Pedersoli 12 ga rifled Barrel Double

[Dixie Slugs]

Last night Russell Smith in North Carolina called to give me the results of firing the Dixie Tornado hard cast bullet/BPI sabot in his Pedersoli. He used 150 grs of blackpowder, a .250" hard Circle Fly nitro, and the Tornado/Bpi sabot. The Dixie Tornado bullet is .503" - 450 gr and is cast from the same bullet alloy we make our Terminator and Tusker with. Bullets hit point on and penetrated deep in damo soil. Russell said he was able to start the load into the barrel with thumb pressure. Recoverd sabots were flared, but intact. All in all...the load was very accurate indeed and seemed to be very close to regulation.
This combonation gives the Pedersoli a true dangerous game load and is much better than the soft lead patched ball.
He will be doing chrono work on the load tiday and I will post the results. See attached Dixie Tornado in the BPI sabot.
Regards, James

[longbow]

Most entertaining. I will look forward to further info and targets. This is likely the only double rifle I will ever be able to afford... or at least justify to the wife. But I do like black powder and big bore muzzleloaders.

Nice to see how it performs.

Thanks James,

Longbow

[Dixie Slugs]

I just got through talking to Russell Smith in North Carolina again. He said the gun was a special order to Pedersoli through Taylors and Co. The gun is a Pedersoli Kodiak Safari - 11 pounds - one turn in 75" - 25" barrels. His load was 150 grs of Goex - the Dixie Tornado/BPI sabot with a Circle Fly hard .250" nitro over the powder, under the sabot. Velocity with Goex was @ 1355'/" and with Triple Seven @ 1400 avg'/".
The sabot released the Tornado inside of 25 yards, bullets hitting point on and grouping (both barrels) at 50 yards. No blown sabots.
As reported the Dixie Tornado will drop at 450/460 grs depending on the alloy. It will drop at 450 with WW and a little tin and 460 with 94%-3%-3% certified bullet alloy. Recovered bullet from damp soil were intact. The BC of the Dixie Tornado is .271, if you want to run some numbers on the load.
His next test next month will be with Dixie Tuskers cast from pure lead, but he said he felt the hard cast Tornado would be the best killer.
Quite frankly I thought the velocity would be higher with the .503"-450/460 gr Tornado in the BPI sabot. However, the Brits got 1584'/" (25" barrels) - .725" - 600 gr bullets with 191 grs of blackpowder - 13 pound double. The numbers the Dixie Tuker gives with a .730" - 600 gr bullet - 20" barrel. - 1525'/" - 12 ga 3" hull.
Regards, James

[freedom475]

I am surprised that velocity is not higher??

I get right at 1300fps with the patched .715 round ball(550 grs. I believe) from my Kodiak over 160gr. fffg.

The nice part is that it will still give almost 1200fps with 120gr. of powder.

I know that the RB is not much of a boolit but I have packed it a lot of miles in Grizzly country and never felt undergunned.

The .715 RB will sure flatten a whitetail...even with a lung shot...when it is going slow over about 75gr. of fffg.:Fire:

[Dixie Slugs]

Well, I certainly agreed that one should carry what they have confidence in when in dangerous game country! I have my on opinions of pure lead balls and bullets based on about 50 years of hunting. ....and that is reflected in the ammo products I build.
The Brits made some great ball cartridge guns, both smoothbore mL's and with rifled cartridge barrels. They had one thing in common...very hard alloy or arsenic treated balls!
Today we see interest again in ball guns, both in ML and cartridge guns. The problem that the cartridge gun fellows overlook is not the fit in the barrel (they can fix that) but the forcing cone ahead of the chamber. The smootbotr ML felows can either use a very hard ball the fits the bore or a patched ball....since there is no funnel shape forcing cone in the ML.
I am now working on a composite bullet that will work in both the ML and smoothbore cartridge gun. It ahs a very hard alloy nose portion and a pure lead base. The nose diameter is .685" to go through any full choke barrel, with a pure lead base that will swage down for the same full choke. This will be an interesting bullet for the 12 bore Pedersoli guns and modern smoothbores when loaded in a hull.
I want to study the results that Russell Smith got over the chrono again. It just seems that the velocity is too low for that powder weight. The sabot he shot is very slick (less friction) and he may have to go the a finer grain blackpowder.
We do need to remember the blackpowder velocity of 1000'/ that the Brits got with their 730"-730 gr Paradox 12 bore guns...and later 1200'/" with Cordite.
they in turn, like and kept their smoothbore ball gun in use for many years after the rifled barrels were out...mainly due to the higher velocity (less barrel friction).
Regards, James

[northmn]

Some of the issues that control velocity. Powder lot is a big one with some a little slower than others. Swiss powder might kick up the velocities a little. Also the ratio of the charge to the ball weight is such that 150 grains is about a 1-3 ratio. The velocity is not out of line for a big bore and that ratio. As the bore size goes up the velocity ratio decreases due to the scaler effect. In a 50 one gets about 1800-1900 with 90 grains of powder and about 1400-1500 with 60 grains. With a 58 140 grains will maybe make 1600 (about 1/2) I am also talking about longer barrels. As a rule shorter barrels will give up some velocity. While someone will mention exceptions it is a general rule. WW can be loaded with a RB like a standard 690 ball and will work. An 11 pound gun is going to kick like hell with the charges you need to get a higher fps. You are likely looking at over 200 grains to see the velocities you want.

Northmn

[Dixie Slugs]

Interesting indeed! As far as I am concerned the load he has with Triple Seven at 1400'/" with the hard cast .503"-450/460 gr bullets is powerful enough. The Tornado bullet has a BC 0f .271 (I think that figure is correct) and should be fine.
Dixie is working on a 12 ga 3" load at present and hope to get to 1600'/" in Hasting 12 ga rifled barrels.. If so, that is were we plan to stop.
Regards, James