What are your Kirst conversion experiences?

[johnsonian09]

I'm thinking about getting a kirst conversion kit with the ejector rod/loading gate for a pietta 1858. I dont do CAS however I do enjoy shooting paper cartridges out of it as is. I just dont like worrying about immediate cleaning afterwards, after a long day of shooting I'm beat and tired but I do love it.

Anyone here installed it?

Was it difficult to fit?

How well does it perform?

What is the pressure limit for what is considered a 'cowboy load'?

[Will it take a 255 keith or similar loaded between 850-1000fps like on PG.453 in the Lyman 50 manuals published loads?]

Will I still be able to run my bp cylinder afterwards?
[Currently load the Johnston and dow bullet from eras gone (217grn conical) over 40grains of 777]

Are you pleased with the resulting gun from this conversion kit or is there a better product for this application?

Cheers.

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[jim147]

I may have one around here for that, would need to look. My brother has had several and only had a problem with one. Sent it back and they fixed it.

I picked mine up on sale before life hit and have have never bought pistols for them.

[rintinglen]

I have the Howell Conversion for my 1860 armies. Because of the open topped frame, I only load light 45 Schofield loads for it. On one of mine, it was drop in, the other required polishing the center hole to get it to fit on the arbor. It was pretty easy to install. Cowboy loads are defined by velocity, not pressure, but I restrict my loads to cerca 750 FPS. I load the 45-230 CM from RCBS over 4.5 grains of Red Dot or 5.5 grains of Unique. According to Lyman's 4th edition Cast Bullet Handbook,these run under 10,000 PSI. I would not load a 250 grain Keith to 850+. Those loads are pretty heavy (13,000-14,000 psi, or more) for six shooters designed and built for Black Powder.

My brother has an 1858, also set up with a Howell conversion, and has put several hundred rounds down range with it, all factory 45 Colt (he doesn't reload for that cartridge). He had to replace the front sight with a higher one to bring down the POI to more closely match the POA.
288126The boolits in these are an Old Ideal design, the 456-401, a spire point wadcutter boolit that runs about 220 grains, IIRC.

[johnsonian09]

Does your brother shoot Factory cowboy loads or regular modern munitions? I didn't think the bp barrels could deal with anything jacketed.

So cowboy ammo is sub -800fps. Sounds like cast wadcutters would like those speeds for punching paper.

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[rintinglen]

Factory Cowboy. Not much Jacketed 45 Colt ammo on the shelves. He has only shot black Hills Cowboy stuff, as far as I know.

[Markopolo]

i have one.... it was a fun project.

288136

288137

288138

dont be scared, dive in!!!!

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. johnsonian09- I believe that you would be very satisfied with the workmanship and function of a Kirst converter. I bought one for a Pietta .36 revolver and found that it was really cool. Later I realized that what I wanted was a cap & ball revolver in the first place so I sold the converter. But if what you want is a cap & ball revolver which you can change into a black powder cartridge revolver, then the Kirst device is a great way to go.

[bedbugbilly]

I purchased a used Kirst Konverter for a Uberti 1858 Remington NMA (.44) from a member here - it had the 45ACP cylinder. While it is my understanding that once i a while some "fitting" is required, I have 3 Uberti revolvers - 2 (" and a 5", as well as a Uberti 1858 Remington Revolving Carbine. The cylinder I have, fit all of them with no issues and functioned just fine.

If you go with a Kirst, keep in mind that you will need to open up the loading channel on your revolver in order to utilize the loading gate and be able to insert/eject. Gofswithwolves makes a good point for you to consider. If ou like your cap and ball - then consider if it is worth making the alterations to the revolver for the Kirst and if when shooting as a cap and ball, if you can live with it not having the appearance of an unaltered 1858. If not - and you still would like to have the option of shooting 45 Colt/Schofield - then consider a Howell Conversion Cylinder. IMHO, the 1858s are one of the easiest revolvers to remove and replace cylinders in. With a Howell, you remove the cylinder, load, and replace - no loading gate - but also no alterations to your cap and ball revolver.

I have quite a collection of C & B revolvers (.36 and .44) and probably a total of 5 or 6 Howell Conversion Cylinders - both for .36 and .44 Remingtons and .36 and .44 Colts. They work well and I am very happy with them. The Remingtons are easy to remove, load and replace - the open top Colts - not so much as you have to remove the barrel wedge and barrel each time to reload the cylinder - but they work just fine.

Those things said . . . I really do like the Kirst. I am going to order a 45 Colt cylinder to go with the backplate of the used 45 ACP Konverter I bought - this will give me the option of using either cylinder. I have been debating which revolver I want to cut the loading groove in to and have decided I am going to do it on my 5" Uberti. Again, the Howells work just fine on all o fly Remingtons but I like the idea of the Kirst and loading gate. It can still be removed from the 5" and used in all the others, but without the alteration to allow clearance for the cartridge, it will have to be removed each time for reloading just as the Howell cylinders require.

I recently picked up a Ubderfti 1851 Navy with a 5 inch barrel - and as soon as Kirst gets the gated conversions for them back in stock, I plan on putting on on it. My favorite C & B revolver has been the '51 Navy for almost 60 years and I have a number of them in C & B to keep in that form. I really enjoy loading the heeled 38 Colt Shorts for use in the .36 Navies with the conversion cylinders that I have.

I think yo would be happy with either the Kirst or a Howell - they are both well made and high quality. If you don't mind making the alterations to your Remington - a Kirst will allow you a loading gate. If you want to keep the revolver in its original form - then the Howell will certainly do the ob as well. If you decide to go with a Howell - check their website and at the top, on the banner - they sometimes show what they have in "blemished" cylinders - these are cylinders that might possible have a small blueing defect where they touched another cylinder when dipped in the blueing process. They give a small discount on them. I have purchased two of their "bleached" conversion cylinders and when I received them, I had to really look to see any blemish. I should also mention that like Kirst, Howell also motes that sometimes there cylinders may require fitting. MYVW I m lucky - but like th used Kirst Konverter I purchased that fit and functioned fine in the 3 Uberti revolvers and carbine that I have, all of the Howell cylinders that I have purchased for Remington and Colt clones have all gone right in perfectly and indexed and locked up tight right out of the box.

Good luck in whatever direction you choose and have fun.

Marko - your conversion looks great! That really turned out nice!

im

[johnsonian09]

When the cylinder does not fit what must you do to make it function? I'm not entirely sure what I would have to do to 'time' a revolver if that's involved.

I'm comfortable with grinding the cut away in the recoil shield for the cartridges. As I think when I shoot cap and ball it will make it easier to cap it considering my sausage fingers and always forgetting to pack the little tool to do it.

Can the ejector rod and the ball- ramrod both be installed on the gun at the same time?

I originally got it because I ran out of primers for plinking 38special and couldn't get any. And I can make my own percussion caps alot easier then making primer cups and anvils. So I got into making the caps and paper cartridges, cast bullets for it, etc. Its honestly a wonderful fun gun. I just want to add the capability of cartridges so I can plink longer-cleaner at the range.





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