50/45 brass

[toot]

has any one made them. I have a NAVAL REMINGINTON ROLLING BLOCK WEAPON. and I want to make them to fire it. I have tried making them from 348 WIN, and 8M/M LEBEL. and bullet DIA. and loads. would like to hear from others. thanks. toot.

[elk hunter]

My cases are made from old DGW 50-70 cases. They're loaded with a regular LR primer, 37.8 grs of 3 FG Goex, a 370 grain soft lead bullet, .515 diameter, from a Lee 515-370 mould with SPG lube.

Is your carbine a true US Navy one? Mine has a Navy barrel fitted to an unknown RB carbine. As I understand most of the originals were re-barreled and sold to France in about 1871 for use in the Franco - Prussian war. Dixie Gun Works was reported to have acquired and sold a lot of the original barrels many years ago.

[ndnchf]

We've discussed this before. As stated above, make them from .50-70 brass. Its easy to do and works fine.

[toot]

elk hunter. thank you so much for the reply to my question. yes it is a true navy one. two question's, what length do you cut them back to? or do you use them as 50/70 length? do you thumb press the bullets into the cases? thanking you. toot.

[toot]

ndnchf, thank you. toot.

[elk hunter]

Toot;

My cases are trimmed to 1.350 more or less. They came with the carbine. I use my 56-50 Spencer dies to load them.

[toot]

elk hunter. that is great just what I was looking for. here is the info. that my gun has. rite side of receiver, P, over F.C.W. left side an ANCHOR. tang is marked- PAT MAY 3RD NOV 16TH APR17TH 1866. LEGENTH- 32 I/2 inches.it is a NAVAL CADET RIFLE. only 500 were made under contract to SPRINGFIELD ARMORY. it has the original bayonet also. so it is a keeper. the info. you provided me with is in my reloading personal book, that I keep for all odd ball calibers. it is my go to book. at 77+++, I tend to for get.

[elk hunter]

. it is my go to book. at 77+++, I tend to for get.

Toot, I understand. I'm right behind you. I'll be 26 in a couple of weeks. The 26 isn't the problem, it's the 50 years experience at being 25 that hurts.

I'm officially jealous. A real Navy contract RB, WOW.

[toot]

elk hunter, I can't remember back that far when I was 25, going on 26? LOL!! glad you approve, like my original NAVY CADET, 50/45. RB. it almost broke the bank, but I got it 11 yrs ago. you my friend are a wealth of information on there old odd ball calibers'. glad you chose this course, and that you jumped in to help me, with my question. are they any other odd ball calibers that you fool with, like, 11,m/m WERNDL, 455/500 MH, 577 SNIDER ENFIELD, ETC,? these are some that I play with. just curious? all the best, toot.

[elk hunter]

Toot;

I too tend to focus on the older less common calibers. Muzzle loaders and early breech loaders are what I like. I do occasionally fall for a pre-64 model 70 or a neat, less common caliber lever gun. I just can't get enamored with black plastic or huge scopes, etc.

Do these qualify as odd ball? 41 Swiss, 11MM Mauser, 44 Game Getter, 577-450 MH, 56-50 Spencer, 56 Burnside, 12.7 x 44, 577 Snider, 16 gauge pinfire shotgun, 1860 Dreyse 15.4 MM needle fire.

[toot]

yes, I load & shoot all of then, and many more. except the 15.4 M/M needle fire. we both have the same interest's in odd ball calibers. I have made 9mm, PIN FIRE by taking a modern 9mm case and drilled a hole into the side of the case next to the primer and glued in a percussion cap, then cut a small finish nail and inserted it into the hole, in to the cup of the percussion cap, and it fired just fine. ever hear of such a loading practice? I guess that if you want to shoot a gun bad enough, we odd ball loaders will try and find a way? I hate to have a gun that is just a hanger. I also have a bevy of molds for many caliber's. I have been collecting odd ball guns for over 60, yrs. BTW, I cut down a 50/70 case to try and make a 50/45, and it worked as you stated, again thank you my friend!

[toot]

I too agree with you, I don't enjoy plastic / black guns & 40 power scopes. give the animal a chance. you left out 43 SPANISH & REFORMADO. but I expect you have loaded then also?. I have both rifles & carbine's for both of the calibers'. REMINGTON ROLLERS.

[ndnchf]

I too enjoy the challenge of the odd and unusual. My navy carbine is a put-together, but it shoots well. I'm now playing with its predecessor - a Remington split breech carbine in .56-50 rimfire. I've converted centerfire cases to rimfire, using a .22 blank as the primer. But lately I've been repriming and reloading original copper rimfire cases. Great fun :-)

[elk hunter]

I too agree with you, I don't enjoy plastic / black guns & 40 power scopes. give the animal a chance. you left out 43 SPANISH & REFORMADO. but I expect you have loaded then also?. I have both rifles & carbine's for both of the calibers'. REMINGTON ROLLERS.

I've missed out on the two Spanish rounds, I've just not had either one come my way. The most difficult and most interesting round to load has been the 15.4 Dreyse. The original round used a sabot to hold and guide an undersized bullet. I was never able to come up with a good sabot. I tried paper patching 540 grain .585 diameter bullets for the 577 and they shot OK but when I tried a .642 diameter 16 gauge round ball I found the right projectile. If you do your part it will shoot half dollar sized 5 shot groups at 25 yards. The black rifle guys aren't impressed with what I shoot but, HEY, that just leaves more of the fun ones for me.

[elk hunter]

I too enjoy the challenge of the odd and unusual. My navy carbine is a put-together, but it shoots well. I'm now playing with its predecessor - a Remington split breech carbine in .56-50 rimfire. I've converted centerfire cases to rimfire, using a .22 blank as the primer. But lately I've been repriming and reloading original copper rimfire cases. Great fun :-)

Sounds like fun to me too. Post some pictures of the split-breech.

I have been wanting a model 1865 Trapdoor in 58 rimfire. I saw one years ago in an old store building in Eastern Oregon. The owner wasn't interested in selling as his grandfather had gotten it from a pioneer in that area. I have a friend that collects the sort of stuff I like and has some that I lust for, like his beautiful 1853 Sharps sporter. He keeps sending me information on wonderful items but I just continue the hunt myself as that is a big part of the fun.

[ndnchf]

Here is a video of me shooting the 1866 split breech with an original copper case .56-52 that I reloaded. This cartridge is interchangable with tthe .56-50. https://youtu.be/DSLzYfoNN4Q

[ndnchf]

Speaking of .58s. Here is a video of me shooting a Remington rolling block in .58 Roberts. https://youtu.be/t151cMpjyxM

[elk hunter]

ndnchf;

Thanks for the videos. Very interesting to say the least.

[toot]

I too enjoy the challenge of the odd and unusual. My navy carbine is a put-together, but it shoots well. I'm now playing with its predecessor - a Remington split breech carbine in .56-50 rimfire. I've converted centerfire cases to rimfire, using a .22 blank as the primer. But lately I've been repriming and reloading original copper rimfire cases. Great fun :-)

just how do you reload original copper rim fire cases? I wasn't aware it was possible? I have cases for my RIMFIRE, JOSLYN. I got them from BOB HAYLEY, in TEXAS. they are 50 Cal cases with the primer pocket filled in and a 22 ACORN BLANK, inserted into it.

[ndnchf]

This video explains how I do it and shows my first test. This was an original 38 rimfire case, but the process is the same for any size.

https://youtu.be/lfL_5qMey2o

[ndnchf]

I have about 30 antique firearms related video on my youtube channel.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaI37ff_Xx68Gt1PeoXtvKtcAr3VWEUrT

[toot]

Speaking of .58s. Here is a video of me shooting a Remington rolling block in .58 Roberts. https://youtu.be/t151cMpjyxM

what was the basic cartridge that you used to make the round?. toot.

[ndnchf]

what was the basic cartridge that you used to make the round?. toot.

They are machined from solid brass. Rocky Moutain Cartridge made them, then I modified them to suit the rifle.

[toot]

Toot, I understand. I'm right behind you. I'll be 26 in a couple of weeks. The 26 isn't the problem, it's the 50 years experience at being 25 that hurts.

I'm officially jealous. A real Navy contract RB, WOW.

yes so much knoweledge and so little time! that sucks!

[toot]

They are machined from solid brass. Rocky Moutain Cartridge made them, then I modified them to suit the rifle.

thanking you for the come back. I was courious, because it is such a gigantic case? if you please, what modification did you have to do after receiving them? and do you use a 58 CAL. MINNIE in them?

[ndnchf]

I had to thin the case mouth to allow them to hold a .595" diameter minie. I had a Lyman minie mold opened up to .595" to match the groove size.

[elk hunter]

I had to thin the case mouth to allow them to hold a .595" diameter minie. I had a Lyman minie mold opened up to .595" to match the groove size.

I'd be tempted to try a .600 round ball in it if it would chamber. Lee does or did make such a mould. It seems it is popular with the 577 Snider guys. You could also patch up a light 577 bullet. They generally measure .585 or there about.

I'm still jealous.

[ndnchf]

I've tried a lot of things over the years. But the .594/.595" minie works the best. Some of it was posted years ago on CASCITY here: https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=50010.0

[toot]

ndnchf, thanks for posting the process. most people don't think it can't be done. where there is a will there is a way! toot.

[toot]

OK! thank you. toot.

[toot]

I'd be tempted to try a .600 round ball in it if it would chamber. Lee does or did make such a mould. It seems it is popular with the 577 Snider guys. You could also patch up a light 577 bullet. They generally measure .585 or there about.

I'm still jealous.

I shoot a .600 DIA, RB'S. in my .577 SNIDER IN PLASTIC 24 GAUGE HULLS FROM BALISTIC PRODUCTS. cheep & when they burn through just chuck them away.

[toot]

Toot;

My cases are trimmed to 1.350 more or less. They came with the carbine. I use my 56-50 Spencer dies to load them.

I had a brain fart. I remembered you saying that you used 56/50 SPENCER dies to load them. well I tried many of my loaded SPENCER rounds in my 50/45, and they chambered just fine. so question is can they be fired in the 55/45 RB?

[toot]

sorry I meant 50/45.RB. TOOT.

[toot]

just another senior moment, CRS! toot.

[elk hunter]

Toot;

I would think that if your Spencer load is safe in it, and they chamber freely, they would be safe to shoot in the RB. The common Springfield Armory load for the 56-50 Spencer was 45 grains of powder and a 350 grain bullet. The caliber designation 50-45-400 tells us all about the load for your Navy rifle and it is heavier than the Spencer load.

[toot]

thanks. I will try shooting it with a SPENCER CASE, with a spencer bullet. I beleave that they are the same DIA, 515? and 25 grs. of 3FG. it will be a light load so I will use a cotton ball to take up the air space in the case. I don't want to harm the ROLLER!

[ndnchf]

thanks. I will try shooting it with a SPENCER CASE, with a spencer bullet. I beleave that they are the same DIA, 515? and 25 grs. of 3FG. it will be a light load so I will use a cotton ball to take up the air space in the case. I don't want to harm the ROLLER!

A full load won't harm the roller. But if you want to use a reduced load, using cream of wheat or grits as a filler would be safer. A cotton ball can still leave unwanted air space.

[toot]

thank you for the information you have provided me on air space using cotton balls. I will use a full load in the cases, do you mean just leave enough room to have the bullet or RB, to go into the case and chamber? and what grade of black, 2FG. or 3FG? have you tried to load 56 / 50 SPENCER cases in the 50 / 45 and shot them? just courious? will any .515 DIA, weight bullet or RB. work in the gun? sorry for all the questions, but you are very knowledgeable on this subject. I make my 56 / 50 SPENCERS from my 50 / 70's when the case mouths split, just cut them back. they work fine.

[ndnchf]

You do not want any airspace with black powder. So fill it to the base of the bullet with 3F or a little more. Seating the bullet will compress it which help it to burn more consistently. I've not shot 56-50s in my .50-45 because my .56-50s are rimfire. But there is no good reason that you can't fire the centerfire version. The bullet just has a little further to jump to the rifling. A 350gr bullet is the original .56-50 bullet weight. 400gr is the original .50-45 weight. But I use 350 in both.

[toot]

thank you so much sir. this information you are providing me will go into my personal loading record book on what I call odd ball, black powder cartridge loads. it is nice to talk to guys that have been there and done it, and freely share information with others when questions are asked. toot.

[vagrantviking]

32ga Magtech brass shotgun shells can be cut down and used for the 50Army rolling block round similar to the 56-50 cases. They are nice in that the wall thickness is the same all the way down.

[toot]

all that has to be done is just cut them down to overall legenth, that is all that has to be done? if so that is great, because 56-50, can be shot in a 50-45. RB.

[ndnchf]

That all - EZ Peazy :-D

[toot]

WOW! it is so simple that A CAVE MAN CAN GO IT!! it is amazing the amount of knoweledge that is on this site?!! and shared with all to enjoy the knoweledge. I never would of thought of using MAG TECH, 32 GAUGE, as a parent case. thanking you again. yes EZ Peazy.!

[elk hunter]

Years ago I bought 100 of the old CBC brass 16 gauge cases, made in Brazil, and am very pleased with them. I'm not much of a fan of Mag Tech cases, again made in Brazil, imported by Mag Tech. I bought two boxes of the Mag Tech 24 gauge brass to make 577 Snider cases and had many splits while forming and on firing the first time. I made the mistake of not annealing before forming the first few as they were new and the neck only slightly smaller than the the original case dimension. But as the saying goes, (your mileage may vary).

[toot]

it seems that MAG-TEC does for fill a void for many case reformers. I have made many 577,s & 577-450's, out of the CBC brass hulls. it all depends on one's income. I think that we all have had failures with forming brass? even with the KANGEROO Co. or BELL BRASS? jmho. I was under the impression that MAG-TEC brass is head stamped-CBC? and MAG-TEC, they were the distributor?