200gr 38 Special Super Police (can you help me get the mold to release)

[Stopsign32v]

So I love so much heavy weight boolits in all calibers! So when I learned of the 200gr Super Police load I had to have the mold! It makes nice boolits but it absolutely will not drop the boolits! I have to tap on the handles of the mold for a solid 1 minute or longer before it will drop them. I Q-tip swabbed the mold with 2 stroke oil and it dropped 2 boolits nicely and then went back to them sticking. The mold was nice and hot so that was not it. It takes so long to drop that the mold cools off and at one point started making wrinkled boolits. Can't figure this one out...

I could seat the boolit a little deeper but this is just a dummy round anyways. Need to look up some loads for it in both 38spl brass and 357 Mag brass.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51420377071_c0eb47d0bc_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/7n3292)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51420636833_0f30c3179e_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/s70Ka3)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51420636893_78232516d6_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/n1qk42)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51419635757_f4c1601959_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/1m7v64)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51421144384_7c8d2702a7_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/9L6f6q)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51421364210_574939feed_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/6P2789)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51420687693_cf83639250_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/nj576S)

[huntnman]

I'm suspicious that the mold is not mating correctly the parting lines don't look correct.

[badguybuster]

Id love to know the specifics of that load

[358429]

Does light shine through evenly when you hold the closed mold in between your eye and a bright light source like sun or a strong lamp?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Stopsign32v]

Does light shine through evenly when you hold the closed mold in between your eye and a bright light source like sun or a strong lamp?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Yep

[JimB..]

Apologies if I misunderstood, did you wipe inside the cavities with oil?

Edit: and I want some of those for suppressed carbine, wonder of they’ll stabilize at walking speeds.

[ohen cepel]

Edit: and I want some of those for suppressed carbine, wonder of they’ll stabilize at walking speeds.

Badman bullets (and I think Penn) also make 230gr 38/357 options for pin shooting. Looks like a pencil cut and put into the round but pretty neat if you want heavy for caliber.

[Stopsign32v]

Anyone have any comments on the marks left on the mold? Looks like aluminum tape was placed in some areas by a previous owner. Maybe because of this problem?

[Dusty Bannister]

What is the alloy and how long does it take for the sprue to become solid? If very hot it may not have begun to shrink when you are trying to remove the casting. Do the blocks stick, or just the bullet sticks in one block? What is the residue on the face of the blocks? the mold seam does seem a bit more than preferred.

[Stopsign32v]

What is the alloy and how long does it take for the sprue to become solid? If very hot it may not have begun to shrink when you are trying to remove the casting. Do the blocks stick, or just the bullet sticks in one block? What is the residue on the face of the blocks? the mold seam does seem a bit more than preferred.

Not sure on the alloy. It was from a reputable member here about 3 or more years ago. I told him I was going to use it for 45/70 so he said this would work well. (Was a member with over 1,000 posts)

I use a RCBS dipper to pour and I was experimenting with pouring the whole dipper in the mold and then letting it cool while shaking it a bit. This method works wonderfully for me with other molds. It took about 6 seconds to become solid. I'd then crack her open and try to drop. Again this method works fine with all of my other molds. It only sticks on one side of the mold, the one without the plate.

[Piedmont]

Listen to Huntnman. I also think the mold isn't mating properly. It might be handle fit. I've had the mold not close perfectly if there was no play left in the handle fit. Push the blocks together while off the mold and see if the mold closes completely and if you can jiggle each half on the other and feel any play or slight clicking. If so, you can use a punch and hammer and increase or decrease slightly how far those round headed pins protrude. That will adjust whether there is any mold play between the halves when closed (you don't want any play).

[JimB..]

Badman bullets (and I think Penn) also make 230gr 38/357 options for pin shooting. Looks like a pencil cut and put into the round but pretty neat if you want heavy for caliber.
Thanks!

[Dusty Bannister]

LOL, Quit doing what you are doing and try something else. Obviously, this mold does not like being treated like you are doing it. One pour, decent sprue, cut when at solid phase, let cool a couple more seconds, tap a handle end as you open the mold. Try turning the mold on the side away from the sticking block. Perhaps the extra length of the casting is binding in the block and that results in stuck bullet. What are the bullet dimensions measured with a micrometer at three points on the body of the casting. That will tell you if the mold has been messed with. You may want to consider polishing the cavity even though it looks like it has been "scrubbed" already.

[Stopsign32v]

Could this be a problem?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51422312125_0013ddbd80_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/02NQu0)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51421327571_d88417788b_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/36v5J9)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51422312080_a8f09d17c7_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/V7VT51)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51422087659_92dc10237f_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/V01ye2)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yep, those are the wrong handles.
you need the handles for a single cavity mold.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?191948-The-Right-Handles-Pic-Thread!!

[Stopsign32v]

Yep, those are the wrong handles.
you need the handles for a single cavity mold.

They were sold as single cavity handles, are they not?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51422119974_f5b9d077b4_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/5bF39C)

[photomicftn]

They were sold as single cavity handles, are they not?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51422119974_f5b9d077b4_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/5bF39C)

Some helpful discussion on the differences in Lyman/Ideal small mold handles:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?268506-Lyman-small-handles-are-not-all-created-equal

[Rich/WIS]

The pics of the closed mold show a gap on the end nearer the handles. Can't tell but looks like a small burr on the right mhand mold block. Do the blocks move easily on the handles when the mold is open? Had a similar problem (mold closing, not sticking) with Lyman handles, needed to thin the handles to let the blocks move freely. Also may be an issue with the handles in front of the holes for the mold screws. The inside edges may need to be relieved slightly to allow the mold to close completely. Have you tried a different set of handles? The sticking may be due to burrs on the mating surfaces of the blocks, had that issue on a mold and removing the burrs fixed the issue.

[downzero]

You may be able to simply loosen the handles a bit so that the mold can cam closed. Either way it needs to close all the way to make good bullets.

[JimB..]

Looks like a bit of lead holding the blocks apart, but either way I’d remove the handles and see how well the mold mates up. If that’s not good then clean them if needed or determine if they are warped (sucks, but it happens). If they are good without the handles, then assemble with loose handles and see how they mate. It’s the long way around vs just loosening the handles, but I always prefer to diagnose the problem rather than just trying possible solutions.

[Stopsign32v]

How do you loosen the handles?

[green mountain boy]

back out the screws holding mold in the handle....they will be free to move more, then try to close.

[Chill Wills]

After you check the blocks ability to close completely when removed from the handles - If it is the handles causing the problem of the blocks not closing all the way you ARE allowed to carefully file the insides of the handles to loosen the fit.

It may not take more than a few file strokes to get the blocks to close all the way when installed in the handles. This is a simple file and fit - file and fit. Remove a little at the time mostly on the forward inside ends - from the hole to the end.

[cainttype]

^^^^
Listen to Chill Wills…. Check the blocks ability to close properly off the handles.
If they close properly OFF the handles you can file from the securing screw hole to the end of the arms on the inside flat that sits against the mold blocks to give you the clearance you need to allow the blocks to pivot on closing and allow them to mate properly.

You should be able to see them bind there now, at the forward end of those arms, preventing your blocks to pivot into place.
Just remove enough to allow proper closing and your handles will still be fine with double cavity blocks.

[cainttype]

Solve that first…. The test your blocks again.
Fix one issue at a time… Patience can prevent creating new problems.

[Stopsign32v]

back out the screws holding mold in the handle....they will be free to move more, then try to close.

Yea I already did that. They were lose when this picture was taken.

[country gent]

Look where the handle sit with a little use burnish marks should show where if they are rubbing.

I would check the block screws in the handles if tight the handles cant float like they should. If the screws are snug you can open the holes in the handles with a slightly bigger drill or sand the screws down little.

When the blocks are moving free it the bullets sticking continues then try shading the cavities with a pencil to help lubricate the cavities

[gwpercle]

Give the blocks a good cleaning and make sure all is level and flat and both halves mate up well .

And clean up the handles and the surfaces the blocks attach to .

The blocks aren't mating together well , clean and level all surfaces untill no light can be seen through the closed mould ... do the same to the handles , there should be no binding and no daylight seen when held closed by the handles .

Old moulds can give you fits to re-condition and get back casting again ... the good news is steel moulds can take a lot of abuse and are usually easy to fix .
Gary

[Stopsign32v]

Is there a good read up on how to clean these old molds?

[45-70 Chevroner]

The real problems lye in the cavity of the mold. Yes the handles need to be fixed and the mold blocks need to be able to close all the way. I bought a custom mold a long time ago and in my first casting session the boolit was stuck in one side of the mold, there was no getting that boolit out of the mold. I sent the mold back and they sent me a new one, they put a note in with it saying that the cavities were not centered in the blocks. It sounds like this is the problem with your mold because the boolit is sticking only in one side. Your problem isn't as severe as mine was because you can at least get the boolit out. I had that same mold at one time and cast a lot of boolits from it. It shot quite well in my S&W Highway Patrol model 27, loaded in 38 Special cases.

[gwpercle]

I wonder if the mould blocks are miss-matched .
When someone gets a right side from one set and a left side from another set and puts the miss matched blocks together for a quick E-Bay sell ... you get the off set 1/2 cavity and it doesn't want to release .
Stopsign32v ... do the blocks have matching assembly numbers ? I'm not talking about mould I.D. number like # 358430 but another number(s) that should be on each half of the blocks and should match .
Worth looking at . Reason I mention this is a member wanted to buy a mould , plenty of photo's but none of assembly #'s , seller wouldn't answer questions and wanted payment in money order ...
He thought it odd as I did and he passed on what was probably miss matched mould .
Gary

[Old Caster]

I wonder if the mould blocks are miss-matched .
When someone gets a right side from one set and a left side from another set and puts the miss matched blocks together for a quick E-Bay sell ... you get the off set 1/2 cavity and it doesn't want to release .
Stopsign32v ... do the blocks have matching assembly numbers ? I'm not talking about mould I.D. number like # 358430 but another number(s) that should be on each half of the blocks and should match .
Worth looking at . Reason I mention this is a member wanted to buy a mould , plenty of photo's but none of assembly #'s , seller wouldn't answer questions and wanted payment in money order ...
He thought it odd as I did and he passed on what was probably miss matched mould .
Gary

I don't think the blocks are mismatches because the picture of the mold shows that the machine mark swirls match each other. I have a feeling that the mold was not machined correctly because it always sticks on one side. The blocks not closing may be from the handles but may be from incorrect machining too. As mentioned previously make sure if the blocks close without the handles and then move on to the next problem.

[Daekar]

Thanks!

I can confirm that the Badman 230gr WCs shot well out of my Encore pistol. Didn't try them out of a revolver, though.

[Stopsign32v]

UPDATE

You guys were right, the handles were incorrect. This explains the odd casting line on my 358311 that I used these handles with. So below is the mold off the handles and on the new handles. Also a picture of the two handles that I have, clearly they are different. Incorrect handles on the left and correct handles on the right. I haven't molded with it yet, I plan to tonight. Right now I sprayed out the cavities with brake cleaner and maybe will shade it in with pencil later but really I want to see how it does with the correct handles first I think.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51424117273_6ffed81a8d_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/3vkzQF)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51424117233_fa2a7c249f_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/5xhNhi)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51424848980_43e2186bed_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/9UWu0H)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51424848935_406ef5febc_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/1up6P1)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I look forward to hearing about the casting results

[alamogunr]

This thread is interesting in that I've never seen a discussion on 200 gr. .38 boolits. Made even more interesting to me because I have a H&G #138 four cavity mold that I've never used because I didn't know what to use I would have for such a boolit.

[Stopsign32v]

This thread is interesting in that I've never seen a discussion on 200 gr. .38 boolits. Made even more interesting to me because I have a H&G #138 four cavity mold that I've never used because I didn't know what to use I would have for such a boolit.

This is mainly to fix my issues. But this weekend I think I will be making a dedicated 200gr .38cal thread with some info and stuff I've found while researching.

[JimB..]

That looks good!

[Stopsign32v]

I honestly wish I could come with better news. Good news I suppose is now the mold mates nicely with the correct handles. Sadly the boolits still stick even with pencil trick. I didn't cast many with it tonight but here are what I did cast. *special guest NOE 45 Colt*

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51425183693_5fa8bb7920_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/75UVHv)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51425697094_9ff25482f1_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/3YB029)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51425917600_a44a98b418_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/Hw20A5)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51425183548_9ebeb3902d_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/7e6y5m)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51425183518_82b952b9d5_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/2c4R2S)

[Burnt Fingers]

Maybe it's just me but it appears that the mold cavities are a bit offset.

[Stopsign32v]

I think I might be looking for another set of 358430 molds. :lol:

[Outpost75]

I think I might be looking for another set of 358430 molds. :lol:

I would recommend instead the NOE clone of the British Mk1 Service bullet. You can order in various diameters to fit any gun.

[Stopsign32v]

I would recommend instead the NOE clone of the British Mk1 Service bullet. You can order in various diameters to fit any gun.

Which one is that? I believe the NOE clone (close) of this boolit is currently out of stock sadly.

[Outpost75]

had 12 4-cavity aluminum .363-204 RN in stock when my neighor ordered his yesterday.
About $100 each.

[Stopsign32v]

This won’t be that much of a used boolit. I’m just going to wait for another nice example of the 358430. Heck maybe someone on here has one to sell

[muskeg13]

The handles on the right appear they may have been slightly modified as explained by Chill Wills above. The interior edges of the tangs are not exactly straight, parallel, with the outside edges. Unless you intend to have dedicated handles mated with a particular mould block, you may wish to modify the handles on the left so you can use any of your handles with any of your moulds without having to worry about it in the future.

[Stopsign32v]

The handles on the right appear they may have been slightly modified as explained by Chill Wills above. The interior edges of the tangs are not exactly straight, parallel, with the outside edges. Unless you intend to have dedicated handles mated with a particular mould block, you may wish to modify the handles on the left so you can use any of your handles with any of your moulds without having to worry about it in the future.

They are double cavity handles and work great on my DC 311299 mold

[jsizemore]

Is there a good read up on how to clean these old molds?

https://www.hensleygibbs.com/casting/cleaning.htm

This is part of a larger sticky about H&G molds in the classics and stickies page. My main tools to clean lead are a brass brush with solid brass bristles, a left over sprue that acts like a hand held eraser and popsicle sticks sharpened to whatever shape I need. The mold heated to casting temp helps also.

When I get a mold I completely disassemble it (except for the alignment pins) detail clean it and lube with copper bearing anti-sieze especially the the screws. Anti-sieze on the screws improves my ability to remove them in the future. If there is any stoning or lapping to be done, now is the time like scarring of the mold block tops from the sprue plate which wasn't lubed and check alignment pins for fit. If the top edge of the mold blocks haven't had the edge beveled I do that all the way around no more than a couple thousandths of an inch. The top inner edges by the mold cavity base/s need to be broke just a little to help the bullet base fill out completely. The vent lines for the mold block faces are only a couple thousandths deep and that's all that's needed. DON'T use a file. I use a fine DMT diamond knife sharpening stone but any fine polishing stone will work. 2 or 3 passes with a light touch is all that's necessary at a 45 degree angle. Breaking the outer edges keeps the sprue plate from dragging if it's too loose. LUBE THE TOP OF THE MOLD BLOCKS AND BOTTOM OF THE SPRUE PLATE. I use synthetic 2 cycle oil on a Q-tip when the mold is up to temp. Only takes a drop or 2.

Treated right, those molds will last your lifetime and beyond. I can only hope that the next person that gets one of my molds thinks the same way.

[bruce381]

if everything lines up right sometimes I lightly lap the cavities with a bullet covered in a light grit lapping compound. Drill a hole in bass screw in a brass screw an few turns with screwdriver will get out whatever is hanging them up works for me.