I still am amazed that I can make bullets!

[BJK]

Yesterday was cloudy and in the low 70s with no wind and no rain expected. Perfect for me to cast outdoors. So out came the NOE (correction, M&P) 135g 9mm mold that drops 9 at once. I wasn't breaking any records for fast moves, and today when I coated them and after picking out culls I got 840ish. There may be a few more culls though. I'm getting a strange flaw in the base, but I'll make a new thread with pictures. Not a huge amount of them, but any culls are too many and I'd like to know what's causing them.

Now to size them and I need to go easy there. I'm still getting my right arm (mostly) back and I don't want to regress and go backwards from my last repetitive motion injury from sizing bullets a month ago. It's slow in coming back.

I need to work up a load and I'd like to have 4k of them on the shelf so that I can load them this winter.

Same plan goes for a 220gr .308 for 300BLK. But dropping 5 at a time will slow down the casting a bit. Oddly enough the flaws in the base of the 9mms aren't seen in these bullets.

[Springfield]

What does the flaw look like?

[toallmy]

It's nice being able to produce your own boolits , I remember using store bought bullets , I would run out when loading ammunition .

[Went2kck]

It's nice being able to produce your own boolits , I remember using store bought bullets , I would run out when loading ammunition .

Now you run out of store got bullets and go back, the store is out. I am grateful I can make my own.

[BJK]

Here's what the flaws look like. Sorry the 2nd one is out of focus.

I'm casting with a ladle. I was thinking maybe they are air pockets from not having the mould level. They're not many but I'd like to figure out why I get them. They are the only flaw I'm finding. So far I had maybe 30 out of 860 poured (all guesstimates).

https://i.postimg.cc/ydxN6tTX/9mm-base-flaw2-small.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/TPRwFpLs/9mm-base-flaw-small.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[JoeJames]

Now you run out of store got bullets and go back, the store is out. I am grateful I can make my own.

It just gets better and better. Took awhile but it finally began to dawn on me that my own cast Lee .430" 240 grain SWC's were actually more accurate in my Ruger 44 Special than my old store bought bullets. Same again for my button nose .358" 148 grain button nose wad cutters. For one thing mine were not hard cast. Just really had a glow on after realizing I was saving quite a bit of money and shooting more accurate bullets. Of course the extra even above that is that I really enjoy the casting process.

[MUSTANG]

BJK:

The flaw looks the same on both boolits in the pic you posted. I understand from your post that the flaw is a small percentage of those cast and you indicate that you have a 9 cavity mold. I would look at each cavity of the mold and see of you have a piece of foreign material adhered to the side wall of one of the cavities.

[OS OK]

I'm guessing that the cavity is 'gassing' from lube on that side of the mould just inside the base?

Poor pictures to judge whether they are both identical so it being a foreign 'something' I can't say.

Love a good riddle to solve, I always learn something.

[15meter]

Nothing to do with the defect but it looks like Lee lube on the boolit. To my eye it looks like waaaay too much lube.

Look up Ben's Liquid Lube. It's a mix of Lee's and liquid floor was, goes on thinner, dries better and smokes less.

The original recipe called for Johnson's liquid floor was, it's now obsolete but Ben has come up with a different floor wax, although you may be able to find some of the original Johnson's in backwoods hardware stores. I've found a half dozen cans in my travels in northern Michigan over the last two or three years.

Suspect there are a few cans lurking on back shelves in the hinterlands.

Big city hardware stores seem to keep a closer eye on inventory and broom old obsolete stuff sooner.

Silly people, what about us old guys that repurpose that kind of stuff? I'm just trying to be green!.

The looks I've gotten when I told store clerks that I want the Johnson's wax for boolit lube have been great.

They figure I am a candidate for the senile ward down at the old folks home.

Well, I am, but that's a whole 'nother story.

[Valley-Shooter]

I have had that defect before on my 9mm and 40 bullets.
Since it's the top section of the cavity, I have assumed it's incomplete fill out because of slow flow of lead into the cavity and trapped hot gases. Like an air bubble that didn't get forced out thru the vent lines.
I am just guessing on this.
Sometimes times it's a very slight defect that is hard to see. I have definitely shot some these bullets. Still puts holes in the paper.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[sigep1764]

Mustang is on to something. I had something like that with one of my NOE molds. Not sure what it was, but it was stuck to the side of the mold good. Took a propane torch and a popsicle stick to get it off. Might have been a piece of antimony.

[BJK]

Nothing to do with the defect but it looks like Lee lube on the boolit. <snip>

I caught the defect after the first coat of Hi-Tek Old Gold color was applied. The first coating is always spotty and has that look. After the 2nd coat the bullet is uniformly covered.

[BJK]

Sometimes times it's a very slight defect that is hard to see. I have definitely shot some these bullets. Still puts holes in the paper.



I don't bother culling them if the defect is small. But that large do you think it'll affect accuracy?

BTW gents, Thanks. I appreciate the help.

[rockshooter]

I get the exact same defect in all 3 of my no lube groove bullets (made for PC). I stopped using them for that reason. Where did you find a 9-hole NOE mold? That 135 gr NOE bullet (with lube groove) is my favorite for 9mm. .38 Sp, .357.
Loren

[reddog81]

I had a similar problem and it was due to poor venting. Clean out the vent lines on the mold with a pencil or be real careful with a razor blade.

[BJK]

9-hole NOE mold?

Senior moment! It's a M&P mould. Sorry!

The mould is clear and it's not on every drop but inconsistent. I think Valley-Shooter might be on track. There are times that my aim with the ladle isn't what I would wish for. But I'm not going to tap the mould to allow inertia to fill out the cavity. I don't think I would enjoy 700°F lead on my skin if it splashed. Other than a better aim a tap is my other solution, and something I'm not about to do. I thought it was me not holding the mould horizontal and a less than perfect fill, but a lazy fill might account for it. They do happen, more when I start to get fatigued. Maybe I need to take more breaks and enjoy the day. But it's hard for me to slow down. My mind is 20 years old, but my body is a bit older. Too, maybe I just need to give thanks for what I can do and just accept the few culls. But it's annoying! (so is aging- still trying to come grips with it)

[BJK]

I'll try that reddog! Pencil it is.

[charlie b]

For me those things occur when the pour is bad. Either lead 'leaks' into the cavity from the previous one or I just don't get a good puddle on the sprue. As it cools there is no 'extra' lead to fill in so you get that void.

[15meter]

Thought those were boolits for powder coating, but the lube looked like some of my first efforts at tumble lubing.

Learn how to do it a whole bunch better over the years.



Curious what they look like when done, never fooled with powder coating. Always assumed it went on more evenly.

[bruce381]

faster fill hotter mold too

[BJK]

They aren't powder coated but wet coated. 10g of Hi-Tek to 50ml of acetone, then put not much of it on the bullets in a container and flip it around and agitate to coat. It should just be seen but not much. They look much different after the 2nd coat and baking. It's almost a miracle the difference. Yeah, I couldn't believe it was working the first time either, until after the 2nd coating and 2nd bake.

[44Blam]

faster fill hotter mold too

^^^ THIS ^^^
Maybe hotter alloy too?

I throw anything with wrinkles and that bad of fill is a BAD boolit...

[Burnt Fingers]

I'll bet if you take a second to count the cavities you'll find it's an eight cavity mold.

I have the 125 gr eight cavity mold from MP and get the same thing on random boolits. I've put it down as a venting problem. I've chased the vent lines with an awl and I know the mold faces are clean. I've got a couple of other NLG molds from other makers that have the same thing happen randomly.

I use a bottom pour pot. It's frustrating as heck. This ONLY happens to me on NLG molds. I've been thinking that it might be caused by an air bubble getting trapped...basically a venting problem.

[BJK]

Yeah, might be 8 cavities. I know it's the biggest M&P makes. I knew I'd need production since I shoot a lot and didn't think I'd want to play games with just a few cavities.

Thanks Burnt Fingers. From reading the responses and knowing what's happening "on the ground", The random nature of it has me thinking it's a bubble. I'll chase the venting to make sure they're as good as can be. The other thing it could be is as I already wrote, a too lazy fill when my hand forces the stream from the ladle to miss the sprue hole.

[fredj338]

Here's what the flaws look like. Sorry the 2nd one is out of focus.

I'm casting with a ladle. I was thinking maybe they are air pockets from not having the mould level. They're not many but I'd like to figure out why I get them. They are the only flaw I'm finding. So far I had maybe 30 out of 860 poured (all guesstimates).

https://i.postimg.cc/ydxN6tTX/9mm-base-flaw2-small.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/TPRwFpLs/9mm-base-flaw-small.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Sometimes I get those weird flaws with some molds. What I found is alternating the cavity fills reduces it to nearly zero. So I start in the front, then go rear, then back to front. It doesnt take a lot more time but I feel its useful in preventing rejects, which is just more wasted time. I do use a BP pot though, so it is pretty simple to alternate. I really enjoy making my own bullets. Its a sort of forged in fire thing, making something useful out of scrap.

[dverna]

OP,
I have physical limitations that make long casting sessions with bigger molds difficult. My favorite mold was a ten cavity H&G but I could never use it now....

Anyway, I invested in a Master Caster. It does not have the production rate of a 6, 8, or 10 cavity mold but I can produced more bullets per session...it just takes longer. Most two cavity molds will yield about 400 bullets per hour in the Master Caster. New molds were about $100 IIRC, but I have made some decent buys on used ones.

Hopefully your ailment is not too restricting and you can enjoy using your molds, but down the road that may change. I wish I had made the investment years ago. Just something to think about.

[Springfield]

If you are going for production why do you ladle cast? Anyway, unless you have a very large ladle I am betting you have to fill it at least twice to do all the cavities? If so, the mould is probably just not keeping up to temp, especially if you always fill from the same end. Might want to try and reverse the end you fill from once in a while. Or get a bottom pour pot, easier to keep up the casting tempo.

[Daekar]

I get defects like that when my aim is poor and the lead doesn't enter the mold smoothly or the hole in the sprue plate is partially blocked by splash from an adjacent pour.

In my case, it is almost exclusively a defect of technique.

[BJK]

Don, I think time will heal it. I was doing pretty good until I sized some more bullets yesterday, despite doing just a few and mostly using the left hand it did set me back a small amount. For now I think I'll cast bullets when the weather cooperates (I cast outdoors). Casting doesn't hurt me, neither does coating them. Then when I can I'll size them. The Master Caster looks like a possibility if the arm never decides to straighten out. I wish they had heavier .30 bullet molds, but I see that they can adapt other molds to it.

Springfield, 'cause that's how I started and I'm cheap. No other reason. I need to wait for the mould to cool off anyway (I also use a wet towel) so I don't see how a BP pot will speed me up unless I had 2 moulds. But I can still have 2 moulds with a ladle and double production and maybe ditch the soaked towel (or not). I'm considering doing that, just haven't yet. My propane burner melts lead pretty quick and the pot holds a lot. One ladle does all the cavities in one pour that maybe takes 2 seconds. It didn't when I started 'cause my aim was the pits, but it does now. The RCBS ladle is smaller and for that reason I don't like it, I think the other is a Lyman and it holds a bit more.

Daekar, I'm with you on the problem... defect of MY (caps are all mine as is the finger pointing) technique. Well put.

[JoeJames]

I like ladle casting. But I don't cast that many bullets at a time anyway. I am using a 10# Lee Production Pot which stopped up real good when I first started out. I got tired of cleaning it out, and so made a transition to ladle casting. It was when I was just starting up again and all of sudden my bullets started looking real good when using the ladle. Inversion of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" I reckon; since it was broke, but I did not fix it either . I have gotten used to doing it that way, and I like my bullets.

[dverna]

BJK,

I believe that the H&G molds cast so well because they had a huge groove where the melt was poured. I am on my tablet and am not very good with it, so cannot post a picture, but do a search and see if you can find a picture of their sprue plate. Not sure if your sprue plate can be modified. If you know someone with a milling machine that would be the easy way.

I cannot figure out why NLG molds have venting issues and was unaware of the problem until reading comments on this thread.