Top punches

[Stopsign32v]

So can someone educate me on this? I THINK the top punch is used to seat the bullet into the case. But if this is the case, what dies do they work in? I for one know that LEE dies aren't one of them...

[MT Gianni]

Lyman and RCBS sizing dies. They keep the bullet straight into the die as it is being sized and lubed.

[Helka]

I could be wrong but they are used when your sizing your cast boolit. Not seating boolits into case.


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[imashooter2]

There are top punches in standard seating dies and some dies even come with multiples so they can be changed to better match the bullet nose.

But what you are probably looking at is a top punch for a bullet sizing press which works as MT Gianni says.

[Bazoo]

Top punch is for pushing bullets into a lubesizer, be it Lyman, RCBS, or Saeco.

A seating die in a reloading die set has a similar item. It’s called a seating stem or seat plug.

[Stopsign32v]

I could be wrong but they are used when your sizing your cast boolit. Not seating boolits into case.


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But why wouldn't you want to size from the bottom? Seating the bullet always deforms the tip for me.

[Winger Ed.]

The seater die for your reloading press has a seating stem at the top that more or less fits the top of the bullet,
and is adjustable to establish its seating depth, and the OAL for the loaded round.

A top punch is the top die about a inch or so long that fits the top of a boolit to push it down into a sizer/lubricator press.

If the top of the (sized) boolit is deformed, or has a more than a small ring around it, you are using the wrong top punch.
For a flat top boolit, the proper top punch will have a flat bottom inside its top end, and a 'lip' that correctly fits that boolit's nose.

There is some overlap, but looking at a list of the different ones---
you'd easily think each and every boolit mold or boolit design has its own matching top punch.

Compared to some folks around here, I have less than a minimum number of them.
For just my bare necessities, I've ended up with a double handful of them.

[zarrinvz24]

The top punch is for a lubrisizer, like the Lyman 4500. Deforming the boolit while seating is mainly a product of the dies. Some dies seat using the ogive, I went from Lee to Lyman trying to solve the issue. Lymans system is to use replaceable seating stems. I didn’t like that either and now use Redding. Their seating dies seat based off the Ogive, and I haven’t had any more issues.

[Helka]

But why wouldn't you want to size from the bottom? Seating the bullet always deforms the tip for me.

I agree. I use a Lee push through so I don’t use the top punch. I wish I could use the top punch to seat it because I agree with you. My tips get deformed when seating the bullet.


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[imashooter2]

But why wouldn't you want to size from the bottom? Seating the bullet always deforms the tip for me.

A properly fit top punch doesn’t distort the nose. Most lube sizer presses work from the top. Boolit goes down, gets the lube and is lifted back out. There are a couple that will size nose first and straight through, but they are considerably more expensive. The Lee system is straight through, but doesn’t lube. You have to add film lube or pan lube after sizing.

Seating dies all work from the top as the case head gets in the way if you try to seat from the bottom. :kidding:

[Bazoo]

I do one of two things. First I try to use bullets with a common nose so I can find top punches and seating stems. Second, I modify top punches and seating stems to fit. I have a collection of both, and generally speaking, top punches are more critical because much more pressure is applied to the bullet when sizing than when seating.

You can easily get away with using a round nose seating stem for small flat nosed bullets, such as the lee 30 caliber, if you use an M die to flare your cases. The same with a flat pointed bullet that doesn’t fit a flat pointed seating stem. The M die makes a shelf that the bullet sets in and centers it enough that it don’t shave when seating.

For my 31141 in 30-30, Lyman doesn’t make a stem for their does anymore that fits flat nosed bullets. I just obtained a spare round nose stem, faced it flat, and it works perfect for both the 31141 and the lee 309-150-F

[Old Caster]

I much prefer to always size base first because when sizing the other way the bullet slides in the way it wants to and has nothing to do with being centered. When base first the nose is always centered though the bottom of the base can still move to the side. You can modify any seating punch by using something like JB weld. Clean the punch and put some epoxy into it and press it on to a bullet while centered on a lathe if possible or do it in your press after the bullet has been pushed down trying to get it as centered as possible. At least it would be easy to get it to stop putting a ring on your bullet.

[15meter]

But why wouldn't you want to size from the bottom? Seating the bullet always deforms the tip for me.


Reading this post, I'm guessing you are sizing and lubing with NO top punch in your lubrisizer.

Do a search for a manual for your flavor of lubrisizer and review installation of top punches.

May not be a bad idea to check a couple of other manuals, I took a quick look at RCBS's manual and it was as clear as mud on the actual function of the top punch and that it needs to be matched to the nose profile of the boolit you are sizing and lubing.

Just ramblings of an old guy, YMMV

[Winger Ed.]

I took a quick look at RCBS's manual and it was as clear as mud on the actual function of the top punch and that it needs to be matched to the nose profile of the boolit you are sizing and lubing.

It takes a little digging, but there are charts listing the molds by company, and they usually give the part number of the top
punch under the specs. for the mold.

[15meter]

Can you describe the equipment you are using and your technique?

I think a lot of us are guessing at what you are using and how you are doing it.

Enquiring minds want to know!

[Stopsign32v]

Can you describe the equipment you are using and your technique?

I think a lot of us are guessing at what you are using and how you are doing it.

Enquiring minds want to know!

Right now I have LEE dies and press and my goal is to get rid of the marks on the nose of the bullets. I've tried the hot glue trick and it came off after the first boolit. My next plan is to go to Lyman dies.

[Winger Ed.]

Rather than hot glue, JB weld is a favorite for making custom top punch nose sockets.

Just be sure there is a little oil on the boolit nose when ya mold it.

The fumes stink, and may be toxic, but to 'un-mold' one-- heat the JB weld.
It turns to an ash around 450 degrees F.

[Walks]

At one time Lyman made top punches And seating stems for every bullet they made.
There are charts on "Castpics" and other websites that show what punches can be substituted for which bullets.
Old Lyman catalogs show these too.
The Lyman #4 Cast Bullet Handbook also has a conversion chart in the back.
Proper fitting top punches and seating stems can also be made by filling an existing stem/punch with epoxy and setting on a bullet Coated with dried floor wax, just let it dry and remove the bullet.
Or even sealing wax for a quick short term solution.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Right now I have LEE dies and press and my goal is to get rid of the marks on the nose of the bullets. I've tried the hot glue trick and it came off after the first boolit. My next plan is to go to Lyman dies.

Mostly, my die sets are Lee, BUT, I am not a fan of the Lee seater dies for Rifle when seating cast boolits. I've replaced all my Rifle caliber Lee seating dies with Forster (or Bonanza) BR seater dies. That cured all the Runout issues I had with some boolits seated with Lee Dies...also they leave no marks.

Now, I've had some marks on pistol boolits when seated with Lee seater dies. Polishing the machining lines out of the Seater plug solved that issue (also leave a wax finish on the plug for best seating). I've heard of people making "redneck" custom seater plugs for Lee pistol dies using a cartridge case that's similarly sized to the seater plug, then fill with epoxy to form-fit to boolit's nose.

[Wm Cook]

Has anyone ever tried to JB Weld the seating stem plug of their bullet seating die. Sometimes my seating die plug rides the meta plate, sometimes down toward the olgive which I think is the round mark Stopsign is seeing on his lubsizer. It’s was real bad on my Lee C-155 7.62x39.

JB Weld on the punch with the billet lubed will cure that. Acetone the punch, put JB in the top punch cavity, lube the bullet and lightly rest the top down on the bullet. Let it set overnight. At least that’s how I do it. Bill

[15meter]

It takes a little digging, but there are charts listing the molds by company, and they usually give the part number of the top
punch under the specs. for the mold.

The charts are out there, the problem is the manual really doesn't state why you need to change nose punches to match boolit profile.

The writer assumed a user would know that.

I wrote tech manuals in a prior life and it was a difficult thing to put myself in the shoes of a newbie.

It's easy to miss basic info that makes it way easier for a beginner.

"Why everyone KNOWS that."