Good bullet for deer with a .357 mag.

[johnsonian09]

Hello, they opened up handgun hunting for private land here a 2 or 3 years ago.

Finally got my hands on a .357mag.

Revolvers are really hard to come by around here. And the ammo is even harder.
Local shop here was charging $55 w/out tax for 5, 12 gauge slugs. $49 for a box of 9mm. ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm not really a revolver guy. So what's a good bullet for deer out of a 6 inch revolver? I looked on noe and they have everything from 84 grains to 190.

At what speed should I start thinking about gas checks or would that not really be a problem with pistol/revolver cartridges?

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[megasupermagnum]

Gas checks will never hurt you, so that's up to you. I don't think it is a speed problem in 357 magnum, if you are really looking to push them hard, a gas check can only help. I shoot plain base.

NOE 360-176-SWC cast of 20:1 alloy with the shallow hollow point pin. I like 10 gr of Bluedot for about 1225-1250 fps. This is my hunting load. H110 is also a usual good shooter. Most everyone likes 2400 as well.

[Thumbcocker]

I would look at a MP .359 hammer173 grain 4 cavity with hp pins. I don't care for gas checks but others like them. Size to fit and leading should not be an issue. Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. Then practice with your gun. Then practice some more.

Don't just shoot paper. Get the gun zeroed then shoot at small targets (soda can or smaller) at the maximum distance you will get shots in your area. You will build confidence and any closer shots will be easy.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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[johnsonian09]

I have a noe 84grn hp meant for 38 special that I've been using for my airgun slugs.

I plan to use it as a good fun plinking/ practice round while I work up a deer load. As I already have a bunch powder coated already

I use h110 for 300blk supers so that will probably be my preferred powder for hunting loads in the revolver

Farthest I can see around here is 50 yards or so. Probably shoot inside 30 with this tho. I think I'm just going to use a red dot with it not a scope. I tried a friend's blackhawk with a scope and the shaking thru me off. I was better with irons then the scope


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[725]

johnsonian09 ~ Check out the LASC site for an author by the name of Glenn Fryxell. He wrote an article about (and titled) "A Bullet For All Seasons". I just can't remember the bullet mold number off the top of my head. Anyway, I use that bullet and have good success with it. Deep penetrator. Lays pigs out flat.

I just put up the LASC site and found the bullet mold number ~ .358627. It's a handful. Good luck.

[badguybuster]

Honestly....the simplest is a 158 grain XTP pushed a good charge of H110.

[Thumbcocker]

Honestly....the simplest is a 158 grain XTP pushed a good charge of H110.Blasphemy

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[tazman]

Blasphemy

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Weeeell, in the title, the man did say bullet.

[chuck40219]

Blasphemy

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Please tell me why?

chuck40219

[Thumbcocker]

Please tell me why?

chuck40219Why does this site exist? Also the "Blasphemy" should have been in purple font.

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[johnsonian09]

The site is for CAST BooLITs

Lol I load my fare share of factory ones but cast bullets are more satisfying. I'm sure all the hornandy and barnes and so on are fine to use but it makes me happy to manufacture as much as I can

Even make my own primers occasionally, blackpowders for the cap and ball and muzzleloader. Display case for the gun, etc.

Also a bit of interesting history: in bible times the Jews used slings to throw stones, and sometimes lead balls. And were said to be more accurate then archers. The stones and balls were both called bullets. And yet the arrows wrapped in leather and shot out of arquebus [precursor to matchlocks and such] are also bullets.

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[chuck40219]

Why does this site exist? Also the "Blasphemy" should have been in purple font.

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OK I get it now, was not thinking straight. I was wondering if something was wrong with them. I shoot the home cast Lee 158gr round flat point in all my 357's. 3 of them, have only shot 2 deer with them though. sold the 44 mag and still use the 50 cal ML (flintlock and caplock.

chuck40219

[stubshaft]

I shoot the old NEI 200gr TC Sillywett boolit out of my 1894C and don't know how well it does on deer, BUT it is death and destruction on hogs, feral sheep and goats!

[megasupermagnum]

I don't like scopes on handguns either. A fixed 2x isn't too bad, but is definitely better from a rest. A 4x or stronger is quite awful unless you are shooting off of a bench. I use sights myself, but a little reflex sight is quite the handy and easy to use thing on a revolver. Get one with a smaller MOA dot, and they can be every bit as accurate to shoot as a 2x scope.

[MT Gianni]

NOE 160 WFN or 180 WFN will do the job.

[Bigslug]

At inside of 50 yards, you really do not need to over-think this. Any good solid with a meplat @ 70-75% of full diameter delivered to the right place will do the job. 140 to 180 grains would be my preferred operating range. Maximum speeds not required.

[30calflash]

The WFN style, Keith SWC and Thompson bullet will work fine at reasonable ranges, mostly limited by your abilities. A good flat nose and velocity will get the job done.

You didn't mention the firearm to be used, or barrel length. It may make a difference and some here could add their experiences if that's known.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Honestly....the simplest is a 158 grain XTP pushed a good charge of H110.

This

[Larry Gibson]

Honestly....the simplest is a 158 grain XTP pushed a good charge of H110.

Yes, that is a good solution if you don't cast.

Me, since I do cast bullets? I've found over many years the 358156 cast of 16-1 alloy, GC'd and driven to 1400 fps out of a 6" barreled revolver. H110, 2400 and 296 will get you there with top end SAAMI spec loads. I usually HP the bullets used for hunting 3/16the deep with a Forster 1/8" HP tool. Bullets weight 160 gr fully dressed and give excellent terminal performance with expansion and all the penetration (thru and thru) needed on deer.

[Three44s]

With the time you’ve got I would just ignore the bias against J-words and go jacketed for now. You have a new to you Gun and a season in mere weeks I suspect.

You can play with cast in the meantime and you might pull it all off but do not hold your breath.

I would not throw ultra light weight chunks of lead at a game animal and risk losing it either.

Hope your hunt goes well and you ultimately find and can acquire a mold suitable for your task in due time.

Three44s

[anothernewb]

Any of the 158 SWC profiles with a nice meplat and of sufficient hardness under a good charge of H110/W296/2400 will do nicely, at a reasonable range.

[Grayone]

I like the lyman 358-156 powdercoated. The Lee 358-158 with gas check is another good one.

[Three44s]

Larry Gibson’s suggestion of the HP ‘ed 358156 is always a good one because deer are built pretty light.

I would be leery about going to heavy and/or non-expanding boolits for them in a smaller caliber such as 357. You want some expansion there.

If you can swing getting a good mold with a gas check and hollow point and get the load doped out it all in time I would go for it!

Three44s

[megasupermagnum]

Maybe I missed it, but where are you guys getting that his season is only weeks away? I don't see where he mentions what state, or even what country he is in.

[megasupermagnum]

Honestly....the simplest is a 158 grain XTP pushed a good charge of H110.

I was never that impressed with the 158gr XTP. They shot OK, but nothing spectacular. It also doesn't seem like I ever got the velocity I should have out of them, topping out at maybe 1300 fps. You also have to be careful, the 158 gr XTP-FP would be garbage in a handgun, the standard XTP works fairly well. The 180gr XTP is a better bullet, the same velocity as the 158gr's, great expansion, and they usually shoot very well.

[badguybuster]

Ive had excellent results with the 158s. The 140 Barnes TacTX are also excellent

[johnsonian09]

Gun season is late November. I'm sure I can get a good load going by then. In September its archery and my bow/arrow combo is already good to go.

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[megasupermagnum]

Gun season is late November. I'm sure I can get a good load going by then. In September its archery and my bow/arrow combo is already good to go.

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That's plenty of time. Don't drag your feet on buying a mold though. That NOE mold I mentioned only has 2 in stock. There's no telling how fast they will sell, or when there will be more in this market. Even if you choose a solid mold, some manufacturers are months out. I bought a mold from Accurate on June 15th, and it still isn't here.

[johnsonian09]

I ordered the mp 359 hammer multi HP PB. 4cav.

I usually go for 2 cavities but they only had 4cavities on hand and I do anticipate making quite a few of these.

It looked promising with that wide nose and choice of solid or hp.

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[megasupermagnum]

No doubt you can't go wrong with that one. It should shoot good fast or slow. solid or HP will kill deer fine. I'd try out that with 20:1 alloy and the small HP, but I've not shot that bullet.

[Thumbcocker]

I ordered the mp 359 hammer multi HP PB. 4cav.

I usually go for 2 cavities but they only had 4cavities on hand and I do anticipate making quite a few of these.

It looked promising with that wide nose and choice of solid or hp.

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Please keep us posted on your progress.

[Wheelguns 1961]

I ordered the mp 359 hammer multi HP PB. 4cav.

I usually go for 2 cavities but they only had 4cavities on hand and I do anticipate making quite a few of these.

It looked promising with that wide nose and choice of solid or hp.

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I have that mold. It is a great shooting bullet. I usually hunt deer with my 45 colt or my 41 mag, but I think you will be very happy with that one.

[Buck Shot]

I ordered the mp 359 hammer multi HP PB. 4cav.

I usually go for 2 cavities but they only had 4cavities on hand and I do anticipate making quite a few of these.

It looked promising with that wide nose and choice of solid or hp.


I saw that for sale, and I can't decide whether to buy that mold or to wait until they have the 358-429 Keith design HP mold (https://www.mp-molds.com/product/358-429-keith-hollow-point-plain-base-4-cavity-mold/) available again.

Please let us know how you like yours.

[Beerd]

I ordered the mp 359 hammer multi HP PB. 4cav.

I usually go for 2 cavities but they only had 4cavities on hand and I do anticipate making quite a few of these.

It looked promising with that wide nose and choice of solid or hp.

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looks like a dandy.
if someday you wold like to try that bullet with an aluminum plain base gas check, drop me a PM.
..

[nannyhammer]

An example from the hunting pages above with some .357 info.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?413371-357-Success

[Rodfac]

Like Mr Gibson, I have used and trust Lyman's 358156 GC. I cast mine with 50-50 ACWW & pure lead. I anneal my gas checks, get good accuracy from handgun (Rugers and several Smiths), as well as a Marlin 1894 cs carbine. For the Marlin I size to 0.359" but use 0.358" for the revolvers. I like a heavy dose of 2400 for all of the above but use modern pressure limits. Larry's suggestion for hollow pointing is a good one (the Forester drill method); and one that I've wanted to try over the years...just never got around to it.

However, I do have one of Mihec's versions of the old Thompson designed 358156 gc, (MP360 156 IIRC) that came with a Penta hp pin as well as two sizes of round hp pins. Accuracy is not quite as good, in my example, with the hp pins in use...tho it could just be my casting technique as they do take some break-in & getting used to. Were I inclined to use an HP bullet, the Penta shaped HP would be my choice....YMMv.

I'm of the opinion that while a .357 can be used to kill deer, I'd not recommend it beyond 50 yds, and then only when bullet placement can be absolutely assured. A better choice, (IMHO), if a .357 is the only choice, would be a rifle/carbine. Rod

[Good Cheer]

#358156 and RCBS 38-162-SWC are both good choices.
If you want wider flatter noses go a little heavier.
If you want to hot rod a hunting load then treat that 6" barrel like the short rifle it is, selecting a mold design that puts more lead up the chamber throat instead of inside the case. With modern slow powders like 296 and H110 and others, it's easier than it sounds, just make the forward section geometry less than chamber throat diameter but self-center when it reaches the barrel and work your loads up carefully.
This was a 1981 experiment to test the idea, made by Hoch for Ruger's; extremely accurate.
http://i.imgur.com/mDlQnZO.jpg (https://imgur.com/mDlQnZO)

By example, this one from LBT doesn't have the front part small enough in diameter but the front can be sized .001 below chamber throat diameter in a separate operation to allow seating the flat nose to the front of the cylinder. As you'd suspect, what works is a matter of cylinder length, where you crimp; it all comes into play.
http://i.imgur.com/1zjBlaq.jpg (https://imgur.com/1zjBlaq)

[derek45]

140gx XTP with a max load of H110/w296 or 2400

[DougGuy]

http://i.imgur.com/1zjBlaq.jpg (https://imgur.com/1zjBlaq)

THIS^^^^ is perfection! Cast in 50/50+2% with soft lube over H110 to 1175 - 1200fps would make an excellent choice for hunting. This boolit would work well at 950fps as well, but personally I like slightly supersonic loads for hunting, I like the boolit to hit hide before the sound reaches them.

OP also has time to have throats honed to .3585" if he wishes to size to .358" which most would choose.

[johnsonian09]

So today after a long day I came home pleasantly surprised that the hammer mold came in early. Also when I opened it up it has all the sizes of hollowpoint pin and an additional set of what I think is penta points which I never used before. They are in the middle between the deep hp and the medium one.

I made some up today in penta, deep hp, and the cup point. Powdercoated 1 coat,sized and loaded some up with starting loads.

Does anyone think the cup point will expand some and possibly still pass through on deer?

I think the max load il use with 165grn bullet is around
16 grains of h110 if the accuracy is there and if the cases dont get too sticky in the cylinder. That should push it to between 1200-1300ish fps I think

Lymans most accurate load for 170grn bullets is 14-15 grains of h110 so I hope it will work well.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/8090c0bda9e82361c7fb6ff8bd6a4df7.jpg

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[megasupermagnum]

That depends what alloy you casted them with. If you used 20:1, or that 50/50+2%, or similar, then yes, the shallow hollow point (big cup point) will expand some, and likely pass through. I have no idea what the penta point will do. The big hollow point will probably really flatten out more than you want, that looks like a really big hollow point. Probably very good in 38 special.

13.5 gr should be a good starting point with H110, 16 gr should be a good max, and I really doubt you will get sticky extraction. I've run over that myself. No need to worry about speeds, just use what is most accurate in that range. I seem to recall 15 grains shooting very good with another bullet.

[358429]

So today after a long day I came home pleasantly surprised that the hammer mold came in early. Also when I opened it up it has all the sizes of hollowpoint pin and an additional set of what I think is penta points which I never used before. They are in the middle between the deep hp and the medium one.

I made some up today in penta, deep hp, and the cup point. Powdercoated 1 coat,sized and loaded some up with starting loads.

Does anyone think the cup point will expand some and possibly still pass through on deer?

I think the max load il use with 165grn bullet is around
16 grains of h110 if the accuracy is there and if the cases dont get too sticky in the cylinder. That should push it to between 1200-1300ish fps I think

Lymans most accurate load for 170grn bullets is 14-15 grains of h110 so I hope it will work well.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/8090c0bda9e82361c7fb6ff8bd6a4df7.jpg

Sent from my SM-J337VPP using TapatalkThe bullet on the left looks like a flying ashtray. It looks awesome.

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[Gamsek]

So today after a long day I came home pleasantly surprised that the hammer mold came in early. Also when I opened it up it has all the sizes of hollowpoint pin and an additional set of what I think is penta points which I never used before. They are in the middle between the deep hp and the medium one.

I made some up today in penta, deep hp, and the cup point. Powdercoated 1 coat,sized and loaded some up with starting loads.

Does anyone think the cup point will expand some and possibly still pass through on deer?

I think the max load il use with 165grn bullet is around
16 grains of h110 if the accuracy is there and if the cases dont get too sticky in the cylinder. That should push it to between 1200-1300ish fps I think

Lymans most accurate load for 170grn bullets is 14-15 grains of h110 so I hope it will work well.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/8090c0bda9e82361c7fb6ff8bd6a4df7.jpg

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/423a0fd9c587fcdb2e991dd0eecf3496.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/b84e645cf3f6d941d7ac3f973bc05723.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/f5c158a37566500d7f64f6ac8f4443cf.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/212e5ab1c9917db60aeaef993bc72a40.jpg
Cup and deep HP on a .359 Hammer

[johnsonian09]

Gamsek thankyou for the pictures!

Gives me a good idea about what to expect from these bullets.

I think il probably use the cup point for deer and if it gets a clean pass through no problem I might try the smaller hp pin.

Those large HP look gnarly I'd hate to get hit with one of those at any velocity. But I'm not sure that would pass thru deer or not yet

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[Buck Shot]

I like a bullet to stop just under the skin on the far side of a deer. That way, the deer absorbs 100% of the energy in the bullet, with maximum tissue trauma. Never had a deer take even one step after that (probably 30+ deer).

Every deer I've ever shot where the bullet went through the deer (probably 6 or 8 deer), the deer ran.

People talk about pass-throughs making better blood trails, but if the deer is DRT, no need for a blood trail. YMMV.

[megasupermagnum]

Cup and deep HP on a .359 Hammer

What alloy, and what speed?

Your pictures make the large HP look much smaller than johnsonian09's. I'm guessing it is just the camera flash, or bullet color. I'd use either one on a deer with no problem.

[megasupermagnum]

I like a bullet to stop just under the skin on the far side of a deer. That way, the deer absorbs 100% of the energy in the bullet, with maximum tissue trauma. Never had a deer take even one step after that (probably 30+ deer).

Every deer I've ever shot where the bullet went through the deer (probably 6 or 8 deer), the deer ran.

People talk about pass-throughs making better blood trails, but if the deer is DRT, no need for a blood trail. YMMV.

If you hunt long enough, especially with lower power rounds, like pistols and revolvers, sooner or later one will run. That said, if I had to choose between a bullet caught by the far side skin but destruction of the lungs, or a pass through but only a finger size hole, I'll take the expanding bullet every single time.

[Gamsek]

What alloy, and what speed?

Your pictures make the large HP look much smaller than johnsonian09's. I'm guessing it is just the camera flash, or bullet color. I'd use either one on a deer with no problem.

25:1 alloy, 925fps.

[megasupermagnum]

25:1 alloy, 925fps.

Ok, so a hot 38 special. I wonder if that cup point wouldn't work like lightning at a 1300+ fps magnum loading. I've only ever shot my Keith cup points into wood, so I hate to post pictures of them as anything other than what they were. Fun shooting.

[johnsonian09]

Possibly? I just ordered 1k+ of once fired.
PM me if you want to talk in detail

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[johnsonian09]

10yards not far but a start. This was using the cup point 170grnhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210905/862d5730e23a6a6eb973e6946a6a909e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210905/027647711b6c423d5bedc535924e1c2d.jpg

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[megasupermagnum]

You'll definitely want to move way back. You would be surprised how many loads that shoot great at even 25 yards, start turning very sour by 50 yards. I do all my open sight handgun load workup at 50 yards. You will also want to shoot 6 shot groups (or whatever your cylinder holds). Unless you always fire your first shot on the same hole in the cylinder, that is a variable I take into account. Sometimes you can get a revolver with an outright dud of a cylinder, so it's something to keep in mind.

[johnsonian09]

The pistol range here only goes back 20 yards unfortunately.

I did not think of some cylinders negatively affecting shots, thanks for that bit.

At this close I would hope to be tighter. Group wise but it could be me aswell.
Maybe figure out a little simple rest to bring to the range to take the human out of the test shot.

Recoil on the 357magnum is pretty stout but manageable. Really enjoyed shooting some 38special I made up for Haha's and getting used to the revolver

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[marshall623]

NOE 180 WFN will let the air out of a whitetail , no bones or ribs and still left a couple chunks of lung in the leaves behind the deer where it stood

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[megasupermagnum]

Definitely don't push yourself too hard on recoil. It's not so easy to undo a flinch. You will have to figure out what target works best for you. I can't shoot anything with color, even though I'm not color blind. I need a solid black against a light background. I even find brown/tan works better as a background sometimes than a pure white. The NRA bullseye targets are ok. They work better with a 6 o'clock hold. I personally like an upside down T, made out of black duct tape, usually on a brown paper background. That gives me the most crystal clear picture that I have found, and my groups reflect that.

Back to the flinch thing, consistent grip is a big part of a hunting handgun. I find if I've pushed too far on recoil, I'll begin tensing before a shot. This is no good. You need a consistent firmness 2 hand grip every shot. There's a whole art to sand bagging a revolver. Some days I still can't get comfortable on sandbags, and what I like is to set my wrists on the sandbag, leaving the gun unsupported. This is also how I sight in, since this is the exact hold I use when hunting. Wrists rested on something.

[murf205]

288336 I don't hunt deer with a 357 but I have loaded these Cast Performance 180 gr LBT boolits for a friend and he tells me they hit hogs like cloud to ground lightning! My 686 loves them, especially at longer ranges. Good luck with yours. I don't know where you will be hunting but if it is heavily wooded or has a lot of underbrush, a complete pass through will be VERY beneficial.

[roverboy]

murf205, I've got some bullets that look a lot like yours. They are GC and weigh 193 gr. I've shot some with 13.5 gr. 2400, and they shoot good. No extraction problems. Never hunted with them but, need to try them out sometime.

[murf205]

murf205, I've got some bullets that look a lot like yours. They are GC and weigh 193 gr. I've shot some with 13.5 gr. 2400, and they shoot good. No extraction problems. Never hunted with them but, need to try them out sometime.

If your gun is similar to my 6" 686, I get 1297 average of 5 shots with that load and the 180 gr GC Cast Perf boolit, CCI std primer. My most accurate 180 gr load by a slight amount is 13.5 grs of H110 and the same 180 gr booilit with a W-W mag pistol primer for 1270 fps average. I also have an Accurate 358160H 160 gr mold and 13.6 grs of 2400 does 1287fps with no pressure signs at all. It is super accurate and if you notice the speeds of all these loads, you can see how I can use any of these without making any sight adjustments to the 2x scope on the gun.
johnsonian09, I hope this gives you an idea of what to expect velocity wise.288377

[roverboy]

I've shot them out of a 6" Security Six. I've not tried them over my chrono yet. But, they did shoot good. I used CCI 500's and may try 550's, just to see if there's any difference. Standard primers will sometimes have large velocity variations with slower powders, compared to Magnums.

[murf205]

DEFINITELY use Mag primers with H110/296. It wont hurt to use them with 2400 but I have had some bad experiences with H110 and std primers.

[jonp]

Lee 358-158 RF. Big fan of this profile. Load and cast as you see fit.

Ive taken whitetail with a 357 gp100 and iron sights. Accuracy is key with the 357 so pick your most accurate loading, set a reasonable distance and practice. My distance was 25-30yrds. Last whitetail was 35yrds. Broke tge near shoulder, went through both lungs and lodged on the offside. 175lbs

[Jtarm]

Weeeell, in the title, the man did say bullet.

I have no problem with j-words for hunting, but he’ll need all the practice he can get to kill game with a handgun. Cast is the way to afford it.