.410 crimp?

[msta999]

Hi all, I'm having trouble with my crimp or about 25 percent of them. Here is a pic, does this look like the slug is not down far enough? or something else?

288166

288167

[msta999]

AA hull, Thug slug with wad attached - 8gram, 11 grains of 4756, win 209, fold crimp

[too many things]

what are you trying a fold or a roll? press dont do roll. and most presses dont do a fold well on 410
BPI has a super crimp that works. about 30.00 +

[toallmy]

It seems the slug is deep enough to crimp , but the crimp is definitely mangled . Tell us more about your loading procedure .
I load 410s on a little Mec and if I put the hull in the final crimp station all the way back it's slightly out of line and will mangle the crimp .
It seams you're starting with a out of line or bad precrimp , & it's holding the hull out of place when finishing the crimp - mangling it .

[Greg S]

Crimping 410 hulls can be a fickle process. I've never crimped slugs but thousands of skeet loads. As hulls build multiple loadings, hulls grow and crimps get weaker.

Your hulls look once fired but your column height looks low. For birdshot I'd say try a Federal wad in that AA hull as the cup is thicker which ≈ taller column height. Do you have any card wads (under the slug? Does the receipe call for one?

[gunarea]

Hey msta
As you are finding out, 410 is an ornery little thing. Your slug height is just a pinch too much. There are a few solutions which can help. With your failure rate low it is possible to consolidate the propellant charge for the additional room needed for a good crimp. A small personal vibrator applied to the hull after charging and before slug insertion, can decrease charge volume. Slightly more pressure on slug installation may cure height. Switch to a more dense propellant for space saving. Overfilling a 410 makes a good crimp very difficult to get. It is easier to accommodate under capacity with punched out wad cards. For slugs in a 410, an overshot card does wonders for getting good crimps. What you show, is more ugly than unusable. The irregular crown makes loading into a tube magazine aggravating but seldom affects even auto loading firearms. Shoot em and polish your loading techniques. Hope this helps.
Roy

[msta999]

It seems the slug is deep enough to crimp , but the crimp is definitely mangled . Tell us more about your loading procedure .
I load 410s on a little Mec and if I put the hull in the final crimp station all the way back it's slightly out of line and will mangle the crimp .
It seams you're starting with a out of line or bad precrimp , & it's holding the hull out of place when finishing the crimp - mangling it .

I am using a Mec Jr, older one, and I noticed sometimes the slug/wad combo, doesn't look deep enough, so I will take it up to 20 - 25 lbs to push the slug down a little more, I normally set it to 15 lbs, but I left this one so I can apply more pressure if need be. and some of the loads, that crimp ok, are not flat on top, may be tapered a little, if you set the loaded shell upside down, it will tilt some.
I did get some other hulls in and will try them to see if there is any difference, with these (AA) I had to add 1 grain of powder to the load to get it to cycle my AR style 410 correctly.

I just re read your post and I too have noticed when I put the hull in the last crimp station, it seems out of line sometimes, I'll have to look into that, maybe the shell holder is miss aligned a little.....

[msta999]

what are you trying a fold or a roll? press dont do roll. and most presses dont do a fold well on 410
BPI has a super crimp that works. about 30.00 +
I am doing a fold crimp. I'll look at the tool you mentioned, thanks.

[msta999]

Crimping 410 hulls can be a fickle process. I've never crimped slugs but thousands of skeet loads. As hulls build multiple loadings, hulls grow and crimps get weaker.

Your hulls look once fired but your column height looks low. For birdshot I'd say try a Federal wad in that AA hull as the cup is thicker which ≈ taller column height. Do you have any card wads (under the slug? Does the receipe call for one?

These are thug slugs and the wad is connected to the slug. No cards and the recipe doesn't call for it, I am having trouble getting the wad/slug combo to seat the same on each hull and have to use more pressure on some, to get the combo down further......could be the problem I guess....Thanks.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The crimp on .410's is dependent on getting the hull under the pre-crimp timed right. There are splines inside the pre-crimper that go inside of the previous folds and push them back in their proper place.. If they are not aligned to the previous folds sometimes they will mangle the crimp. Usually the Pre-crimper has some Ridges on the outside that coincide with the Splines on the inside. If you line up the previous crimp's folds with the ridges on the outside, the hull should close properly.

Most of these tools are designed to float radially so they can line up on their own, however they don't always line up and that's when the crimp gets mangled.

Even setting the hull under the Pre-crimper so that you think it is lined up is not fool proof! I have loaded thousands of .410 AA adn HS hulls and I get a bad one about 1 /25-50. My record after I figured this out was 100 strait with perfect crimps. #101 went to ship, so nothing is 100% fool Proof!

This is what they should look like.

Randy

[msta999]

yours looks a lot better than mine! I have been thinking about getting a complete new die set, this one is pretty old. I did buy a new pre-crimp but it sticks to the hull, I can back it off till it stays on the stud, but then it doesn't fully pre-crimp the hull.

[trapper9260]

The crimp on .410's is dependent on getting the hull under the pre-crimp timed right. There are splines inside the pre-crimper that go inside of the previous folds and push them back in their proper place.. If they are not aligned to the previous folds sometimes they will mangle the crimp. Usually the Pre-crimper has some Ridges on the outside that coincide with the Splines on the inside. If you line up the previous crimp's folds with the ridges on the outside, the hull should close properly.

Most of these tools are designed to float radially so they can line up on their own, however they don't always line up and that's when the crimp gets mangled.

Even setting the hull under the Pre-crimper so that you think it is lined up is not fool proof! I have loaded thousands of .410 AA adn HS hulls and I get a bad one about 1 /25-50. My record after I figured this out was 100 strait with perfect crimps. #101 went to ship, so nothing is 100% fool Proof!

This is what they should look like.

Randy

Now I do not feel bad for all you wrote , I find that use the Mec single stage to finish off the 3". No problem with the 2 1/2" , What I do is finish the 3" with my Lee hand loader that is for 3 " , I also have it for 2 1/2" that is how I learn at first to reload shotgun for both 12 ga and 410

[toallmy]

It's became a natural thing to me to roll the hull a bit between my left thumb and forefinger when the precrimp die is just beginning to come in contact with the hull , feeling it line up .
The little 410 hull is a tricky little bugger easily smashed . I noticed the line on your hull showing the bad fold side forcing the hull over in the final crimp die resulting in a off set final crimp .

[msta999]

I dropped the pre crimp down a little so the hull is closed more, before the crimp and so far that has worked, I need to buy one of the better pre crimps though, mine is new and keeps coming off the stud.