Primer cost

[Walks]

I help an old Cowboy buddy to reload his .44Mag Cowboy Loads. I do all the case prep, and cast, PC & size his bullets. All he has to do is set down at the Hornady L-N-L, put in a bullet and a case and pull the handle.

He buys, lead, powder & primers. We're OK on supplies for quite some time to come.

He bought some primers yesterday.

$135 plus tax for 1,000 primers.
I am stunned, this is from a retail distributor with 4 Retail locations. A very Large seller. It's disheartening to see a reputable establishment take such huge advantage of the current situation.
Needless to say, I'll never shop in their stores or shoot at their indoor range again.

[Thumbcocker]

I walked away from some last Saturday for $100 per thousand.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[cwtebay]

And I got them for $3.97/100 for LRP, SRP, SMPP yesterday afternoon.
I believe WE are supporting these prices that you're witnessing. Maybe slow down on your plinking, bet that they'll be within normal soon.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[c0wb0y84]

Just curious as to what parts of the country are seeing primers on the shelf at stores. No one near me or anyplace that I’ve visited in the south east has seen primers on a store shelf since last fall.

[rancher1913]

no one around here has had primers for a year, so I rather imagine there are a few around here that would gladly pay that.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

They were $60/1000 last week at Scheel's though you were limited to 200.

[dverna]

No primers at the LGS for at least six months.

[Bmi48219]

No primers locally at any price for a year now.
Ammo is around but expensive. Read where the number of 4473 forms submitted in 2021 is up over this time in 2020. Strong Firearms sales for 2021 could exceed last year, ammo sales will likely follow suite.
Domestic ammo manufacturers will need even more primers to fill shelves emptied by the Russian Ammo ban. I’d be surprised if we see a good supply of primers before next summer.

[Eddie2002]

I've pretty much used up all my large rifle primers and have started to dip into my supply of berdan primers. Luckily some of the calibers I shoot are mil surplus and have berdan brass available which I pack ratted from range brass. The whole ammo shortage has slowed down both my shooting and reloading. Since berdan primers are found in most military ammo and is made over seas I don't think we will see any more of them for a long time which is a shame since some of the berdan brass is really nice quality.

[ReloaderFred]

The guy who works the gun counter at our local chain store asked me if I'd sell him some primers for his personal use. They normally carry reloading primers, bullets and powder, but now there's just fishing gear on the shelves that used to hold those items. This chain has a lot of stores, with some serious buying power, but they can't get any product at all. When they do occasionally get a pallet of loaded ammunition in, it's usually sold out within a couple of hours, even with a two box limit.

If there's one thing I've learned from the shortages of 1968, 1994, 2000, 2008 and now, it's to try to stock up for when the supply chain breaks down. When this shortage ends in the next year or two, prices won't be going back to pre-shortage levels, since inflation is on the rise, and will most likely continue for some time. My wholesale primer supplier has 3/4 of a million primers on back order from Federal, with no estimated delivery date. Federal stopped taking back orders a few months ago, and I would venture a guess that the rest of the manufacturers have done the same.

There are no companies who make primers strictly for the retail market. All the primers we used to buy were surplus to the needs of the ammunition manufacturers. When they made enough primers for the loaded ammunition they were making, then we got the surplus. Now, there's no surplus in this market. Sig just announced that they're going to build a primer manufacturing facility to fill their needs, since they've been depending on the major players for their supply, too. Hornady is in the same boat, but they haven't announced any plans to make their own primers. MagTech and S&B haven't imported any primers to the U.S. in several years, and that's also impacted the market.

I don't look for the primer shortage to ease up any time soon, at least not this year........

Hope this helps.

Fred

[remy3424]

They were $60/1000 last week at Scheel's though you were limited to 200.

My buddy said our local Scheels has the same price on CCI 400s last week...not sure on the limit, but the same price.

He needs them but left them at that price.

[Thunder Stick]

Traveling last month, I bought primers for $6.70/100 at Cabelas in Washington state. Limited to 5 per customer.

I can’t find LP or SR primers anywhere in Southern California.

[Ed K]

A number of things that were inflated by COVID/Fed stimulus are never coming all the way back down. I find it interesting there are a number of folks that feel confident we will be purchasing primers at $25-30/K in the not too distant future.

[fatelk]

I learned a long time ago to not get put off be price increases. For example, back in the late '90s I used to buy a little precious metal. I do mean a little; I was "economically impaired" back then, but whenever I had a few extra dollars, I'd buy a couple ounces of silver. One year I bought a Krugerand, think it cost me about $350. Silver was under $4/oz. In 2000, I got my first good paying job. I was still young and single, and suddenly had money coming out my ears. I figured it was a good time to buy some more coins, but when I saw that the price of silver and gold had risen, I didn't. $6/oz for silver?! Too much! I'll wait until it comes back down to $4. We all know how that turned out.

Like all of us here, I hope supply catches demand at some point soon, but I also expect that could be a while. In the meantime, I'd have no problem paying $60/k for what I need. I don't like it, but it's really just a couple extra cents per round. The actual dollar cost to keep doing what I like to do is pretty minimal. I've found that often it's the numbers rather than the actual dollars that bother us. For example, I've known guys who would go to a gun show, spend hours searching and haggling to get the absolute very best deal on a new gun, then get into their $60k truck and drop another $100 at a nice restaurant on the way home.

Was it the money or the numbers that had him haggling his new hunting rifle down to the last penny? An extra $20 wouldn't have affected his checkbook in the slightest, but he sure "felt good" about getting a "great deal".

I bought several thousand LP primers a while back, was glad to get them at $50/k. The only thing I'm a bit low on now is SP primers. I'd jump at the chance to buy a couple thousand at $60k, but I haven't seen any for sale around here in quite some time for less than double that. I'm not quite ready to pay that much, just yet. Maybe when I get down to my last box.

[slohunter]

Cabela's had primers for $6.50 a hundred. Nope, let them sit.

[Four-Sixty]

My question to you all would be; if primers did go back to $40 per thousand, how many would you see yourself keeping on hand?

I would not mind having 100k or so

[Hossfly]

At $40 a thousand I personally buy enough to outlast me.

[ReloaderFred]

My question to you all would be; if primers did go back to $40 per hundred, how many would you see yourself keeping on hand?

I would not mind having 100k or so

If they were $40.00 per hundred, I'd give up reloading when my present supply runs out.[smilie=s:

On the other hand, at $40.00 per thousand that makes it $200.00 per case of 5,000, which isn't that far off the mark from what retail prices were before all this started. I'd buy a few more cases at that price, just to tide me over until I go to the reloading bench in the sky.....

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Four-Sixty]

Yes, I meant thousand. Woops!

[Cosmic_Charlie]

My question to you all would be; if primers did go back to $40 per thousand, how many would you see yourself keeping on hand?

I would not mind having 100k or so

I would buy 10K of small and large pistol.

[uscra112]

Back during WW2 there were no primers, (or loaded ammo for that matter) for four whole years. None. Zero.

Flintlocks and black powder became very attractive. There was never a shortage of Holy Black.

Just sayin'.

[jonp]

yesterday at a gunshow I saw primers at $150/thousand. I was very disappointed in seeing those prices along with a few cans of powder at $40-$45lb. Didn't see anyone buying any. Don't get me started on the silly ammo prices. $40 for a box of 30-06?''

One guy did have a few boxes not only of Tula primers but tula ammo which surprised me.

My question to you all would be; if primers did go back to $40 per thousand, how many would you see yourself keeping on hand?

Good question. If you figure out the price per round loaded I'd buy at 40 if I needed some with no problem. The only thing I don't have an adequate supply of is LRM but I don't use that many so the thousand or so I have is good enough until I find another thousand at a reasonable price

[remy3424]

At $40, I am not buying any until I need them...at this pont, I should have a decade supply, if I get shooting more. Only exception is LRM...if I get to shooting my 338L.

[rbuck351]

At $40 per thousand, I probably wouldn't buy any as I currently have more than I will likely use for the rest of my life. I was caught once with a primer shortage about 50 years ago. I have not ran out of supplies since and plan on keeping it that way.

With the current increase in the money supply (inflation) I don't see primers much below $40 ever again.

[Burnt Fingers]

There are no companies who make primers strictly for the retail market. All the primers we used to buy were surplus to the needs of the ammunition manufacturers. When they made enough primers for the loaded ammunition they were making, then we got the surplus. Now, there's no surplus in this market. Sig just announced that they're going to build a primer manufacturing facility to fill their needs, since they've been depending on the major players for their supply, too. Hornady is in the same boat, but they haven't announced any plans to make their own primers. MagTech and S&B haven't imported any primers to the U.S. in several years, and that's also impacted the market.

I don't look for the primer shortage to ease up any time soon, at least not this year........

Hope this helps.

Fred

Umm...not according to CCI. Several million new shooters, panic buying by older shooters, panic buying by reloaders, many new reloaders, it all adds up to a perfect storm. Most major ammo companies have over a year's worth of backorders. Vista reports over a BILLION dollars worth of backorders for ammo.

The 2008 shortage ended well for me. A local gun store had ordered pallets of primers. They all got shipped at the same time. They had stacks of primers all over the store. You could hardly walk around the place due to the number of primers. They HAD to move them to pay the invoice. They had them priced at $100 a case.

I bought as many cases as I could afford. I wish I had bought more.

Later on when Cabela's had the S&B primers for $15-$17.50/1000 I bought a BUNCH. I wish I had bought more.

I actually went into this shortage pretty well stocked. I wanted to be better stocked. I knew the election would screw up the supply. The China Virus screwed up the supply a few months in advance. I had wanted to have 50K each of large and small pistol primers on hand. I had to settle for around 37-38K of each.

I've cut back my shooting as I have no idea how long this shortage will last. But I do have primers.




My question to you all would be; if primers did go back to $40 per thousand, how many would you see yourself keeping on hand?

I would not mind having 100k or so

I think $40/1000 will be the new normal...if things go back to normal in the next year. The announced price increase put primers at that $40/1000 mark. I buy as many as SWMBO will let me buy. I have the go-ahead to spend $1k as soon as I find a good price. I will then try and buy at least a case a month after that. I'm already planning for the 2024 election.

[ReloaderFred]

Those stacks of primers were surplus to CCI's needs for their own loaded ammunition at the time. I've been attending the SHOT Show since 1990, and have talked to all the manufacturers, and they all tell the same story. When they have excess primers, those primers are sold to distributors, who sell to wholesalers, who cater to the reloading market. If there are no extra primers after they supply their own needs for loaded ammunition, then the distributors and wholesalers don't get any, etc.

The largest profit for the manufacturers is in loaded ammunition. The margin on components is less than loaded ammunition, so it just makes good business sense to make the products that are going to benefit the bottom line the best, and currently, that's loaded ammunition, since they can't keep up with demand.

At the 2009 SHOT Show, Fiocchi announced at the show that their entire production for the year had been pre-sold, and they were taking orders for 2010. Most of the other companies were announcing similar "news", since the SHOT Show is always held in January, which meant most of them didn't have any additional product for sale until the following year. I would imagine it will be the same in the upcoming SHOT Show this coming January. This year's show was canceled.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[dverna]

At $40/k, I would purchase 150-250k primers depending on how the market is trending.

I have enough primers to last a few years, so I can be patient.

[uscra112]

I suspose I should thank my lucky stars that I'm a single-shot rifleman, and not a "combat pistol" sport or an AR blaster who expends 1000s of primers a month. I've got a 5-6 of bricks of each type I use put by, and at my advanced age this will last me out, barring acts of God or the public enemy.

[Buck Shot]

Where on earth is anyone finding ANY primers at ANY price???

Inquiring minds want to know!

[dverna]

Where on earth is anyone finding ANY primers at ANY price???

Inquiring minds want to know!

Lots on Gunbroker...but you must really need them to pay what they are asking.

[rbuck351]

There is a auction house close to me that usually has primers about once a month but they sell for stupid prices. Before the shortage I would buy any I could get at 2 cents each or less. I got stocked up fairly well.

[roverboy]

I also saw some a couple weeks ago at $100 a thousand for Lg pistol.

[FergusonTO35]

My local shop has been getting a trickle of primers in. The owner keeps them in the stock room and only sells to established customers at semi-normal prices. He said he is sick and tired of flea market carnies who never shop there otherwise trying to buy his stock to flip at 3X the price.

[zarrinvz24]

I found some yesterday. $9.99+tax per hundred. I said no thanks.

[str8wal]

I found some yesterday. $9.99+tax per hundred. I said no thanks.

I told my LGS they could keep their 6.99/100 primers

[Boogieman]

Was iin a local " discout store" today, they had a few at $130 per 1000, I left them there

[John Boy]

Vista Outdoors has already posted their 2022 prices for their primers by grade increases ….2 to 8%

[Idaho45guy]

I saw CCI SPP primers once a couple of months ago in the LGS. Bought the max of 200 for $4 per hundred. Went back the next day for more and they were gone. First time I'd seen them in a year, and haven't seen them since.

Was at Walmart yesterday and did my usual walk by the sporting goods counter and massive empty ammo case. The guy at the counter asked if there was anything I needed help finding and I said, yeah, primers, powder, bullets, or ammo. He laughed and said they don't carry reloading supplies anymore and that they do get ammo in every now and then.

I told him I haven't seen ammo in a year at Walmart.

He said that it comes in at 6am and is gone by 8am, but the days it shows up is random.

Not going to drive 30 miles out of my way to stop by Walmart every morning at 6 am.

[Idaho45guy]

I found all of the CCI primers...

They are on Gunbroker being sold for outrageous prices by opportunists. Normally, I'm a big supporter of the free market system, but I get the feeling that the people selling them on Gunbroker have somehow figured out how to game the system and are taking advantage of gun owners. When they do pop up locally, they are about 10% more per 100 than they were before. So people selling them at these outrageous prices are just out to make as much money as possible.


https://www.gunbroker.com/Ammunition-Reloading/search?Keywords=CCI%20500&Sort=13


288425

[slim1836]

I also saw some a couple weeks ago at $100 a thousand for Lg pistol.

Same here, local gun store price is 10 cents each.

Slim

[Dale53]

I was straightening up my reloading room, today, and found a note with my primers. I had bought a bunch in 2014 for $27.00 per 1000. That was a good price at the time. I consider that pretty close to "normal". When and if they get close to that I'll buy a supply again. Until then, I have enough to get along...

Dale53

[BigAlofPa.]

Before all this started. I bought 4 cases of primers. small rifle small pistol large pistol and large rifle. 600.00. for all 4 cases. 2 cases were CCI they were 145 ea. The other 2 federal. They were 155.00 ea. I don't like how they are packaged for putting them in the flip tray. Only tried one sleve. Im still working from boxes of 1000. I had before i bought in bulk.

[reddog81]

$135 plus tax for 1,000 primers.


People paying outrageous prices are the problem. Prices will drop once people stop panic buying.

[uscra112]

Since there is NO supply entering the marketplace for the next year or two or three, don't plan on prices falling back to what you imagine are "reasonable" levels before the end of the second Trump administration.

Add to that the twin spectres of inflation and supply chain disruption, which are already driving up prices for raw materials, labor, and overhead.

If your sport depends on hundreds or thousands of rounds a month, plan on buying loaded ammo, because that's where the primers will be.

If you're loading deer-hunting ammo, ten or even fifteen cents per primer isn't going to break the bank.

[LAH]

At 40/1000 I would purchase $1500.00 or so.

[dverna]

Primers will come down in price. Learn from this and plan for the future when things get back to normal.

It is not the end of the world if you have to cut down or stop shooting for a few months. Like uscra112 posted, even at current prices, we can hunt and defend ourselves without going bankrupt.

Now is a good time to evaluate how important shooting is to you as you plan for the future. One answer is to maintain a 5 year safety stock...another is to dial down shooting during shortages...and for others, to stop recreational shooting during supply/price events.

There is no one right answer for all....but there is a right answer for you.

[megasupermagnum]

The last big shortage must have been 2011ish. I don't remember seeing a good supply of primers again until at least 2013, and It wasn't until 2015ish things got back to where they should be.

[ddixie884]

At 40/1000 I would purchase $1500.00 or so.

Me too............

[762 shooter]

If you want to shoot, and you need primers, you will pay the going rate.
I am stocked, but I like shooting too much to
not buy primers if I need them.

762

[Buck Shot]

I was straightening up my reloading room, today, and found a note with my primers. I had bought a bunch in 2014 for $27.00 per 1000.

Yep, I just checked, and November 2014 was the last time I bought primers in bulk, too.

CCI41 were $33/M, Russian SRM primers were $20/M and Russian LR primers were $23/M from Wideners.

I guess the days of those good Russian primers (at ANY price) are over. Thanks Joe!

[Handloader109]

New Retail price of primers is pushing $60 per thousand. That is what a retail store should sell for IF they had stock to sell.
I've got most probably more SPP and SRP than I'll ever need. But would like a few thousand more LRP as I don't have many and would like to make sure I can shoot those guns when I want. Would I buy LRP at $60? yep, Probably $300 or 400 worth and probably that much more in SRP and SPP if below $60

[dverna]

New Retail price of primers is pushing $60 per thousand. That is what a retail store should sell for IF they had stock to sell.
I've got most probably more SPP and SRP than I'll ever need. But would like a few thousand more LRP as I don't have many and would like to make sure I can shoot those guns when I want. Would I buy LRP at $60? yep, Probably $300 or 400 worth and probably that much more in SRP and SPP if below $60

I like the way you think!!! If the "new normal" winds up at $60/K it is not a deal killer for me either. This is my hobby and $500 dollars a year more is not going to matter.

Wish you were closer as I would gladly trade you LRP for SPP.

[Shawlerbrook]

Agree with the 2 above. Although non existent around here, I would ( and will) buy a lifetime supply at any price $60 or below. For those not willing to buy them at $40/1000 please let me know where they are at that price.

[AnthonyB]

Handloader, I am in Northern AL if you ever make it this way. I have more LP than SP…..
Tony

[littlejack]

I was in the Pro Shop at my local gun club a month ago. They haven't had primers of any kind for over a year. Low and behold, they had about 15K of the CCI-41 SR. The price was 149.00 per K. I did pass. It's not that the purchasing agent is gouging the members, but it's the price he had to pay to get them to the members. He knew that the price was way high, but the request for primers had not stopped. Some have been sold though, even at that price. The local Sportsmans Warehouse is getting more ammunition and powder on the shelves, and yes, the prices are high. No primers though. So maybe things are loosening up some.

[FergusonTO35]

Powder has been the really hard thing to find here, especially anything suitable for .223/5.56. Bullets are almost back to normal supply, of course at higher prices.

[imashooter2]

Drove 80 miles to the largest reloading stock in PA. They had 2,000 .50 BMG primers on the shelf and that was it. I did find an 8 pound jug of 4227 for a fair price and that followed me home for 300 BLK. That jug will exceed my small rifle supply. Still plenty of large rifle and both pistol sizes, but small rifle is a problem.

[Four-Sixty]

For those not willing to buy them at $40/1000 please let me know where they are at that price.

This is what I was looking to find out. If prices can get back to $40 per thousand, I think there are a few of us who'll be stocking up. It'll probably take even longer for primers to get below $40 per thousand, if ever.

[Catshooter]

My local shop has been getting a trickle of primers in. The owner keeps them in the stock room and only sells to established customers at semi-normal prices. He said he is sick and tired of flea market carnies who never shop there otherwise trying to buy his stock to flip at 3X the price.

Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing here. I have a friend with an FFL and he's tired of the same. He's got 12 or 13 thousand LP primers on the shelf but he'll only sell to those he knows. He get's $45 a thousand.

I feel sorry for those without the resources or they're new to shooting. Old guys who weren't paying attention or thought it couldn't happen to them can go hang as far as I'm concerned. I saw what a poor job Bush was doing way back then and knew our next Idiot in Charge would be a democrat so I stocked up then. Glad, too. This could be the new normal.


Cat

[Burnt Fingers]

New Retail price of primers is pushing $60 per thousand. That is what a retail store should sell for IF they had stock to sell.
I've got most probably more SPP and SRP than I'll ever need. But would like a few thousand more LRP as I don't have many and would like to make sure I can shoot those guns when I want. Would I buy LRP at $60? yep, Probably $300 or 400 worth and probably that much more in SRP and SPP if below $60

That's not what Scheel's is selling them for.

They are going for $3.99/100 when they have them.

Announced price increases would put them in the $38-$40/1000 range right now.

[Burnt Fingers]

Those stacks of primers were surplus to CCI's needs for their own loaded ammunition at the time. I've been attending the SHOT Show since 1990, and have talked to all the manufacturers, and they all tell the same story. When they have excess primers, those primers are sold to distributors, who sell to wholesalers, who cater to the reloading market. If there are no extra primers after they supply their own needs for loaded ammunition, then the distributors and wholesalers don't get any, etc.

The largest profit for the manufacturers is in loaded ammunition. The margin on components is less than loaded ammunition, so it just makes good business sense to make the products that are going to benefit the bottom line the best, and currently, that's loaded ammunition, since they can't keep up with demand.

At the 2009 SHOT Show, Fiocchi announced at the show that their entire production for the year had been pre-sold, and they were taking orders for 2010. Most of the other companies were announcing similar "news", since the SHOT Show is always held in January, which meant most of them didn't have any additional product for sale until the following year. I would imagine it will be the same in the upcoming SHOT Show this coming January. This year's show was canceled.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Explain to me how Scheel's is getting primers on a weekly basis????

There sure as heck aren't any "surplus to needs" primers on the market right now since ammo is so backordred.

[robertbank]

I get the shortage caused by Covid, military demand and normal retail requirements. That said competition demand has to be down due to restrictions imposed to combat the virus. What I don't get are folks who are storing up primers and powder fearing the end of the would scenario. To me the latter makes little sense. Having 100K of primers set aside to some imagined catastrophe adds to an artificial demand that hurts all of us. Now if shooting is your game and you do shoot tens of thousands a year fill your boots.

Just saying.

Take Care

Bob

[reddog81]

That's not what Scheel's is selling them for.

They are going for $3.99/100 when they have them.

Announced price increases would put them in the $38-$40/1000 range right now.

Scheels in West Des Moines had large pistol and small rifle last month. All prices were $70 to $80 per 1000

[30calflash]

Posted a response similar to this on another forum.

Have a budget for primers/ powder/ ammo. $30 a week, a month, whatever. You buy what you need at the going rate, 20 rounds, 300, whatever. If you don't have the scratch or nothing you can use is available add it to the next installment period.

Doing it this way you purchase less when the cost is high, more when the cost is low. Like a mutual fund. You get the item you need without doing without, especially with hunting season coming.

Folks will squawk over $40 a bx for ammo when it was $20, but the increased cost of fuel to get to your hunting area or a room to rent has gone up far more than a $20 bill and folks will think nothing of spending it for that. Or a new truck. Or $6 a cup coffee.

It's a small part of the equation, don't get wound up over it, life is too short.

[Idaho45guy]

I get the shortage caused by Covid, military demand and normal retail requirements. That said competition demand has to be down due to restrictions imposed to combat the virus. What I don't get are folks who are storing up primers and powder fearing the end of the would scenario. To me the latter makes little sense. Having 100K of primers set aside to some imagined catastrophe adds to an artificial demand that hurts all of us. Now if shooting is your game and you do shoot tens of thousands a year fill your boots.

Just saying.

Take Care

Bob

That's very Canadian thinking of you. Just saying, lol.

[rototerrier]

For the first time in my short 43 year life I'm finally beginning to think things are not going to get better. We are in an ever increasing decline. To me, it seems more likely everyone will be wishing primers were still 100/k in the foreseeable future.

You folks that would stock up big at 40/k might want to dig deep and get it done now at 100. Prices might drop, but what if they don't? Yes, you may have overpaid but your final price per round with still undoubtedly be less than retail so you'll still be on the upside.

It's still a win either way at 100/k. Keep waiting and you may be left sitting with your proverbial manhood in your hand wishing you'd acted when you still had the opportunity.

Reminds me of the old joke where the guy died stranded at sea waiting for god to save him while passing up several means of salvation... of which god had sent. Or maybe something even simpler, A bird in hand...

[Shawlerbrook]

Although almost all online outlets like Graf’s, Midsouth, Midway,etc. haven’t had them for a while, their listed price is $60-70/1000. I think that will be the new normal when and if the supply becomes available.

[Battis]

A few weeks ago, I bought 1000 Small Rifle primers for $80. I used to pay (as we all did) $4.00 to maybe $6.00 per hundred. I also remember what gas prices used to be. The store had a good supply of the primers, plus powder (I bought a pound of Titegroup for $26, which wasn't bad, but I also bought a pound of IMR4227 for around $40, which is high). I went back to the store a week later and they had replenished their stock of primers and powder, but, for the first time in awhile, I did not feel that panic need to buy more.

[robertbank]

That's very Canadian thinking of you. Just saying, lol.

Well I guess you gotta have experience to a different view point. It can't hurt any of us to look at things through a different lens. Disappointing to see what we tolerate from the fringe these days. I am talking about Canada now. The crazies up here get way more ink than they deserve and our politicians seldom take them head on. It didn't work for Chamberlain back in the day and it sure is not going to work for Trudeau & Co. up here either.

Take Care

Bob

[Burnt Fingers]

A few weeks ago, I bought 1000 Small Rifle primers for $80. I used to pay (as we all did) $4.00 to maybe $6.00 per hundred. I also remember what gas prices used to be. The store had a good supply of the primers, plus powder (I bought a pound of Titegroup for $26, which wasn't bad, but I also bought a pound of IMR4227 for around $40, which is high). I went back to the store a week later and they had replenished their stock of primers and powder, but, for the first time in awhile, I did not feel that panic need to buy more.

I've never paid that much.

My last purchase was 10K of Winchester small pistol primers for $30/1000

That was way back in January of 2019.

[hc18flyer]

At a local gun show this past weekend there were small amounts of primers @ $150. per 1,000. I have enough for now, but will reduce my shooting before paying close to that! hc18flyer

[Red River Rick]

When reloading components were in short supply a few years back, I made sure that I wouldn't get caught short handed when the next wave hit.

I picked up primers at $40.00 per M and bought all I could. I have more than enough to last me.

RRR

[slohunter]

I'll reduce my shooting, mine will last me the rest of my life. Last time I bought primers, 1981, $9.95 a thousand, thought that was too much, they were $7.98 a thousand for years!

["Spoon"]

I learned after the great .22 famine that when there is an abundance that's when you buy. I am not saying I won't buy primers at the current $69/1000 (Scheels), because I did. I just have a phobia digging in to what I have without replacing it. Am I going to hoard? No! But if I should come across a deal, all bets are off.

[uscra112]

I used to say "it's not hoarding until you have more than lifetime supply".

I wasn't a hoarder until age-related infirmity reduced my rate of primer consumption for me.

Now I am one.

[LAH]

Or $6 a cup coffee.

I draw the line there. :grin:


One answer is to maintain a 5 year safety stock

The route I took.


I learned after the great .22 famine that when there is an abundance that's when you buy.

I was close to exhausting my supply of 22LR then. That won't happen now. You are correct, buy when they are plentiful & stack them deep. ;-)

[Burnt Fingers]

I learned after the great .22 famine that when there is an abundance that's when you buy. I am not saying I won't buy primers at the current $69/1000 (Scheels), because I did. I just have a phobia digging in to what I have without replacing it. Am I going to hoard? No! But if I should come across a deal, all bets are off.

I learned this lesson over 30 years ago.

These shortages have been going on for at least that long that I know of.

I'm squirreling money away every month waiting for the supply to get better and the price to drop. I have picked up an additional 48 lbs of powder in the past year, but still can't get Clean Shot.

[dverna]

I get the shortage caused by Covid, military demand and normal retail requirements. That said competition demand has to be down due to restrictions imposed to combat the virus. What I don't get are folks who are storing up primers and powder fearing the end of the would scenario. To me the latter makes little sense. Having 100K of primers set aside to some imagined catastrophe adds to an artificial demand that hurts all of us. Now if shooting is your game and you do shoot tens of thousands a year fill your boots.

Just saying.

Take Care

Bob

Sir, those who stockpiled over 100k primers are not the cause of the current shortages or pricing. That demand was satisfied when suppliers offered sales/reduced shipping/reduced HazMat to promote primer sales. EVERYONE could have stocked up then!

It is the unprepared who are driving up prices....not the prepared, because those who prepared do not need any. So you should be thankful some crazies have well over 100k primers and are not part of the problem.

If every reloader had kept a four or five year supply of primers, this would have been a non event. You may not understand why someone has 100k primers...I cannot understand why someone has a one year supply.

[robertbank]

Sir, those who stockpiled over 100k primers are not the cause of the current shortages or pricing. That demand was satisfied when suppliers offered sales/reduced shipping/reduced HazMat to promote primer sales. EVERYONE could have stocked up then!

It is the unprepared who are driving up prices....not the prepared, because those who prepared do not need any. So you should be thankful some crazies have well over 100k primers and are not part of the problem.

If every reloader had kept a four or five year supply of primers, this would have been a non event. You may not understand why someone has 100k primers...I cannot understand why someone has a one year supply.


What you describe is a perfect example of hoarding. I doubt most shooters load and shoot more than 1K to 3K primers per year. Those who participate in action shooting sports yes. The average shooter not likely. Less for hunters for certain. With the distribution systems we have here in NA the only reason to buy in bulk is to gain some advantage on pricing. Even then if you are shooting a box or two of ammo per month having 10K primers on hand would last you about 10 years and 100,000 primers 100 years easy.

There are some pretty dedicated casters on this forum and some, with out a doubt, consume a large volume pf powder and primers per year but I certainly get the impression from the comments folks post here that most do not.

It is no coincidence that every time a US Election comes a along the drum beats of gun legislation rise up like clock work and those who tend to be Republican voters and center right Democrats go on a firearm/component buying spree. Without the 2nd Amendment up here we do have real concerns when a Liberal Giv't takes power but in the US? From watching what goes on down there the chances of meaning full anti gun legislation ever getting past at the Federal Level is about as close as a snow balls chance in hell. This isn't to say, it takes some effort to keep the Democrats fingers off the turn button on the stove. Just not very likely.

Shortages of components up here tend to lag behind the shortages in the US. One reason is the volume demands are significantly lower per population and as a result, the amount of powder and primers required to service the demand is much lower. The recovery time to our shortages falls behind the US as US suppliers fill domestic demand sooner. Some of the lag time is made up from off shore suppliers frim France, Czech Republic, China, Russia/Ukjraine, Finland and Canadian production. The US producers still provide the largest amount of components I would suggest.

If the new normal for pricing is the US is going to be around $6.00 per hundred you are suggesting a primer supply costing $6,000US. She who knows best might have something to say about that kind of purchase...just saying.

Note: My election cycle explanation is a little weak I admit but there sure seems to be more than a coincidence. Given the number of people who deny Covid exists it may serve as as good as an explanation as any.

Take Care

Bob

[Burnt Fingers]

What you describe is a perfect example of hoarding. I doubt most shooters load and shoot more than 1K to 3K primers per year. Those who participate in action shooting sports yes. The average shooter not likely. Less for hunters for certain. With the distribution systems we have here in NA the only reason to buy in bulk is to gain some advantage on pricing. Even then if you are shooting a box or two of ammo per month having 10K primers on hand would last you about 10 years and 100,000 primers 100 years easy.

There are some pretty dedicated casters on this forum and some, with out a doubt, consume a large volume pf powder and primers per year but I certainly get the impression from the comments folks post here that most do not.

It is no coincidence that every time a US Election comes a along the drum beats of gun legislation rise up like clock work and those who tend to be Republican voters and center right Democrats go on a firearm/component buying spree. Without the 2nd Amendment up here we do have real concerns when a Liberal Giv't takes power but in the US? From watching what goes on down there the chances of meaning full anti gun legislation ever getting past at the Federal Level is about as close as a snow balls chance in hell. This isn't to say, it takes some effort to keep the Democrats fingers off the turn button on the stove. Just not very likely.

Shortages of components up here tend to lag behind the shortages in the US. One reason is the volume demands are significantly lower per population and as a result, the amount of powder and primers required to service the demand is much lower. The recovery time to our shortages falls behind the US as US suppliers fill domestic demand sooner. Some of the lag time is made up from off shore suppliers frim France, Czech Republic, China, Russia/Ukjraine, Finland and Canadian production. The US producers still provide the largest amount of components I would suggest.

If the new normal for pricing is the US is going to be around $6.00 per hundred you are suggesting a primer supply costing $6,000US. She who knows best might have something to say about that kind of purchase...just saying.

Note: My election cycle explanation is a little weak I admit but there sure seems to be more than a coincidence. Given the number of people who deny Covid exists it may serve as as good as an explanation as any.

Take Care

Bob

These shortages last at least a couple of years. If someone only shoots 1000 rounds a year then they should have at least 2K primers on hand. Personally I'd say have a case on hand.

In a normal year I'll shoot somewhere around 25-30k of pistol ammo a year. I try and keep at least a two year supply on hand. When things get back to normal I'm going to work on having a 5 year supply.

I also don't think that primers are going to settle in at $60/1000. Announced price increases have them at $38-$40/1000 right now.

A shortage will always drive up prices. When the shortage is over prices will drop. I wouldn't doubt that about a year after things return to normal we're going to see all kinds of free shipping/free hazmat offers just to move primers out of the warehouse...just like last time.

[robertbank]

These shortages last at least a couple of years. If someone only shoots 1000 rounds a year then they should have at least 2K primers on hand. Personally I'd say have a case on hand.

In a normal year I'll shoot somewhere around 25-30k of pistol ammo a year. I try and keep at least a two year supply on hand. When things get back to normal I'm going to work on having a 5 year supply.

I also don't think that primers are going to settle in at $60/1000. Announced price increases have them at $38-$40/1000 right now.

A shortage will always drive up prices. When the shortage is over prices will drop. I wouldn't doubt that about a year after things return to normal we're going to see all kinds of free shipping/free hazmat offers just to move primers out of the warehouse...just like last time.

I hope you are right. That would put them around $5.00Cdn for US brands. Tula et all would then be around $4.50.

Take Care

Bob

[762 shooter]

I don't understand the logic.

If you buy 100k primers and you shoot them it's OK.

If you buy 100k primers and keep them you are a " hoarder ".

762

[762 shooter]

Loaded rounds will always be more expensive than hand loads.
762

[LAH]

Am I a hoarder? I buy stuff on sale so I don't have to at retail or inflated prices. I plan to use everything I buy, not just enjoy looking at it. I purchased 50,000 SRP at a rock bottom price not long before the current shortage. I now have 32,000 left. I really don't consider that hoarding. I call it planning. And I know there are those who send more rounds down range than I. So, a 100,000 primers..........not as many as one may think.

[imashooter2]

Hoarding... Folks that only shoot a few hundred rounds a year don’t recognize the logistics required by those that shoot many thousands a year and wish to continue doing so through times such as we are experiencing right now. I tend to ignore their shrill screams and carry on with my plans.

[robertbank]

The line up for folks with $7,000US in their pocket to buy 100,000 primers forms on the right. Even at $40.00 per thousand most with families are not going to rush out with $4,000US to buy the 100,000 primers. Guys who shoot 2K per year hardly need a 50 year supply of primers. Guys who are in their early 30's don't have the money and guys in their late 50's shooting 2K rds per year are delusional of they think they need a 50 year supply.

Take Care

Bob

[Markwell]

We are new to this forum but not cast bullets or reloading, being an OLD pre-USPSA/IDPA practical shooter and serious Prairie Dog/gopher shooter. We are now a year and a half into our forth (or fifth?) "ammo crisis" and fortunately can continue shooting as much as we want. Much of the invective here is the same as on other forums; "you don't need that much" or "you don't understand why I have so much". Trust me, there are "shooters" and then there are all the other gun owners. The shooters we know, having seen this movie before, have prioritized and planned for this (and previous similar events) and are not the problem. Buy cheap (and when available) and stack it deep is not just a cliché it's a lifestyle choice.

[LAH]

Most the sleeves [5000] I purchased were 80 bucks or there 'bouts. 20 sleeves would be 1600.00. At the time I could have 50 pounds shipped from Powder Valley for about 1.5% of the total order. It was the same with 6 jugs of powder. At current prices I wouldn't do that plus at 70 I don't feel the need.

[GL49]

We are new to this forum but not cast bullets or reloading, being an OLD pre-USPSA/IDPA practical shooter and serious Prairie Dog/gopher shooter. We are now a year and a half into our forth (or fifth?) "ammo crisis" and fortunately can continue shooting as much as we want. Much of the invective here is the same as on other forums; "you don't need that much" or "you don't understand why I have so much". Trust me, there are "shooters" and then there are all the other gun owners. The shooters we know, having seen this movie before, have prioritized and planned for this (and previous similar events) and are not the problem. Buy cheap (and when available) and stack it deep is not just a cliché it's a lifestyle choice.
Good post.
I also bought cheap and had them stacked deep. At my age and by some of the definitions I'm one of the hoarders, with more than I need for my own use. I purchase when they're plentiful and at an "on sale" price. Yep, I sure don't need that much. Now all the guys at work come to me 'cause "Larry's got primers he'll sell". I sell them at the same price I paid, I don't see any reason to gouge my friends. They've learned their lesson and they'll plan for next time, like I do. I guess I'm part of the problem, creating more hoarders, but you can also compare it to the grasshopper and the ant.
Did you know the ant must have been a hoarder? Seems to me he just planned for the future, like some of us do.

[cwtebay]

I guess I am in the ant classification. I have always figured purchasing a few hundred primers here and there, a couple of pounds of powder, maybe some lead, jacketed bullets, brass....to be a good diversion for me. Some call it "retail therapy". I have never been accused of being a hoarder, but I've also never been caught with my pants down. I don't understand how someone wouldn't keep at least a reasonable supply of historically difficult to find items that they enjoy. I also don't understand how someone decided that February 2020 was a perfect time to start stashing away for a hobby that they have never even explored. I went to a house this week for a "sale". The new resident had definitely overextended his means storing everything from AR's to reloading components (most of them not even compatible with the firearms he owns!!!), to seeds and fishing supplies, canned goods, flour, toilet paper to the ceiling, and on and on. He has roughly 200,000 primers of various types for sale - he wants a flat $500/1000 for them, AR's at $5000 apiece for entry level.
Ironically, he had a "garden" with plants that appear to be more appropriate for 1000 miles south of him, a bone thin cow and bull that will be his beef factory, and an Amazon order chicken coup. And a Mark 7 Evolution reloading press(still looking like the plastic wrap on the handle hasn't been broken).
He is struggling with finances so a mutual acquaintance took me there after a gunshow. His preferred payment is Paypal, he has around 500 gallons of gas stored, and has fenced his property with barbed wire that it looks like he just unrolled it on the ground.
Point being - that's a hoarder. Has no business with any of what he had for sale - meaning no knowledge of what he had gathered. I do not deny his right to have purchased it, nor his right to use it as a commodity as a means of survival.
I do believe that this gentleman is not an uncommon tale though - and I believe that his ilk are likely to keep component prices high.
To the fellas that have a couple hundred thousand primers and powder/brass/bullets to go with them? Good on ya!! You probably know your obsession, and have been through this is the late 2000's. That's your business, not mine, not anyone else's. And chirping on the internet about how awful someone is - it's just that - chirping. I have found that it's often from someone that decided to wait, and is now jealous of someone else's foresight - poor grasshopper.

It amounts to your opinion on wearing a mask or vaccination or the COVID in general - you do you. Stop trying to decide that your rights don't stop where someone else's begin.

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[uscra112]

Was anybody buying anything?

[jaguarxk120]

Today at a show SE Michigan primers were $75/K. NO I did not buy any,
if and when the run on guns slows down primers will be in greater supply.
With all the new guns sold today and those buy's purchasing cartridges
for those guns, primers and powder will be in short supply!

[imashooter2]

If I needed primers, I would buy a couple thousand at $75 per. But as we’ve been discussing I can wait for better deals.

[BigboreShooter]

I shot 9,939 rounds in 2020! Half of them center fire. I’m 66 years old .I have in excess of 40k in primers. Am I a hoarder?

BigBoreShooter

[Four-Sixty]

So, if you've worked hard, been responsible with your money and bought only 2 firearms a year for 20 years you could easily own 40 firearms.

If you wanted to leave them to your children, and ensure they could actually enjoy them (after having lived through several component droughts) doesn't it seem reasonable to have a boat load of powder and primers?

[LAH]

So, if you've worked hard, been responsible with your money and bought only 2 firearms a year for 20 years you could easily own 40 firearms.

If you wanted to leave them to your children, and ensure they could actually enjoy them (after having lived through several component droughts) doesn't it seem reasonable to have a boat load of powder and primers?

Very reasonable.

[Bmi48219]

The Biteme 2 year ban on Russian guns & ammo isn’t going to help primer supply any. Or ammo supply either. Domestic ammo manufacturers have ramped up production but I’ve heard they use a lot of foreign supplied primers.
There are other non-Russian manufacturers that can boost output to fill the ammo shelves here but doing so will require primers too.
I watched one guy that mentioned Russia is the sole supplier of 5.45 mm ammo. He advised selling your 5.45 weapons while prices were still good.
Some ammo is showing up sporadically, but most is in the commonly used calibers. I’d imagine cartridges like 41 mag, 38 S&W, 38 Colt, 32 short & long and the like are pretty scarce and will be for a while.

[Catshooter]

Those who have little to no imagination find it quite easy to criticize the thinking and planning of others as they literally can't imagine why someone would think the way they do. They find it easy to yell "hoarder" or some other derogatory term (that they don't even understand) without any thought that there could be something outside their universe.

Quite common. Unsightly, pathetic and sad, but quite common.


Cat

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Our lgs has been getting them. Some powder too. I picked up 800 spp last week over 4 days. Got a couple thousand from Brownells a couple months back. So I'm holding steady. I really only need pistol primers these days as I have a lot of rifle, shotgun, .22 and 9mm ball ammo on hand. I wish I would have ordered about 20k of pistol primers back in January of 2020 when i started to get cagey about things. Never thought it would get this bad. But things do seem to be improving slowly.

[LAH]

I wish I would have ordered about 20k of pistol primers back in January of 2020 when i started to get cagey about things. Never thought it would get this bad. But things do seem to be improving slowly.

Hang in there Charlie. Like you I'm seeing improvement.

[slohunter]

I shot 9,939 rounds in 2020! Half of them center fire. I’m 66 years old .I have in excess of 40k in primers. Am I a hoarder?

BigBoreShooter

Not at all, more like smart!

[NyFirefighter357]

I found CCI small rifle primers Sunday $189/1,000 only one box left. I left them but I'm sure they won't last on the shelf. Very few primers making there way here.

[almar]

I tagged all the primers "notify me" on the midway website and i keep getting notices, i have to admit sadly that i was caught off guard once again with this shortage so i did buy a few boxes of 1000, i did not feel good about it but it was either that or run out. Now i send those notices straight to the trash, i'm not buying more, not at that price. Ironically i shot more rounds this years that in the past except that they were through my percussion revolvers. Caps are even rarer than primers but i make my own, same with powder and obviously bullets. I never though i would ever enjoy it but i do, unfortunately many seem to have done the same because those revolvers are in a shortage/price hike phase as well...

[Pereira]

A number of things that were inflated by COVID/Fed stimulus are never coming all the way back down. I find it interesting there are a number of folks that feel confident we will be purchasing primers at $25-30/K in the not too distant future.I haven't seen any less than $34/1000 since Summer before last.
I bought 2000 then, then at the end of that same Summer I bought 3000 @ $40 ea.

RP

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

[dverna]

So, if you've worked hard, been responsible with your money and bought only 2 firearms a year for 20 years you could easily own 40 firearms.

If you wanted to leave them to your children, and ensure they could actually enjoy them (after having lived through several component droughts) doesn't it seem reasonable to have a boat load of powder and primers?

People like that are not very bright if they don’t have a boatload of components and/or ammunition. What good are guns you cannot shoot?

I sold over 20 guns to fund my ammunition and component inventory when I smartened up. By buying in bulk and during sales, primers averaged under $25/k and powder $20/lb.

Folks with more than 10 guns and no ammunition or components have not chosen wisely.

[uscra112]

Tools, too. Whoever gets my .28-30-120 and my .32 Ideals is going to need dies and moulds.

[Wooserco]

Sorry, didn't read all of the threads.

My LGS just got a stock of small pistol primers in. He's selling them at his cost (I've known the man all of my life, he's telling me the truth).
No thanks, I'll pass.

[imashooter2]

Sorry, didn't read all of the threads.

My LGS just got a stock of small pistol primers in. He's selling them at his cost (I've known the man all of my life, he's telling me the truth).
No thanks, I'll pass.

His cost which is?

[dverna]

His cost which is?

Back in January/February, I know one shop that paid $100/k. Primers came from a “hoarder”. I do not know what market prices are now.

[imashooter2]

Back in January/February, I know one shop that paid $100/k. Primers came from a “hoarder”. I do not know what market prices are now.

I was hoping to find out the actual dealer price as opposed to the gun broker price. [smilie=l:

[Pereira]

I was hoping to find out the actual dealer price as opposed to the gun broker price. [smilie=l:That would be nice.
Good luck.

RP

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[dverna]

I was hoping to find out the actual dealer price as opposed to the gun broker price. [smilie=l:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/04/01/winchester-ammo-price-increase/

Here you go...25% increase on primers is their last announcement.

[imashooter2]

So 25% up from what? The price is still unclear. Theoretically Wooserco has the answer.

[reddog81]

Back in 2018 you could get Winchester primers on sale for under $25. A 25% increase of that retail price would be just over $30.

LGS could be selling for $75 a box and still be selling at "his cost". I'm guessing the manufacturer, wholesaler and distributer all have increased their mark ups.

[uscra112]

LGS may be buying online at scalpers' prices just to have SOMETHING in the store for the fellow who comes in desperate.

[dverna]

LGS may be buying online at scalpers' prices just to have SOMETHING in the store for the fellow who comes in desperate.

That was the case in my post #110. And the shop wound up selling them.

[5Shot]

When one of the local shops closed down last year I bought 2000 Federal Match LPP for $20. Should have bought the other 3K, but I thought someone else might need some. Now I think it was dumb move. Could have at least used them as trade material for powder or rifle primers.

Also, if you shoot any magazine fed semi autos, you should buy the occasional magazine. When the next mag ban gets brought up those will be unobtainium too. I had a friend who bought one AR mag every time they went to the LGS or ordered online. $15 bucks at a pop and then when the ban was floated she sold a pile of them to buy guns and ammo. I try to pick them up any time I see a good deal. At least my kids will have mags for their ARs.

[Burnt Fingers]

So 25% up from what? The price is still unclear. Theoretically Wooserco has the answer.

Factory retail...which has nothing to do with selling price.

[imashooter2]

Factory retail...which has nothing to do with selling price.

Now all that’s needed is a number.

[littlejack]

I went to the gun club Tuesday, and they had quite a few bricks of Federal 150's and 155's. Price was 97.50 per K. It was good to see that things are beginning to trickle in, but I couldn't bring myself to spring for that amount. But, I guess that it is a lot better than the CCI #41 SR they had a couple months ago for 149.99 per K. Hopefully things are starting to go down, and make it to the west side of the lower 48.

[littlejack]

I dropped by Sportsmans Warehouse today, early afternoon. They had delivered in this morning, their weekly supplies. Low and behold, there was one (1) brick of CCI 300 LP primers. Yes, I grabbed it. No price tag. I sondered up to the counter expecting some outrageous price. I ask for a price check. The clerk scanned the box, and looked in my face. 41.99 for the brick. I hope my face didn't express my giddiness deep inside. You bet, I'll pay that price all day long. I just have to make sure I'm back there next week when the truck rolls in. I hope all y'all are as fortunate as I was today.

[rototerrier]

I’ve been sitting on an absurd amount of lpp that I’ve been unable to trade for any other primers. They seem to be the black sheep of primers.

[imashooter2]

I’ve been sitting on an absurd amount of lpp that I’ve been unable to trade for any other primers. They seem to be the black sheep of primers.

I bought another 5 years worth of LPP just before USPSA changed the rules to allow 8 shot .38s in Revolver division. POOF! My 5 year supply turned into a 50 year supply. And you are right… no one wants to trade.

[uscra112]

I use LPP for Schuetzen loads in .32-40. Not being a competitor, I use maybe 100 a year.

[cwtebay]

I bought another 5 years worth of LPP just before USPSA changed the rules to allow 8 shot .38s in Revolver division. POOF! My 5 year supply turned into a 50 year supply. And you are right… no one wants to trade.This is definitely off topic (and please excuse my ignorance) - how did the switch to allow 8 shot 38's change your primer needs?

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[imashooter2]

Before the rule change, THE choice for Revolver division was the S&W 625 in .45 ACP. The rule change allowed shooters to choose between Major scoring with 6 shot revolvers or Minor scoring with 8 shot revolvers. I did the “standing reloads per match” math and chose the 8 shot.

.45 ACP in my 625 used LPP. Hot rod .38 Colt loads in my 627 use SPP.
Thousands less .45s shot in the year equals thousands less LPP consumed.

[cwtebay]

Before the rule change, THE choice for Revolver division was the S&W 625 in .45 ACP. The rule change allowed shooters to choose between Major scoring with 6 shot revolvers or Minor scoring with 8 shot revolvers. I did the “standing reloads per match” math and chose the 8 shot.

.45 ACP in my 625 used LPP. Hot rod .38 Colt loads in my 627 use SPP.
Thousands less .45s shot in the year equals thousands less LPP consumed.Ahhh, thank you for the explanation.

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[Liberty1776]

Last time I saw primers in a LGS, I bought 1000 Winchester SPP for $80. That was months ago.

I used to figure a primer was about 3 cents or a bit more -- $30/1000.

I'm really glad I put in that order for 10,000 Federal SPP at Midway a couple of years ago....

[LeonardC]

I was in SWH, Wasilla, AK, yesterday and saw some CCI 41. I grabbed all 4 that they had as these are the first primers I've seen for some time. Checked out at $5.39 each. The check out Lady put them in a small bag for me and said she didn't want me to lose any of them on the way home!

[Jtarm]

At $40 a thousand I personally buy enough to outlast me.

That’s exactly why prices won’t go down anytime soon.

After production gets back to pre-Covid levels (it may be already), it’s going to take years for supply to catch up to pent-up demand, because everyone is prepping for the next shortage. Not pointing fingers because I’ll probably be one of them (though I’m well-stocked for now.)

Assuming no new spikes in demand, AND the supply-chain is back to normal soon, AND the current money-printing fest doesn’t result in a bout of hyper-inflation, my prediction is we’re looking at 2023 before the channel is full again and primer prices settle down to a new normal (which will NOT be $40 per thousand.)

[Jtarm]

I think $40/1000 will be the new normal...if things go back to normal in the next year. The announced price increase put primers at that $40/1000 mark. I buy as many as SWMBO will let me buy. I have the go-ahead to spend $1k as soon as I find a good price. I will then try and buy at least a case a month after that. I'm already planning for the 2024 election.

$40 per K WAS normal LGS retail price for one brick of a major brand (not S&B or Ninex) before the pandemic.

Increases in consumer prices alone mean the “new normal” will be higher.

I also don’t think that will be next year because everyone’s going loading up ahead of the next shortage.

[uscra112]

Economists have used the phrase "up like a rocket, down like a feather" for longer than I've been alive, (and Moses was a close personal friend of mine).

[Burnt Fingers]

$40 per K WAS normal LGS retail price for one brick of a major brand (not S&B or Ninex) before the pandemic.

Increases in consumer prices alone mean the “new normal” will be higher.

I also don’t think that will be next year because everyone’s going loading up ahead of the next shortage.

The month before the China Flu hit I bought 10K of Winchester SPP at a local shop for $30/1000.

This shop consistently had prices that were as low as or lower than most of the major supply houses. Graf's at the same time was selling them for $33.99/1000 plus shipping and hazmat.

Right after the China Flu hit the new Scheel's opened up here in DFW. I picked up 10K of Winchester SPP there for $30/1000.

Both prices hurt as my last major primer purchases had been S&B primers in the $15-$20/1000 range.

[Jtarm]

The month before the China Flu hit I bought 10K of Winchester SPP at a local shop for $30/1000.

This shop consistently had prices that were as low as or lower than most of the major supply houses. Graf's at the same time was selling them for $33.99/1000 plus shipping and hazmat.

Right after the China Flu hit the new Scheel's opened up here in DFW. I picked up 10K of Winchester SPP there for $30/1000.

Both prices hurt as my last major primer purchases had been S&B primers in the $15-$20/1000 range.

Hmm, maybe I’m just going to the wrong places.


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[sixshot]

When I shot USPSA I used a S&W 610 in 40 caliber which used small pistol primers & had no problem making major power factor with it.

Dick

[imashooter2]

When I shot USPSA I used a S&W 610 in 40 caliber which used small pistol primers & had no problem making major power factor with it.

Dick

The 610 can certainly work, but I don’t see a competitive advantage. The 625 offers both larger charge holes and bullet diameter.

[roverboy]

I've been finding some lately but, not at pre China Flu prices. I found Lg rifle and Lg pistol at 7 bucks a hundred. I know not at all cheap but, better than scalper prices.

[rototerrier]

$0.07 primers to produce ammo that costs over $1.00 / round is a bargain for LRP. It’s all in how you look at it.

Maybe primers were too cheap to begin with ;)

[Markopolo]

i found some in Juneau, AK Sportsman warehouse for 53.90 a k.... way too much, but I arranged for purchase.

[Wooserco]

My LGS just got a shipment of primers in. All priced at their cost. $16.99 / 100 or 169.99 / thousand. Two weeks in, he's sold 300 (3 sleeves of 100).

[robertbank]

My LGS just got a shipment of primers in. All priced at their cost. $16.99 / 100 or 169.99 / thousand. Two weeks in, he's sold 300 (3 sleeves of 100).

If your LGS iis claiming paying $16.99US/100 then I got throw out an orange flag. He may be claiming it but I would be asking to see his invoices before I believed it. Our retailers are selling US imported primers at $7.99 Cdn/100 which is almost double what they were 18 months ago. That is about $6.40US. If they can sell them for that after paying import and shipping fees I gotta believe the wholesale price is at least 20% less. Give the store some free advertising and post the name of your LGS.

I believe what you are saying; just not buying what he is saying.

Take Care

Bob

[2A-Jay]

No Primers, Components or Ammo of any kind here Within 100 miles of Long Beach WA. My stash is running low. Powder I Have Primed cases in 30-06, 45acp Also have Projectiles for both.

[littlejack]

I stopped in Sportsmans Warehouse this afternoon. They had CCI No. 41 primers for 53.90 per 1 K. They had a few K available, so I will probably pick up another K tomorrow. Mid 2019, they were selling for 32.49 per 1 K, but to me, the 53.90 price is acceptable.

[Southernspeed]

I stopped in Sportsmans Warehouse this afternoon. They had CCI No. 41 primers for 53.90 per 1 K. They had a few K available, so I will probably pick up another K tomorrow. Mid 2019, they were selling for 32.49 per 1 K, but to me, the 53.90 price is acceptable.

That's a good price. I bought some locally (mid VA) a month ago for $90 a box. Last week I got SPP for $60 a box. Expensive but had no choice.

[littlejack]

Availability seems to be getting better. I do not believe prices will ever get back to what they were a year and a half ago. I did expect inflation was going to be a definite, seeing as how it has affected every other camodity we need and use. Powder is trickling in, at SWH, and my local gun club. Prices at the club are running around 28.00 to 32.00 per pound. That's not that bad, unless I reminiss about getting surplus powder in the late 60,s @ .79 per pound in a brown paper bag. Oh yeah, primers were less than 4.00 per K.

[Gray Fox]

My brother told me yesterday he'd called the big Wolf Creek Trap and Skeet Club on Atlanta's west side and said the only components they had were once fired hulls. That place used to get components by the semi truck load. GF

[Idaho45guy]

I stop by my LGS every week and still no primers. Over a year now.

Online search for primers shows about $150 per 1k for CCI SPP.

Not a buyer at that price. Not even a buyer at half that.

[imashooter2]

October 15th a user on the PA Firearms Owners board posted that Cabela’s in Delaware had SPP and SRP at $65 a thousand “as of 1:00.”

I saw it at 4:30, grabbed the wife and we high tailed it on down to find 4K SRP and 8k SPP still available. Only 1k per allowed, but I was happy to put 2k SRP on my shelf. Friends told me that by 7:00 they were all gone.

Those were the first small primers I’ve seen in a year and a half. I have plenty of small pistol, but small rifle remain short stock even with the addition.

[9.3X62AL]

The only thing that will cause exorbitant pricing of reloading components to dial back is for people to stop paying the ridiculous prices being asked for same.

[snowwolfe]

The only thing that will cause exorbitant pricing of reloading components to dial back is for people to stop paying the ridiculous prices being asked for same.

The same thing could be said for every product sold in the USA.

[Dale53]

The big problem is we only have a limited number of companies making components, particularly primers and powder. That really limits competition. So, if a person is out of components, what is one to do?

Food for thought!

FWIW
Dale53

[robertbank]

The big problem is we only have a limited number of companies making components, particularly primers and powder. That really limits competition. So, if a person is out of components, what is one to do?

Food for thought!

FWIW
Dale53

Dale that is true to a point. We do get S&B out of France, brand name out of Bosnia and Tula out of Russia/Ukranie and I believe some come out of China. I have no experience with the latter. None of these offshore producers have product in large amounts in Canada. Talking to importers they claim it is just the supply chain. Primers are shipped by Seacan containers and there might lie the problem with the imported primers. Of the ones quoted they all work. Now given a chance to buy Tula SPP at $4.00 per 100 or CCI/Win at $9.00 for example which do you buy?

I don't know what the floor price is going to be if and when supply chains get back to normal but in my example I would be buying the offshore primers. I guess I have no personal nationalistic drivers that might have me buy a local made brand over the offshore. I suspect, though that most given a wide difference in valuations would go for the less expensive IF they met our needs.

The less expensive offshore pricing might be enough to curtail manufactures from taking advantage of the consumer due to limited competition.

Take Care

Bob

[Electrod47]

With all this going on I just don't shoot like I used to. And I'm sure I'm not alone. After the last "famine" especially of .22 LR I said never again.
So today I set with over 15k .22lr rounds, more than I have ever had in my life and its lucky if I shoot 50 rds a month. Why? I wonder if there will ever be another day when I can stroll into my LGS and buy a few bricks without causing everybody in the place to stare at me. During the "lock-down" I thought I'd catch up on my reloading since empty brass was piled up for years. Had to buy up a bunch of plastic ammo boxes cause I wound up with 3,500 rds of .38's 500 rds of .357 2,500 rds of 9MM 2,550 rds .45LC same with .45ACP not to mention hundreds of rounds for my rifles. USUALLY I kept only a couple hundred of anything made up at one time and shot them off fairly promptly.
NOW I have an inventory sheet on everything Primers, Powder, Boolits, something I had never in 50 years done.
I'm afraid the word is out on us firearm hobbyist's, everybody wants in the act. Some say Oh, this is great. The more the merrier! 2nd Amen is really going to be protected!! Yeah right. There is a perfect storm going on that's not good for our cause. Consolidation in the production of components has led to much of the upheaval and its going to get way worse and probably no better. Why? Vista and their ilk will look to maximize profit at every turn. Yeah, everybody says they are running full out but its at today's profit margin they are full out. Wait til there is a little dip in demand and they will hit the brakes like a brick wall. Remington and Winchester kept making ammo during slow periods cause they had rifles and shooting matches to sponsor. Whats Vista and others sponsoring except the bottom line. I'm an old Steel Mill worker I have seen consolidation in that industry. I have seen Mills retooled and laid off workers brought back and retrained on newer high tech operations, not to mention a few hundred MILLION dollars invested. Then, the minute the market conditions slow a bit. Raw materials, inputs go up. BOOM they are out of there. Mill sold to the next investment group. Things are just never going back. This is our new reality.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I gotta wonder what the heck Alliant is up to? Would not like to have to do without Unique for too much longer.

[BigboreShooter]

Cosmic Charlie,
Watch Powder Valley daily, they get powder in all the time.I’ve picked up some Alliant products in the last few months!

BigBoreShooter

[Shawlerbrook]

If you are not willing to pay at least $65-75/1000 you probably will never buy primers again.

[Baltimoreed]

Things will return, there’s too much money at stake for companies that are making products that Americans are willing to buy at even at 3x what they were at pre pandemic prices to go belly up. Just a matter of when and at what price point they’ll settle out to. Patience grasshopper.

[uscra112]

If you are not willing to pay at least $65-75/1000 you probably will never buy primers again.

The more I read, the more I think this is likely to be true.

[curiousgeorge]

Bought 1k small pistol magnum primers for $80.00 (no tax). Not what I would like to pay, but beginning to think this is the new reality.

[uscra112]

I'm sure glad I'm a single-shot restorer and not a combat pistol competitor or an AR-15 blaster. :popcorn:

[littlejack]

The local Sportsmans Warehouse just received another lot of CCI #41 primers. I picked up another thousand today. They're holding @ 53.90 per K. 223 ammo is 14.99 per box of 20.
The local department store has Tula 223 "on sale" for 8.99 per box. American Eagle 223 for 11.99 a box. Blazer 9mm, 115 or 124 fmj for 16.97. Things are looking up.

[TNsailorman]

Just got back from their site, all primers show "out of stock".

[littlejack]

Off and on, over the last few months, they will get ammunition and reloading componants in. They do not, (for some reason) list them as in stock. My guess would be, that there stock gets bought out so fast that they don't bother listing it as "in stock".
As I stated, I bought a thousand CCI #41 primers earlier today. There was about (guessing here) 20,000 primers available. I will be going back again tomorrow, and getting another thousand.

[littlejack]

Now they're sold out!

[johnnybar]

And she called me crazy when I stocked up on 30,000 various milsurp rounds for pennies per round along with primers, powder and brass for my other chamberings.

[littlejack]

Good insight.

[Edward]

The only thing that will cause exorbitant pricing of reloading components to dial back is for people to stop paying the ridiculous prices being asked for same.

If that works for you fine ,but I own guns cause I like to shoot . Something else gives me great pleasure , is buying little used safe queens from guys who won't buy the components (what ever it takes) to keep the barrel warm / Ed

[littlejack]

Prices ARE dropping fellas. Hold fast!

[MUSTANG]

Not quite sure I agree. 1st Primers I have seen at Murdochs (Actually on their web site as 200 + boxes of 100 at almost all of their stores) in over a year are listed as CCI-Br4 Small Bench Rest Rifle Primers - Cost is $9.99 per thousand. That is almost three times the cost previously (when they had primers in stock).

Soooooo; I am not seeing that falling price you mention.

[littlejack]

Seeing as how most folks (reloaders) haven't even seen primers in the last 15 months, I consider even getting them on the shelf is a big plus. Then, considering the fact that the prices are falling here locally where I am, just enforces the fact that the prices are coming down. I realize that the prices are still outrageous in some areas and states. But, I'm not going to start hollering "The sky is falling The sky is falling" just because your area and others are still selling the primers at a premium price.
Prices ARE coming down. I'm sorry for letting others know this fact, that would rather run with the "gloom and doom" crowd.

[snowwolfe]

People with a little extra cash are not going to forget this shortage. If their wallet permits they will sock away 50-100k of primers which will keep the shelves mostly bare for years to come.
Don’t be stubborn, if you can find a brick of what you need locally for $50 buy it.

[littlejack]

Well said.

[Backcut]

Learned recently that "Ammo Inc" is building a $12 million 160,000 sqft plant to produce loaded ammunition in Wisconsin and planning to complete construction by mid-2022. They make their own brass and I believe projectiles but that's it. Will be more competition for primers and powder just when things might have been starting to improve

[justindad]

Given inflation and the fact that companies aren’t going to lower prices until they both get high on inventory & the competition has lower prices… I don’t ever expect to see primers under $70/1k.

Add the cost of overtime pay that is likely being paid to make primers, and $100/1k doesn’t seem out of line when buying new primers manufactured in 2021.

People in society are generally becoming more fearful, which drives up ammo consumption… and I don’t see an end to that downward spiral either.

[dverna]

Given inflation and the fact that companies aren’t going to lower prices until they both get high on inventory & the competition has lower prices… I don’t ever expect to see primers under $70/1k.

Add the cost of overtime pay that is likely being paid to make primers, and $100/1k doesn’t seem out of line when buying new primers manufactured in 2021.

People in society are generally becoming more fearful, which drives up ammo consumption… and I don’t see an end to that downward spiral either.

I am a tad more optimistic. There has been an increase in supply and reduction in price on both ammunition and primers in the last 9 months. Inflation is unlikely to hit 30%, so that would put primers at about $45/k. The cost of overtime is not significant. I expect labor cost to be about 15% of the total cost of the product.

Figure when primers were retailing $30/k, the manufacturers were selling to distributors at $20/k. Assuming a 50% profit, their cost would be $10/k....so labor at $1.5/k. With a 30% increase in material prices, that $8.50 goes to $11.05. If workers are getting 16 hrs of OT (@1.5) a week, the hourly wage increase is (40 + 16x1.5)/(40+16) which comes to a labor cost increase of just under 30%...$2/k. So total manufacturing costs go from $10/k to $13/k.

For manufacturers to maintain their 50% margin, the need to sell at $26/k. For the distributors to keep their margins of 33%($10/30 = 33%), they will need to sell primers they buy at $26/k for $42/K ($42-26)/42=33%

At anything above about $50/k, someone is making a lot more money than two years ago.

I went through this exercise to determine when I will buy back to replenish stocks. Those who are desperate will be forced to buy at prices over $45. Getting a couple of thousand at a time at $60-70 will be necessary for people caught short but those people will not be buying 50-100k at a time.... either they are too smart, or cannot afford to do so.

I am hoping the new normal will be in the $42-50/k area. If there is a change in DC, and primers from Russia are allowed back into our market, prices will be driven down. I bought 10's of thousands of Wolf and Tula primers at $18/k during the good times. They would be at about $25-30/k now.

[Tonto]

Stopped in Cabelas today in NW Indiana. They had four boxes of large pistol and small rifle CCI primers on the shelf for $79.99/1000. I looped the store, was stunned by the prices on everything and left discouraged. The acquisition by Bass Pro has killed what was a great outdoor retailer. RIP Cabelas.

[Markwell]

Tonto

Agree whole heartedly that BP is killing Cabelas. Can't even park over night in their lots any more; at least not in Mitchell. Got run out of the Springfield BP lot in the middle of the night a couple of years ago while travelling. And you are correct, the prices are up and the general quality of the goods is down. We were in the sporting goods business for 30+ years and have a pretty good idea about such things.

[robertbank]

Up here Cabellas and BP run the same ads for the same merchandise at the same price. I have no issues with their merchandise, pricing or service, all of which I have found to be excellent.

Primers up here are more available than in the recent past but costi $7.99 - $8.99Cdn (8.99CDN would be $7.20US). It will be later next spring before we see offshore primers in with likely new pricing as well. I'll buy Russian, Bosnia, or Ukranian primers at $4.99Cdn before any primers US primers at $7.99 Cdn. Unfortunately none of the offshore importers bring in magnum primers either large or small. Over the chrony the offshore primers work just as well as the domestic variety for most applications I encounter.

Take Care

Bob

[Walks]

Talked to BIL in San Diego last night, he was in a small local shop yesterday. SPP were going for $170 before the 7.75% San Diego County sales tax.

[rintinglen]

I'm going to have to empty a shelf in my gun safe to lock up my valuables--my primers.

[la5676]

Not quite sure I agree. 1st Primers I have seen at Murdochs (Actually on their web site as 200 + boxes of 100 at almost all of their stores) in over a year are listed as CCI-Br4 Small Bench Rest Rifle Primers - Cost is $9.99 per thousand. That is almost three times the cost previously (when they had primers in stock).

Soooooo; I am not seeing that falling price you mention.

If I found them at that price, I’d buy everything they had and tell no one.

[Bmi48219]

No primers of any type, at any price, in this neck of the woods.

[uscra112]

I'm going to have to empty a shelf in my gun safe to lock up my valuables--my primers.

About six weeks ago I had to let a HughesNet tech into my gun room to upgrade the satellite modem.

Yup - I hid all my primers.

[uscra112]

After seeing another user here recommend addictedtoblackpowder.com, i placed an order with them today. 4lbs Scheutzen 3F and 2000 RWS 1075 primer caps. The caps are $95/thousand (spendy). The Scheutzen is $15/lb.


During WW2 there were no primers, no powder, no loaded ammo, nothing available to the civilian market from 1942 until 1946. The American Rifleman published articles on how to refurbish grandpa's old flintlock. For whatever reason, black powder was still readily available.

[cwtebay]

During WW2 there were no primers, no powder, no loaded ammo, nothing available to the civilian market from 1942 until 1946. The American Rifleman published articles on how to refurbish grandpa's old flintlock. For whatever reason, black powder was still readily available.I would love to see those articles. My grandmother talked about using her Stevens 32 to kill everything from hogs to deer to grouse during WW2. It was the only thing she had ammunition for.

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[uscra112]

My almost-complete collection of the Rifleman is in storage, or I'd offer to try finding one for you.

Probably a .32 Long rimfire at that - maybe even a Favorite or Crackshot boys' rifle.

[LeonardC]

The Wife sent me in to Three Bears, Alaska, to pick up some food items. As I passed the gun department I asked if they had any primers in stock (it's an ongoing joke there). The clerk asks me what kind I'm looking for and I ask him what he's got. CCI SR and SRM. I tell him I'll take the SR and he tapes up the last 4 boxes. He says they got in a huge shipment and I got the last 4 packs. $5.99 ea.

[Sig]

Target sports had some Federal match SPP yesterday. They wanted $549.00/5000. I have no interest at that price, sadly they sold out quickly.

[cwtebay]

Not primers.... but I did get some powder yesterday!! Limit of 2 of each per customer.
(Apologies for the sharpied out price - giving that one as a gift - $28.99/# is the price)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211224/e5d97ca99fe0a7bf2d889e6c23a201db.jpg

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[MUSTANG]

Went to Murdochs in Columbia Falls yesterday (27 Dec 2021) to buy grain for the horses. Stopped by the Gun counter and as Gomer Pyle would say: SURPRISE-SURPRISE-SURPRISE; they had a few boxes of Federal Gold Medal Small Pistol Primers on the shelf - limit of 2 per customer (200 Primers). I purchased two boxes of 100 for $4.29 per box. So; I am able to load up 4 boxes of 50 rounds .38 special/.357 for my wife to shoot now.

[dverna]

Those prices are not bad!!!

[rototerrier]

Powder prices, to me, have remained reasonable. Thinking the primers crunch is keeping powder at bay.

[toallmy]

I have been watching a few small rifle primers at 100. A thousand stay available for a week without selling out . They are limited to a thousand , but they were available .
I still see over 400 pages of primers for sale on gunbroker at scalped prices.

[charlie b]

Our Sportsman's had some powder in the shipment today that they haven't had for a while. Acc #9, 5744, 2230, imr4227, 4198, wsf, autocomp. Limit was one per customer. Will go back tomorrow and see if any is left. Lots of TripleSeven :)

No primers.

FWIW, the 4198 was $45/lb. The stuff I bought 2 yrs ago was $35/lb. Not bad.

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[Wooserco]

rpbertbank:


Rustic Sport Shop, Howard City, Michigan. I've known the owner all my life. His mother was my Cub Scout den mother.

Invoices showed $169.99/1,000.

I'm picking up 1K from a co worker next weekend to be replaced when the become available.

[Old Caster]

Two local stores today around St. Louis had 1000 spp winchester for $79 and another store srp for $69 so I think things are turning just a bit but we still have 3 more years of what started the shortage so I don't know what to think. Each place still had a one brick limit. Since I paid around $ 120 a case some years ago this is astonishing and everyone here said it was a good deal.

[Forrest r]

Fin Feather Fur in Youngstown (Boardman store) has had primers for $7.99/100 for over a year now. Don't need any nor will I need any at that price.

They do have a lot of powder, this picture was taken 12/23/2021.
https://i.imgur.com/Tx7Bdv4.jpg

1 container of powder per person, per day. A lot of people were walking around with containers of powder. I didn't need it but I wanted to do some test loads using AA#7 in several different calibers so I bought 1#.

Far cry from what they used to carry/stock but at least there's a bunch of different 4#/5#/8# kegs of powder there (rifle and pistol). The reddot, prome & unique was about gone but they did have a lot of titegroup with the 8# kegs of titegroup costing $183.99 + tax.

[Old Caster]

Now I found Winchester small pistol primers for $60 a thousand close to St. Louis and they had a lot with no limit. Hopefully it is starting to come around.

[LAH]

Now I found Winchester small pistol primers for $60 a thousand close to St. Louis and they had a lot with no limit. Hopefully it is starting to come around.

Hope I'm not wrong but if history has taught us anything, these DEMAND/supply cycles will continue as they have & what is now expensive to the buyer will become sales to move product as the SUPPLY/demand cycle comes full circle.

[Outer Rondacker]

local gun shop has primers for 119.00 per 1k. I feel that is just to much and have been holding off. He will only sell full 1k at a rip.

[BigAlofPa.]

I stopped in where i get most of my reloading supplies. Primers are now 60.00 per 1000 and powder is now avg of 40.00 a lb. I didn't buy any. Im stocked good yet. I did get some 17hmr ammo for 15.00 per 50.

[fastdadio]

I got an e-mail notification from Sportsmans Whrhouse. Spp in stock, $130.00/brick, not including hazmat-shipping. I deleted the e-mail.

[robertbank]

Well things are losoning up here. Primers are becomig available. But the pricing! $10.99 - $11.99 per hundred Now that is Canadian dollars. Multiply by .7847 to get US dollars. That is before taxes (12%) and hazmet fee $15 and shipping ??? Those prices are for Federal and Win.

Personally I have enough for this years shooting. If I see some offshore "Tula" primers show up via the Ukraine or Bosnia at $4.75 per hundred I'll go all in. I think paying $12. for one hundred primers is just one step beyond reason.

Take Care

Bob

[dverna]

It may not look like it to everyone, but things are improving.

It has been slower than I had predicted but the trend is encouraging. I had hoped to buy back in this winter, but I can hold off for years if necessary. With the GOP likely to win the mid-terms, prices will ease off.

[Old Caster]

Don, as soon as people have enough that they feel good about themselves they will stop buying completely because they won't use them up very fast, and that can make the prices go down rapidly. Most won't buy a case at a time like real shooters do.

[Prodigal Son]

Saw some for $75.00 per thousand today we passed on them! Dealer cost as we are an FFL, still wouldn't buy them though!

[Idaho45guy]

Still none locally for over a year at any cost.

Scored these today from my dad who needed me to watch his dog while he's in the hospital.

I can't imagine what the retail value of them would be.

294131

[Lance Boyle]

I saw two boxes of a 1000 for $100,....each.

Green and Red box Kleenbore label. Must be collectible for that kind of premium.

[TurnipEaterDown]

It's stupid what the Bidet panic has done to primer prices.
I see 1000 auctioning for what I paid for 5000 not just 6 years ago. $150-160.
This panic is worse than the Old Bummer panic, in terms of price and availability.
Auctions where people pay $100-120 per POUND for Retumbo, PLUS shipping?! Out and out foolish.

[pete501]

A friend called me yesterday, he was in Phoenix and visited the Bass Pro Shop. He said there were Federal Pistol Primers for $90. The clerk said they were fresh off the truck. He picked up a brick, didn't say anything about limits.

[uscra112]

Auctions ALWAYS tell you what the REAL price of a commodity is. Love it or hate it, foolishness it is not. Unless you really believe things will ever go back to what they were during the Trump administration. Dream on.

Be thankful you can get any at all. During WW2 there was no ammo, no primers, no powder all for civilians for four whole years. It was 1947 before the markets got back to "normal". (OK, you could get .22 ammo if you were a farmer or an authorized training program.)

[toallmy]

This will pass just like the tp shortage

[Outer Rondacker]

This will pass just like the tp shortage

Just hope it passes before I run out. I could aways take up a new hobby like drinking. That would save me on primers. No wait that is a lie it would just cost me more as I would have to line the cans up to shoot afterwards. oh well

[TurnipEaterDown]

Yes, it is true that an auction will tell you about market price.
It does however tell you Nothing about thinking choices of bidders at the auction.

I am firmly convinced that much of this is panic buying, and nothing more. But that is not the simple answer it sounds like.

You can find more powder on auction from private sellers on GB now than ever before. Why? It is price point elevation due to emotion, and savy folks taking advantage of this to make money. Notice that I did not say price gouging. They are getting what someone is willing to pay.
But Why are they willing to pay? The shelves are empty because of people buying to auction. They buyers are feeding the unruly machine.

There is No Way that people are utilizing the increased purchased quantities. Look at the responses to relevant questions posted here on this site. Many folks saying they have curtailed, or shoot 22 more often now. Reloaders shoot the most, and yet say they have curtailed or remain stable in what they shoot. Hmmmmm...

There will be a glut held in personal storage after this, and funny thing will be that much of the production bought with the sole purpose to auction will cost the seller nothing: they will have sold enough at 3-4x retail to have their hoard for free. They are smart, sure.

It's being driven by a willingness to pay higher than we should, by a great deal. The shortage wouldn't be this bad if people were "only" willing to pay 1.5-2x prices. More profit margin for speculators, more likely that when they are left holding stuff they can't use, it cost them nothing. Upside for the speculator, downside for the user.


Here's a question:
Does the rational person fill their gas tank of their vehicle every day when the price per gallon is on a slow constant upward trajectory, or wait until nearly empty?

9 of 10 people I have asked this before get this wrong.

We have been taught to listen to emotion and not think. That is what Bernays taught marketers in the 1930s.

[toallmy]

There seems to be plenty for sale on gunbroker , over 400 pages of listings of primers for sale - if you really need them at their price .

[dverna]

Yes, it is true that an auction will tell you about market price.
It does however tell you Nothing about thinking choices of bidders at the auction.

I am firmly convinced that much of this is panic buying, and nothing more. But that is not the simple answer it sounds like.

You can find more powder on auction from private sellers on GB now than ever before. Why? It is price point elevation due to emotion, and savy folks taking advantage of this to make money. Notice that I did not say price gouging. They are getting what someone is willing to pay.
But Why are they willing to pay? The shelves are empty because of people buying to auction. They buyers are feeding the unruly machine.

There is No Way that people are utilizing the increased purchased quantities. Look at the responses to relevant questions posted here on this site. Many folks saying they have curtailed, or shoot 22 more often now. Reloaders shoot the most, and yet say they have curtailed or remain stable in what they shoot. Hmmmmm...

There will be a glut held in personal storage after this, and funny thing will be that much of the production bought with the sole purpose to auction will cost the seller nothing: they will have sold enough at 3-4x retail to have their hoard for free. They are smart, sure.

It's being driven by a willingness to pay higher than we should, by a great deal. The shortage wouldn't be this bad if people were "only" willing to pay 1.5-2x prices. More profit margin for speculators, more likely that when they are left holding stuff they can't use, it cost them nothing. Upside for the speculator, downside for the user.


Here's a question:
Does the rational person fill their gas tank of their vehicle every day when the price per gallon is on a slow constant upward trajectory, or wait until nearly empty?

9 of 10 people I have asked this before get this wrong.

We have been taught to listen to emotion and not think. That is what Bernays taught marketers in the 1930s.

My inventory of powder and primers is at "zero cost". Last year I sold most of it but not to guys "flipping" it.

One buyer was a competitive shooter in the state
One was a competitive shooter from Texas who was here visiting family
One was a commercial reloader in the state
One was a guy who put together a group buy for his club members.

I decided to cut down shooting CF when prices went nuts. I also cut down on consumption of .22 LR. By investing in PCP guns I can shoot inexpensively for the bulk of my fun shooting. It is not for everyone, but it works for me. I get just as much fun shooting a 1/2" group at 50 yards with pellets as shooting 1/2" groups at 100 yards with the CF bolt guns...and a lot more fun than shooting cast bullets.

I doubt there are many items listed on Gunbroker by normal Joe's "flipping" stuff. Most are not able to ship HazMat so that limits their market. I wanted to sell on Gunbroker, and was ready to take the training when I sold all I wanted to sell in about a month using an ad in the state gun forum. I would have been able to sell for a higher price on Gunbroker but decided not to get greedy.

Frankly, I do not know where the inventory being sold on GB is coming from. But I suspect some "retailers" may be marketing stuff through that site using a third party. It allows them to get a significantly higher return without upsetting their normal customers. My reasoning is thus....

I had a substantial amount of inventory, and it was gone in a month. I doubt very many people would be holding that much. But if they did, it would have run out in a month or two. So where is this stuff coming from? They are not running down to the LGS, buying everything on the shelves and flipping it. First, it is not there...second, when there is inventory nearly every LGS is limiting quantities.

Maybe people are smarter than I think. Maybe a handful of "investors" bought thousands of pounds of powder and tens of millions of primers before the panic and waited for this to happen.

GB sellers either had a huge store or they are getting it from someplace we average Joe's cannot buy from.

[HWooldridge]

After months of diligent searching, I found 4500 LP primers last week at the LGS. First ones I’ve seen and they were $118/1000 - so I bought them. Mix of CCI and Winchester - they are now in the reloading cabinet.

I don’t think we will see cheap components again - it’s just like gasoline, the price doubles then goes down 25% and everybody breathes easier. I’m a shooter and don’t typically sell components unless one of my friends needs something so it won’t bother me in the least if the stores fill up again with primers at $30/1000…but I’m of the opinion they will settle out around $60-70/1000 and that will be the new norm.

[1903.colt]

Im still able to buy primers in very small quantities 1000 prices are $80.00 - 100.00 per thousand- 6.99 per hundred . Venders are holding primers for guys buying lots of bullets & brass I buy neither across the counter . Small shop's are starting to have primers on the counter one shop I deal with have Small rifle every time I stop in for pistol . IMO I don't believe 40.00 per thousand is in the near future why would you take less when you can sell all you can supply at current price . I have enough small rifle being its negative temps I don't shoot any AR -condensation . Pistol I shoot all year round on my range . So I will be making Ingots the next months my summer take of lead was over 1200 pounds no range scrap . Getting primers is problematic & will be for some time IMO Im still able to spend 4 hours a day gun related projects . Stay safe & Shoot well !

[nelsonted1]

Dad was a kid during War 2. People would come around to hunt in the giant swamp behind the buildings. Dad used to say sure if they gave him five 12 gauge shells. They were black powder but that was all anyone could get. He said he had to shoot and run around the smoke to see the pheasant fall. That and a great dog.

[nelsonted1]

This was in Zerohedge of all places.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/what-great-ammunition-shortage-says-about-inflation



hat The Great Ammunition Shortage Says About Inflation
Tyler Durden's Photo
BY TYLER DURDEN
FRIDAY, JAN 07, 2022 - 11:20 PM
Authored by Matt Stoller via BIG Substack,

Concentration is increasing prices and keeping them high. The ammunition duopoly and the "Great Ammunition Shortage" is just one example.




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Covid has done a lot of things to our society. But talk to anyone who enjoys hunting, and they’ll tell you one of result is the ‘Great Ammunition Shortage of 2021.’ "5.56 ammunition for an AR-15 used to be about 33 cents a round," said Mark Oliva, director of public affairs for the National Shooting Sports Foundation. "Now you're looking at closer to almost a dollar a round. So it is much more expensive and it is much more difficult to find ammunition."

One of the more interesting questions in the discussion over inflation is the relationship between concentration and pricing changes. Most economists believe that supply shocks are increasing profits, but that this increase will serve as an inducement to more productive capacity. "Capitalism is on our side,” said economist Alan Blinder in the Wall Street Journal. “Shortages raise prices, but high prices create opportunities for profit, which attract capitalists to alleviate the shortages." If Blinder were correct, then one would expect lots of new productive capacity and new entrants into this market.

Ammunition is a highly concentrated industry. There are many ammo brands, like CCI, Federal, Remington, Winchester, and Speer, but they are all controlled by two firms - Vista Outdoor and the Olin Corporation. As Elle Ekman wrote in the American Prospect, Vista and Olin rolled up the industry through mergers, as well as taking advantage of the privatization of government facilities making ammunition and government contracts.

During the pandemic, a lot of people decided they wanted to buy and use guns, either for hunting or personal protection. The 12 million new gun owners, plus existing activity, meant that the industry experienced the same demand shock that lots of outdoor activity segments saw. The result has been a shortage of ammunition, and higher prices.

Like a lot of industries, there are cost pressures in ammunition; the price of raw materials, like brass, have gone up. Additionally, the State Department has blocked imports from Russia, adding to the pricing pressure. But the cost story is really a sideshow; the pricing increase is going almost entirely to profit. For Vista, margins skyrocketed in 2020, and continued to increase in 2021. As the CFO of Vista, Sudhanshu Shekhar Priyadarshi, told investors in November, margins rose to a record 27% in Q2 of 2021, on top of an already extraordinary 2020.

According to Blinder, and most economists, competitors should enter the market and invest in new factories, or existing firms should expand existing capacity to seize market share, eventually leading to reduced prices. But the industry hasn’t experienced such competitive dynamics. Profits, said Priyadarshi, have gone to share repurchases and paying down debt.

There are several reasons for this, but the main ones are consolidation and high barriers to entry in the industry. Ammunition is difficult to produce, as it requires careful manufacturing processes to safely handle explosive materials. Vista recently bought its competitor Remington out of bankruptcy, lowering the number of firms in the industry that could even build a factory and distribute ammunition effectively. And the limits on capacity were explicit. The head of ammunition for Vista, Jason R. Vanderbrink, explained that the “most important” reason for the Remington acquisition was “added capacity to Vista without increasing the overall market capacity."

This isn’t purely a story of informal cartel engaged in profit-seeking, but also risk-management. Like a lot of commodity businesses, the ammunition industry is cyclical, with shortages and price hikes when demand increases, followed by collapses as capacity increases and demand stays level or declines. Industry executives know this, and are intent on that not happening again. Here’s Christopher T. Metz, the CEO of Vista, talking about their purchase of Remington, a competitor in the industry.

Because of some of the consolidation we've done with Remington, even if you look long term, we don't see the same type of price compression the industry may have experienced in previous times.

Vista has set up two pricing programs to ensure high prices and stability. The first is a subscription service for ammunition, which gives them a steady flow of ammunition demand and lets them plan production more easily. The second is, well, an informal form of price-fixing, or output reduction. They aren’t totally explicit about it, but they use code words to make the point. Here’s Metz explaining that they collude with their competition to keep capacity lower than it should be.

"Now with ammunition being the largest part of our business. I mean, clearly, buying a Remington, we've created what we feel like is an even more disciplined industry now as we go forward. We've got, I think, like competitors in the sense that they watch growth, they watch their margin profiles. And we feel like we've got a disciplined industry."

And I've mentioned previously that we studied, as best we can…industry capacity and making sure that we're not only managing our capacity, but very mindful of what's being brought into the industry, so we don't get over our skis, if you will.

In other words, Vista executives are planning to ensure that prices won’t come down. They have expanded some capacity on the margins, but because there are only two real firms now, they can easily pull that extra production offline if necessary. We’ve seen the management of pricing across economic cycles in other concentrated industries. Chris Leonard wrote about Tyson Food’s control of the poultry business, and how during the financial crisis this meant the entire industry could raise prices by all cutting production at once.

No one in the room was excited about the idea of a production cut. It was Tyson’s nuclear option. It meant the company would intentionally scale back its business, cutting down its sales. It also meant farmers would get fewer deliveries of chickens, reducing their income even as their debt payments stayed the same. But Smith decided that a cutback was inevitable.

Ultimately, Tyson cut its production by 5 percent in December. Around that time, the industry as a whole was estimated to have cut back the placement of new eggs between 6 and 7 percent.

In a matter of weeks, the price of a boneless, skinless chicken breast rose by about 20 cents, according to an industry estimate. Within a short few months, Tyson’s chicken business was profitable again.

What was remarkable about this plan was the fact that Tyson executives could even consider it. Decades of lax antitrust enforcement allowed Tyson Foods to buy most of it competitors, giving executives at company headquarters the ability to control production on thousands of farms and dozens of major poultry plants across the nation. In 2008, Tyson Foods and its competitor Pilgrim’s controlled more than 40 percent of the national market. The third-biggest company controlled just 8 percent. Modern American farming was run out of the central office.

If meat-packers were doing this fourteen years ago, then what is happening in the ammunition industry shouldn’t be a shock. Vista and Olin, in other words, are following the legal framework laid out more than a decade ago. In fact, we can see that within the ammunition industry itself, since Olin is more a chemical conglomerate, and its ammunition division is something of a sideshow. But that firm’s leaders are also excited about margins and price increases across their whole suite of products.



Barriers to Entry
When economists like Alan Blinder, Jason Furman and Larry Summers, discuss inflation and concentration, they are relying on the idea that markets are competitive, and that new entrants will drive down margins of existing players. This is not a crazy theory. Some bottlenecks will go away; Congress is acting to reduce the problem at the ports, otherwise known as the world’s most profitable traffic jam.

But in terms of concentrated industries, is it really true that there will be mass entry with high profit margins? As we see with ammunition, the answer is, probably not.

This relates to an interesting question in antitrust law, which is the idea of barriers to entry. Such barriers can be financial or technical, such as the expertise and expense needed to enter many industries. But as antitrust law has weakened, it’s also made it much harder for new firms to come into concentrated markets. Let’s keep going with Tyson Food. As New York Times reporter Pete Goodman tweeted, independent meat-packers actually can’t enter the market to compete with Tyson, even if they can built out facilities.


That doesn’t mean inflation is going to keep rising, only that concentration means that price signals are less responsive to underlying supply and demand. Tommaso Valletti, formerly top economist at the EU Competition Authority, noted that there are likely impacts on inflation of competition - the more competition the more quickly prices adjust.


This makes sense, and it’s consistent with what is happening in the ammunition market. Vista executives are trying to stop price adjustments downward by controlling output.

Still, the problem of market power hasn’t penetrated the world of macro-economists trying to understand price adjustments. When economists say that inflation is unrelated to market power, what they really mean is that they don’t have models of inflation that incorporate market power. Market power isn’t under the lamp post, so it must not matter.

But of course, that’s ridiculous. It does matter. The only question is, how much?

[uscra112]

Very informative article. Thank you for posting.

[Forrest r]

I always looked at the cost of primers in 2 ways.

Compared it to the cost of 22lr blammo ammo. If I buy 22lr blammo ammo @ $.03 a round my primers shouldn't cost more than $30/1000.

This brings me to the 2nd way I look at the cost of primers or ammo/reloading supplies. When prices get stupid like they are now I refuse to buy anything. Why feed the machine??? When people quit paying/buying things like primers at these inflated prices. The prices will come down.

I'm 1 of those that have stocked up when prices were "normal". Not only on primers & powder, I also bought cases of 22lr ammo (cheap blammo ammo). Couple that with changing my shooting habits like instead of ripping thru +/- 500 pistol/revolver rounds in 1 range session. I burn thru 100 rounds on dumps/rapid fires and incorporate another 100 rounds in slow fire/accuracy drills. The pellet guns get a lot more use during these dry spells also.

If I run out of the different (sp/lp/sm/lr) primers I'll find something else to shoot or do. I just wish more people would quit buying primers at these inflated prices. The mfg's can cut back all they want & shops stores can fill their shelves as full as they want. No $$$ coming in means they'll have to adjust the cost to what the consumer is willing to pay.

[uscra112]

You should read the article posted just above. We are no longer in a pure free-market situation. Only two large suppliers exist, and they won't LET the prices come down, for lack of competitors. Monopoly market. People paying what used to be considered scalpers' prices are not the problem.

[Forrest r]

Actually, I did.

If no one buys their products, they'll have either lower the price or borrow $$$/sell assets to stay in business. I understand it's a huge company with a diverse/wide range of products targeting the shooting/firearms industry. But being this big also gives anyone a lot of different areas to exploit if they chose to do so.

The real issue is the consumer. It would take a banded effort to counter what they're doing. But it also be extremely easy to affect their bottom line thru constant questioning/bad reviews/returns/warrantee issues/etc. Last thing any company wants to do is pay 3x for selling/reshipping the same product.

Myself I have no issues buying megtech (cbc), fiocchi or s&b primers when the $$$ is right.

[uscra112]

What effect does it have on Walmart or Amazon if we as individuals boycott them? Several zeros to the right of the decimal point.

[dverna]

Fiocchi already has manufacturing in the US. They likely do not produce primers here, but they have the technology and experience. Not too difficult to set up a production line for them. They could approach a few of the larger distributors to "jump start" a primer division by supplying primers from offshore while a production line was being installed. This gives them a low-risk opportunity and instant distribution.

If I was the owner of Powder Valley, I would be approaching them with a proposal. KS is not a long drive from MS or AR. Face to face meetings are interesting.

[Forrest r]

What effect does it have on Walmart or Amazon if we as individuals boycott them? Several zeros to the right of the decimal point.

Think small be small

Myself I had a little over $400 worth of scopes & reloading equipment laying around that were under warrantee that needed fixed. Most of it I bought used that way cheap. Doesn't matter they fixed it on their dime which allowed me to resell everything. It cost them the warrantee work along with the loss of sales of people buying their items at inflated prices compared to my low pricing/saving the people that bought these items from me.

What's +/- $400 1 person costing such a large corporation as vista's bottom line??? Not much. Take 100,000 people from 1 website that supports shooting sports doing the same thing and it starts to add up. Take 10 sites doing the same thing and well I'm not sure what will change 1st. Their policies or the under garments.

Hence my statement "banded effort"

anyway no big deal. People should simply realize they're not going to change until they are forced to.

[Baltimoreed]

Not planning on buying primers until they hit 50.00 or less or I break into my last brick. At my rate of consumption —about 4 to 5 years of conservative shooting. Ammo is slowly returning to shelves, there’s no reason to think components won’t either. There’s too much money on the table.

[uscra112]

Fiocchi already has manufacturing in the US. They likely do not produce primers here, but they have the technology and experience. Not too difficult to set up a production line for them. They could approach a few of the larger distributors to "jump start" a primer division by supplying primers from offshore while a production line was being installed. This gives them a low-risk opportunity and instant distribution.

If I was the owner of Powder Valley, I would be approaching them with a proposal. KS is not a long drive from MS or AR. Face to face meetings are interesting.

Speaking from the viewpoint of a superannuated process control engineer, it does seem that setting up a primers-only facility wouldn't break the bank. One Minster Hummingbird to produce anvils, another for cups, and a safe process to mix and handle the compound. We know that actually filling and assembly are still manual operations, so some trained people would need to be acquired.

Independent brass mfgrs like Starline could get into it in a New York Minute, could they not?

[dverna]

Speaking from the viewpoint of a superannuated process control engineer, it does seem that setting up a primers-only facility wouldn't break the bank. One Minster Hummingbird to produce anvils, another for cups, and a safe process to mix and handle the compound. We know that actually filling and assembly are still manual operations, so some trained people would need to be acquired.

Independent brass mfgrs like Starline could get into it in a New York Minute, could they not?

Starline is not a good fit. They can barely keep up with producing brass. But more critical, they have no expertise. Fiocchi, produces primers and all they need to do is send a couple of guys across The Great Pond for a year to supervise construction and provide technical assistance.

I worked for a Finnish firm that did that in another industry and it worked out well. Many business and technical folks in Europe have good English skills and really enjoy an assignment like that.

If prices stay stupid and/or market demand holds up it will happen. BTW, I am a spaghetti bender and know they have some decent engineers there. Fiocchi makes the most sense as they have plants here, infrastructure, sales and marketing etc. They are also big enough that the two gorillas will have trouble beating them up.

BTW, what the gorillas are doing is illegal. If a whistleblower comes forward, they will be heavily fined, which is not too bad...but they could be forced to divest divisions. Just depends who they have bribed. I sound cynical because I have worked in an industry with limited competition.

[uscra112]

Wonder if you could start by paying for dies for the Miinsters, and subcontract the actual stamping until you can afford your own.

Yah, OK, get Fiocchi or another of the Europeans to come over here with expertise. Subcontract the cups and anvils as above. The cost of a facility to mix and measure the compound can't cost all that much. Hiring and training the people might be a problem, since the Amarican workforce has become such a bunch of slackers. Oh, and permits and licensing. One of the worst hurdles of starting any business here now.

Meanwhile we have threads here about making them at home. . . . . .

[racepres]

I always looked at the cost of primers in 2 ways.

Compared it to the cost of 22lr blammo ammo. If I buy 22lr blammo ammo @ $.03 a round my primers shouldn't cost more than $30/1000.

This brings me to the 2nd way I look at the cost of primers or ammo/reloading supplies. When prices get stupid like they are now I refuse to buy anything. Why feed the machine??? When people quit paying/buying things like primers at these inflated prices. The prices will come down.

I'm 1 of those that have stocked up when prices were "normal". Not only on primers & powder, I also bought cases of 22lr ammo (cheap blammo ammo). Couple that with changing my shooting habits like instead of ripping thru +/- 500 pistol/revolver rounds in 1 range session. I burn thru 100 rounds on dumps/rapid fires and incorporate another 100 rounds in slow fire/accuracy drills. The pellet guns get a lot more use during these dry spells also.

If I run out of the different (sp/lp/sm/lr) primers I'll find something else to shoot or do. I just wish more people would quit buying primers at these inflated prices. The mfg's can cut back all they want & shops stores can fill their shelves as full as they want. No $$$ coming in means they'll have to adjust the cost to what the consumer is willing to pay.

Well Said...I can Wait...always have!!! Obviously been married a very Long Time!!!!!!!

[GrizzLeeBear]

CCI small rifle and small rifle magnum primers available at midway right now

CCI 450 $90.00 per 1000 (with a limit of 1). add $30 for hazmat + shipping = $120.00 per 1000. :| No thanks.

[PrestoColumbus]

Question for you all, from an unexperienced novice (this is my first shortage to live thru)

How are you keeping yourselves safe from online scams?

somethings I've been thinking about
- stick with name-brand stores (Midway, Brownells, etc)
- find other lesser known stores thru sites like ammoseek Is this a reliable?
- what red-flags indicate danger?
---- webstores requiring minimum purchase ($200 or more)
---- unbelievable deals ($35/1000 with many different brands in stock... hard to believe)
---- no listing on ammoseek
---- ridiculous shipping cost ($50-$100) (I get hazmat fees but I've seen some crazy shipping costs out there)

anyway, just looking for more advice.

tank smudge

[trails4u]

be patient, and be willing/able to buy what someone might be parting with locally. spend time on auction/estate sale sites and be willing to show up early if one shows promise. most of what i have in inventory has been bought in bulk....some i needed/wanted, some not, but the bulk deal buying made it worth it. what i don't need i sell back at a fair price and still end up ok.

[uscra112]

Hard to lay down hard and fast rules. Going just by "name brand" isn't necessarily safe, even. (e.g. I won't buy from Midway ever again.)

Name brand outfits I DO buy from
Brownells
Mid-South
Natchez
Widener's
Graf's
Huntington's
Duck Creek
Powder Valley

I troll Gunbroker a lot, but I have only bought ammo once from a vendor there. Paid a scalper's price because I had to. Auction sites are rife with fly-by-nighters selling defective stuff, so if there's any chance, don't buy. GB does have a feedback system like evilBay, so you can judge from that.

LOL!!! I hadn't looked a primers on GB for quite some while (years). Over $200 a brick and climbing! Yikes! If I chose to sell out, I could buy that new side-by-side ATV I've been wanting!

[rototerrier]

be patient, and be willing/able to buy what someone might be parting with locally. spend time on auction/estate sale sites and be willing to show up early if one shows promise. most of what i have in inventory has been bought in bulk....some i needed/wanted, some not, but the bulk deal buying made it worth it. what i don't need i sell back at a fair price and still end up ok.

++++1

This is how I’ve always done it. The only way to really build your inventory and save a buck is to buy out others in large lots. You have to be prepared to spend big and even purchase the items you don’t want. Make it easy on them to sell out so that you get the entire lot at a discount. Then you put in the effort to sell off individual items you don’t need and keep the rest.

You may have to spend 3k to get the 2k worth of stuff but then you sell off the extra 1k for 2k and you just got everything at half price or better.

[Bmi48219]

CCI 450 $90.00 per 1000 (with a limit of 1). add $30 for hazmat + shipping = $120.00 per 1000. :| No thanks.

Face the facts, the sale of primers to the reloading community is pretty far down the priority list of ammo manufacturers in general. Nine mm range ammo is going for about $.36 per round including profit. Generally speaking the components used cost $.30 total per round at retail prices. Put simply manufacturers always get a higher return on investment for finished products. Why would they reduce highly profitable ammo production to sell what is probably the most difficult to make and versatile component they need. Primer prices won’t go down until after the demand for ammo goes down.
If ammo manufacturers manipulate the supply of their finished product it will be worse.

[Jaaymar]

294781

First.
Don’t buy loaded ammo where they used spent primers.
Second.
Avoid loaded ammo for a revolver that has no discernible crimp.
Third.
If the loaded ammo is new the cases should shine.

[Outer Rondacker]

Just opened my last box of 1000 CCI small magnum pistol primers. Price on the box is 12.79. Not bad.

[danmat]

Stop by local shop to check up, had sm pistol and rifle 13.95 up from 12.95 last month.
I don't need any thank goodness.

[Loudy13]

starting to see boxes of small rifle primers around here still at 79.99 which is to rich for my blood but it is a good sign that they are on the shelf for more than a few minutes or not at all.

[kayala]

Stopped by at Cabela's last weekend and they've had LPP and LPM on the shelf (2 boxes each). Same price $79 I've left them there - not that desperate yet.

[dverna]

Question for you all, from an unexperienced novice (this is my first shortage to live thru)

How are you keeping yourselves safe from online scams?

somethings I've been thinking about
- stick with name-brand stores (Midway, Brownells, etc)
- find other lesser known stores thru sites like ammoseek Is this a reliable?
- what red-flags indicate danger?
---- webstores requiring minimum purchase ($200 or more)
---- unbelievable deals ($35/1000 with many different brands in stock... hard to believe)
---- no listing on ammoseek
---- ridiculous shipping cost ($50-$100) (I get hazmat fees but I've seen some crazy shipping costs out there)

anyway, just looking for more advice.

tank smudge

Paying with a credit card can provide some safety.

If the deal looks too good to be true it probably is.

Stay up to date on prices. Right now, if I needed primers and found them at a store for $80/k that would be fair, but I would not be stocking up at that price as it is likely to drop. Last year, $100/k was fair. If the "fair" price is $80/k and you find some at $60 buy a six month supply if they will sell you that many.

As to vendors, I buy from established distributors as others have already listed.

Estate auctions have never been too successful for me. By the time you factor in the time/cost to travel there and time waiting for stuff you want to buy it is not much of a saving. But my area may be to blame.

[AndyC]

Ammunition plant to open near Texarkana


The facility will specialize in the production of primers, a key component in ammunition manufacturing, for the small arms industry.

"We have invested $100 million into the site so far," said Richard A. Smissen, owner, Expansion Industries. "This is all about supply and demand. There is serious demand in the industry for this product and right now, for various reasons, the supply chain is falling woefully short. So we are getting ready to do our part to help out with that issue."


https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/2022/jan/19/ammunition-plant-to-open-near-texarkana/

[uscra112]

A hundred million seems like a lot, just to produce primers.

Oh, I see. They bought out a whole ammunition line from the Lone Star Army Ammunition plant.

OK, start the primers line first. Demand is definitely there.

Free markets solve problems!

[Outer Rondacker]

My buddy in another state found that all his gun shops are fully stocked with primers for $60/k cci. I am sending him to the store today with a box to fill.

Yesterday he asked the one shop what the purchase limit was and the owner laughed at him. Said, son if you got cash, you can take it all.

Let's see how this goes. I will have to pay shipping and tax. At the moment I cannot even find a primer for sale rather yet for less then $120/k

[dverna]

My buddy in another state found that all his gun shops are fully stocked with primers for $60/k cci. I am sending him to the store today with a box to fill.

Yesterday he asked the one shop what the purchase limit was and the owner laughed at him. Said, son if you got cash, you can take it all.

Let's see how this goes. I will have to pay shipping and tax. At the moment I cannot even find a primer for sale rather yet for less then $120/k

He cannot legally ship primers unless he is Hazmat certified.

[rototerrier]

He cannot legally ship primers unless he is Hazmat certified.

Or mail him your brass and have him mail the brass back to you primed. It's a lot of work, but since you guys are already considering going around your butts to get to your elbow, it's a legal option.

Or a road trip

[Outer Rondacker]

He cannot legally ship primers unless he is Hazmat certified.

Interesting, UPS store by him told him otherwise. He is coming to visit in February so he can just drop it off then if all else fails.