range and that is quite acceptable. If we can start getting primers from Tula/Wolf, that will help not only supply but costs.

[robertbank]

I like to start wach year with a two year supply on hand. Tis equates to 15,000 SPP, 5000 LPP and 2,000 SPMP or SRP, I will be ok for this year and most of next UF nothing else changes. Brass and Lead bullets are never an issue. I orefer FMJ bullets for pistol matches and have a ready supply. For the rest of my shooting I use my own cast bullets so life is good.

Take Care

Bob

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I saw Remington LPP at Scheels a couple weeks back.

[murf205]

It's not just primers in short supply. I needed some 200 gr .375 and 35 cal's to load for a friend who doesn't want to shoot cast?? and called Sierra today and asked if they were EVER going to make any more and the guy I talked to on the phone said it would probably be 2 to 2 1/2 years before they got around to running any since they were low demand caliber stuff.

[MUSTANG]

This has been a good lesson for many folks. What surprises me are those who have seen shortages in the past and were so ill prepared. I cannot understand it. Especially when primers are absolutely necessary and were so inexpensive for years. I have primers that cost $16/k!

When I looked at stocking for preparedness, I had 3 times more primers than powder for the ammunition I reload. Primers are only produced by companies making ammunition. Powder comes from different suppliers. Even during this shortage, powder has been available...maybe not our favorite powder but something that can be used if need be.

As we see more ammunition becoming available, we will see primers back on the shelves and prices will come down. I think the "new normal" will be in the $40-45 range and that is quite acceptable. If we can start getting primers from Tula/Wolf, that will help not only supply but costs.

No more Tula/Wolf Ammo or components to be imported into US as long as Biden and Company are in Office. They have stopped all future imports of Russian Ammo/Components.

[fastdadio]

This week, I was able to get 1K CCI #41 small rifle and 4 lbs IMR 4227. Sad what I had to pay for it, but, I recently bought a rifle that required the small primers, so I really had no choice.

[LAH]

Still loading from my own stock & don't plan to check prices before next year. I can shoot at least 3 years at my present rate. After that it will be air rifle I guess.

[dverna]

Still loading from my own stock & don't plan to check prices before next year. I can shoot at least 3 years at my present rate. After that it will be air rifle I guess.

I have already gone to air rifles for plinking and fun shooting. Many benefits, but not for everyone. Some folks like recoil, noise and a resounding clunk when hitting steel. Then there people who love to clean/prep brass, cast/lube bullets and reload. Air guns are not fun if those are important needs.

I really enjoy mine, but I went with PCP’s and they are effortless. It is pleasant not to need hearing protection on those hot days.

My primer inventory is going to last a lot longer and I can keep shooting at a significant reduction in cost and time “wasted” reloading and casting. The majority of plinking I do does not require 125-200 gr bullets at 1000 fps.

[Tar Heel]

I agree with Murphy in post #6. This is the mother of all shortages and has lasted the longest as well. Going on 2 years now with no end in sight either. In fact, it's worse with the import bans and those that will surely follow with the current administration and these new edicts being put forth from the King.

While new gun owners are impacting the production ammo available, they generally, are not handloaders. Pre-Covid handloaders did, I believe, stock up years ago based on experiences learned from the previous shortages from election year scares and such. Now that their supplies have been consumed, they too are back in the market for replacement stock as well as the new handloaders who decided to load as a facet of prepping. The seasoned handloaders and casters (hobbyists) are really feeling the pinch.

I don't see any immediate end to this latest one and life as we knew it in the casting and handloading world may not return to anything recognizable from the past. May be time to learn to SCUBA dive or run that Nikon D7300 camera better. I wonder if DougGuy can throat a Nikon?

[Buck Shot]

Here's where I check:

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/reloading-components-in-stock-running-topic.4034059/

(You'll need to go to the last page.)

[GhostHawk]

Youtube, God, Family and Guns Channel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugDKOCD6GSU

According to them we are 2 years behind in Nato ammo stocks.
So the powder and primers are going into nato ammo for the big manufacturers. Leaving only a few small independants to produce ammo we want.

I don't see this going away any time soon.

[Finster101]

"
According to them we are 2 years behind in Nato ammo stocks.
So the powder and primers are going into nato ammo for the big manufacturers. Leaving only a few small independants to produce ammo we want.

I don't see this going away any time soon."


I wonder how much NATO ammo Biden&Co. just gave away.

[Texas by God]

Since Biden and cronies are in good standing with the Chinese - can we start getting primers and ammo from them???

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[robertbank]

Have you guys not banned the importation anything firearm related from China? We get the ammo and firearms but I don't recall ever seeing Chinese made primers.

Take Care

Bob

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Primers are starting to show up at retail outfits. I have seen Remington, CCI and Winchester recently. Prices are from .05 to .07 each.

[robertbank]

Primers are starting to show up at retail outfits. I have seen Remington, CCI and Winchester recently. Prices are from .05 to .07 each.

That is good news. We will see how prices fall into place up here. Hopefully we will se a supply of Russian and Eiropean primers come in tp keep prices down. Time will tell.

Take Care

Bob

[rintinglen]

Clinton banned Chicom firearms importation, but I don't know about ammunition or components.

[farmbif]

just went through the out of stock primers on powder valley
seems the new normal is going to be $60-$95/1000

[Finster101]

Primers are starting to show up at retail outfits. I have seen Remington, CCI and Winchester recently. Prices are from .05 to .07 each.

Maybe where you are.

[uscra112]

This isn't the longest drought in my lifetime, (well it would be if I were 100 years old). During WW2 the civilian market went without any ammo, primers or components for FOUR YEARS. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. This was why Fred Huntigton started swging bullets from .22 rimfire cases. (They were still copper then, not brass.)

[turtlezx]

my father was lucky buddy worked at savage (utica ny) in the shoot gallery testing loads
during ww2 brought home ammo every week

[cga]

just went through the out of stock primers on powder valley
seems the new normal is going to be $60-$95/1000

A local shop had some for $14.99 a hundred. Passed them up.

[Shawlerbrook]

I really find it hard to believe that the new gun owners have jumped right in to reloading and caused the shortages. I chalk it up to the political climate and material and labor disruptions caused by Covid. Also, the increased demand for loaded ammunition from shooters old and new have caused the components to go to the commercial ammo companies rather than us reloaders. Yes, the new normal for primers will be $60-100/1000 when they are finally available.

[Froogal]

I really find it hard to believe that the new gun owners have jumped right in to reloading and caused the shortages. I chalk it up to the political climate and material and labor disruptions caused by Covid. Also, the increased demand for loaded ammunition from shooters old and new have caused the components to go to the commercial ammo companies rather than us reloaders. Yes, the new normal for primers will be $60-100/1000 when they are finally available.

I agree with you, up to a point. I find it hard to believe that the NEW gun owners are the cause of the ammo shortage. YES, the new owners probably DID buy a box or two of ammo when they bought the gun, and they may have visited a shooting range and burned up some of that ammo, but it's a safe bet that MOST of them simply lost interest after that and have not bought another box of ammo since.

[LAH]

I have already gone to air rifles for plinking and fun shooting. Many benefits, but not for everyone. Some folks like recoil, noise and a resounding clunk when hitting steel. Then there people who love to clean/prep brass, cast/lube bullets and reload. Air guns are not fun if those are important needs.

I really enjoy mine, but I went with PCP’s and they are effortless. It is pleasant not to need hearing protection on those hot days.

My primer inventory is going to last a lot longer and I can keep shooting at a significant reduction in cost and time “wasted” reloading and casting. The majority of plinking I do does not require 125-200 gr bullets at 1000 fps.

Yes the joys of air rifle. I shoot a springer wearing a T-shirt during winter in the comfort of my basement. I love watching the hole appeared in the target.

[GhostHawk]

It does not surprise me given that 50 round boxes of 9mm were selling for 80 to 120$ at the time.

[dverna]

It does not surprise me given that 50 round boxes of 9mm were selling for 80 to 120$ at the time.

Yep. But 9mm is now down to about $35/box. Those new gun buyers will get 3 or 4 boxes and think they are well prepared and stop buying. Prices will continue to fall as demand drops and supply increases.

And once the shelves are flush with ammunition, we will see primers coming back on stream. Companies will keep producing as quickly as possible until things return to normal.

One other thing I have been pondering. I suspect QC is taking a back seat to production, and that will continue for the near future. I plan on buying primers to restore my inventory but will wait about 6-12 months after there are plenty of primers on the shelf and plants are not pushing out anything that will sell.

[Burnt Fingers]

I really find it hard to believe that the new gun owners have jumped right in to reloading and caused the shortages. I chalk it up to the political climate and material and labor disruptions caused by Covid. Also, the increased demand for loaded ammunition from shooters old and new have caused the components to go to the commercial ammo companies rather than us reloaders. Yes, the new normal for primers will be $60-100/1000 when they are finally available.

How do you explain the shortage of reloading equipment??? It's starting to get better but Dillon is still 12-18 months out on pistol dies.

Powder has been available quite a bit if you're fast. Same for primers.

[Froogal]

How do you explain the shortage of reloading equipment??? It's starting to get better but Dillon is still 12-18 months out on pistol dies.

Powder has been available quite a bit if you're fast. Same for primers.

No, powder is not available. Not the kind that I use anyhow, and I've not been able to find primers anywhere. I've stopped even looking. If I run across some at a gun show, I will buy some, but I done checking with the on-line suppliers.

[Finster101]

How do you explain the shortage of reloading equipment??? It's starting to get better but Dillon is still 12-18 months out on pistol dies.

Powder has been available quite a bit if you're fast. Same for primers.



Your own statement about needing to be fast proves it is not readily available and most of us are just lucking in to it if we find it. I am in good shape on powder but still grab the more commonly used ones when I see them because I have friends happy to get it.

[Shawlerbrook]

I explain the equipment shortage the same way I explain shortages in computer chips, appliances,etc.....raw materials and labor disruption from supply, manufacturing to truck drivers to ship the components and products. I believe that the new gun owners put a bite on loaded ammo, but these people buying their first gun and jumping right into reloading in large enough numbers to cause supply disruptions....not buying it.

[rockrat]

9 mm ammo here has dropped to around $20 a box.

Some Powder, no primers

[farmbif]

if you go to the imrpowder web site when the page first opens it says where is all the powder q&A. when I click on it my computer blocks the pop up window. maybe some one who is more computer savvy can get it to open and tell us what they have to say

[Soundguy]

Bass pro the next county over gets a box of primers in about every week. 80/1000.

I know tula/ wolf primers got banned..what about s&b?

I still have some boxes of s&b and wolf at 20$..when prices were good.

[Finster101]

if you go to the imrpowder web site when the page first opens it says where is all the powder q&A. when I click on it my computer blocks the pop up window. maybe some one who is more computer savvy can get it to open and tell us what they have to say



288703

Sorry can't get the PDF to display in the post but it opens fine when clicked on.

[gsdelong]

If it is of any use I was at Morrison’s in Asheville NC today they had lots of powder, although calling first would probably a good idea. I was not a buyer so I did not take notes several 8 pounders though.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Our lgs got 60K of spp recently. Winchester and CCI. Limited to 200. Was all gone in a little over a week. That's just 12 cases though it sounds like a lot.

[murf205]

I just bought another 5lb's of D700X. The powder is made here in Canada and is the equivalent of 700X sold by Hogdon. I suspect it is the same powder sold under a different label. I have lots of pistol powder now on hand albeit in small batches of this and that. I do see an end of my primer supply. What is causing the primer/powder shortages? Is the US armed forces rearming or is this shortage civilian driven?

Tale Care

Bob

Our President gave all the powder and primers in the form of loaded ammo to the Taliban!

[Burnt Fingers]

Bass pro the next county over gets a box of primers in about every week. 80/1000.

I know tula/ wolf primers got banned..what about s&b?

I still have some boxes of s&b and wolf at 20$..when prices were good.

S&B got out of the primer market a few years back.

[robertbank]

S&B got out of the primer market a few years back.

Somebody must be still making S&B branded Primers as they are still being imported into Canada. I bought 5K last spring. Dealer is now out of them and waiting for a new shipment. Price was $4.50Cdn/100. This was just before prices took a hike and primers disappeared off the shelves.

Take Care

Bob

[farmbif]

took a trip to town, l one gun store had about a dozen 1lb containers of hodgdon powers left from shipment they got in recently, $33/lb they had 335 and super performance , 4831, titgroup and a bunch others. they had 6 big boxes of new ammo on counter the just came in and had yet to be unpacked.
they also had shelf full of 250count boxes of Hornady bullets, one stack was .308 250 grain-- I took double look--who shoots 30 cal 250 grain bullets?

[JohnH]

No more Tula/Wolf Ammo or components to be imported into US as long as Biden and Company are in Office. They have stopped all future imports of Russian Ammo/Components.

It won't happen after Biden and Company are gone. When have you ever seen an incoming administration reverse a previous administrations import bans? Bill Clinton banned imports of Chinese firearms (and ammo IIRC), that's why you don't see any new in box Norinco products or Chinese blammo which was once very plentiful.

[robertbank]

It won't happen after Biden and Company are gone. When have you ever seen an incoming administration reverse a previous administrations import bans? Bill Clinton banned imports of Chinese firearms (and ammo IIRC), that's why you don't see any new in box Norinco products or Chinese blammo which was once very plentiful.

Sad in a way but politics are politics. Latest pistol from China is there 9MM pistol used by their army. Sells for $270Cdn or $208US. DA/SA polymer frame decocker model. Looks like a well made pistol. At that price I may pick one up just for the heck of it.

https://www.gotenda.com/product/norinco-cf98-%e4%b9%9d%e4%ba%8c%e5%bc%8f-9mm-pistol-2020-new-model

Take Care

Bob

[Mr_Sheesh]

Last night Midway had some LPP and LRP so I snagged 1k of each, trying not to dip into my stores. They do seem to be getting more available, just not "walk into your LGS and buy 5 cases" available.

[hc18flyer]

Today I stopped in at Guns Unlimited in Omaha. They had lots of Hodgdon, Winchester and some IMR, including 4350. No Alliant to be seen. Had a bunch of more common Hornady jacketed bullets too. Said they were told October/November for primers, hope it comes true! I am really only short on small pistol, and I can borrow some if needed from my brother. hc18flyer

[Froogal]

I've been visiting with an acquaintance who lives out on the east coast somewhere. He had mentioned a gun show coming up, so I asked him to check out the primer situation. He got back to me this morning. $250 per one thousand primers, large or small, no limit. I have no idea if any actually sold. For sure, I would have just walked away.

[dale2242]

The last gun show I attended here in SW Oregon had primers for sale at #250 per thousand.
I didn`t see anyone buying them.

[GasGuzzler]

I work at a small town new car dealer that generally keeps a couple hundred new cars. We have five half ton trucks, no other trucks, and seven small crossover SUV's. A friend owns a furniture and appliance store. They can't get couches or parts to fix a 'fridge. Another friend's family owns a chain of fast food restaurants...they can't get pickles, "corn nuggets", or cheese sticks. Their supplier for chicken to make tenders can't keep up nor can the vendor that sells them bottled water with their logo on it.

Sure, demand is high but there is a serious supply side issue across the board. The demand for cars, appliances and furniture, and fried chicken has not gone up like the demand for ammo and components to reload but there are still massive issues.

[LAH]

The last gun show I attended here in SW Oregon had primers for sale at #250 per thousand.
I didn`t see anyone buying them.

Same here. Plenty of powder and ammo at the shows. No body much buying.

[MrWolf]

9 mm ammo here has dropped to around $20 a box.

Some Powder, no primers

Stopped at a pawn shop while waiting on a dentist appointment the other day. They had more ammo than I have seen in a long time. Looked at the price of 9mm - $45 for 50. No wonder they had so much ammo. I made a comment of their ammo appears to be priced at around a buck a round. Basically got a yea, oh well.

[Bmi48219]

Latest pistol from China is there 9MM pistol used by their army. Sells for $270Cdn or $208US. DA/SA polymer frame decocker model. Looks like a well made pistol. At that price I may pick one up just for the heck of it.
https://www.gotenda.com/product/norinco-cf98-%e4%b9%9d%e4%ba%8c%e5%bc%8f-9mm-pistol-2020-new-model


Is that Norico CF98 a single or double stack? The description says:

Upgraded Single stack magazine (2010 old version is a double stack)

The ad pictures a double stack magazine.
Although it is polymer it’s not a bad looking pistol. My personal aversion to all products originating in China not withstanding.

[robertbank]

Is that Norico CF98 a single or double stack? The description says:


The ad pictures a double stack magazine.
Although it is polymer it’s not a bad looking pistol. My personal aversion to all products originating in China not withstanding.

You know as much as I do. I will phone them next week and see if IU can get more info on the pistols. At the price they are selling for they might be worth picking up for a truck gun. My biggest issue with the Chinese pistols is I can't use them in competitions in the US. I have a Norinco 1911. The only "Chinese" parts are the frame, slide and firing pin. The rest off the gun is loaded up with custom parts from the US. C'est la vie,

Take Care

Bob

[Bmi48219]

At the price they are selling for they might be worth picking up for a trick gun. My biggesdt issue with the Chinese pistols is I can't use them in competitions in the US. Bob

For that price they could put them in 5 gallon survival food kits. Most Chinese pistols I’ve seen look like they were based on 1932 designs, that one actually looks pretty modern.
How much red tape is involved when you cross the US-Canadian border with your pistols for competition?

[robertbank]

We get this gun anlong with their 1911 FS and Commander size. Both have great slides and frames and spring steel ejectors and great firing pins. The rest of the pistol is rough. They make great base guns if you want to fully build a custom gun. Super tough steel frames and slides/

As far as going to and from the US it really is a simple process IF you do the paper work first. I fill out a ATF Form 6. On the form I list the pistols and ammunition I intend to bring to the US. Best of my knowledge says 5K rds is the maximum number of rounds.. You fax or mail the forms to the ATF. They do background checks on you and either approve or decline your application. The first time I sent in a form it took about two weeks to get back to me by mail. The last time I did one in 2019 I faxed the form in and it was emailed back to me the next day. I think once you are in their system the background check is done quicker.

When I get to the Border I must have an invitation to the shoot I am going to attend. The US Border folks are courteous to me and professional in every respect. The fastest time I spent at the Border was about 20 seconds. I have been sent to secondary only once or twice. I don't think the officer knew how to handle the forms and it took maybe five minutes of my time and I was on my way. Once I spent about 20 minutes there but that was because the Officer and I spent the time discussing our gun collections. He and I at that time shot the same gun in competitions ie the M&P Pro in 9MM.

The forms are different but the same exercise is required when you guys come up and compete here. I think you do most of the registration etc at the border. You MUST have an invite to a shoot or a guided hunting reservation. You have the right, under our treey with the US to drive to Alaska with firearms. In those instances you are not allowed to detour and visit in Canada. You must travel directly to Alaska. No side trips. If Canadian Border Services think you are planning to vacation in Canada then just return to the lower 48 you don't get in and could face a one year exclusion order. I find US and Canadian Border folks are very Professional and courteous. They do know their jobs and they don't take to lying very well. LOL

Take Care

Bob
ps If I listed a Made in China firearm on my form it would get crossed out. I know this and I have never tested the system. No sense in poking the bear. I believe when you travel you honour the laws and customs of the country you are visiting. Life is so much easoer when you do that.

[Bmi48219]

So you haven’t experienced any issues crossing border either way with pandemic restrictions? Do you have to provide a vaccine passport or proof of a recent negative test?

[robertbank]

So you haven’t experienced any issues crossing border either way with pandemic restrictions? Do you have to provide a vaccine passport or proof of a recent negative test?

He asked me about my experiences crossing the border. The border has been closed since last year to Canadians unless of course we fly to of all places .. Florida or any other State.

Trudeau opened up our land border to US citizens mainly to pacify the Southern Ontario and Quebec tourist industry. He called an election and every vote the bastard can get he is there.

While I have had two shots I have no desire to travel to the US until more of you get vaccinated. Our hospital situation locally is stable this is not true for Alberta our Provincial neighbour next door. That Province opened up their economy fully over the summer and now are paying the price with historical high hospitalization and deaths due to Covid.

Working as a Safety Officer in a State or Province where Covid 19 D version is rampant has little appeal. Biden has not opened the Northern Border to land travel and I would be surprised if he will any time soon. Governors from four border States have asked him to open the border up but I fear it will fall ond deaf ears.

79% of our eligible population (12 years old & over)are fully vaccinated and 85% have had one does as of September 11. This compares to 94% of the US population with one does and 55% with two does.

Take Care

Bob
ps Americans can enter Canada with evidence of two does and a clean Covid test within I believe 72 hours. Personally I would stay home if I were you. Why risk getting Covid.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Just saw this tonight.

https://www.grafs.com/wolf-ammunition-primers

[Bmi48219]

This excerpt explains the ammo side of the ban:

Link for full article below.

“As a background, ammunition from overseas has to be approved by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) for import, usually on what’s called a Form 6. Typically valid for 2 years, this enables US businesses to import ammunition legally. From countries that we’re friends with, like most European ones, Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, and so on, it’s a rubber-stamp affair with only routine scrutiny of the paperwork.
Russia, of course, is a different story. Prior to the current situation, there were already sanctions and embargoes on Russian munitions, but not as far-reaching as this. Specific companies were subject to disapproval, but not the entire nation. So yes, there’s no specific workaround this time like just asking another plant to produce the ammo.
However, existing permits for import will be honored, for now. For example, MKS Supply, the importer of Barnaul, probably has an existing permit to import X amount of ammunition from the Barnaul factory in Russia. That’s actually how it works, the Form 6 has to be for specifics. The importer negotiates with the factory to buy say 3 million rounds of 123gr 7.62x39mm FMJ, and the Form 6 only covers the importation of that amount. It’s why you would see a flood of inventory, then it would taper off - the importer has to place another order and apply for another permit to import that order.
The permit has an expiration, either when the order is fulfilled - if you look at a Form 6 there’s plenty of space to document what you are importing - or when the date, 2 years after approval, hits.
So, the supply won’t be completely tapped out yet. I’m not privy to specific numbers, but I can guarantee importers of Russian ammo still have some unfulfilled and approved orders left in the pipeline.
But, eventually the existing orders will be completed, most likely by this time next year - and then the ban is “real”.
That gives us a little time to maneuver though.”
https://regularguyguns.com/2021/08/22/The-Russian-Ammo-Ban/

[farmbif]

with all the demand and high prices now I think its amazing that we have not seen some Chinese knock offs being pumped into the country the way they do with just about everything else including all kinds of knock offs of legal drugs and illegal drugs and precursors.

[kevin c]

How many shooters reload ammunition? I'd bet no more than 1% of long time gun owners, and, in normal times, none of first timers. And most shooters buy ammo to replace what they've shot, not to stockpile.

If just one percent of non reloaders decided that, in these uncertain times, they wanted to start rolling their own, that could about double demand for reloading components. Add to that panic buying, hoarding and the related scalping of ammo and components related to political and social uncertainty, increased demand from the 7 million new gun owners last year, diversion of components to the ready made ammo market, COVID related supply chain issues, and it's no wonder ammo and components, as well as reloading equipment (what's the wait on Dillon dies up to now, over a year?) are unobtainium.

[Burnt Fingers]

How many shooters reload ammunition? I'd bet no more than 1% of long time gun owners, and, in normal times, none of first timers. And most shooters buy ammo to replace what they've shot, not to stockpile.

If just one percent of non reloaders decided that, in these uncertain times, they wanted to start rolling their own, that could about double demand for reloading components. Add to that panic buying, hoarding and the related scalping of ammo and components related to political and social uncertainty, increased demand from the 7 million new gun owners last year, diversion of components to the ready made ammo market, COVID related supply chain issues, and it's no wonder ammo and components, as well as reloading equipment (what's the wait on Dillon dies up to now, over a year?) are unobtainium.

You just hit the nail on the head.

It's such a small market that any dramatic increase in demand just swamps the supply chain.

[robertbank]

Bmi48219 I speed read the fill article and a lot of the article you quote made no sense to me. First the Biden Ban was said to take effect Sept. 2121. If we assume this is true then the Biden ban has little to do with the present primer and ammo shortages. The shortages have bee around for about a year now. In addition the ATF Form 6 is a form used to allow foreigners such as myself to temporarily import my guns and ammunition into the US. The Form expires one year from date of issue. Unless there is another Form 6 floating around .... Here is a link to the Form. The world is not always defined by by politics and the present ammo shortage has more to do with the effect of Covid then whomever you folks elect in the White House.

https://www.pdffiller.com/jsfiller-desk18/?requestHash=9e2caf0b3937b8a9296c7ab8e7997e78ab640 f2c5bc880ff720f9b0302d7e5c3&projectId=817934706&loader=tips#1acc8e2ce9390f06a974f2efe23f16c1

I have spoken to wholesalers up here who regularly import primers, powders and ammunition from Europe and Asia. The common denominator is merchandise "it arrives when it arrives". What you and I would refer to as "Russian? primers and ammunition has come from the Ukraine or at least that is what is stamped on the boxed. Maybe? Maybe not?

I reread the article and it appears to me to be one that is not particularly researched and directed at the evil "Biden Administration" as opposed to being a reference point to explain the loss of "foreign" primers and ammunition.

I can only really speak to our situation up here. Primers and ammunition from former Iron Curtain countries seems to come in fits and starts. As recent as a month ago I bought Primers that were made in Bosnia of all places. They were in expensive, around $$4.90Cdn. They work but anywhere from 25% to 50% of them require the leverage of a single stage press to fully seat them. That is the truth. I would have a hard time convincing myself to buy them again if they ever become available.

Take Care

Bob

[Wayne Smith]

A lot of stuff from overseas is waiting offshore to be unloaded. I am waiting for a piece for my wood lathe from Record - a British company, and it is somewhere off shore waiting to be unloaded. It was shipped from Britan more than a month ago. Still haven't heard if it is here in the country yet and neigher has Highland Woodworking in Atlanta, where it was to be shipped. No wonder things from overseas come in fits and starts - COVID D has interfered with the landing of ships all over the country.

[8mmFan]

I was at a Scheel’s today. ALL KINDS of firearms available at pretty decent prices. Excellent prices on some, even. Seems they’re a useless object with no demand for them, if folks can’t find the fodder to feed them.

8mmFan

[444ttd]

i was at a lgs and i was talking to the owner and i found out that they got 60lbs of various powders from 300lbs ordered. at another lgs, they have primers, 100 ct/$8.99 cci and winchester lrp, only 1 per customer. $33/ lb of goex/alliant/hodgdon/imr various powders.

gouge much?

[robertbank]

I spoke to my retailer who sold two of us the 10,000 Bosnian primers. He told me Win and CCI are not taking orders for primers right now. They require existing production to keep up demand for factory ammunition plants. No indication when either will be taking retail orders again. We may be waiting awhile.

Perspnally I now have enough primers for the next 18 minths if I cut back abit on the life fire practice.

Take Care

Bob

[Red River Rick]

I spoke to my retailer who sold two of us the 10,000 Bosnian primers................

Take Care

Bob

Bob:

Would you mind sharing whom your supplier is?

Rick

[robertbank]

Reliable Gun out of Vancouver, BC 604 874 4710

Their prices are a bit on the high side for most things. They had those Bosnia Herquvernia (SP) Primers labled CamPro. We have found they are difficult if not impossible to fully seat with a Dillon 550B and a Square Deal. I inspect primer depth at Station 2 of the 550. If the primer is not fully seated I put the case aside and run the next case. When I have completed 100 rds I take the semi primed cases over to my Rockchucker and fully seat the primers. It tends to be a slow the loading down alright and if there wereother primers available I would not have bought more. There are not, so you do what you gotta do. I am hopping S&B primers from France and the Tula's via the Ukraine and the Finish brand get imported into Canada by the spring. I don't think IVI out of Montreal makes their own primers. I get our market is to small to sustain a Canadian primer factory but tax incentives might draw one of the Europeans to make a move here. The US manufacturers are not likely to be interested as they are ahving a difficult time suppling their Domestic market. Things will get back to normal once the Republicans gain either the House or Senate in '22. Until then, I would not count on the US suppliers feeding the Canadian market with primers.

Take Care

Bob

[Burnt Fingers]

I spoke to my retailer who sold two of us the 10,000 Bosnian primers. He told me Win and CCI are not taking orders for primers right now. They require existing production to keep up demand for factory ammunition plants. No indication when either will be taking retail orders again. We may be waiting awhile.

Perspnally I now have enough primers for the next 18 minths if I cut back abit on the life fire practice.

Take Care

Bob

Always take gun store scuttlebutt with a LARGE dose of reality. The truth is that both Winchester and CCI are shipping primers on an almost daily basis.

I've seen both for sale in the past week or two.

[robertbank]

Always take gun store scuttlebutt with a LARGE dose of reality. The truth is that both Winchester and CCI are shipping primers on an almost daily basis.

I've seen both for sale in the past week or two.

Right now I doubt you could find one retailer in Canada with new stock of either. "Out of Stock" appears on virtually all US made primers right now. There are less than a few off shore SPP, SPMP, SRP or LPP in any of the retailers up here. When you do find them they are old stock priced at around $7.50 to $9.00Cdn/100. I don't doubt CCI Win, and Rem are shipping primers. I am not so sure they are going to the reloading market.

Take Care

Bob

ps Compared to the US our consumption of primers I suspect would be served by over runs by the major suppliers. Our Military and LEO requirements would be substantial for loaded ammunition. I doubt hey have any problems getting loaded ammunition.

[Liberty1776]

Something like 5 million people became "new gun owners" in 2020. With gun-grabbing Biden installed in 2021, 3.2 million FBI background checks were made by May 2021, meaning even more "new gun owners" were created in 2021.

If each new owner bought two boxes of ammo (one for practice, one to have some ammo in the house) that is 18 million boxes of ammo, if not more.

Then there's the armed government bureaucracies like the FBI, CIA, Capital Police, the EPA, DoJ and School Board police going after Domestic Terrorist mothers complaining about CRT. Not to mention whatever secret police forces are deployed to arrest Americans and hold them without charges for ten months and counting.

Then there's the hundreds of millions of rounds left in Afghanistan to arm the Taliban.

Then Remington declared bankruptcy and its ammo plant was sold and relocated.

Add to that us real gun guys who buy a box now and then.

Then guys who never reloaded before thought, "Hey I need ammo! I'm getting into reloading!"

Soon, every die, press and pound of powder disappeared, probably sitting in garages, unopened.

I'm guessing every primer in America is dedicated to refilling the ammo supply lines or being hoarded.

Even percussion caps are unavailable from many suppliers.

I suggest you build a flintlock and buy some Triple 7, if you can find it.... :-|

[Soundguy]

Always take gun store scuttlebutt with a LARGE dose of reality. The truth is that both Winchester and CCI are shipping primers on an almost daily basis.

I've seen both for sale in the past week or two.

Shipping primers and not taking new retail orders are not mutually exclusive. They may have a year of back orders to fill..thus shipping daily. The key is reading...

[Burnt Fingers]

Right now I doubt you could find one retailer in Canada with new stock of either. "Out of Stock" appears on virtually all US made primers right now. There are less than a few off shore SPP, SPMP, SRP or LPP in any of the retailers up here. When you do find them they are old stock priced at around $7.50 to $9.00Cdn/100. I don't doubt CCI Win, and Rem are shipping primers. I am not so sure they are going to the reloading market.

Take Care

Bob

ps Compared to the US our consumption of primers I suspect would be served by over runs by the major suppliers. Our Military and LEO requirements would be substantial for loaded ammunition. I doubt hey have any problems getting loaded ammunition.

Here in the US primers are showing up on an almost daily basis...somewhere. These are all new primers.

There's a Discord server you can join to get alerts about in-stock primers. I was subscribed to it but got off the list because of all the alerts.

[Burnt Fingers]

Then Remington declared bankruptcy and its ammo plant was sold and relocated.


I'm guessing every primer in America is dedicated to refilling the ammo supply lines or being hoarded.



The Remington ammo plant was not relocated. It's still in Lone Oak, just as it has been for the past 50 years.

Guess all you want. Primers are out there. Just last week I noticed them for sale at Bass Pro and Academy.

[slim1836]

The Remington ammo plant was not relocated. It's still in Lone Oak, just as it has been for the past 50 years.

Guess all you want. Primers are out there. Just last week I noticed them for sale at Bass Pro and Academy.

Just got back from Academy and SR primers are on the shelves at $6.99/100 with a limit of 4 sleeves per day. No other primers were available. I picked up 4 sleeves for a friend of mine as I have no weapons that use small rifle primers.

Slim

[gpidaho]

I paid more than I would like but I picked up 1,000 small pistol primers this morning from Midway. Gp

[robertbank]

Just got back from Academy and SR primers are on the shelves at $6.99/100 with a limit of 4 sleeves per day. No other primers were available. I picked up 4 sleeves for a friend of mine as I have no weapons that use small rifle primers.

Slim

Slim you can use them in place of SPP. I have not noticed any difference in performance over the Chronograph or on paper..

I just picked up 5,000 SPP made on Bosnia. Shipping and taxes included came to 5.62/100Cdn ($4.50US), They work but do require extra seating effort. About 50% won't fully seat using my Dillon 550, Those go to my single stage RCBS for fully seating. No US made primers on the shelves at any on my favourite retailers. I suspect when they arrive they will be in the $8.00/100 range minimum.

Take Care

Bob

[dverna]

Bob,

The information on the Bosnian primers is interesting. I would not use them for the progressive loaders but if they had the same sizing variation in SRP they should be fine for loading .223 with the RCBS bench primer.

I doubt we will see them in the US, but if they show up that is good information to have. Thanks for posting.