The Jeep Wagoneer is back!

[Idaho45guy]

I've owned a couple of the full-size Wagoneers and Cherokees from the 70's and 80's and always loved the style.

So when I heard that Jeep was bringing them back, I got pretty excited to see if they managed to capture the styling and romanticism of the old brand. Not that I could ever afford one anyway, assuming they would start around $50k.

Well, they are finally here, and...


https://www.foxnews.com/auto/test-drive-return-of-the-jeep-wagoneer-and-grand-wagoneer


287970

Oh, and the starting prices? For the Wagoneer, it's $60k. For the Grand Wagoneer, it's $90k.

Absolutely ridiculous! The thing looks like a Suburban and a Grand Cherokee had a child with absolutely no styling cues or nod to the legendary Grand Wagoneer of the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's.

Hugely disappointed in Jeep.

Now, if you must absolutely have a true Jeep Grand Wagoneer, there is a company called Wagonmaster that restores them and offers a 100k mile warranty.

These are absolutely mint original Grand Wagoneers.

https://wagonmaster.com/products/1991-final-edition-jeep-grand-wagoneer-4x4-bl-2115-available

But, they are a bit pricey at $122k for the nicest one...

287971

The cheapest one is a bargain at $82k...

287972

I have a buddy that has one he bought as a project vehicle years ago that is sitting next to his shop under a cover. He said he wants $1500 for it. Might have to consider that.

[namsag]

The new one does nothing for me. The old ones to me were one of the most beautiful vehicles, certainly SUVs, ever made. Too bad they were built so poorly! Ten years ago the Wagonmasters were going in the 50K range, that is a big increase.

I'm like your friend, I have a '90 sitting under a carport that has been there a couple of years, it has electrical problems, I guess I ought to do something with it, but I have have kind of become a lot more interested in Land Cruisers.

[echo154]

Yeah.....NO!

[358429]

It's a Fiat.

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[Thundarstick]

Comment retracted.

[Idaho45guy]

I've yet to see any vehicles with variable valve timing engines that don't eat their valve train in 100,000 miles!

What about the Honda V-TEC and VVT engines?

Or the GM Ecotec motor in my 2007 HHR? It has 211k miles with no engine problems.

What Variable Valve Timing engine have you seen that ate it's valve train before 100k miles?

[Randy Bohannon]

It’s a Chrysler product, pass.

[GasGuzzler]

So you thought they'd make it look like the wacky '80's ones AND you're surprised they used the Suburban as a guide when it has ruled the segment for over 80 years?

Okay.

[Idaho45guy]

So you thought they'd make it look like the wacky '80's ones AND you're surprised they used the Suburban as a guide when it has ruled the segment for over 80 years?

Okay.

I'm surprised that you're surprised.

[derek45]

today's SUVs are marketed for soccer moms

...not outdoorsmen

Look what they did to the cherokee and Blazer.....honda CRV clones.

https://i.imgur.com/Mq5Ohug.gif

[Thundarstick]

today's SUVs are marketed for soccer moms

...not outdoorsmen

Look what they did to the cherokee and Blazer.....honda CRV clones.

https://i.imgur.com/Mq5Ohug.gif

Exactly! If it's not got a full pickup truck frame, pass on it!

[Idaho45guy]

Exactly! If it's not got a full pickup truck frame, pass on it!

The new Wagoneer has a full frame, and a Hemi...

288023

As does my 4Runner, which is why I chose it. It does just fine towing my 2300 lbs worth of trailer and UTV, and it is rated at 5,000 lbs, but that is pushing it, in my opinion.

The Wagoneer is rated at 10,000 lbs, which is impressive.

[358429]

The problem is the non serviceable fuses for the totally integrated power control power distribution fuse box, not the powertrain the Engines & Transmissions are okay. A lot of the electronic parts are dealer only and they can be extremely expensive.

If they can separate them self from the backwards engineering and they could be excellent vehicles. I'm surprised they're moving back towards the ladder type frame as opposed to unibody.

Vvt-i failures are from abuse and failure to properly change the oil regularly. And when someone asks me " how long is this going to last?" I ask them " how long do you want it to last?"

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[Thundarstick]

What about the Honda V-TEC and VVT engines?

Or the GM Ecotec motor in my 2007 HHR? It has 211k miles with no engine problems.

What Variable Valve Timing engine have you seen that ate it's valve train before 100k miles?
May have exaggerated that ALL. My daughter's Tahoe did make it to 172,000 before hers failed. Our mechanic said he sees them fail in a little as 50,000 miles, and hers was definitely the exception. Do a little research, and never never buy a high mileage used VVT vehicle! When one of those GM motors is replaced is nearly always with a deactivated VVT valve train. Good news is that on some vehicles the VVT can be disabled by an ECU flash as soon as your factory warranty has expired. If you have a VVT or turbocharger never skimp on oil changes either. The best oil and often.

[DougGuy]

Ehh not for me regardless..

I have never bought a new vehicle, sat inside and looked at the 10 or so miles on the odometer. But.. Never had car payments either!

These days I drive a bit of a new car, I buy a used vehicle cheap, then I dump money into a new motor, transmission if either are needed, good tires, even better brakes, and I do my own exhaust. Front end parts if needed, and I get the vehicle into really good shape, I then proceed to drive my almost "new" vehicle until said new parts are wore out and then I sell it and start again.

If I wanted a Jeep, ^^^^ this would be my Jeep.

[Finster101]

May have exaggerated that ALL. My daughter's Tahoe did make it to 172,000 before hers failed. Our mechanic said he sees them fail in a little as 50,000 miles, and hers was definitely the exception. Do a little research, and never never buy a high mileage used VVT vehicle! When one of those GM motors is replaced is nearly always with a deactivated VVT valve train. Good news is that on some vehicles the VVT can be disabled by an ECU flash as soon as your factory warranty has expired. If you have a VVT or turbocharger never skimp on oil changes either. The best oil and often.

The issue you are talking about is cylinder deactivation or displacement on demand. Not variable valve timing. Completely different systems.

[r80rt]

Just Empty Every Pocket.

[marlin39a]

They’ve always made junk.

[JimB..]

Here’s the thing, it’s just boring.

[Idaho45guy]

Here’s the thing, it’s just boring.

Yep.

My last Jeep Wagoneer...

288033

[358429]

Cool jeep!

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[Geezer in NH]

It’s a Chrysler product, pass.

Agree with that. My 1985 AMC Cherokee went 300+K was a great vehicle.
My wife Chrysler made one went two years till the motor rotted out from the inside.

[Tracy]

Like so many other new vehicles now, they didn't bring anything back. They just capitalized on the name of a well-liked vehicle from the past and applied it to just another typical modern vehicle to boost sales.
Any day now I expect them to introduce a new subcompact, hatchback, electric car and call it a "CJ-5."

[fixit]

I'll agree with the oil change being important for the VVTs. The Chrysler engines are a matter of which one you're dealing with. The 3.6 VVT has impressed me, the one I've got is in a 2013 grand caravan that now has 220,000, with no sign of giving in! As for the Fiat part of things, it is what it is... they have apparently improved under new leadership, so, who knows.

[358429]

The Fiat Chrysler 3.6 is not a bad engine I agree.

The camshafts are soft, get scored and noisy damage the lifters, and the oil filter housing O-rings get brittle and leak at least it's not difficult to work on.

It's not a really stupid pattern failure like a water pump on a Ford Edge that can make the vehicle a total loss.

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[Thundarstick]

The issue you are talking about is cylinder deactivation or displacement on demand. Not variable valve timing. Completely different systems.

May not be the place! But would you educate me on the difference please.

I have a 2014 Wrangler with the 3.6. It did have to have the oil filter/ intercooler replaced, and I've put a water pump on it myself. Currently at 120,000 miles and runs like the day I brought it home. I am a stickler for maintaining my equipment from lawn mowers on up. Tell me about the EDGE water pump issues. Is it certain years and engine? My wife drives a 2015 with the ecoboost engine.

[358429]

The Ford Edge 3.5L V6... the water pump is driven by the timing chain inside the timing cover. There is a weep hole designed that should have leaks it should leak externally and someone should see it.

Usually what I see is a 10 year old vehicle that has been leaking coolant internally so that it mixes with the engine oil and makes the milkshake. The milkshake is not very good at transferring heat or lubricating, so then there is some sort of internal failure, and it usually is more expensive to repair or replace than the vehicle is worth.

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[Idaho45guy]

My buddy is a die-hard Ford guy. His daily driver was a Taurus with the Ecoboost engine. He had a Bronco on order, but he said his water pump went bad and it was a $3000 repair. He bought a Toyota RAV4 and cancelled the Bronco.

[Thundarstick]

The Ford Edge 3.5L V6... the water pump is driven by the timing chain inside the timing cover. There is a weep hole designed that should have leaks it should leak externally and someone should see it.

Usually what I see is a 10 year old vehicle that has been leaking coolant internally so that it mixes with the engine oil and makes the milkshake. The milkshake is not very good at transferring heat or lubricating, so then there is some sort of internal failure, and it usually is more expensive to repair or replace than the vehicle is worth.

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Thank you!

[Finster101]

Well, since the water pump issue was posted. Variable valve timing uses a mechanism on the camshaft to retard or advance valve timing on either the exhaust, the intake or sometimes both depending on the vehicle. Displacement on demand (common in later GM pushrod V8s)Disables certain cylinders by deactivating the lifters and injectors on those cylinders when conditions are met such as cruising or deceleration.

[anothernewb]

Bought a ZJ in 1992. Still the best looking of the jeep line (other than the older wranglers) IMO. This....is as underwhelming as the challenger redesign was eye catching.

[megasupermagnum]

The issue with most all these large vehicles is what there having to do to the engines to meet emissions requirements while having the power when needed. I've yet to see any vehicles with variable valve timing engines that don't eat their valve train in 100,000 miles! You can bet this one has that engine!

This a lie. There are very few problems with VVT engines.

[GregLaROCHE]

I once had one from the mid 70’s. It was a mainly off road truck in Alaska. By the looks of the new ones, I don’t think they can keep up with the ones from back then, when you take them off road.

[jonp]

Not seeing that price point

[jonp]

It's a Fiat.

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Wifes had 2 Fiat 500's. 150,000 miles no money except a headlight bulb. Big fan.

Wife and former girlfriend had one of those woodside things. Total tank like my 1972 Caprice Classic

[358429]

I believe the correct statement is : a properly maintained vvt-i system has few issues.

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[jonp]

Exactly! If it's not got a full pickup truck frame, pass on it!

CRV first year made and nearing 200,000. Fix everything in the driveway from struts to waterpump with ebay chinese parts and it wont die.
Your pickup AWD and come with a picnic table perfect as a shooting table?

[jonp]

Yep.

My last Jeep Wagoneer...

288033

Like a 30-06. Boring but keeps doing the job

[megasupermagnum]

I believe the correct statement is : a properly maintained vvt-i system has few issues.

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There's nothing you have to do to any variable valve timing engine that I'm aware of, that you don't have to do to a non-variable engine. Change the oil regularly, that's all you have to do to get a long life out of them. None of them are torn up at 100,000 miles. No fuel injected engine is tore up at 100,000 miles unless you did it, and you have nobody to blame but yourself. Barring the occasional mistake in production, covered under warranty of course.

[358429]

When I say maintaining the vvt-i what I mean is regular oil changes and filter, I do not mean pulling off the valve covers and adjusting or tinkering them as an example.( unless of course there is a problem) The whole thing use a lot of tight tolerances, oil flow and pressure and carrying away heat are critical to long-term operation of hydraulic tappets and cam phasers, timing chain tensioners the list could go on. Most of that stuff is self-adjusting anyways, and computer-controlled.

Yes I think we are in agreement!!! I should have been more clear before[emoji3]

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[Thundarstick]

This a lie. There are very few problems with VVT engines.

A mistake, as I was lacking in understanding and have been corrected. Thank you!