1911 Obsolete

[Hrfunk]

Ok fellas, take a look at this one and then let me know what you think.

Howard


https://youtu.be/C2CUJLnr9ws

[Skipper]

1911 Obsolete

http://thefirearmsforum.s3.amazonaws.com/2016/10/174668_6680f31596ed184b042088b868009118.gif

[Scrounge]

How can perfection be obsolete?

Bill

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Never!

DG

[Hickok]

HR, always enjoy your videos!

I trust my Kimber 1911,...gonna keep it!

[45DUDE]

I like it-Good clip.

[fivegunner]

Very well said, I thought you were going to trash the 1911 you said it right a person has to train with what they carry. I love the 1911 and have a few of them (10) I can run them very well and carry them some times , but as I get older they get heavy, most of the time ( and please forgive me;)) I carry a Glock 23 or 19. in a Milt Spark`s holster IWB. I also carry a S&W 640 in a Spark`s POC in my front right pocket. Again thank you for your service to our country and for your concise accurate to the point videos

[Bigslug]

I think you guys who argue "Glock vs 1911" until you're blue in the face, or don't want to allow one or the other in the same room the one you prefer are kinda cute.

I break centerfire handguns down into four groups:

1. 1911's
2. Glocks
3. Revolvers
4. Those that are not worth my time

The 1911 and Glock are the most easily armorer/end-user serviced pistols on earth. Anything else is usually a train wreck of complex double action clockworks or one-time-use roll pins. A GI-spec 1911 is it's own disassembly tool kit, to the point where you only need a screwdriver for the grips. A Glock needs a punch, and a flat-bladed screwdrivery thing plus a pair of needle nosed pliers IF you need to take the mag catch out. About the only specialty tool one might regularly need on either is the gizmo to restake a 1911's plunger tube - and only if it wasn't done right the first time.

The "modern" DA/SA handguns of the 1980's were a mechanical answer to what was really a (lack of) training problem, and they brought plenty of other training-related and mechanical problems to the party. . .which is why the 1911 and Glock have outlasted them, and the 1911 mechanism (in various forms) has had a resurgence.

The 1911 (with its grip safety) and Glock (with its trigger safety) both turn off when you let go of them. A great many autoloaders do not.

The 1911 is pretty much unique in that it has about the only trigger mechanism that is ergonomically correct to the human hand. It slides straight to the rear with your finger where EVERYTHING else pivots up and back.

The ammo capacity issue does come up a lot, but the counter-argument (regardless of caliber) is the flatness and ease of carry of a single-stack gun. While the "stack-and-a-half" guns like the Sig P365 and Glock 43X/48 (especially with Shield Arm's 15 round mags) are a bit of a game changer, they don't eliminate the fact that 7-10 rounds can solve a lot of problems. Another unpleasant bit of reality for those that would call the 1911 obsolete is that double stack guns are too big for many (perhaps even a majority of) shooter's hands. The Luger, 1911, and K-fame S&W were all designed for one-handed use and they all fit even a large human hand much better than just about anything that staggers it's ammo in two columns. Six you can deliver accurately while one hand is otherwise occupied versus 20 you need both hands in order to control the delivery of???? Also worth discussing is the degree to which ammo capacity is a REAL advantage over a PSYCHOLOGICAL one - again let's talk about systems you can HIT with.

The biggest strike against the 1911 then is probably cost of manufacture, but I would argue that it persists because it still manages to be a better overall system than anything else out there besides possibly Glock. If arguing between the two, the 1911 is probably more fixable in the boonies if you had to make your own parts - - but you have to understand how it works. With the Glock, you need spare parts, but you can just swap them out until your problem goes away. Flip a coin.

What I REALLY wish the 1911 manufacturers would do is start applying the modern bombproof finishes like tenifer, melonite, and DLC to the platform. We're still getting them blued, painted, and Parkerized - we can do better.

[dverna]

There is one ideal carry gun...the one that works for you!!!

[Win94ae]

Yes, my S&W 1911 Pro Series enhanced grip safety will not fully engage with my preferred grip, whereas my Remington 1911 R1S with the normal lever, works just fine.

[Winger Ed.]

There's lots of alternatives out there that are well received.
Heck, I've even got a Tupperware .45 myself.

But the 1911 is about as obsolete as a Iron, small block V8, that runs on gasoline.

[DougGuy]

What the hell.. *I* am obsolete!! LOL.... I grow more obsolete-r every day! My 1911s don't seem to be aging a bit! :bigsmyl2:

[Finster101]

"I think you guys who argue "Glock vs 1911" until you're blue in the face, or don't want to allow one or the other in the same room the one you prefer are kinda cute.

I break centerfire handguns down into four groups:

1. 1911's
2. Glocks
3. Revolvers
4. Those that are not worth my time "


I have several striker fired pistols. None are Glocks. I don't bash Glocks, they work but they do not fit me. I do however continue to be as amused by the Glock fan boys almost as much as Lee bashers and Dillon koolaid drinkers. I'm not throwing shade at any of these products, the only one I don't have is a Glock, the fanaticism is the same though.

[echo154]

I am a true 1911 lover. I have 4...all custom, but I also have a G43 and a M629 mountain gun in SS. I look at it this way. These are tools, buy the best you can afford and stay with the best you can shoot. For me, my 1911 commander from Nighthawk (TI) frame is my best. That being said I also carry my G43 for it's ability to conceal in hot weather. I carry the M629 in areas wear bigger predators lurk or for hunting....OK OK....I also have a Colt Model P and an HK USP Tactical in my safe.
Basically find your gun that you shoot best and carry comfortably......I'd rather have a derringer available than a .500 SW in my truck!

[John Crusher]

Yea, right.
Bull Squat.

[badguybuster]

1911 is the safest carry gun available and still the best

[Gtek]

Women accessorize with the choices of many purses and shoes. I accessorize with several different platform designs of the handgun, something about those 1911's still just feels right.

[Finster101]

I have been in love with the 1911 since 1979 when I qualified expert with it and maintained that during my enlistment. My best score was a 40 for 40 and worst was 38 for 40. I could not do that now with shakey hands and poorer eye sight. Damn, I'm starting to sound like a country song.

[Skipper]

I have a cop friend that likes to say " the 1911 is like a Glock....but for men "

:p

[pworley1]

When all else fails you can depend on the 1911.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Does obsolete mean it won't kill you if you get shot with one ? All these years I have been carrying a pistol that won't save me from bad things?? They do seem to work well.

[Battis]

I smell a conspiracy. If you subtract the time on the broken clock on his wall (10:16) from 1911, you get 895, which is approx the velocity of a .45 ACP.
Plus, his work area is way too organized.
What's going on here?

ah, you know I'm kidding, right?
Good video.

[Rodfac]

Great post HR...I NEVER fail to watch your videos...thanks again for the good work. Rod

[Newboy]

It's ironic.

Most of the time I see a malfunction at an IDPA match, it is a 1911.

Even more ironic, their first words are, "it's never done that before!"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[knifemaker]

The photo below is my IDPA match gun. With over 2,000 rounds fired it has never had a failure. The target is 8 rounds of Federal Gold Match 185 gr. ammo fired from a Ransom rest at 25 yards. You can cover the single hole with a 5 cent nickel. With that reliability and accuracy, i do not think a John Browning designed 1911 is obsolete even after 100 years.287942

The Colt 1911 National Match was my duty gun for 15 years on patrol and detective work. That group was 8 rounds of my duty load consisting of 185 gr. HP +P ammo. Fired over sandbags at 25 yards. I can only recall one failure to feed in the years I carried it and that was due to a poor reloaded round that had shaved lead at the case mouth and prevented it from fully going into the tight match chamber.

[bimus]

There are company's and even small shops that is all they make or work on and even the big company's that jumped on the 1911 wagon to get in on the market .

[M-Tecs]

Per a couple of Dictionaries obsolete is not a term that is remotely close to being appropriate for the 1911.

no longer produced or used; out of date

no longer in use or no longer useful

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/list-of-1911-manufacturers-current-and-former.280059/

I'm attempting to list all current and former 1911 manufacturers. It may not even be possible to create a complete and accurate list, given all the variations and cross-branding. However if anyone can think of one that I missed, please add it to this thread and I'll update the main list when possible. I'm confining this to volume manufacturers and leaving out the small "one-man" shops, not because they're not legitimate 1911 makers but because if they were included we'd probably have at least a couple thousand different manufacturers!

The biggest problem with compiling a list like this is determining how to even precisely define a 1911 pistol, given the sheer number of variations produced over the years with numerous design changes. In the end I had to choose to apply my own definition, which hopefully the majority of you will agree with. It must be based off the original John Browning/Colt design and share a substantial number of interchangeable parts (primarily the slide, frame and barrel), with "interchangeable" allowing for the obvious fact that many new pistols will include modern upgrades (such as beavertail grip safeties and improved sights) that would not fit on an original US military 1911. But I left a manufacturer off the list if their guns strayed too far from the original design. For example, to me the Colt Series 80 would still be considered a 1911 despite incorporating a firing pin safety system, but the Mexican Obregon would not as the slide, barrel, and many other parts are completely different, even though the lower half is similar and may even share magazines or other small parts with a standard 1911. Of course the same logic could be applied to a double-stack pistol like some Para Ordnance models or any of the new breed of .22 caliber 1911 look-alikes. In the end I had to make decisions on where to draw the line.

A&R Sales
Accuracy X
A.J. Savage (US gov't contract 1919, made slides only)
Alchemy Custom Weaponry
American Classic
American Tactical
AMT
Armi Dallera Custom (ADC)
Armscor
Arsenal Firearms (maker of a unique double-barreled 1911)
Astra
ATI
Australian Precision Arms
Auto Ordnance
Briley
Brixia
Brolin Arms
Brownells
Browning (reduced-size .22 and .380 copies)
Bunker Arms
Cabot
Carolina Arms
Caspian (slides and frames only)
Charles Daly
Christensen Arms
Cimarron
Citadel
CO Arms
Colt (commercial and US/foreign gov't contract from 1911 to present day)
Coonan (loose copy of the 1911 mostly chambered in .357 Magnum)
Cosaint Arms
Chiappa (.22LR 1911 copy)
Crown City
Cylinder & Slide
CZ USA
Dan Wesson
Detonics
Devel
Devil Dog Arms
Dlask Arms
D&L Sports
Double Star
Ed Brown
EMF
Essex (slides and frames only)
Federal Ordnance
Falcon
Firestorm
Freedom Arms
Fusion Firearms
Gemini Custom
Girsan
Griffon Combat
GSG (.22LR 1911 copy)
Guncrafter Industries
Gunsite
Hero Guns
High Standard
Imbel
Imperial Defense
Infinity
Inland Manufacturing
Interstate Arms (Regent)
Interarms
Irwindale Arms Industries (IAI)
Israeli Arms Industries (also called IAI)
Ithaca (new business located in Sandusky, OH)
Ithaca (old NY-based company, made pistols under US gov't contract 1943-1945)
Iver Johnson
Karl Lippard
Kimber
Kongsberg (M/1914 pistol manufactured in Norway under Colt license)
Korth Arms
LAR
Les Baer
Llama (Spanish manufacturer making loose copies of the 1911)
Lone Star
Magnum Research (Bul)
Maximus Custom
Metro Arms
Michigan Armament
Mitchell
MP Express
National Ordnance
Nighthawk
Norinco
North American Arms Co. Ltd. (US gov't contract in 1918, ~100 pistols assembled but not delivered)
Nowlin
Palmetto State Armory
Para Ordnance/Para USA
Pistol Dynamics
Olympic Arms
Omega Defense
Oriskany Arms
Peter Stahl
Randall
Ranger
Reeder Custom
Regent
Remington Arms (current business)
Remington Rand (made pistols under US gov't contract 1942-1945, not affiliated with Remington Arms or Remington-UMC)
Remington-UMC (US gov't contract 1918-1919) NOTE: ~1000 replicas were made by Remington Arms and Turnbull in 2014)
Republic Forge
Roberts Defense
Rock Island Armory
Rock River Arms
Ruger
Safari Arms
S.A.M
Salient Arms
Sarco
Schroeder Bauman
Shooters Arms (Philippines)
Sig Sauer
Singer (US gov't contract, 500 pistols produced in 1941)
Sistema (aka D.G.F.M.-F.M.A.P.) (M1927 pistol manufactured in Argentina under Colt license)
Smith & Wesson
South Fork Arms/Perkins Custom
Springfield Armory (former military arsenal in MA, made M1911s from 1914-1917 under US gov't contract)
Springfield Armory (commercial business established in 1974, not associated with above)
Standard Manufacturing
Star (Spanish manufacturer making loose copies of the 1911)
STI/Staccato
SVI/Strayer Voigt
Tanfoglio
Taurus
Taylor & Co.
TİSAŞ
TRIARC Systems
Turnbull Mfg.
Ultimate Arms
Unertl
Union Switch & Signal (US gov't contract, 1943)
Uselton/Ultimate Arms
USFA
Walther/Umarex (.22LR 1911 copy)
Wilson Combat
Vega (frames only)
Valtro
Victory Arms
Volkman

[Walks]

Didn't Jeff Cooper say "the double-action auto is an engenious solution to a non existent problem"
Colt SAA above all, then;
1911.
Glock 2nd,
I like High Powers too.

[Uncle Grinch]

Like Trump said….. “Fake News”

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Great range guns, like a 686. But too heavy for me to carry comfortably. I would choose a Glock 19 every time.

[fivegunner]

I think you guys who argue "Glock vs 1911" until you're blue in the face, or don't want to allow one or the other in the same room the one you prefer are kinda cute.

I break centerfire handguns down into four groups:

1. 1911's
2. Glocks
3. Revolvers
4. Those that are not worth my time

The 1911 and Glock are the most easily armorer/end-user serviced pistols on earth. Anything else is usually a train wreck of complex double action clockworks or one-time-use roll pins. A GI-spec 1911 is it's own disassembly tool kit, to the point where you only need a screwdriver for the grips. A Glock needs a punch, and a flat-bladed screwdrivery thing plus a pair of needle nosed pliers IF you need to take the mag catch out. About the only specialty tool one might regularly need on either is the gizmo to restake a 1911's plunger tube - and only if it wasn't done right the first time.

The "modern" DA/SA handguns of the 1980's were a mechanical answer to what was really a (lack of) training problem, and they brought plenty of other training-related and mechanical problems to the party. . .which is why the 1911 and Glock have outlasted them, and the 1911 mechanism (in various forms) has had a resurgence.

The 1911 (with its grip safety) and Glock (with its trigger safety) both turn off when you let go of them. A great many autoloaders do not.

The 1911 is pretty much unique in that it has about the only trigger mechanism that is ergonomically correct to the human hand. It slides straight to the rear with your finger where EVERYTHING else pivots up and back.

The ammo capacity issue does come up a lot, but the counter-argument (regardless of caliber) is the flatness and ease of carry of a single-stack gun. While the "stack-and-a-half" guns like the Sig P365 and Glock 43X/48 (especially with Shield Arm's 15 round mags) are a bit of a game changer, they don't eliminate the fact that 7-10 rounds can solve a lot of problems. Another unpleasant bit of reality for those that would call the 1911 obsolete is that double stack guns are too big for many (perhaps even a majority of) shooter's hands. The Luger, 1911, and K-fame S&W were all designed for one-handed use and they all fit even a large human hand much better than just about anything that staggers it's ammo in two columns. Six you can deliver accurately while one hand is otherwise occupied versus 20 you need both hands in order to control the delivery of???? Also worth discussing is the degree to which ammo capacity is a REAL advantage over a PSYCHOLOGICAL one - again let's talk about systems you can HIT with.

The biggest strike against the 1911 then is probably cost of manufacture, but I would argue that it persists because it still manages to be a better overall system than anything else out there besides possibly Glock. If arguing between the two, the 1911 is probably more fixable in the boonies if you had to make your own parts - - but you have to understand how it works. With the Glock, you need spare parts, but you can just swap them out until your problem goes away. Flip a coin.

What I REALLY wish the 1911 manufacturers would do is start applying the modern bombproof finishes like tenifer, melonite, and DLC to the platform. We're still getting them blued, painted, and Parkerized - we can do better.

Yes Sir, Great post !

[Shepherd2]

A great video. I enjoyed it and agree with it. I've been a 1911 fan since my pre teen years. I shot a Kimber in IDPA for years back when they were really common in that game.

I bought my first 1911 50+ years ago and right now I hoping my LGS will call soon and tell me my Dan Wesson is in.

[Burnt Fingers]

Great range guns, like a 686. But too heavy for me to carry comfortably. I would choose a Glock 19 every time.

Gee...eat some meat.

I've got chronic severe back problems and I manage to carry a LW Commander 1911.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Didn't Jeff Cooper say "the double-action auto is an engenious solution to a non existent problem"
Colt SAA above all, then;
1911.
Glock 2nd,
I like High Powers too.

I like the above , but would also add in the Sringfield xdm , anyway 1911 is not obsolete , do not drink kool aid but do like Dillon and have quite a few Lee reloading and casting stuff , Fanaticism No but appreciate a good design and functioning weapon .

[Tazman1602]

BAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! That’s laughable…..45 ACP, because shooting twice is silly…

[17nut]

My Kongsberg M1912 had a little tiff the other year ;-)
I think it was due to bullet setback, but well newer know for sure.

https://i.imgur.com/dgqTgs7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/leAvvDe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jwTUUHb.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GSpJwzs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9dqUvTi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/s2i1xwq.jpg

A new barrel and a hammer to stragihten the slide and it has done more than 2000+ rounds since then

[jonp]

1) Obsolete? Your on the wrong forum for that type of talk

2) Your clock is broken

3) How is your new job going Mr. Funk?

4) great video as always

[Char-Gar]

It was a very good, truthful and balanced look at the subject. I got started with the 1911 (Rem-Ran 1911A1) in 1961, therefore I was dedicated to it before anything "more modern" came along. I have owned other autopistols, but they are just fun guns. It would take me decades to have the same experience and comfort level with any other design, so why do it? When a pistol has worked it's way into your brain, muscles and bones, then stick with it.

The only things about the video I would differ with, is for me, the P.08 Luger is the best pointing pistol around.

[jonp]

Gee...eat some meat.

I've got chronic severe back problems and I manage to carry a LW Commander 1911.

Guess I need some meat, too. Love my 1911's but we carry SW Shields

[echo154]

The debate over which gun is the best will last until the last two gunfighters........Don' live by the gun....Live With the gun.

[M-Tecs]

I am surprised but the narrow focus of this discussion. It's most appears to be based on carry guns. That is more than a little myopic. Yes the 1911 is large and heavy. That also makes it idea for other applications like hunting, target and actual combat usage.

My daily carry is a 9mm Sig 365XL. With 12 rounds and a red dot in a very small light package that is relatively accurate it is a good match for my threat level. That being said if I knowingly am going into a handgun fight I want my 1911's. I would prefer my double stack 1911's but my single stack would be fine also.

[BunkTheory]

Also dont forget that the media outlets claiming that the 1911 and revolver are obsolete and need to be tosseds are also the ones.

advocating for

10 ounce revolvers chambered in .357 magnum and to use the treasury loads... that most dont like to use in an L frame...

15 ounce semi automatics chambered in 9mm and 40 sw

20 ounce snubs chambered in 44 magnum and 454 casull

[Bigslug]

Of course, if they're declared obsolete antiques, maybe we can start treating them like black powder guns and transfer them cash & carry with no FFL nonsense.

YES! ABSOLUTELY! 1911'S AND REVOLVERS ARE OBSOLETE! IN FACT, THEY ARE PRACTICALLY STONE AGE!

[Hrfunk]

I smell a conspiracy. If you subtract the time on the broken clock on his wall (10:16) from 1911, you get 895, which is approx the velocity of a .45 ACP.
Plus, his work area is way too organized.
What's going on here?

ah, you know I'm kidding, right?
Good video.

Doh! You broke the code! Now I’ve got to come up with a new subliminal brainwashing technique!

Howard

[Hrfunk]

1) Obsolete? Your on the wrong forum for that type of talk

2) Your clock is broken

3) How is your new job going Mr. Funk?

4) great video as always

Ha, ha!

1. I’m wrong in many other ways too.

2. The clock is fine except for the fact that I removed the battery because I thought the ticking sound in my videos was distracting.

3. New job is going well.

4. Thank you!

Howard

[Daekar]

I like 1911s but would rather carry a Ruger Redhawk with 8 rounds of 357mag on tap if I'm going to commit to something big and heavy.

I actually got rid of my full sized pistols though, except for a Ruger MKIII Hunter and an Encore with a 12" barrel, I found that I just have to have a compact gun to actually carry the thing, even in the woods here on the east coast.

[Laguna Freak]

I carry my Les Baer 1911 every day in the not Summer season. She has some pretty gnarly combat grips that require fabric between them and my belly. The Baer lives up to its accuracy guarantee and it has never jammed, even during break-in. I carry 2 spare mags. I figure if I need more than 24 rounds of 230 acp HP’s, I got really big problems. Would not trade my Baer 1911 for any other handgun. I carry a Walther PPQ .40 S&W in Summer.

[Battis]

I have a Colt 1903 Hammer in .38 ACP that has no safety, no slide release, and even has a barrel wedge (as in the old Colt cap and ball revolvers). It's the father of the 1911 with all of its fancy dodads. That 1903 is obsolete (still a beautiful gun, great shooter, and the ammo can be fired in an Astra 400). The 1911 is a futuristic sci-fi ray gun compared to the 1903. Lately I've been fantasizing about what I'll do when the crap hits the windmill (funny how fantasies change as we age - I miss Farrah Fawcett's poster on my wall), and what gun I'll grab - in my mind, it's always the 1911 .45 acp or my Ruger .357.

[Hrfunk]

Ok, I have to say it. When you follow a parenthetical reference to Farrah’s poster with wondering what “gun” you’ll grab, I get a disturbing mental image.;-)

Howard

[Battis]

Definition of parenthesis: "a remark or passage that departs from the theme of a discourse : DIGRESSION."

Yeah, I digressed. But I still miss that poster.

[Hrfunk]

Ha, ha! I miss it too. It’s one of many things I miss about the country I grew up in.

Howard

[fatelk]

I think that the fact that there's even a discussion whether it's obsolete or not is amazing testimony to the design. That, and the fact that they're still so widely used.

It is a little irritating to hear some of the younger "tactical" crowd badmouth the 1911, and any older guns in general. I remember one guy telling me "revolvers are stupid". In his opinion, revolvers were as outmoded as flintlocks, and he couldn't understand why any serious shooter would own one, when you could have a Glock instead. Whatever.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well outdated or no longer tacticool I still use and carry mine , but then I carry and use a flintlock at times , and a single action revolver Uberti in of all things 45 colt .

But I do have Glocks to , lately the Sharps and 1873 rifles have been high on my list and finding the way into spare spaces , but I always keep a eye out for another 1911 .

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I am surprised but the narrow focus of this discussion. It's most appears to be based on carry guns. That is more than a little myopic. Yes the 1911 is large and heavy. That also makes it idea for other applications like hunting, target and actual combat usage.

My daily carry is a 9mm Sig 365XL. With 12 rounds and a red dot in a very small light package that is relatively accurate it is a good match for my threat level. That being said if I knowingly am going into a handgun fight I want my 1911's. I would prefer my double stack 1911's but my single stack would be fine also.

If I'm knowingly going into a handgun fight I would bring my 870 pump. Really though, in the 21st century the 1911 is a range gun.

[Daekar]

I think that the fact that there's even a discussion whether it's obsolete or not is amazing testimony to the design. That, and the fact that they're still so widely used.

It is a little irritating to hear some of the younger "tactical" crowd badmouth the 1911, and any older guns in general. I remember one guy telling me "revolvers are stupid". In his opinion, revolvers were as outmoded as flintlocks, and he couldn't understand why any serious shooter would own one, when you could have a Glock instead. Whatever.

Ha! Show me a person that doesn't appreciate revolvers and I'll show you someone who doesn't reload. Like hell am I searching in the grass for all my brass, lol. Would I like to have more than 5 shots in my J-frame? Well yes, yes I would. But I carried a single-stack .380 for years with a 6-shot magazine, and those cartridges were less powerful. Maybe I should ask people if I can shoot them to test the 22LR bullets out of my S&W model 63, they're so weak that surely even all 8 shots won't hurt them...

Poor whippersnappers don't know what they're missing.

[Texas by God]

M-Tecs, thanks for that list of 1911 manufacturers but I don't think Astra belongs there. I could be wrong( and often am) but Astra never dipped its toe in the 1911 pool. But they made good pistols of other designs, for sure.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[FLINTNFIRE]

No there was a 1911 made by Astra , google it up . Or here is a link https://primarmi.it/en/product/astra-arms-pistol-1911-a1-u-s-model/

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Ha! Show me a person that doesn't appreciate revolvers and I'll show you someone who doesn't reload. Like hell am I searching in the grass for all my brass, lol. Would I like to have more than 5 shots in my J-frame? Well yes, yes I would. But I carried a single-stack .380 for years with a 6-shot magazine, and those cartridges were less powerful. Maybe I should ask people if I can shoot them to test the 22LR bullets out of my S&W model 63, they're so weak that surely even all 8 shots won't hurt them...

Poor whippersnappers don't know what they're missing.

Yep, revolvers are my favorite. Have two Rugers and four Smiths. Taking a 686+, a 3" model 60 and a 5" 27 out today to try a new conventional lubed 158 gr. boolit. Loaded over 7.5 gr. HS 6. The 60 needs a .358" boolit and the other two use a .357". The model 60 in a shoulder holster is my most carried piece. A Glock 36 after that. In the woods it is the 27. In the car I bag a high cap 9 too.

[Daekar]

I have to say, I really love my Model 60 with a 3" barrel. It's so easy to carry but the long sight takes helps it shoot like a real gun.

[downzero]

I carry my Les Baer 1911 every day in the not Summer season. She has some pretty gnarly combat grips that require fabric between them and my belly. The Baer lives up to its accuracy guarantee and it has never jammed, even during break-in. I carry 2 spare mags. I figure if I need more than 24 rounds of 230 acp HP’s, I got really big problems. Would not trade my Baer 1911 for any other handgun. I carry a Walther PPQ .40 S&W in Summer.


That's pretty incredible. In 10 years of being a range officer, I've never seen even a single Les Baer make it through a match without a jam. Everyone tells me about these magical reliable Les Baers, but I've never seen one.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

That's pretty incredible. In 10 years of being a range officer, I've never seen even a single Les Baer make it through a match without a jam. Everyone tells me about these magical reliable Les Baers, but I've never seen one.

I had a premier II and it was perfectly reliable. But the darn front serations were so sharp it was chewing up my holster. I sold it and started using a Glock 34 which I immediately did well with.

[fatelk]

I have a question, and I ask it as a long-time 1911 fan. It's about my own preconceived notions about reliability. I'm by no means an expert, as I've really only shot a handful of 1911s over the decades, and only owned a few of my own. I've tinkered over the years off and on with making my own guns reliable and accurate, and read untold articles about gunsmithing to make 1911s feed and function better.

So, my assumption is that as good as the 1911 is, they can be made to be very reliable, but most more modern guns like Glocks typically come off the assembly line quite reliable already. As much as we all like the venerable 1911, more modern designs are "better" from a purely practical standpoint, in regards to reliability and durability. I say this as a die-hard 1911 fan. Am I wrong?

[Shawlerbrook]

This reminds me of the idiots that said the 30 30 is also obsolete. [smilie=b:

[M-Tecs]

I have a question, and I ask it as a long-time 1911 fan. It's about my own preconceived notions about reliability. I'm by no means an expert, as I've really only shot a handful of 1911s over the decades, and only owned a few of my own. I've tinkered over the years off and on with making my own guns reliable and accurate, and read untold articles about gunsmithing to make 1911s feed and function better.

So, my assumption is that as good as the 1911 is, they can be made to be very reliable, but most more modern guns like Glocks typically come off the assembly line quite reliable already. As much as we all like the venerable 1911, more modern designs are "better" from a purely practical standpoint, in regards to reliability and durability. I say this as a die-hard 1911 fan. Am I wrong?

I have had the pleasure of shooting some 1914 thru 1920 1911's that were in excellent conditions and appeared to have never been reworked. They functioned 100% with GI ball. On the other end of the spectrum I have fired worn out Army issues 1911's that were 50K or 100K past their prime. They were jam-o-matics. Same for a lot of the home built parts guns common in the 60's - 90's. Even the 70 Colts had issues. That was not a design problem. That was a 100% a tolerancing problem.

You do see some of the same issues with some of the Glock after market parts.

For SOME application the 1911's are still state of the art. The CZ 75 may be arguably equal or superior for some of the race gun application.

When the competitors have to pay for there own equipment the 1911 still is top of the list. Are other designs superior for some applicates. Yes, however, very few (if any) of the current designs will do as many things as well as the 1911's does across the board.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I have shot many thousands of 200 gr. swc reloads through a couple 1911's and they never let me down in matches. I did find that I could draw faster with the Glock 34 because it was not as heavy. I don't think the 1911 is obsolete. But I prefer a high cap polymer 9mm for a battle gun, not that I'll ever use one that way hopefully.

[Bigslug]

I have a question, and I ask it as a long-time 1911 fan. It's about my own preconceived notions about reliability. I'm by no means an expert, as I've really only shot a handful of 1911s over the decades, and only owned a few of my own. I've tinkered over the years off and on with making my own guns reliable and accurate, and read untold articles about gunsmithing to make 1911s feed and function better.

So, my assumption is that as good as the 1911 is, they can be made to be very reliable, but most more modern guns like Glocks typically come off the assembly line quite reliable already. As much as we all like the venerable 1911, more modern designs are "better" from a purely practical standpoint, in regards to reliability and durability. I say this as a die-hard 1911 fan. Am I wrong?

One of the 1911's major assets - it can be built up as a target gun - is also it's greatest curse. There has been so much messing with it's tolerances, spring rates, and magazines over the years to make it perform this way or that, that the lines have become blurred as to what belongs on the "combat gun" and what doesn't.

Perhaps the only nod to modernity that Browning's basic mechanical blueprint needs is the very slight widening of the feed ramp commonly seen to accommodate hollow points - but then again, I've made a basic GI gun run reliably - if somewhat roughly - with Elmer Keith's barrel-shaped 453432, AND it ran best on them with GI-style, tapering feed lip magazines. Really, if I've learned one thing about the design over the years, it's that you alter John's specs at your peril. Don't build it cheap, build it right, and bring an operator with a little understanding of what's going on inside, and it'll run as well or better than most.

(Much the same can be said of the Glock and the AR-15 - both of which having been successful enough and around long enough to have a plethora of aftermarket gadgets available for them, or Brand X clones. If someone brings me one that isn't working, I go straight to looking for aftermarket gadgets, or manufacture/assembly by the clueless, and very often find them)

[Texas by God]

Along with what Shawlerbrook said. If I'm armed with a Winchester 94 30-30 and a 1911 .45 ACP- I would be confident that I could solve most problems that guns can solve.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[country gent]

Something to consider, When the machine vendors came in the shop, Every saw they had was just as good as a doall. But I never heard the Doall vendors say just as good as them.

The 1911 is accurate easy to learn shoots easy and in some calibers light recoil. Set up by a competent smith they can be amazingly accurate.

[M-Tecs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPC0mmKlBrE

[AndyC]

I have a cop friend that likes to say " the 1911 is like a Glock....but for men "

:p
I lay claim to have invented that saying back in 2014 after a friendly argument with a friend, and I made a quick meme to rub it in:

https://i.imgur.com/NKjoUtW.png

I later did another one to counter accusations that the 1911 is a jamammatic, which traveled a bit:

https://i.imgur.com/S19EwEQ.jpg

[Old Caster]

Everything today is a ruse to get people to divide. Don't fall for it in any venue.

[shdwlkr]

first centerfire pistol I ever shot was a colt 1911 US Army issue in 1970 and was totally impressed with the pistol and what it could do. If it didn't rattle like a bunch of marbles in a tin can it worked just fine.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm smart enough to not wade into the 1911 debate. I have one, and it is a range toy. I love shooting it.

That said, love HRFunk's videos. I am very jealous as his delivery is clear, concise, and polished. His videos are well edited and easy to watch with lots of great info and perspective. As someone who is playing around with making my own videos, I can appreciate just how great of a job he is doing.

My videos look like your drunk uncle who still drives a Town Car and is on the verge of a heart attack that has had a six pack and decided to video himself shooting. HR's videos are wonderful.

[fastdadio]

I was invited up to deer camp by a friend of a friend. A group of guys I didn't really know well. I'm a social guy and like to meet new people and they had a nice cabin in a good location. So I thought, why not? Well, I found myself surround by a group of guys best described as "Fudds" If you know what I mean. I had a 1911 with me and the subject quickly went to it being obsolete. Too heavy, too slow, and the wonder 9 shoots twice as fast and is better in every way blah, blah, blah.
The camp firearms expert continued to dwell on the .45 being too big and slow to be effective and was one step up from throwing rocks.... To the edge of irritating me. After trying to explain the design parameters of this particular combat handgun, and it's long history of successful service, only to fall on deaf ears.
I finally said "OK, tell you what. if you think it's so slow, let's go out to the meadow, and you stand out about 75 yards, which is about 3 times farther than I said it was deigned for. I'll shoot at you, and when to see the puff of smoke, or hear the report, DUCK!. He declined my offer with the doe in the headlights look. (Not that I would have really gone through with the challenge), I used my best Poker face, and it ended the discussion for the rest of the weekend. There were however, other gun related discussions that took place that just made me want to roll my eyes over and I kept my opinions to myself.
I never hunted with those guys again.

[BigAlofPa.]

Excellent video.

[gwpercle]

I got a Stainless Steel 1911 AMT Hardballer sitting next to me right now ...
Perfect for the heat, humidity , hurricanes and power outages we are experiences in Louisiana right now .
No one steals your generator or gas when looking down the 45 cal. barrel of a 1911 ...
... a 1911 , a few spare magazines and a can of Spam ... Who could ask for anything more !
Gary

[Kevin Rohrer]

I own sixteen of them. Sold all my craptastic plastic stuff as it is all junk compared to a 1911. Been carrying a 1911 for a living since the age of 19, and now at age-66, still depend on them.

My latest duty gun, a Nighthawk TRS in God's Caliber.

288426

[Buck Shot]

So, my assumption is that as good as the 1911 is, they can be made to be very reliable, but most more modern guns like Glocks typically come off the assembly line quite reliable already. As much as we all like the venerable 1911, more modern designs are "better" from a purely practical standpoint, in regards to reliability and durability. I say this as a die-hard 1911 fan. Am I wrong?

I've only fired it maybe 750 times so far, but my SA 1911 (the forged Brazilian SS "Mil-Spec" model) hasn't missed a beat. So far, it's batting a thousand straight out of the box.

[danmat]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]288434[/AT
My newest this was 3rd and 4th mags thru the gun, only have about 250 rnds thru it.
Had 1 stovepipe on 2nd round thru the gun, it was a light bullseye load. None since.
I could not work the slide when new it was so tight.
About the best my old eyes with cheaters can do.

I liked your videos 45guy lot of effort to make one.

[Jtarm]

I’d call the 1911 an Expert Gun. It is not for the inexperienced or shooters who won’t put in the time with it. It will never be obsolete.

I disagree that DA/SA autos are bad or obsolete. They may be the safest handgun there is. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re for idiots.

I carry a medium-frame revolver AIWB (living in TX, that’s about the only feasible concealed option.). Whenever I think about switching to a bottom feeder, DA/SA is the only gun I would consider. Even though I own and like 1911s and Glocks, there is no way in hell I’d carry one pointed at my groin.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well its your groin , but it does not hate your gonads so doubt it wants to blow them off , pretty safe pistol really , it is the fact that you see it cocked and locked where others are cocked also but you do not see it , your revolver is ready to just needs enough pressure to pop a cork so to speak .

[JohnH]

What the hell.. *I* am obsolete!! LOL.... I grow more obsolete-r every day! My 1911s don't seem to be aging a bit! :bigsmyl2:

After a discussion I was in on a board elsewhere on the net, I'm not obsolete, I'm antiquated

[fn1889m]

I don’t think I understood the 1911 until I built a couple. My first was a mess. The second is very reliable. After that, I understood how they worked, which matters more with 1911s than Glocks. They are a design that begs for hands on involvement, unlike a Glock or CZ. They are more of a 1972 straight six Chevy pickup than this year’s Honda SUV. Some people see that as a good thing, and some don’t. I can maintain my 1911s. And I appreciate their role in history. I seldom carry, but when I do, I carry a 1911.

My friend likes loud women of accentuated stature. I appreciate a thoughtful woman with a more subtle figure. I am not going to say he is wrong. I don’t criticize his girlfriends. But I think mine are nicer….

[Idaho45guy]

I don’t think I understood the 1911 until I built a couple. My first was a mess. The second is very reliable. After that, I understood how they worked, which matters more with 1911s than Glocks. They are a design that begs for hands on involvement, unlike a Glock or CZ. They are more of a 1972 straight six Chevy pickup than this year’s Honda SUV. Some people see that as a good thing, and some don’t.

If you've built one, then you should know that they are closer to the new Honda SUV in terms of complexity, than the more simple Chevy straight six; the Glock.

The typical 1911 has 41 parts...

289252

The Glock has 34 parts...

289253

I have carried or owned Glocks since 1998. So I was used to their crappy triggers. I also learned that improving them greatly took about a half hour, some metal polish, and a couple of Q-Tips.

When I bought my first 1911, I was surprised by it's 5.5 lb trigger that was a bit gritty. I went online to see how to lighten and improve it, and found out it is a very complex process requiring a high level of competence and experience. The changing of just about any part on the 1911 requires custom fitting and gunsmithing skills, and even then, it may not work correctly.

Comparing the 1911 to a simple and easy to work on engine from the `70's and the Glock to a new and complex SUV is the exact opposite of reality.

[FLINTNFIRE]

It may be true that glocks are drop in ready and 1911 do take fitting but it is not that big a issue for the mechanical inclined and those who have the ability , I do not own all the jigs and tools but have had my 1911's apart to bare frame to repair or replace parts as needed , and the tools are out there for those who wish to buy them and do the more detailed work .

Came home to find my nephew had borrowed a 1911 and obviously had shot a high pressure event most likely due to a squib , though his explanation of why he was entitled to use my firearm without permission and obvious lack of proper grasp of if it does not sound right do not fire till after checking it out .

Never got the full story of what transpired , but the frame needed some attention , and the slide and barrel were toast , so new barrel and link and fit and new slide replace pieces and good to go , one thing I think every 1911 thread needs is the warning do not load single rounds without them coming out of the magazine , have seen enough issues caused by bad extractors from people who should know better loading single rounds .

It may be a old design , but it is tried and true and still a great design .

[Idaho45guy]

It may be a old design , but it is tried and true and still a great design .

But you preceded that statement with an example of how the design failed and required special care and handling. Not exactly a testimony to "tried and true"...

The Glock design is clearly superior to the 1911 in nearly every single category when it comes to self-defense and combat.

I love my 1911, but to think that it is a better self-defense weapon platform is just nonsensical and borders on the delusional.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Oh I beg to differ your glock would have been a total failure , sorry plastic may be easy to manufacture but it does not take sudden pressure well when it goes boom it is the famous Glock Kaboom , so it is a tried and true design , made to function and be repaired , your glock may be drop in parts but a pressure event any part from any gun will fit .

I do not see the glock as better equal as a weapon yes , but then pistols are for the last resort or handy to carry to have a weapon , I have not seen the military awarding glock a contract , and as for police agency use glock did what apple did with the schools , give them and hook them .

I have plenty of glocks and I have more then a few 1911 and in different calibers , most range or plinking toys , and for serious work I still like the revolver , or of course my m1 Garand .

I also have Springfield xdm and mod2 in 45 acp , May like them more then a glock also .

[M-Tecs]

Any firearm can be damaged under the right (or wrong) circumstances. It is true that a Glock has fewer parts and they are all drop in. After that I see zero advantages of a Glock. I am mostly around 1911's yet I have seen more blown Glocks than 1911's but that is mostly due to the newer lesser experienced reloaders are shooting Glocks with the exception of the Glock Kabooms related to the excessive chamber undercuts https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/glock-alleged-kaboom-defect-again-the-subject-of-class-action-lawsuit/

I have never seen an example of a 1911 Kabooming with factory a load yet I have seen several Glock do just that. I also hate Glock brass with the Glock smiley


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20aSjSMKqY4

Personally for me the 1911 is a superior choice for combat or self defense. For my wife that is not a gun person the Glock would be a better choice since it's truly a point and shoot with any safeties other than the trigger design. She prefers a 4" HB M10 for home defense.

For me my double stack fully ramp 1911's are a perfect of combat guns as ever designed. That being said I no longer wear a uniform going into combat zones so that mostly is a moot point. Even when I did it was a most point since I only could carry a Berretta M9 or M16/M4.

For my low threat level daily carry a Sig 365XL with a Holoson 507X X2 is my first choice over the 1911's or Glocks since it extremely compact and light weight with one of the better striker fired trigger pulls. The Red dot is for my older eyes.

For self defense I started with 1911's and revolvers than was forced to carry M9's. I tried the Glocks for awhile but my Glocks are one of the few guns I have ever sold. Today for SD I still have revolvers, 1911's and Sig 365XL but no Glocks so for my use that would make Glocks obsolete.

[pettypace]

My shooting mentor for over 50 years (may he rest in peace) had a way with words. He had a simplistic answer for most everything and it usually turned out to be right.

He disliked most anything "automatic" -- perhaps most especially in cars and firearms. I'm all but certain he never owned anything with an automatic transmission or any semi-automatic firearm.

Once I pressed him for his opinion of the 1911. His answer: "No one who ever needed one has anything bad to say about them."

[Bill*B]

Of course it is obsolete, and was 30 years ago - but still - I love it so! I use the 1911 still, and always will. Kids can shoot the modern stuff.

[AZ Pete]

of course it is obsolete, that is why so many manufacturers are still turning them out and they are selling like hot cakes.

I cannot count the times that some "gun writer" has published similar tripe. They run out of meaningful stories and have a deadline, so here we go again.

[M-Tecs]

of course it is obsolete, that is why so many manufacturers are still turning them out and they are selling like hot cakes.

I cannot count the times that some "gun writer" has published similar tripe. They run out of meaningful stories and have a deadline, so here we go again.

Agreed 100%.

Obsolete has a very specific definition none of which is applicable to the 1911.

obsolete adjective

ob·​so·​lete | \ ˌäb-sə-ˈlēt , ˈäb-sə-ˌlēt \
Definition of obsolete
1a: no longer in use or no longer useful
an obsolete word
b: of a kind or style no longer current : OLD-FASHIONED
an obsolete technology

Considering there are several dozen current 1911 manufactures and several hundred aftermarket part manufactures coupled with fact that the 1911 for still king for the hill for NRA Bullseye matches . Same for the racegun crowd that are purchasing their own firearms.

The 1911 may be a lot of thing but obsolete is not one of them.

[tazman]

No firearm that functions as designed and you can still get ammo for(discounting current shortage) is ever obsolete.
It may not suit your purpose or your hands, but as long as it fires and hits the target, it is not obsolete. It may be that there is something that does the job a bit better or faster out there, but that doesn't mean the first one doesn't work properly any more.
When firearms will no longer penetrate the vitals of animals, humans, or targets, then they may be obsolete but not before.

[Daekar]

I have never been able to shoot a Glock worth a hill of beans, but the first K-frame that hit my palm was like coming home, even with full-power 357 loads. If a 1911 works for you and you're OK with the power density, I wouldn't think twice about it.