1871 mauser help

[cosmoline one]

Its been almost two years to get all the parts I needed to have a functional rifle, but now I've encountered a problem.Although the barrel is marked 10.95 I drove a round ball(.490") into the muzzle and got .449". I sized Missouri Bullet Co.'s 325 gr "slammer" down to .451", BUT the rounds won't chamber!
What diameter boolits are you guys using? Does anyone have a few .448"-.447" boolits they'd like to sell or trade?
I'd like to know what will work before I buy a mold or more boolits

[snipin101]

Hello, I am not experienced in that round or that rifle but I am going to guess there should be room for it to fit. One problem I have seen is when flaring the case mouth is to get to much of a flare that the round will not chamber. Are you crimping the rounds? If not I would just for fun crimp one and see if it fits. Also is the bullet seated out to far and hitting rifling before it gets completely chambered?

Sent from my moto g power (2021) using Tapatalk

[hpbear101]

I am assuming you have the 1871 (single shot) and not the 1871/84 repeater.

For my 1871 I had good luck with Lee 45-70 HB bullet sized to .451, this will not chamber at this point, I then ran the loaded round back into the sizer die to size it down a bit more. Just make sure it chambers freely, you don't want to have to force it closed as there will not be enough room for the cartridge to expand and release the bullet without an increase in pressure.

My final solution was to go with the Accurate 45-370Y heeled bullet that has a .44 shank and .459 front driving band.

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-370Y

The original was a soft lead bullet that was paper patched, upon firing the black powder the bullet would obturate into the rifling.

The 1871 is a very interesting rifle, the down side is the chamber dimension as you have found out and the vast majority of information on loading is actually for the 1871/84 which is a very different setup.

Tom

[cosmoline one]

HPBear " I then ran the loaded round back into the sizer die to size it down a bit more."
What sizer did you use? I tried to use my lee 45 acp crimp but buckled a case. I also use my .452" lee sizer but it still won't work.

[ascast]

yes pm me. it too late for me to explain this. you will be best served by pills in the 444 to 448 range. really, as big as you can chamber comfortably. You will have to play with bullet/powder/alloy combos to find what suits you. If you want top end performance, use black, dead soft bullets paper patched if needed, with grease beeswax cookie under bullets. 44-77 bullets might work if you have a buddy with one. RCBS 44-370 OR LYMAN 446110 are good choices but the Lyman seems to have had a wee design change over the years. Some shoot well others not at all good. Please do not let anyone send you down the 43 Spanish trail. They are not the same and require bullets 7 or 9 thousands bigger. The Spanish bullet 439186 will shoot, maybe at low velocities, or over black. It is not a good choice. Be sure your dies make a flare for seating. The Lees dies do not. good luck

[rockrat]

IIRC, when I was playing with my 71/84, I was using .450" bullets and was turning the necks of the brass so they would chamber

[Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang]

Post a photo of the rifle if you got one. I sometimes shoot my French Gras rifle, which I guess would be the enemy rifle of your Mauser 1871

[Mark Daiute]

is your chamber stepped or rapered? you probably need a healed bullet.

[Gunor]

Can I get reamer to open the neck/throat? To be able to load normal Boolits?

[hpbear101]

HPBear " I then ran the loaded round back into the sizer die to size it down a bit more."
What sizer did you use? I tried to use my lee 45 acp crimp but buckled a case. I also use my .452" lee sizer but it still won't work.
Sorry I should have specified the 11MM Mauser sizing die that you initially sized the cases with.

[Blue2]

I have measured many Model 71s and Model 71/84s . The bore size runs quite close between them but with some variations . The groove depth is much greater on the Model 71s than on the 71/84s . I understand that the Model 71s were loaded originally with black powder and a paper patched bullet . The later 71/84s were not used with a paper patched bullet but they did have the hollow base bullet design for bullet expansion. I have had reasonable success with running a 45 Colt reamer into the neck of the chamber and then using 451/452 diameter bullets . 45ACP dies can be used to neck size and seat bullets . a .446 diameter bullet is correct for the Model 71/84 but if you are not paper patching you will get better results using a larger diameter bullet provided it will chamber .

[Gunor]

I have measured many Model 71s and Model 71/84s . The bore size runs quite close between them but with some variations . The groove depth is much greater on the Model 71s than on the 71/84s . I understand that the Model 71s were loaded originally with black powder and a paper patched bullet . The later 71/84s were not used with a paper patched bullet but they did have the hollow base bullet design for bullet expansion. I have had reasonable success with running a 45 Colt reamer into the neck of the chamber and then using 451/452 diameter bullets . 45ACP dies can be used to neck size and seat bullets . a .446 diameter bullet is correct for the Model 71/84 but if you are not paper patching you will get better results using a larger diameter bullet provided it will chamber .

Thanks about the 45 Colt reamer…

[cosmoline one]

HPBear, thanks for the reply. I used your method & I do see this as a way forward as I was able to chamber one afterwards( but not before I get buckled another case!) I'll be loading up a few to try out. Does this reduced diameter(I assume after resizing) shoot well for you?
Also, with that boolit (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...bullet=45-370Y), do you still resize the loaded round?

[hpbear101]

They should shoot for you you may/may not get some leading.

I do not resize the cases after firing which is good for case life and works well if your loading for a single chamber, I de-prime with a handmade de-primer.





The 370Y comes with a .440 heel diameter, I find this to be slightly loose in my fired brass. I just run the case mouths into a 30-06 (270 308 any case derived from 30-06) and it sizes the case mouth down, I use a lee universal case mouth expander to flare the brass, then seat to the where the heel ends. Note I am using 45-90 brass that is still 2.4" long and they chamber fine. If I was ordering the 370Y mold again I think I would specify a .443 heel diameter.

288962

On left is a loaded round with the 370Y on right is a 1866 Chassepot cartridge loaded with same bullet.

As mentioned earlier the original was a soft lead bullet, paper patched over black powder. If anyone knows of a source for the bullets I would like to buy some and giver it a try.

Cosmoline one I sent you a message!

Tom

[cosmoline one]

HPBear,
Got your PM and thank you again. Thanks also to those who helped me here & in this thread also https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?391072-WTB-1871-Mauser-parts
I was able to shoot off a few rounds and they worked well and formed good cases as well
-But I cut them a little short. Of course I had to aim at the bottom of the target to hit near the top at 100 yds
bertram case at right, 45-90 conversion on left
289061

[hpbear101]

HPBear,
Got your PM and thank you again. Thanks also to those who helped me here & in this thread also https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?391072-WTB-1871-Mauser-parts
I was able to shoot off a few rounds and they worked well and formed good cases as well
-But I cut them a little short. Of course I had to aim at the bottom of the target to hit near the top at 100 yds
bertram case at right, 45-90 conversion on left
289061

I made all of my cases from 45-90 I didn't bother to trim them and they chamber fine, just one less step and more time for shooting :)


Tom

[cosmoline one]

Mine need trimming (crushed the 1st case I tried to shove in). Trimming is easy, filing the rims down is the bigger pain

[Eddie1971]

Are you guys loading black powder. BP substitutes or smokeless? I wanted to do BP but now after Hodgdon closed down Goex there is none to be found.

[uscra112]

Can I get reamer to open the neck/throat? To be able to load normal Boolits?

This is the ultimate solution.

The '71 Mauser was designed for a dead soft swaged bullet, paper patched. (I have a couple dozen). The bullet was sized small so it would enter a fouled throat. They counted on the soft bullet obturating to groove diameter when fired. Hence the small neck.

As far as I know this was carried over into the 71/84. At least mine has the small neck. In all my research I have not come across any source that suggests that they later used a hollow base bullet.

The Canadians had a lot of '71s and 71/84s that were used as cheap hunting rifles. Hence the CIL factory turned out smokeless ammunition for them. The cast, grooved bullet diameter was .446, if memory serves. I have some of that, too,. but it's too buried in the gunroom to go measure just now.

I've never confirmed it, but Paul Matthews wrote that a number of American rifles made circa 1880s also were designed with the small neck, because the paper patched bullet was high tech at the time. (Probably copying Mauser.)

[cosmoline one]

Eddie1971
Smokeless using Trapdoor 45-70 loads (starting loads for me of imr3031)

[Gobeyond]

Is it ok to mention a bullet maker? On GB, maple wood bullets can now make .448, black powder lube 9 or higher bhn. Using the sizing die to smooth out the neck is a good idea @HPBear101 works well.