Choice of Revolver against Grizzly Bear attack.

[Graybeard96]

Hi there,
For a good 40 years I always could trust my FN .338 Win Mag with a 250 Grain Slug to protect me in this Grizzly infested Area in I am Guiding and Outfitting in. Getting older it gets much harder to haul all the equipment, Axe-Brush Axe-shovel & Chainsaw around on my Back while maintaining narrow Foot Trails in heavy undergrowth between the River/Lake Flats up to Timberline. My hearing and alertness is also not what it used to be and I am almost always by myself all Day.
While I am not to keen to trade the old .338 with a Revolver, the later on my Hip is just the better choice then the heavy Rifle 50 ft away leaning against a Tree so I decided to carry my SS Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter in .44 Rem. Mag. However the other Day during a practice session the Revolver had a catastrophic failure and furthermore the empty Shells are very cumbersome to eject unlike the older SAA Colts or Ruger before the transfer Bar was invented. So I came to the conclusion this Revolver is not suited for my particular Purpose.
For now I will be using a DA S&W 586 in .357 Mag. but I am thinking also of purchasing a new DA Revolver in Stainless Steel and I am Eyeballing the DA Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Rem. Mag and also the DA Ruger Redhawk.
I would be interested to hear from those which actually carry any of those 2 Revolvers and what there Opinion is.

Thank's

[Burnt Fingers]

All ya need is a 22.

You can shoot the other guy in the knee and leave him behind. Or you can use it to shoot yourself if needed.

Seriously, if you can get a RedHawk in 45 Colt and handload your ammo I'd go that way. The RedHawk is stupid strong and you can load 45 Colt loads that will surpass 44 mag levels.

[imashooter2]

One of the S&W X frames. Take your choice and get a good chest holster. They’re heavy.

[downzero]

Seriously, if you can get a RedHawk in 45 Colt and handload your ammo I'd go that way. The RedHawk is stupid strong and you can load 45 Colt loads that will surpass 44 mag levels.

That's what I have.

although if I had it to do all over again, I might have the Super Redhawk Alaskan (.454 Casull), because there really is no need for the 4.2" barrel when the 2.5" will do the job. 45 Colts at Ruger Only pressures are plenty though, more than I can handle even with 300 grain bullets and there are loads for up to 365 grains.

[MT Gianni]

I weigh about 250 lbs and the Redhawk is too heavy to pack around with a load on my back. I wouldn't bother with the Super for me. I like the S&W 69, if you need a handgun for bear you need one that is always there, draws easily and point shoots accurately for one or at most two shots before it is one you. I think you are over thinking the reload option for what you have. The idea that you can dump 6 shots into a bear and reload for more is totally underestimating them IMO.

[JAC43]

Smith 69 with your choice of barrel length and carried in a Kenai chest holster. Its fast and light.

[Shuz]

Since you are considering buying a new revolver, I think you should consider the Smith 329PD in .44 magnum.It is very light in weight, which means you can carry it all day and hardly notice the weight. I fit mine with a set of Hogue/Smith X frame grips to help manage the recoil, which is still severe with boolits from 250g and up, but when your life is on the line, you won't notice it. My preference is to carry something light all day rather than a boat anchor like the Ruger , since both will do the job IF necessary! :bigsmyl2:

[Graybeard96]

I should have mentioned I like to stay with the Caliber .44 Remington Magnum because I am all set up in my RCBS Piggyback Reloading Outfit and preferably a 7.5" Barrel because that is what I am used to in my other DA Revolvers none of which is in Stainless Steel which is much more suitable for Day to Day use shaving in a often wet Leather Belt Holster with a Flap (similar to the original US Army Revolver Holsters of the 1880s) to prevent Dirt, Leaves and Chainsaw shavings getting onto the Gun. By Govt. Regulation I am required to carry on the Belt, no Cross draw or Shoulder Holster allowed.

Cheers

[dverna]

I cannot recommend what would be best for you, but I am curious how a SBH had a "catastrophic failure".

If it was an over load, you might want to go up in power level rather than pushing a .44 Mag.

[Dom]

The bullet of choice I use in my Ruger Redhawk is the 310gr at about 1300 fps. Definitely a handful. The Ruger is super tough & will handle the load with no problem. I also have a S&W 629 4". This load will almost rip the revolver out of your hand because of it's lite weight. I love the 629 for it's handiness , but for a possible follow up shot the Ruger is my absolute go to revolver. Also there are heavier 44 bullets available. When it comes to, momentum & penetration, a heavy bullet is the way to go.

[Graybeard96]

I cannot recommend what would be best for you, but I am curious how a SBH had a "catastrophic failure".

If it was an over load, you might want to go up in power level rather than pushing a .44 Mag.

Ejector Rod Causing Stut broke off causing the whole assembly to fall into the Dirt. Did not notice it until I wanted to eject the spent Casings. If that would have happened in the Bush I would likely never have found the Parts leaving me to peel the Casings out with my Swiss Army Knife.

Cheers

[DougGuy]

My first choice would be a 12 ga Mossberg loaded with 8 slugs in the mag and one in the chamber.

If I had to take a revolver into thick brush I would take a 4" barreled Super Redhawk in 454 Casull or 480 Ruger.

It is not a good decision to make caliber choice for protection against a grizzly based on what $45 set of dies one has.

This decision should be to carry the most knockdown energy you can carry and still shoot accurately.

[rintinglen]

I personally favor the Redhawk 44 Magnum. I would get a stainless 5 1/2" were it I, but I have the 7 1/2" and have carried it extensively in the field. I usually use a shoulder holster, to allow access with either hand, but you say you are denied this option by government fiat (Canada?). My personal experience was such that I can not recommend the S&W M-69. I don't have Grizzlies around here, but there are plenty of black bears.

[Gray Fox]

Regardless of your preferance for a 7.5" barrel, I would suggest a 4" .44 mag Redhawk as you are going to be packing a lot and using it seldom. The older you get the heavier it's going to feel. You can load a 300 grain RNFP boolit with a wide meplat to a velocity that will give deep penetration. Either that gun or one with a 7.5" barrel is going to require enough recovery time between shots that it probably won't make any difference. Just my thoughts from someone who has never even seen a grizzly. GF

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Whatever you decide on I would do lots of double action practice with milder loads. Maybe put a reduced power trigger return spring in. Unfortunate that Griz inhabit such beautiful country. They are not to be taken lightly. I have camped a few times in Griz country but prefer not to.

[bimus]

Some thing to think about . Predators mostly go after the older slower and crippled ones when they can .


Making me not as high on the food chain as I once was .

[Graybeard96]

I cannot recommend what would be best for you, but I am curious how a SBH had a "catastrophic failure".

If it was an over load, you might want to go up in power level rather than pushing a .44 Mag.

Ejector Rod Hausing Stut broke off causing the whole assembly to fall into the Dirt. Did not notice it until I wanted to eject the spent Casings. If that would have happened in the Bush I would likely never have found the Parts leaving me to peel the Casings out with my Swiss Army Knife.

Cheers

[Graybeard96]

My first choice would be a 12 ga Mossberg loaded with 8 slugs in the mag and one in the chamber.

If I had to take a revolver into thick brush I would take a 4" barreled Super Redhawk in 454 Casull or 480 Ruger. It is not a good decision to make caliber choice based on what $45 set of dies one has.

This decision should be to carry the most knockdown energy you can carry and still shoot accurately.

Having shot 1000s of rounds mostly DA with the .44 Rem. Mag. 240 Grain Bullets full Loads with my Revolvers I am very comfortable with this Round and length of Barrels. Yes The Shotgun with Slugs would be better but even better would be my .338 FN with which I had to Finnish off more Grizzly's including charging ones then most People will ever see in there Lifetime.

So back to the Revolver. Definitely wont be anything in Alloy. Must be all Stainless Steel everything else looks like S***t after a season in the Rain and in a Leather Holster. Must be DA for much faster reloading which is not likely necessary but a hell of a lot better then fiddling with ejecting Casings on a single action like my Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter and worse finding the Ejecting Rod fell off. O Brother !

Thank's

[Graybeard96]

Whatever you decide on I would do lots of double action practice with milder loads. Maybe put a reduced power trigger return spring in. Unfortunate that Griz inhabit such beautiful country. They are not to be taken lightly. I have camped a few times in Griz country but prefer not to.

Be careful playing with reducing Hammer Spring tension. On one of my S&W that spring backed out by itself probably over a period of several Years and I never noticed it. Thanks God I found out at the Shooting Range.

Thank,s

[LeonardC]

I'm not an expert on shooting bears, but a few thoughts on handguns:
The gun range I go to has posted a sign that a Brown Bear sow and cub have been frequenting the range. The Wife would rather I did not get eaten by a bear so she loaned me her 329 and Diamond D chest holster. It was a pleasure to carry for 8 hours. The bulk is noticeable, but the weight is OK. We load it with lite loads for her. It is a nice gun to carry and with 240 grain bullets I think it's a better choice than a .357. I had this gun on the range one day and another guy had the same 329 with different loads. He had some 310 grain "Bear" loads...he shot those exactly 2 times and quit for the day.

The 329 experiment worked so well, I thought I'd try another gun. I took a Dan Wesson .44 mag. with 8" barrel in a Diamond D chest holster. The weight difference and longer barrel is very noticable. I load the DW with heavier/faster bullets and I can hit better with it. It's a beautiful blued gun that only gets out of the safe when the weather is nice.

The S&W .500 4" is a very fun gun to shoot with less than full throttle loads. It's a very heavy gun to carry: I have a Galco hip holster for it. There are times I carry it in the woods, but not often. Those 440 grain bullets help make me feel safe.

The Ruger SRH in .480 is a very nice shooting gun. Lauches bullets of 410 grains very well. Again it's a heavy large gun to carry and it rides in a Bianchi hip hoster. I would not get a SRH in .44; to me it seems like an overkill for the .44. There was a limited run of Ruger single actions in .480, 5 shot, stainless and blue. I'm not a SA guy, but darn those were nice loooking packing guns for bear country! The SRH .480 cut down to 5" or so would be a nice gun!!

After I shoot those 400+ grain bullets and can see the holes in target with just my eyes, it's had to think about using a smaller gun. I'm sure all the .40+ guns will get the job done.

[dverna]

Funny how we cannot figure out for sure what is a perfect SD gun for two legged critters that get shot multiple times every day. Even with all that data/history we have varied "opinions".

I am lucky that I have zero chance of meeting up with a grizzly bear. I have no idea how frequently that occurs in grizzly country but one encounter is all it takes.

If I was in the OP's situation I would look at a Stainless Shockwave:

https://www.mossberg.com/product/590-shockwave-jic-12-gauge-50656/

And carry it in something like this:

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/102084751?pid=368061&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Holsters+%26+Belts&utm_content=368061&cm_mmc=pf_ci_bing-_-Shooting+-+Holsters+%26+Belts-_-DeSantis+Holster-_-368061&msclkid=4223e4d8f35e189dc15285c4c346ec49&utm_term=1101131606224

I know...it is not a holstered gun and will be slower to get out. It can be loaded with large buckshot and/or slugs. Looks like the scabbard will carry the gun without having the gun catch many branches. Weight is not too bad at 5.3 lbs. Recoil should be more manageable with two hands to control it. Certainly more effective than a .44 Mag.

I am a coward, so would look at reducing what I need carry to clear trails and focus on having an effective weapon.

[junkbug]

I am not familiar with your terms. Are you saying the screw that holds the ejector rod housing broke off? That is a bad scene, but any handgun is a tool, any of them can break.

Since you are used to what you have, I would take your revolver to a good gunsmith and have him (or her) tap the barrel for a bigger screw and put it back together. I know that failure is nerve wracking, but a Redhawk can break in some unexpected way just the same.

Best wishes to you with your search.

[500aquasteve]

If I lived in a high risk bear attack environment, my 3.5" 500 loaded with 500 grain HRNDY XTP FP's to close to 1200 ft/sec 25 yds (near max for the that short barrel) would make me feel safe(r). I would certainly practice and master drawing for, and hitting an approaching target

[badguybuster]

You could get a Model 625 and have it converted to 460 rowland.....thats beast

[Three44s]

A lot of good ideas thus far.

That said, my experience has been owning and shooting the Smith 629 Mountain Gun (4”), a 7.5” SS Redhawk and a 9 1/2” (SS) Super Redhawk, all in .44Mag

I traded my Super Redhawk for a 7.5” SRH in .480 Ruger .... I really like that .480!

I have shot the 329 Smith in 4” (44 Mag). If I was working and packing on my feet day in and out, I would give it serious thought. I get the part about how the gun will look, but I am more interested in how “I look” ..... as in having a less pretty gun but a more pretty me.

Back to stainless.

I have shot the Smith model 69 in 4” as one of my nephews has one. I can not tell you what it is other than grip shape but it is not very friendly in the recoil department. My Mountain Gun (629) weights just one ounce more (empty) but it is a sweet cat compared to the 69 in my opinion.

The RedHawks and Super RedHawks are plenty tough. They over shadow your Super Blackhawk. With a cylinder that is .050” longer than a SBH or the comparative Smith &Wessons you have more effective boiler room in your casings provided you chose a boolit that can take advantage of it. Fortunately Lee did just that with their ..310 gr cast boolit. Other designs are “dual” crimp groove as well. You might ask, does a mere .050” make much difference? Well yes especially when it’s housed in an “artillery piece” like a Redhawk or Super Redhawk.

I would be wary of lighter springs to make the trigger sweeter in the Rugers, I went that route and had to stick with old school Federal primers to keep from having light strikes (FTF). A very good gunsmith can help those triggers but it requires more than just changing springs alone to get where you maintain reliability.

My best advice I can give is shoot the various guns you are thinking about, hand guns are just too personal for someone else to pass judgement about what you will actually favor.

I had a Grizzly on our cattle mountain range 30 years ago but not since and never came across it myself and it must of moved on so I can not tell you any experience there.

With that, I favor my Smith MG for packability (39 oz ) and why I would think very hard about the 329 in a 4”.

But in Grizz country I would really think double action Ruger. In theory the Super Redhawk has a better trigger spring set up than a Redhawk, but my Redhawk out shot my Super (more because my RH cylinder is more consistent that was my first Super RH) but it was not really noticeable except at long range.

The SRH has another edge with grip choices over the RH and being more comfortable.

Simply put the S&Ws will not take the pounding long term that the DA Rugers can nor in my opinion the heavier bullets are somewhat tough on them (the Smiths). Untouched my Mountain Gun has worked into a trigger to die for, though. The S&Ws just are a very sweet ride, there is no two ways about it.

My .02 worth

Three44s

[Graybeard96]

I am not familiar with your terms. Are you saying the screw that holds the ejector rod housing broke off? That is a bad scene, but any handgun is a tool, any of them can break.

Since you are used to what you have, I would take your revolver to a good gunsmith and have him (or her) tap the barrel for a bigger screw and put it back together. I know that failure is nerve wracking, but a Redhawk can break in some unexpected way just the same.

Best wishes to you with your search.

Yea, that Screw sheered right off dropping the Ejector Housing and anything into the Gravel. Did not even noticed it until all 6 where trough Target and I wanted to drop the Empties out of the Revolver.
Don"t get me wrong, I love this Gun points & shoots like a Dream (with my "Custom" Bisley Grips) but this failure plus the all-ways very awkward finding the Cylinder hole to push out the Empties convinced me its not the Revolver I should pack for my Work in the Bush.

I am not a Big Guy (not counting my Belly) just wiry, old and Stubborn and love my Job and most of the Grizzly's around and they know me too and usually give me a with Berth. But some of them give me the Willies. There is one huge Sow must be 600 Lbs. or better probably 15+ years old, when she has young ones in tow I detour pronto.

You mention a Ruger Redhawk can break in some unexpected ways. As you said anything can break but if you know something I should before I find one and get the Plastic out I appreciate you or anybody else to tell me.

Thanks

[Mk42gunner]

I do not live in Grizzly country; in fact I can only think of one bear I have seen in the wild, a black bear in Colorado. What I am is an old retired Military Armorer that went to school when they still taught how to fix revolvers.

As I was told, for street/ combat (I think shooting a bear of any sort off the top of me constitutes combat) usage: a smooth action is good, weak springs are not.

For what you describe, I would get a stainless Redhawk. I like the 5½", never shot any of the shorter ones. I would pay someone that knows how to smooth its action, with factory weight springs. Very bad time for a misfire caused by a light hammer blow.

You know about what kind of loads you need than I ever will, the plain Redhawk should outlast your grandkids.

Robert

[Graybeard96]

A lot of good ideas thus far.

That said, my experience has been owning and shooting the Smith 629 Mountain Gun (4”), a 7.5” SS Redhawk and a 9 1/2” (SS) Super Redhawk, all in .44Mag

I traded my Super Redhawk for a 7.5” SRH in .480 Ruger .... I really like that .480!

I have shot the 329 Smith in 4” (44 Mag). If I was working and packing on my feet day in and out, I would give it serious thought. I get the part about how the gun will look, but I am more interested in how “I look” ..... as in having a less pretty gun but a more pretty me.

Back to stainless.

I have shot the Smith model 69 in 4” as one of my nephews has one. I can not tell you what it is other than grip shape but it is not very friendly in the recoil department. My Mountain Gun (629) weights just one ounce more (empty) but it is a sweet cat compared to the 69 in my opinion.

The RedHawks and Super RedHawks are plenty tough. They over shadow your Super Blackhawk. With a cylinder that is .050” longer than a SBH or the comparative Smith &Wessons you have more effective boiler room in your casings provided you chose a boolit that can take advantage of it. Fortunately Lee did just that with their ..310 gr cast boolit. Other designs are “dual” crimp groove as well. You might ask, does a mere .050” make much difference? Well yes especially when it’s housed in an “artillery piece” like a Redhawk or Super Redhawk.

Thank you for your assessment of the Redhawks, makes me feel I am on the right Path. !

Thanks again & Cheers

[Three44s]

You are welcome. I added more after you quoted my post.

Good luck on your “journey”!

Three44s

[Graybeard96]

I do not live in Grizzly country; in fact I can only think of one bear I have seen in the wild, a black bear in Colorado. What I am is an old retired Military Armorer that went to school when they still taught how to fix revolvers.

As I was told, for street/ combat (I think shooting a bear of any sort off the top of me constitutes combat) usage: a smooth action is good, weak springs are not.

For what you describe, I would get a stainless Redhawk. I like the 5½", never shot any of the shorter ones. I would pay someone that knows how to smooth its action, with factory weight springs. Very bad time for a misfire caused by a light hammer blow.

You know about what kind of loads you need than I ever will, the plain Redhawk should outlast your grandkids.

Robert

Thanks Robert, good to her from someone which knew they way it was I am one of them !
I believe I still have a .44 Lyman Mold casting a 300 Grain GC Bullet. Once I have a Redhawk or Super Redhawk I might just try them and see how they compare to the 240 Grains in a Wood Block penetration Test.

Cheers to you
Karl

[memtb]

If it is to be a new revolver ......sorry, “Go big or go home”! The Ruger in .454 Casull or either of the S&W X Frames in 5” or under version. I love my 460 X Frame.....for hunting. It’s too long (8 3/8”) for a practical bear defense gun.....though, I’d certainly not be “under gunned”! I’m presently looking for a 5” model for those hikes, scouting, and horn hunting trips! The long barrel gives good accuracy at longer ranges, and higher velocities.....neither are important at arms reach! memtb

[Bigslug]

A good friend of mine who spent much time in the Alaska boonies suggested a 9mm Glock 19 for the job, because, as he put it "It isn't for the bear"

He also suggested a handgun with the front sight removed, because when the bear inserts it where the sun don't shine, it'll hurt less.;-)

Truthfully, I don't see much advantage to .44 over .357, or .357 over 9mm for the job, provided you're sticking with heavy-ish for caliber solids that will penetrate. The goal will be to stop the bear before he folds you into a tiny origami version of your former self, and waiting around for the effects of internal bleeding to set in isn't going to help you in a short range charge. My plan would be to go for the face and hopefully thread one through his nasal channel into the gray matter.

I had a 4.25" .45 Colt/ACP round butt Redhawk on my CCW for a couple years. Carried beautifully in a DeSantis Thumb Break Scabbard, but wasn't as versatile as the 4" GP-100 .357. The S&W Mountain Gun in .44 ain't a bad choice for keeping the weight down, and with warm .44 Special-level solids would be manageable in the recoil/follow-up department.

But considering the stuff that gets humped around and the weight penalties for something you hope never gets used, I'm kinda liking that heavy 9mm solids in a Glock notion.

[Dieselhorses]

I don't bear hunt, nor do I have to worry about bear attacks (at the moment). I think we need to understand what we're shooting "at" before deciding what to shoot it "with". Here's a couple of informative sites.

https://youtu.be/yzxL9r_1IF0 (young brown bear 250 lbs.)

http://www.ballistics101.com/images/bear_images/bearshotplacement.pdf (shot placement and anatomy)

287597
https://qualityhunts.com/product/hunts/featured/brown-bear-alaska-peninsula/

[chrometip78]

I like carrying my Ruger Redhawk 4.2" 44mag when I'm walking in the woods, not going to claim it's the best bear defense option in existence but I like it. Large enough to tame recoil, not obnoxiously large getting in the way and hanging up on everything, the double action trigger pull is smooth and excellent IMO, single action is crisp but heavy, sights are good, getting it dusty/wet/scratched doesn't hurt my soul, and mine's been reliable.

[smkummer]

Yep, I would want a double action just in case I only had one hand to shoot and needed a fast shot. About 4” for easier carry but enough barrel to get the bullet moving. 44 mag. or more power level ( 45 colt plus P is fine). Often in these cases, the gun may never be needed, but of course if needed, it must perform.
Maybe more importantly, just like LEOs have to qualify, I would practice drawing from the holster and getting a accurate shot off on a bear size target facing you. Sure, use lighter loads for practice but the last practice scenario should be with carry ammo. Know your ability and limitations.

[1006]

Admittedly, I do not know much about this topic. But, just talking guns, required power, and carry convenience, I would opt for a light weight rifle, or slug gun over a heavy revolver. Maybe a 338 Federal, or in the case of a 44Mag preference: one of the Ruger carbines. I think Ruger used make a lever, a bolt, and a semi-auto.

[RJM52]

Was wondering if there is any particular load you are carrying or have to carry...

Don't have them in .44 Magnum but do have two of the above mentioned guns in .41 Magnum...the S&W Mountain Gun and Ruger Redhawk 4.2"...both are great shooters. If you are using reasonable .44 Magnum loads the Mountain Gun is great as it has nice balance and a lot of different grip options.

The Redhawk is definitely the tougher of the two but at a cost of weight and balance. It also has far less grip options...but will run 300 grain bear loads all day long.

Pair of Mountain Guns...

287598

[Lloyd Smale]

My first choice would be a 12 ga Mossberg loaded with 8 slugs in the mag and one in the chamber.

If I had to take a revolver into thick brush I would take a 4" barreled Super Redhawk in 454 Casull or 480 Ruger.

It is not a good decision to make caliber choice for protection against a grizzly based on what $45 set of dies one has.

This decision should be to carry the most knockdown energy you can carry and still shoot accurately.

im with doug. All we have here are black bears and a 44 or about anything will work on them. If i was in brown or griz territory i wouldnt be caught without a long gun period. Ive killed lots of game with 475s and 500 linebaughs. Some as big as bison. Ive had deer run off after a good hit with a 500 and watched one 1200 lb cow bison keep eating grass after i hit in behind the shoulder with a 500 shooting 480lfns at 1200 fps. I kept eating like it wasnt even hit for a good 30 seconds before it tipped over dead. PLENTY of time for a big bear to tear you limb from limb. All a handgun would be for me in big bear territory would be a back up and that said i doubt a bear is giving you time to use your back up. Id prefer 3lbs less weight on my hip when i tried to get out of dodge then to count on it saving my life. People overestimate the power of even the biggest handguns. They think there dinosaur slayers when in fact there barely equal to a black powder 4570 load in a package thats much harder to place a good shot with. a 44mag? less real world power then a 3030. A 9mm??? About like walking into a firefight armed with a 25acp. We had a charging bear target at one linebaugh seminar and just the pressure of having people watch had about 50 percent of the shooters missing the bear completely. Keep in mind those are some of the best handgun shooters in the country. I could count on my 10 fingers the number of guys who could consistently make a central nervous system hit. Now add a real bear with claws and snapping teeth and a roll of toilet paper might be better in a holster then a handgun. if your out where REAL bear dangers are likely and you dont have a long gun, good luck to you!!

[zarrinvz24]

Elmer Keith in Sixguns described a friend of his that had killed numerous black bears with a 32-20 SAA. I haven't seen anyone else discuss this, but the first consideration that should be made when choosing a firearm for self defense is one that you can make hits with, and a knowledge of anatomy (know where to put it). It isn't the sound it makes, or the size of the projectile that matters. It is the hits that count. Next up Rifle/Shotgun > any handgun. I love handguns, specifically revolvers - but I understand the limitations, and in a type of defense situation a handgun is best thought of as a means to which you fight your way back to a rifle. Wandering the woods, I would much rather carry a 12ga or 30-06 rifle. Most friends I have in Alaska carry a 12ga w/slugs.

[starnbar]

Like you Gray I am over 70 now yeah eyes and ears are not as sharp any more so I rely on my dog she is trained and stays right near me we have a hog problem here and some are pretty nasty and yes hogs will eat a person if they get em down.

[475AR]

While I haven't been in grizzly country I have several friends that do, and what they tell me is:
1) You need to be able to control and shoot accurately what ever gun you choose and you have to be able to do that fast.
2) Use a solid strong non expanding deep penatrating bullet.
3) Practice, Practice, Practice with said gun and full power ammo.
They do seem to have different opinions on how fast is fast enough and how big the target needs to be to put them in. I have seen some other people suggest 5 rounds in a 10" target @ 5yds in 3 seconds.
https://youtu.be/5F71SPRFr_Y

[Graybeard96]

Yep, I would want a double action just in case I only had one hand to shoot and needed a fast shot. About 4” for easier carry but enough barrel to get the bullet moving. 44 mag. or more power level ( 45 colt plus P is fine). Often in these cases, the gun may never be needed, but of course if needed, it must perform.
Maybe more importantly, just like LEOs have to qualify, I would practice drawing from the holster and getting a accurate shot off on a bear size target facing you. Sure, use lighter loads for practice but the last practice scenario should be with carry ammo. Know your ability and limitations.

You are raising an interesting point I never thought off. Having only on Hand available points definitely to use a DA. I practice as much as I can and because of it are quite comfortable shooting Full or near full Loads with a .44 Rem. Mag. Don't want to reerig to another Caliber, getting to old for that and don't want the extra cost and difficulty obtaining Casings and perhaps Bullets, Molds & Gaschecks.
If a Boar Grizzly is not wounded and not protecting a Kill, most charges are phony and he hits the Brakes within 10 to 15 feet of a single Guy. The bigger the Boar the less chances he will take. Sows with Cubs, all Bets are off.

Keeping your Nerves is more important then anything ! A warning shoot where he gets the full Muzzle Blast in his Face works most of the time to convince him to back off.

Cheers

[memtb]

For those that consider most any handgun is inadequate perhaps consider this. While admittedly the 45-70 in the original factory loading is not a dinosaur slayer.....it’s been pretty effective on large game for over 100 years. My handgun (8 3/8” barrel) with a 400 grain cast, wide metplat bullet has a mv about 160 or so fps higher mv than does the 45-70 with the 405 grain load. So.....I’m not giving up anything to a cartridge proven in the field!

And yes, ultimately bullet placement is always the highest priority. At point-blank, bear defense range.....shot placement will not be any better with the rifle vs handgun. In fact.....the handgun may have some advantages. Also, I’ll risk keeping the front sight in place! :bigsmyl2: memtb

[Skipper]

I think I'd use this one:
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/ftd-biggestrevo.jpg

[contender1]

For the OP;

Obviously you have your preferences,, of which,, many have chosen to not read. You want to stay with 44 mag, and have no problem with a 7-1/2" bbl. Understood.

I own a few Ruger SA's in 44 mag,, (Including a Hunter like yours,) as well as a couple of Redhawks, and Super Redhawks. Some in 44 mag, 45 Colt, & 480. I have shot them extensively.

While I agree with one poster about the necessity of a reload after firing 6 shots, most likely won't be an issue,, we also understand; "Never say never."
And the above poster about the use of one hand only,, an EXCELLENT point. I teach SD to ladies,, and express the need to be able to operate a handgun with only one hand, AND it being the "off" hand.
"Just in case."

So, studying your desires,, a DA, in 44 mag like the Rugers will fit your desires. Of the two models,, I think you will be served quite well with the Redhawk vs the Super Redhawk.
Why?
The Super was developed many years ago due to an ODD problem with a very few of the earlier Redhawks, that the Ruger engineers couldn't figure out. A very few Redhawks had the barrels separate from the frame. I know,, because one I owned was the very first one to have it happen. It took a few years of serious study before they discovered it was an assy & lube issue. Basically, the lube they were using was allowed to sit for a few weeks on barrel threads, dry, and then over torqued. it was an accidental thing, that happened during a 2 week shut down.
But they developed the Super thinking they needed to beef up the frame. This happened before they discovered the reason a few had barrel separations.

So, get you a Redhawk in .44 mag, and don't look back. It will feel different in your hands over the Hunter,, but it will be about as infallible as you can get.
PS; I have been following your issues with the Hunter in your other posts as well.

[Graybeard96]

For the OP;

Obviously you have your preferences,, of which,, many have chosen to not read. You want to stay with 44 mag, and have no problem with a 7-1/2" bbl. Understood.

I own a few Ruger SA's in 44 mag,, (Including a Hunter like yours,) as well as a couple of Redhawks, and Super Redhawks. Some in 44 mag, 45 Colt, & 480. I have shot them extensively.

While I agree with one poster about the necessity of a reload after firing 6 shots, most likely won't be an issue,, we also understand; "Never say never."
And the above poster about the use of one hand only,, an EXCELLENT point. I teach SD to ladies,, and express the need to be able to operate a handgun with only one hand, AND it being the "off" hand.
"Just in case."

So, studying your desires,, a DA, in 44 mag like the Rugers will fit your desires. Of the two models,, I think you will be served quite well with the Redhawk vs the Super Redhawk.
Why?
The Super was developed many years ago due to an ODD problem with a very few of the earlier Redhawks, that the Ruger engineers couldn't figure out. A very few Redhawks had the barrels separate from the frame. I know,, because one I owned was the very first one to have it happen. It took a few years of serious study before they discovered it was an assy & lube issue. Basically, the lube they were using was allowed to sit for a few weeks on barrel threads, dry, and then over torqued. it was an accidental thing, that happened during a 2 week shut down.
But they developed the Super thinking they needed to beef up the frame. This happened before they discovered the reason a few had barrel separations.

So, get you a Redhawk in .44 mag, and don't look back. It will feel different in your hands over the Hunter,, but it will be about as infallible as you can get.
PS; I have been following your issues with the Hunter in your other posts as well.

I appreciate your contribution which further Cements the Ruger Redhawk or Super Redhawk may be the right one for me. Finding both in a Store so I can hold them in my Hands and compare how they fit will be the next problem.

Thank's

[Graybeard96]

Thanks to all for you time and contributions. Its been an interesting Journey. I think I found the answers I was looking for and leave it at that. However if someone with a Ruger Redhawk and/or Super Redhawk in .44 Rem Mag. with a 7.5ish Barrel has any issues with the Gun, I would very much appreciate hearing about it before I purchase !

Thank's

[Three44s]

I have both the RH & SRH and they are both very good revolvers.

I have to give you my thoughts later this evening about the subtle and not so subtle differences.

I will end with this however: Many people tend to diss the SRH on ascetics, don’t fall in that trap.

Best regards

Three44s

[rockrat]

I would throw out that if you want a lightweight rifle, maybe a 500S&W or 460 S&W Big Horn armory, 454 Casull Rossi or a Rem 600 in 350 mag.

[Divil]

If I could shoot a .44 Mag loaded with good hardcast ammo that would be my first choice. Ruger Redhawk or Smith 629. However carpal tunner is being a real jerk to me and I think my ability to quickly and accurately shoot such a revolver questionable at best.

A good 8 shot .357 Ruger Redhawk or whatever .357 8 shot Smith makes these days or a (reliable) 7 shot GP 100 in .357 loaded with 200gr. Hardcast Corbon or Grizzly factory ammo. Preferably a 6 inch barrel but a 4 or
5 inch barreled revolver would be ok too.

[Char-Gar]

Hunt up an Ithaca Police Special 12 gage pump. It has an alloy action, 20" bbl and is not to heavy. These also have a decent set of open sights. Load with good slugs and cowboy up. Any revolver you could pick would be inferior to this.

[robertbank]

I will differ to a friend of mine who guided for Grizzly bear hunters for a number of years until the BC Gov't ended the Grizzly bear hunt here in BC. He now guides for folks who want to see Grizzly bears. For a rifle he carried a .338 Winchester. Gun was stainless steel and I think a Sako. For a handgun he carried a Glock 10MM. In his environment (Mine too), the Glocks only lasted one year before they rusted out. He now carries a Ruger GP-`100 in 10MM. In the NW Coastal environment stainless is the only way to go. If S&W made a 10MM auto I am sure he would have switched to that platform. The M&P series have stainless slides...Glock's don't. The advantage of the semi-auto is capacity.

He felt as I do, that the heavy handgun platforms are just to heavy to carry around and the recoil is to severe to expect fast, aimed shots. Too, you either hit the bears head or spinal column or you are in a wrestling match. To him, the handgun was his last option. While I now carry a GP-100 in 10MM loaded with 200 gr jacketed bullets I also carry a Mossberg shotgun loaded with slugs. The latter is my primary the former my secondary.

Our bears are big along the coast. Even the Black Bears seem to be larger than what I saw in Alberta. I am not overly concerned about having a bear encounter. I prefer to make enough noise to let them know I am in the area. Unless surprised or nursing a cub both species seem to want to have little to do with we humans and that is good by me.

Take Care

Bob
ps Weight is the biggest issue you want to consider and your environment the second.
pps I also know a guide who carries a 500S&W in a chest rig and can shoot it as fast as I can unload a .357mag so there you are.

[Bazoo]

You mention the shells being cumbersome to eject, unlike a colt. What you mean is, the chambers don’t line up with the ejection port automatically? One solution to this problem, is installing a free spin pawl, either a modified original or a purchased one. This allows the cylinder to turn independently of the “clicks” on the ratchet. It can turn backwards or forwards when unloading and never goes past the chamber too far to load. It also doesn’t line up perfectly at the ejection port on a click like a colt.

The ejector rod housing flying off after some use is a common occurrence with full power loads on single actions. A gunsmith can remove the screw and replace the stud. One option is to have a barrel installed with a recoil lug that keeps this from happening. I’m not sure if your barrel can be modified in this manner or if it requires a new barrel.

My point I spose, since you’ve seemed to have found a solution, is don’t rule out repairing and modifying your existing gun. Your existing gun has one thing going for it, familiarity.

[rintinglen]

People keep bringing up shotguns.

The OP is carrying an axe, a shovel, a brush axe and a chain saw. If he is to carry a long gun of any sort, he may as well stay with his .338 which he has had for years and presumably has developed a modicum of skill and certain level of trust. A loaded shotgun weighs in the neighborhood of 8 pounds and requires two hands to put in service. The revolver weighs less than half that and can be used with one hand, should the occasion arise. In my view, this is precisely the sort of situation that a handgun is for.

Yes, if all he was doing was strolling along in his dockers and Red Wings, with nothing to do save carry a gun, a rifle or shotgun would be superior, provided he was well versed in its use. But otherwise, the long gun is likely to be sitting next to the pack while he is plying his shovel, brush knife or axe, while the revolver is still on his belt. I would prefer a magnum revolver to a shovel, but others may have a different point of view.

[Graybeard96]

You mention the shells being cumbersome to eject, unlike a colt. What you mean is, the chambers don’t line up with the ejection port automatically? One solution to this problem, is installing a free spin pawl, either a modified original or a purchased one. This allows the cylinder to turn independently of the “clicks” on the ratchet. It can turn backwards or forwards when unloading and never goes past the chamber too far to load. It also doesn’t line up perfectly at the ejection port on a click like a colt.

The ejector rod housing flying off after some use is a common occurrence with full power loads on single actions. A gunsmith can remove the screw and replace the stud. One option is to have a barrel installed with a recoil lug that keeps this from happening. I’m not sure if your barrel can be modified in this manner or if it requires a new barrel.

My point I spose, since you’ve seemed to have found a solution, is don’t rule out repairing and modifying your existing gun. Your existing gun has one thing going for it, familiarity.

is installing a free spin pawl, Interesting - I never heard of such a thing but will talk to my Gunsmith about it.

The Familiarity aspect is certainly true but I also spent Days past Winter to machine a Replacement Grip out of Aluminum for this Bisley which fits me now like a Glove and is a Dream to shoot not to mention I would not have to fork out a Bundle for a new Gun.

Thanks

[Butzbach]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=287615&d=1629321469

[Three44s]

The option of upgrading your SBH is by any metric more economical and you know your existing gun.

In reference to changing to a DA, the Redhawk will have a grip angle closest to your SBH, especially with yours being Bisley. There are not the choices for grips for the Redhawk that there are for the SRH and as I recall the latter shares grips with the GP 100.

The grip frame angle with the SRH/GP100 is akin to the Smith 29/629.

Triggers: The Redhawk uses one spring for hammer strike and trigger return. The SRH/GP100/SP101 uses separate springs for each task. The significance is that in theory a SRH can have a more refined trigger pull than a Redhawk before you experience light hammer strikes.

In my experience, the same gunsmith (a good one by the way) wound up with both my RH and SRH having light strike issues. Both revolvers had better triggers but the reliability was found by using old school Federal primers due to the lighter hammer fall. The RH does have the better trigger, I guess it did not get the “memo”?

Keep in mind I just shoot the Redhawk more due to a number of factors so it is truly more broken in. Probably some factors about how much it may have been fussed around with as it was being built?

Ascetics: The Redhawk is a more handsome gun than the SRH but looks ain’t everything.

The weight is similar so that is not much of an issue.

I understand you are happy with a 7 1/2” barrel and that is not my cup of tea for a revolver to defend against a bear, but this is your choice and the good news is Ruger currently offers both models in 7 1/2”.

A great load I came with that could help transition to DA from SA that I carry a lot goes like this: I use magnum brass, primer with the Federal large pistol magnum, the bullet is my own cast from the RCBS 250K, and it gets a boot from 11.8 gr of Hodgdons HS6 powder.

Three44s

[DocSavage]

I am not a hunter but have 2 Redhawks and 1 Super Redhawk the only problem I ever had with the Redhawk is the hook that connects the hammer and main spring can break easy fix though. Haven't had a problem with the Super Redhaawk. I've had the transfer bar break on a couple of Blackhawks.

[Boogieman]

I have both a Sp101 and aGp 100 they use 2 springs the springs are the same in both guns

[Mal Paso]

I am not a hunter but have 2 Redhawks and 1 Super Redhawk the only problem I ever had is the hook that connects the hammer and main spring can break easy fix though. Haven't had a problem with the Super Redhaawk.

Yep, had that happen to me in the woods, turned the gun into a rock. Also the Redhawk is known for light primer strikes. There is Only One Spring with too little energy is devoted to the hammer. It was my first 44, I had read all the specs, thought I knew.

The S&W 629 has a better trigger which can be tuned without reducing the mainspring. 4 inch if you are in and out of vehicles but 6 inch is nicer to shoot. I've warn out a Redhawk and a 629 and I'd get the 629 again.

The Super Redhawk has 2 springs, may be more tunable, is heavier.

[Three44s]

I have both a Sp101 and aGp 100 they use 2 springs the springs are the same in both guns

Thank you! I stand corrected (previous post edited as well)

Three44s

[Thumbcocker]

People keep bringing up shotguns.

The OP is carrying an axe, a shovel, a brush axe and a chain saw. If he is to carry a long gun of any sort, he may as well stay with his .338 which he has had for years and presumably has developed a modicum of skill and certain level of trust. A loaded shotgun weighs in the neighborhood of 8 pounds and requires two hands to put in service. The revolver weighs less than half that and can be used with one hand, should the occasion arise. In my view, this is precisely the sort of situation that a handgun is for.

Yes, if all he was doing was strolling along in his dockers and Red Wings, with nothing to do save carry a gun, a rifle or shotgun would be superior, provided he was well versed in its use. But otherwise, the long gun is likely to be sitting next to the pack while he is plying his shovel, brush knife or axe, while the revolver is still on his belt. I would prefer a magnum revolver to a shovel, but others may have a different point of view.

You carry a rifle. You can wear a handgun.

[memtb]

For those that are proponents in the ability of the smaller bores as adequate “stoppers” in the advent of a bear attack....here’s something that may interest you. In the mid to late 1800’s, the 38-55 and the 44-40 were among the favorites by the buffalo hunters......”NOT”! :bigsmyl2: Their goal was to kill buffalo with the fewest shots possible. Dollars in their pockets relied upon the number of buffalo killed. They used larger bore cartridges to facilitate the quickest, most effective, most efficient cartridges available to them. If it is my life on the line and not just money....I want the same in my handgun! Just my thoughts on stopping a bear intent upon destroying you! memtb

[Three44s]

One thing about it, what you defend yourself with is your decision and those that chose to go out into wildlands can make their own minds up (provided the current laws allow it for your locale). Others with no skin in the game can freely offer opinions and advice from that vantage point.

It does not change the reality that when ever you are attacked, it will be what you actually have at your disposal at that moment that will offer any protection provided your will power and an abundance of luck is with you.

It is easy to talk about the virtues of a long gun ..... it quite another to pack one. It is a quantum leap to believe that one or anyone else can work at the same time while dragging one around for any meaningful duration.

The OP is a handgun guy, moreover a revolver guy and better still proficient with the vaunted .44 Mag and works with his hands alone in woods where Grizzlies roam.

While people with out proficiency in large bore revolvers understandably do not understand the capability of these guns and their usage, it does not change the fact that properly used, they work.

Three44s

[DocSavage]

I was just thinking why not Magnum Researh BFR in 45/70 go big or go home.

[memtb]

One thing about it, what you defend yourself with is your decision and those that chose to go out into wildlands can make their own minds up (provided the current laws allow it for your locale). Others with no skin in the game can freely offer opinions and advice from that vantage point.

It does not change the reality that when ever you are attacked, it will be what you actually have at your disposal at that moment that will offer any protection provided your will power and an abundance of luck is with you.

It is easy to talk about the virtues of a long gun ..... it quite another to pack one. It is a quantum leap to believe that one or anyone else can work at the same time while dragging one around for any meaningful duration.

The OP is a handgun guy, moreover a revolver guy and better still proficient with the vaunted .44 Mag and works with his hands alone in woods where Grizzlies roam.

While people with out proficiency in large bore revolvers understandably do not understand the capability of these guns and their usage, it does not change the fact that properly used, they work.

Three44s


Well said! The effectiveness of the .44 Mag. with proper bullets, has been proven many times in both hunting and defense situations! The effectiveness of any firearm is directly related to putting it into use. If it’s a rifle or shotgun leaned against a nearby tree while you work (camp chores, field dressing an animal, ect) it will likely be far less effective than a handgun (any handgun) on your person!

If in a high bear concentration area, and someone is concerned about potential attack ( though a low probability) the best option.....have a responsible, alert person with a powerful firearm in hand, while you perform the needed tasks at hand. A brief moment of distraction at the wrong moment in time, even if well armed, could have negative consequences! Having a good partner can be a huge plus!

With the last elk that I quartered, after dark in an area of high grizzly concentrations.....it was pretty comforting having my wife standing watch with her .338 WM. memtb

[Rainier]

Shuz made the suggestion of the thread (in my opinion) if your going to trade in your rifle for a handgun. I have a RedHawk in 44 mag and its a great gun but just shy of “heavier than a dead preacher”. I can carry the 329 PD all day and practically forget I’m wearing it. Not sure you’d want one for shooting competitions, the recoil isn’t all that pleasant because of its weight. As for durability the 329 has held up very well to the elements here in Western Washington and so far I haven’t had any top strap issues that some of the earlier guns reported.

[robertbank]

Shuz made the suggestion of the thread (in my opinion) if your going to trade in your rifle for a handgun. I have a RedHawk in 44 mag and its a great gun but just shy of “heavier than a dead preacher”. I can carry the 329 PD all day and practically forget I’m wearing it. Not sure you’d want one for shooting competitions, the recoil isn’t all that pleasant because of its weight. As for durability the 329 has held up very well to the elements here in Western Washington and so far I haven’t had any top strap issues that some of the earlier guns reported.

Your gun only has to last six more shots. Weight and size are two things some folks tend to neglect. If you can't get your 6" or 7" Redhawk/Super Redhawk out of it's holster and firing in under three seconds, you likely will be chewed on if you are wandering up here in the NW. Bear spray likely is the best option for most. Pump shotguns can be operated faster than most bolt guns from my experience and a 12 gauge slug has lots of juice. The downside of course with a shotgun it is over there when you are over here.

Fun thread for something that rarely occurs but does, never the less.

Take Care

Bob

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Be careful playing with reducing Hammer Spring tension. On one of my S&W that spring backed out by itself probably over a period of several Years and I never noticed it. Thanks God I found out at the Shooting Range.

Thank,s

I never mess with the hammer springs. But the trigger return spring can be replaced with a 13# and it makes a noticeable difference.

[fastdadio]

Not a revolver, but has anyone mentioned the Glock 20 long slide in 10mm? It's a whole lot of pistola in a light package. No denying it's reputation for reliability. Popular along the fishing streams in Alaska.
https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g20-gen4

[Jtarm]

I should have mentioned I like to stay with the Caliber .44 Remington Magnum because I am all set up in my RCBS Piggyback Reloading Outfit and preferably a 7.5" Barrel because that is what I am used to in my other DA Revolvers none of which is in Stainless Steel which is much more suitable for Day to Day use shaving in a often wet Leather Belt Holster with a Flap (similar to the original US Army Revolver Holsters of the 1880s) to prevent Dirt, Leaves and Chainsaw shavings getting onto the Gun. By Govt. Regulation I am required to carry on the Belt, no Cross draw or Shoulder Holster allowed.

Cheers

If you’re reloading .44 magnum, don’t you already have one?

I’d go with the Redhawk or Super Redhawk then.

I would want a DA, in case a bear has you on the ground you don’t have to cock.

I wouldn’t trust the durability of an S&W N-frame (or L-frame) with full-house .44 magnum loads, especially heavy bear loads.

That’s gonna be a load to pack in a hip holster. I’d go with a shorter barrel. And a .454.

[Jtarm]

I'm not an expert on shooting bears, but a few thoughts on handguns:
The gun range I go to has posted a sign that a Brown Bear sow and cub have been frequenting the range. The Wife would rather I did not get eaten by a bear so she loaned me her 329 and Diamond D chest holster. It was a pleasure to carry for 8 hours

Your WIFE loaned you HER 329[emoji50]

[murf205]

Whatever you decide on I would do lots of double action practice with milder loads. Maybe put a reduced power trigger return spring in. Unfortunate that Griz inhabit such beautiful country. They are not to be taken lightly. I have camped a few times in Griz country but prefer not to.

I have to dive in here about the springs in a double action. You might get by with adding a reduced power return spring to a S&W revolver but if you use a RedHawk (not SRH), you better leave the springs alone. I've been through this with 3 different Redhawks and all 3 failed to fire with lighter than factory springs. That "click" could be the loudest noise you ever heard in the right circumstance! A 760-7600 Rem carbine in 30-06 would be my pistol of choice. In a setting where bunny huggers or other hikers might give give you a hassel for having a rifle, a SRH with a short barrel in the caliber you have practiced with and shoot well would get the nod. It worked for a resident of Soldotna, Ak when he had to use it on one while on a walk and he was darned near in the city limits. Yeah it weighs more than a kit gun but it punches harder too. I like a cross draw but that's just me. A chest rig is popular when wading fishing in trout and salmon streams and I have dunked my 629 a couple of times in the river (along with myself) so stainless is a big plus.
Also remember that you hands may be wet. When I am in Alaska on the Kenai Peninsula in summer and fall, my hands are constantly wet from rain and my 629 S&W has the factory Hogue finger groove grip that is pretty controllable even with my off hand(left). You want to avoid super hot loads as well. The 310 Lee GC in my gun is the most accurate of all my handloads but it is a handfull with plenty of torque so practice practice practice. and be thankful you never have to use it.

[echo154]

I'm with ya Murf...I like the cross draw for my 4' mountain gun. Just more comfortable when your on a horse or ATV. I trust mine for Blackies and everything else except Griz and Brownies. I'd still carry it with a 12ga or my 45-70 guide gun as the primary in that situation ( I'm of the opinion that a handgun is there so you can fight your way to a rifle). I also have the DD chest rig for fly fishing I know it's there but it isn't a pain.

[robertbank]

Not a revolver, but has anyone mentioned the Glock 20 long slide in 10mm? It's a whole lot of pistola in a light package. No denying it's reputation for reliability. Popular along the fishing streams in Alaska.
https://us.glock.com/en/pistols/g20-gen4

Here is a Glock 10MM after a season on my friends holster. Cdn law requires Open Carry for the Wilderness Permit. The G;pcl's s;ode os not stainless. He admits he does not have time to pay as much attention to his pistol as most here would. The gun is exposed to salt water spray and the very worst wet conditions you can imagine. He replaces his pistol every year. I believe this year he may have gone to the Ruger GP-100 in 10MM. The picture does not show how badly the gun's exterior has rusted.

https://i.postimg.cc/Prf6Mj8s/7B48ZuR.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Take Care

Bob

[murf205]

Wow. that Glock looks like a battlefield relic. I am not a stainless fan as far as the appearance goes but they have their place for sure and around salt water is surely one of them.287652287653
I've had this 44 in the river a couple of times and packed it daily on the shore and in boats on the Cook Inlet and it still looks respectable.

[fastdadio]

Here is a Glock 10MM after a season on my friends holster. Cdn law requires Open Carry for the Wilderness Permit. The G;pcl's s;ode os not stainless. He admits he does not have time to pay as much attention to his pistol as most here would. The gun is exposed to salt water spray and the very worst wet conditions you can imagine. He replaces his pistol every year. I believe this year he may have gone to the Ruger GP-100 in 10MM. The picture does not show how badly the gun's exterior has rusted.

https://i.postimg.cc/Prf6Mj8s/7B48ZuR.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Take Care

Bob

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point here, but any make of firearm abused/neglected in that fashion would look the same. There's simply no excuse for that. Curious as to who's paying for these pistols that he manages to destroy on an annual basis. If he worked for me and treated my tools like that I'd fire him.

[littlejack]

:bigsmyl2:
I find it kind of ironic; The title posted, "Choice of Revolver against Grizzly Bear attack". Then, just below it, Theres the post heading of, Handgun Stopping Power Revisited. Now I don't have a dog in the fight, but with the information from each post compared to each other, it surely seems one contradics the other. If theres a debate over handguns and their cartridges stopping power on humans being marginal, it seems using one on a very big upset charging grizzly bear, wouldn't even been brought up. I have read multiple times that in many cases where a person has been shot with a handgun, they act as if nothing has happened. That is until the brain kicks in and says "crap, I've been shot". Then again, if a handgun and cartridge are effective on very big upset charging grizzly bear, why wouldn't the handgun be a good stopper on a 200 pound two legged attacker? Just thinkin out loud I guess. Back in 2003, I went on a moose hunt out of Wasilla Alaska. I did make it a point to have my S&W 57 stoked with 255 grain Ranch Dogs on top of a very stiff load of H-110. It did definitely give me a little piece of mind. Just sayin.

[Three44s]

little jack,

There are too many variables to make hard and fast predictions on human stopping power requirements, the first is: Did the defender use enough gun?

As to defending against a grizzly bear, there are way to many accounts of a grizzly or brown bear being hit decisively in a hunt (likely no Adrenalin at first) with the likes of a 338 Win Mag and the bear getting back up and executing a charge of quite a distance.

So, it would make sense to question how any handgun put a great bear down?

Well, the answer is you generally don’t!

So the key in stopping these attacking animals is to “break them down” if possible. High velocity is no advantage here, just sheer bullet weight and construction integrity. One attempts to land a heavy slug around the junction of the front shoulder blades.

With an alarmed bear, there is Adrenalin. You may not get the animal to stop before it hits you and advocates of hitting the Central Nervous system of a charging bear. If the bear pulls up for you to take it portrait, the you stand a fair chance of succeeding but other than that, breaking the animal is the best strategy.

Three44s

[Lloyd Smale]

It is easy to talk about the virtues of a long gun ..... it quite another to pack one. It is a quantum leap to believe that one or anyone else can work at the same time while dragging one around for any meaningful duration. theres this cool new invention called a sling. Funny how some will say a rifle is inconvenient yet recommend a bfr, super redhawk or a 500 smith that weights near as much as a light weight bolt or something like a guide gun and even put it in some chest holster thats no faster to get the gun into action as that rifle with a sling. . Some will say that every game animal in the world has been killed by a 44 mag. I wont argue that but thats hunting. Not facing a charging 800 lb brown bear. Maybe im off base and wrong here. Lets see. Raise your hand if youve shot ANYTHING over even 500lbs with a handgun. Lets keep it to while you were awake.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

Never shot anything close to 500 lbs. with anything.

And yes, I should have mentioned the 13# trigger return spring was in my Smith's.

[RJM52]

A rifle/shotgun may be fine while one is moving but once stopped in camp you going to be able to keep it within arms reach all the time?

Handgun wise, you don't need a cannon. From all the reports I have read anything north of 10mm works...and a lot of people have used 9mm and .357...

https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/update-handgun-or-pistol-against-bear-attack-93-cases-97-effective/

[memtb]

theres this cool new invention called a sling. Funny how some will say a rifle is inconvenient yet recommend a bfr, super redhawk or a 500 smith that weights near as much as a light weight bolt or something like a guide gun and even put it in some chest holster thats no faster to get the gun into action as that rifle with a sling. . Some will say that every game animal in the world has been killed by a 44 mag. I wont argue that but thats hunting. Not facing a charging 800 lb brown bear. Maybe im off base and wrong here. Lets see. Raise your hand if youve shot ANYTHING over even 500lbs with a handgun. Lets keep it to while you were awake.


I believe the text of this topic was best firearm when preoccupied with work or other activities. Carrying a slung rifle or shotgun while doing manual labor is pretty darn difficult to do. Weight is almost a non-issue.... a properly fitted holster keeps the handgun firmly against the body in an easily accessible position......while still allowing the user to accomplish camp tasks or other activities.

Animal over 500 pounds......yes (guessing around 1000) though I “muffed” the shot and took the animal on the next ridge with a rifle.

https://i.imgur.com/EqVailql.jpg


That was 1989, and my last attempt on a big game animal with a handgun. I was so disappointed with myself in my “screw-up”, I quit handgun hunting until very recently. Prior to the failed moose hunt, I had taken an antelope and a bear in a 3 year period. I could have taken several mule deer and elk, but wanted a trophy.....so passed on many does, cows, and lesser bucks! memtb

[Lloyd Smale]

they make pistol grip shotguns that are just as easy to have slug around your neck as some of the huge revolvers some here recommend. Your not to bright if you set up camp in griz or brown bear territory and your all alone. Again a hand raise of those who have! If i can carry a rifle all day long i sure can haul it to the bathroom with me. Believe me if i was alone in bear country (which i never would be) id never let go of my rifle except to cook and wipe my but and it would be withing grasp even doing that. Bottom line is your more apt to be struck by lightning then being attacked by a non wounded bear. Walter middy crap. I know if i was looking for advice it wouldnt be on an internet fourm with people that just talk the talk. Id ask people that actually killed big animals and not from someone who was told by someone who heard son guide on the internet giving advice that is most likely embellishing the story anyway. Add to that GETTING AWAY with killing a charging bear with something like a 10mm sure doesnt make it an intellegent thing to carry. Its more like being hungry and taking your last 5 dollars to the casino to see if you can make enough for a steak. Chances are your going to loose. Fact is most of you are going to miss. Talking about this is like some guys telling storys about how theyd do in combat that never even spent time in the service. Been on this forum since it started over 20 years ago. In that time nobody ive heard of has even had to face down a charging black bear. Same walter middys who want to think there brave because they walk in the woods where black bear live. Ive watched my ma shoe them off the back porch with a broom.

[memtb]

they make pistol grip shotguns that are just as easy to have slug around your neck as some of the huge revolvers some here recommend. Your not to bright if you set up camp in griz or brown bear territory and your all alone. Again a hand raise of those who have! If i can carry a rifle all day long i sure can haul it to the bathroom with me. Believe me if i was alone in bear country (which i never would be) id never let go of my rifle except to cook and wipe my but and it would be withing grasp even doing that. Bottom line is your more apt to be struck by lightning then being attacked by a non wounded bear. Walter middy crap. I know if i was looking for advice it wouldnt be on an internet fourm with people that just talk the talk. Id ask people that actually killed big animals and not from someone who was told by someone who heard son guide on the internet giving advice that is most likely embellishing the story anyway. Add to that GETTING AWAY with killing a charging bear with something like a 10mm sure doesnt make it an intellegent thing to carry. Its more like being hungry and taking your last 5 dollars to the casino to see if you can make enough for a steak. Chances are your going to loose. Fact is most of you are going to miss. Talking about this is like some guys telling storys about how theyd do in combat that never even spent time in the service. Been on this forum since it started over 20 years ago. In that time nobody ive heard of has even had to face down a charging black bear. Same walter middys who want to think there brave because they walk in the woods where black bear live. Ive watched my ma shoe them off the back porch with a broom.

I have both.....the “huge” revolver to which you refer and a slung, pistol grip Winchester Defender shotgun. The holstered handgun is much more practical and comfortable to work with than would be the shotgun. My X Frame is for hunting (8 3/8” barrel) not for a defense firearm. If I were choosing a handgun for defense use, it would 5” or less barrel length for much better portability, comfort and practicality, but the X Frame would still be high on the list of potential handguns! memtb

[robertbank]

LLoyd if your guide comment was aimed at me I should point out I have tested said guide for his wilderness Permit on two occasions. I know of nobody up here who would suggest a pistol grip shotgun. Have you ever tried to use one, under stress accurately. I didn't think so.

BC Forest personnel carry Remingtoin 12 gauge with slugs and Bear Spray. The shotigun because it can be fired faster than a bolt gun under most circumstances. They must qualify with their shotguns annually and the locals do so on our range. One of the targets is a motorized charging bear target. Personally I have less faith in the bear spray than I do with my ability with a handgun but not everyone up here shoots handguns. If the folks who I know who have Wilderness Permits for work take the test with a 44 Mag (629 4.2"). One bush pilot I tested before he died used a 460 S&W 5" with a comp. He used his to kill a Grizzly in the Yukon that had become a "Camp Bear". One shot in the head at about 15 yards. He carried the revolver in a belt rig to qualify (rules), but used a chest rig when flying I "suspect". (Cdn for "know"). One fellow last year used a Ruger Redhawk in 44mag. Notice they are all stainless guns.

These threads are interesting and for most here I suspect academic. US Citizens wont be carrying a handgun in BC or the Yukon under any circumstance but most or what is mentioned here would apply to the Western States and Alaska.

Take Care

Bob
ps I getting to the point where mobility is an issue so I don't spend a lot of time walking trails and hiking around my fishing spots anymore. I do qualify for my Wilderness Permit still just because I can. I do some testing when called upon. (Two to three a year).

[murf205]

I am a fan of the rifle myself for the power and final word it puts on a situation like a bear attack but if you can split firewood whith one slung over your shoulder without having it beat the bejesus out of you or sliding off, I've got to see it. If you want dry clothes, you have to have wood for our stove. Bear spray- good to have but if the wind is blowing you might get a face full and the bears have no time out whistle! A neighbor was going the the mailbox a few yrs ago and a bear bit him pretty good while just walking down a dirt (what else) road. Probably a sow with cubs close by. He now carries a Ruger SBH 44 to get the mail. Bottom line is make noise and you Probably.... wont have a problem but it does happen. Practice Practice Practice with whatever you wag around so muscle memory takes over when the SHTF!

[robertbank]

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point here, but any make of firearm abused/neglected in that fashion would look the same. There's simply no excuse for that. Curious as to who's paying for these pistols that he manages to destroy on an annual basis. If he worked for me and treated my tools like that I'd fire him.

I wish we al lived and worked in the sasme environment bit we don't. The guide in question is responsible for his guests, running up fjords in high speed supply boats sitting for hours in damp rainy conditions waiting for the elusive prey. Frankly he doesn't have time to sit down in his den in the evening and meticulously take Q tips to his favourite blaster. Coming off a 16KN run up or down a salt water fjord he might have time to rinse his Glock out in a fresh water stream before seeing to his guests creature comforts. That is his reality, I doubt yours so yes there is an excuse for not taking apart his gun nightly. We akk know stainless guns will rust ovfer time. Not as quickly as carbon steel but they will corrode. I am not at all sure why Glock does not offer it's slides with stainless steel slides. I posted the picture to illustrate the fact the Glock is not as indestructible as some would believe. The gun in question looks bad but it was functionable and it was replaced at the end of the season. I do know he was looking at the Ruger GP-100 in 10MM as a possible replacement to the Glock. Not sure uf he made the move or just accepted the fact the life expectancy of his handgun would be one season on the north coast.

Take Care

Bob

[Larry Gibson]

Last i was in Alaska I was conducting training for the Strykers at Fort Greely and Wainwright using ethnic role players. Much of this was conducted out in the field training areas where moose and Grizz are also. As the managers we had vicariously liability to protect the role players. I wore a 4" Colt Anaconda 44 Magnum and sometimes carried my M70 three six bits also but mostly it was in the support van which was always close by. One training session was during moose season and the bullets were rutting and fighting. Came within 25 yards of several who were standing their ground but was able to back off without incident. Saw a couple grizz one morning out across the river bed in the impact area. Saw quite bit of fresh sign initially in the training area but with the noise the Stryker vehicles make along with the gunfire and explosion's of the action most of the moose and any grizz moved out of the training area. Still, I always wore the Colt.

Carried hard cast 429244s over 23 gr H110 which pushed at 1200 fps.

287678

[littlejack]

Thre44s
Seems to me that a lot of your reply to my post, applies to both handgun stopping power on two legged attackers, and big four legged bears. You stated, that there were to many variables against defending against a person. Now, I have never went up against neither a human, or any dangerous game, including any bear. I absolutely would not want to go up against a big bear at all, no matter what I was carrying. To many variables, right. Including the fact that I would first be fertilizing the ground under my feet. I am not a real brave person, my personality will not allow it. I don't know how many big bears you have confronted and killed, but I liked the breaking down part you mentioned. I went to Wasilla Alaska in 2017 to visit my cousin. He had booked us a fishing trip on the Kenai River. While floating down the river, our guide who was s good friend of my cousins, talked about himself and hunting partner walking up on a small 300 pound +/- grizzly while hunting moose. The guide was carrying a 338 Win. Mag. He only had time to raise his rifle to his hip and fire. He hit it squarely in the chest before the bear was on top of him. He took quite a bit of damage before his partner could get in a position to kill it. Needless to say, that stopped it hunt. So much for the breaking down part, eh? Must have been a lot of those variable you mentioned about enough power to stop humans. Ok, I'm not trying to argue with you about the issue. Just saying variables work in both situations. So, if a person 200 pound gets hit with a 380, and a 500 pound grizzly gets hit with a 44 magnum, which one will have the best outcome? To many variables. :kidding:

[murf205]

"the gunfire and explosion's of the action most of the moose and any grizz moved out of the training area".
Larry, that's a good idea. Maybe we should ditch the handgun idea and carry artillery simulators, LOL. They are pretty loud.

[Larry Gibson]

"the gunfire and explosion's of the action most of the moose and any grizz moved out of the training area".
Larry, that's a good idea. Maybe we should ditch the handgun idea and carry artillery simulators, LOL. They are pretty loud.

Arty sims aren't near as loud as the pyrotecs we used to simulate IEDs.......especially to simulate knocking out a Stryker.......

Sometimes we'd put a command detonated pyrotec really close to the road. Then had our training aide RPGs fitted with a Roman Candle electrically fired by the trigger.
Hadji would lean out from cover (so the Strykers could ID it as an RPG) and shoot the roman candle. The strykers eyes got big a saucers.....then, when the roman candle bounced off the Stryker ....BOOM.....I'd detonate the pyro.......:awesome:

Was very good training for the Strykers and they always appreciated the realism we provided.

[LeonardC]

robertbank: I really enjoy your posts. In one you talked about taking the test and I thought it required 6 rounds in X time; did your guide friend with the .460 do a speed reload? I was thinking when I read the test post that it's strange they would count out the 500 (me thinking it'd be hard to get off the 6 shots in the required itme); I have a speed loader for it, but have never tried to use it in a timed event.

Can you discribe your charging bear set up?

The bear targets I've seen (Action Targets) is 23x35 paper with a 10 3/4" score ring.

[Three44s]

Thre44s
Seems to me that a lot of your reply to my post, applies to both handgun stopping power on two legged attackers, and big four legged bears. You stated, that there were to many variables against defending against a person..........

Yes, there are a lot of variables involved with defense, whether it’s with a wild animal or a human attacker.

I have not had to defend against either.

I had a potential dangerous condition where the apex predator left the area where I graze cattle before I even knew it was about our lands but had a first hand account from people who know a grizzly and re-confirmed its sign after the encounter a day or so later.

I took the incident very seriously and did a lot of research as to what I needed to do about the matter. I already owned plenty of long guns, rifled and smoothbore and a handgun or two. I came to the conclusion that no long gun would likely be available if the worst, a charge happened.

It’s one thing to walk around with a long gun slung on my back. It’s quite another to WORK with one slung on one’s back.

I have no more desire than you do to get mixed up in such a mess, but just in case I did despite best efforts, I wanted to increase my odds of surviving such an encounter.

My most likely scenario would be out riding a horse when the mess started. I could have a long gun on the horse, but I am no rodeo star and the typical cow pony will get real excited. The last thing I want to see on Gods Green Earth is my only tool for self defense going out of sight still on the horse while I am dumped off preparing to become a bears rag doll.

But a long gun leaning against a tree or fence post and out of reach while working on my feet is just as bad.

After I made a decision to upgrade my handgun Arsenal, I had to decide WHAT gun I was choosing.

A good barely used .44 Mag Ruger Redhawk SS with a 7.5” barrel showed up in my favorite gun shop. I brought it home and began to shoot factory loads in it. I am not a gluten for punishment and handloading and shooting cast boolits became my salvation with that robust cartridge. A well used S&W K frame in 22 LR Rimfire rounded out my education process.

That was in April ‘97.

I realized that for my taste I wanted to find a revolver with a 4” barrel for strong side carry to take the place of the long barreled Ruger. The Smith Mountain Gun in 44 was hot on the scene and one followed me home in November ‘98.

An even longer barreled Ruger in SRH followed me home in Y2K. I wanted it for a barrel chop project. I found for my taste the Smith was the gun you found the bear with, and either of the Rugers were up to the task if you knew where the bear was!

The OP started this thread expressly to decide which 44 Mag DA revolver would best suit his needs. He is a confirmed big bore six gunner. If he wanted a debate about long guns, he would have and still could usher on in, but he did not.

A confirmed big bore six gunner understands that you do not just center mass a mad bear with any gun, be it a long gun or a short one. You break them down. The term has a specific meaning. A chest hit with the heaviest rifle is not a break down hit.

Breaking a front shoulder is the specific term for a break down shot.

Your .41 is quite capable of that shot but I prefer the 44 and really now, my 480 Ruger. I know the .41, I own two of them but I prefer bigger.

If you can break a front shoulder of a bear it has some serious mobility issues. It’s a also one of the few zones on a bear that’s more hittable compared to other more recognizable parts that one could aim at during a charge. You aim the hump and don’t be fussy about which shoulder takes the damage.

We are blessed with choices and anyone who can do serious work while packing a long gun, just knock yourself out. I will cheer your dedication.

I decided that practice upon practice and perseverance with my .44 mags would get me to where I could feel enough confidence in them as potential life saving tools. It looks like the OP feels that way as well.

Three44s

[littlejack]

I understand what you're saying, and agree with some. But, getting the perfect situation to be able to defend ones self, comes as a small percentage of what probably will happen if attacked by either predator or human attacker. I'm sure that the guide I wrote about would have really appreciated coming up on his grizzly, without the bear noticing him at all and standing broad side to provide the perfect breakdown shot. Didn't happen. So, I guess my bottom line is, it probably wouldn't matter what handgun that bear was shot with. If the bear took a solid frontal hit with a 338 round, I don't believe the same hit from a 480, would have had any different outcome.
Anyway, I'll really try my best to not ever put myself in any scenario with a big mad predator. That way I won't ever have to worry about it. Thanks for the friendly "verbal jousting"
Regards

[9mmskng]

Having HAD a S&W 25/45Colt, and currently a Redhawk 44mag, definitely stick with the 44mag, 45Colt isn't magnum force, factory, or handloads. I recently acquired a vintage Redhawk 44mag/7.5"bbl, Stainless, seems it would be ideal for your purpose, in a chest holster, or backpack.

[littlejack]

Woah, that's gonna open up a big can of worms. :guntootsmiley:
S&W's weren't made to take the constant abuse of heavy loads.
Stoke that 45 up in a Redhawk.

[echo154]

Here is the thing...we are talking a cheesed of grizzly, your already toast....anything short of a 44 is gonna cheese him off.......I call LAWS!

[downzero]

Having HAD a S&W 25/45Colt, and currently a Redhawk 44mag, definitely stick with the 44mag, 45Colt isn't magnum force, factory, or handloads. I recently acquired a vintage Redhawk 44mag/7.5"bbl, Stainless, seems it would be ideal for your purpose, in a chest holster, or backpack.

Let me know when you get a 300 grain bullet to nearly 1300 fps out of a 4" 44 magnum. When you do, I'll believe your claims that 45 Colt isn't "magnum force." Or simply consult a reloading manual--there are book 45 Colt loads that exceed anything a 44 Magnum can do. They just can't be shot out of a S&W.


Woah, that's gonna open up a big can of worms. :guntootsmiley:
S&W's weren't made to take the constant abuse of heavy loads.
Stoke that 45 up in a Redhawk.

They don't call it the "Ruger Only" page for nothing!

[DougGuy]

Arty sims aren't near as loud as the pyrotecs we used to simulate IEDs.......especially to simulate knocking out a Stryker.......

Sometimes we'd put a command detonated pyrotec really close to the road. Then had our training aide RPGs fitted with a Roman Candle electrically fired by the trigger.
Hadji would lean out from cover (so the Strykers could ID it as an RPG) and shoot the roman candle. The strykers eyes got big a saucers.....then, when the roman candle bounced off the Stryker ....BOOM.....I'd detonate the pyro.......:awesome:

Was very good training for the Strykers and they always appreciated the realism we provided.

This actually sounds like a whole lot more fun than hunting!

[44MAG#1]

Eight more posts and there will be as many posts as there are in the thread "Handgun Stopping Power"

[robertbank]

robertbank: I really enjoy your posts. In one you talked about taking the test and I thought it required 6 rounds in X time; did your guide friend with the .460 do a speed reload? I was thinking when I read the test post that it's strange they would count out the 500 (me thinking it'd be hard to get off the 6 shots in the required time); I have a speed loader for it, but have never tried to use it in a timed event.

Can you describe your charging bear set up?

The bear targets I've seen (Action Targets) is 23x35 paper with a 10 3/4" score ring.

Bill used speed loaders to do a reload when required to do so. He was about 5'6" tall and weighed no more than 165lbs and managed the 460. I declined an offer to shoot six rounds through it. Hurt is hurt and after my experience shooting one round out of a 500S&W a few years earlier my memory was fresh enough to remember...hurt is hurt! The Wilderness Test only uses statice targets with an 18" diameter scoring ring. You must get 18 rds into three targets set at 5, 10 and 15 yards. The rounds are shot in strings.

The charging bear target, used by the Forestry folks for their requalification was just a large cardboard bear mounted on lath attached to an electric driven four wheel cart arrangement. From watching the Forestry Officers it was quite challenging. I do not know what the pass/fail level was but it certainly was realistic. It was shot with their shotguns using slugs . It was timed, and the start position was from the low ready position. The whole idea was to ensure the officers were proficient in the use of their shotguns. The target is also run horizontally. The range surface is not smooth so you can imagine the effect of the bumpy ground would have on a mounted target. Beyond that I am not sure how they were scored by the examiner ir indeed if they were scored at all. That cemented my belief that a large heavy handgun mounted in any kind of chest/belt holster was not going to do much for most if a surprise visit from Whinny the Poo were to occur.

Smith brought out their 629 in a 2" for their Alaskan market, which would be my choice if the barrel length was legal here and I could handle the recoil, which I can't. Right now I have two options, both work for me. a) 4.2"/105.14MM Ruger GP-100/686 Smith loaded with 200 gr RN or b) a 4.2" Ruger GP-100 40 S&W loaded with 200 gr plated. I have a 12 gauge Mossberg Defender in stainless steel with five slugs as a primary. I don't get out as much as I once did but that is what I shoot well with, practice with and can manage well. If you can draw and shoot the big guns fast then fill your boots. I can't so I don't bother with them.

I should add my 686 is a former US Customs/FBI gun with the FBI Mod to the cylinder. It was deemed to be a 4" (102MM) gun but carries a 105.14MM barrel. This makes the gun restricted up here not Prohibitive. I bet you feel safer knowing the gun has a barrel .14MM longer than 105MM which is the length the barrel must exceed to only be restricted. :>). I know of four other US CS guns all of which have barrels slightly greater than 105MM. If anyone on this site has one of the 686 No Das US Custom Service handguns it would interesting to hear if their barrels are greater than 105MM.

I apologize for any confusion I may have caused between the Wilderness Permit testing and the drills the Forestry folks go through.

Take Care

Bob

[Three44s]

Let me know when you get a 300 grain bullet to nearly 1300 fps out of a 4" 44 magnum. When you do, I'll believe your claims that 45 Colt isn't "magnum force." Or simply consult a reloading manual--there are book 45 Colt loads that exceed anything a 44 Magnum can do. They just can't be shot out of a S&W.



They don't call it the "Ruger Only" page for nothing!

Knowing what I know now, I could have gone with a .45 LC in a shortened Redhawk and been very well served.

However, the OP is very invested in .44 Mag and wants to remain with that cartridge.

Now, let’s take it up another notch, as my top baby is the .480 in a 7.5” SRH. I have the Mihech mold with pins to do upto 420 gr slugs and the RCBS that weighs in around 400 plus.

Going above that to the likes of the Linebaughs costs a bunch more dollars so I liken my 480 as a “Poor boy Linebaugh”!

Three44s

[Thumbcocker]

Eight more posts and there will be as many posts as there are in the thread "Handgun Stopping Power"

Bear attacks and gunfights always get long threads.

[memtb]

Bear attacks and gunfights always get long threads.

Imagine the number of potential posts if the topic were “Gunfights with Bears! :bigsmyl2: memtb

[Thumbcocker]

It is not new. I read an article from the 1950's where the author opined that based on interest it would seem that all pistol shooters worried about were gunfights and bear attacks. His article went on to praise surplus. 32 acp pistols for woods bumming guns.

Here the op has a legitimate need. Since I have never been in a gunfight or attacked by a bear or gunfought a bear I have not had much to say on the topic.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[memtb]

It is not new. I read an article from the 1950's where the author opined that based on interest it would seem that all pistol shooters worried about were gunfights and bear attacks. His article went on to praise surplus. 32 acp pistols for woods bumming guns.

Here the op has a legitimate need. Since I have never been in a gunfight or attacked by a bear or gunfought a bear I have not had much to say on the topic.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

I rest my case, an article written in the 1950’s.....and it’s still being talked about! :bigsmyl2: memtb

[DougGuy]

Eight more posts and there will be as many posts as there are in the thread "Handgun Stopping Power"

And the bottom line in both threads??? BIGGER *IS* BETTER! Now, was that so hard to figure out that we used up how many posts and STILL haven't arrived at the red ink?

It's also obvious that this isn't the OP's first foray into griz country, and nowhere near his first griz kill (by his own bragging), and the decision to stay with 44 magnum 7 1/2" is set in stone, I would say this is nothing more than a troll post.

[littlejack]

Lol, It worked. :happy dance:

[Beerd]

anything to pad my post count
..

[downzero]

And the bottom line in both threads??? BIGGER *IS* BETTER! Now, was that so hard to figure out that we used up how many posts and STILL haven't arrived at the red ink?

It's also obvious that this isn't the OP's first foray into griz country, and nowhere near his first griz kill (by his own bragging), and the decision to stay with 44 magnum 7 1/2" is set in stone, I would say this is nothing more than a troll post.

As much as it wouldn't be my choice, a 7.5" .42 magnum would do the job just fine.

[LeonardC]

Troll or not, I always enjoy these threads and often pick up a bit of information or hear about someone's experience with such things.

In my world I substitue "Moose" for "Bear" as we come close to them fairly often.

[jonp]

As much as it wouldn't be my choice, a 7.5" .42 magnum would do the job just fine.

Where did you pick up a 42 Mag?

[jonp]

A moose is a large deer and not particularly hard to put down. A charging grizzly on the other hand would be terrifying. A 44mag is great, a 45LC using Linebaugh loads better. A 454 or 460 loaded as hard as you can stand even better but in any case be prepared for damage.

I have read about some carrying a 10mm and it makes sense throwing as much lead as possible downrange and hoping for the best. I diubt many on this sight or anywhere for that matter have the training or backbone to sling lead till till the bear hits you.

I have never faced a charging brown/griz and hope never to without a 12g throwing mag slugs or a 50cal full auto

[downzero]

Where did you pick up a 42 Mag?

44 Magnum is a byproduct of the earlier healed bullet era, called 44 but actually .429. Since I round my .452 Colt (I guess originally .454) to .45, I do the same for 44 Magnum.

After I discovered the Ruger only 45 Colt page, I wondered why 44 Magnum was ever even invented.

[littlejack]

[smilie=s:
I've heard the .44 referred to as the .43 Magnum. I think I would go with that, if were rounding up numbers.

[robertbank]

I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point here, but any make of firearm abused/neglected in that fashion would look the same. There's simply no excuse for that. Curious as to who's paying for these pistols that he manages to destroy on an annual basis. If he worked for me and treated my tools like that I'd fire him.

I wish we al lived and worked in the same environment but we don't. The guide in question is responsible for his guests, running up fjords in high speed supply boats sitting for hours in damp rainy conditions waiting for the elusive prey. Frankly he doesn't have time to sit down in his den in the evening and meticulously take Q tips to his favourite blaster. Coming off a 16K run up or down a salt water fjord he might have time to rinse his Glock out in a fresh water stream before seeing to his guests creature comforts. That is his reality, I doubt yours so yes there is an excuse for not taking apart his gun nightly. We akk know stainless guns will rust ovfer time. Not as quickly as carbon steel but they will corrode. I am not at all sure why Glock does not offer it's slides with stainless steel slides. I posted the picture to illustrate the fact the Glock is not as indestructible as some would believe. The gun in question looks bad but it was functionable and it was replaced at the end of the season. I do know he was looking at the Ruger GP-100 in 10MM as a possible replacement to the Glock. Not sure uf he made the move or just accepted the fact the life expectancy of his handgun would be one season on the north coast.

Take Care

Bob

[LeonardC]

A moose is a large deer and not particularly hard to put down.

OK...I don't think I'll risk my well being on that thought.

[jonp]

they make pistol grip shotguns that are just as easy to have slug around your neck as some of the huge revolvers some here recommend. Your not to bright if you set up camp in griz or brown bear territory and your all alone. Again a hand raise of those who have! If i can carry a rifle all day long i sure can haul it to the bathroom with me. Believe me if i was alone in bear country (which i never would be) id never let go of my rifle except to cook and wipe my but and it would be withing grasp even doing that. Bottom line is your more apt to be struck by lightning then being attacked by a non wounded bear. Walter middy crap. I know if i was looking for advice it wouldnt be on an internet fourm with people that just talk the talk. Id ask people that actually killed big animals and not from someone who was told by someone who heard son guide on the internet giving advice that is most likely embellishing the story anyway. Add to that GETTING AWAY with killing a charging bear with something like a 10mm sure doesnt make it an intellegent thing to carry. Its more like being hungry and taking your last 5 dollars to the casino to see if you can make enough for a steak. Chances are your going to loose. Fact is most of you are going to miss. Talking about this is like some guys telling storys about how theyd do in combat that never even spent time in the service. Been on this forum since it started over 20 years ago. In that time nobody ive heard of has even had to face down a charging black bear. Same walter middys who want to think there brave because they walk in the woods where black bear live. Ive watched my ma shoe them off the back porch with a broom.

Living in your neck of the woods you are quite familiar with bears as am I in my part of New England. In 50yrs or so of easing through the woods I've seen exactly 1 bear and that one was within 20ft while I was sitting on a stump deer hunting. Your comment about lightening is spot on. My woods carry handgun is either my Ruger Single Six or a SW 38/357. Wife carries a Chiefs Special when berrying and we both rely on keeping our heads up and paying attention.

[jonp]

Here is a Glock 10MM after a season on my friends holster. Cdn law requires Open Carry for the Wilderness Permit. The G;pcl's s;ode os not stainless. He admits he does not have time to pay as much attention to his pistol as most here would. The gun is exposed to salt water spray and the very worst wet conditions you can imagine. He replaces his pistol every year. I believe this year he may have gone to the Ruger GP-100 in 10MM. The picture does not show how badly the gun's exterior has rusted.

https://i.postimg.cc/Prf6Mj8s/7B48ZuR.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Take Care

Bob

One season? Wow, I didn't think that short a period would do that. Has he tried carrying a silicone rag in a bag like the Birchwood Casey? I'd do that and wipe it down every night if I couldn't clean it. I'd think something I depend on to save my life would be worth taking the slide off and spraying the inside with WD40 everyday if nothing else.

[Lloyd Smale]

I understand what you're saying, and agree with some. But, getting the perfect situation to be able to defend ones self, comes as a small percentage of what probably will happen if attacked by either predator or human attacker. I'm sure that the guide I wrote about would have really appreciated coming up on his grizzly, without the bear noticing him at all and standing broad side to provide the perfect breakdown shot. Didn't happen. So, I guess my bottom line is, it probably wouldn't matter what handgun that bear was shot with. If the bear took a solid frontal hit with a 338 round, I don't believe the same hit from a 480, would have had any different outcome.
Anyway, I'll really try my best to not ever put myself in any scenario with a big mad predator. That way I won't ever have to worry about it. Thanks for the friendly "verbal jousting"
Regards Id guess the outcome would have been a bit different. bear might have lived another 60 seconds. Plenty of time to insure that guide was dead.

[Lloyd Smale]

Living in your neck of the woods you are quite familiar with bears as am I in my part of New England. In 50yrs or so of easing through the woods I've seen exactly 1 bear and that one was within 20ft while I was sitting on a stump deer hunting. Your comment about lightening is spot on. My woods carry handgun is either my Ruger Single Six or a SW 38/357. Wife carries a Chiefs Special when berrying and we both rely on keeping our heads up and paying attention.

yup id say 99.9 percent of the bear you see around here will only let you look at there buts running away. When i walk my dog my bear stopper is a lcp ruger. Mosty for the two legged tourist that invade this area and even camp on private land. Secondly for wolves. A wolf is territorial and will go after a dog invading there territory where a bear will look for the next county when he sees one. 15 years ago when we had no wolves i didnt even bother carrying a gun. Yes black bear arent the same as griz and browns. with them you might only see the but running away 98 percent of the time. Sure would make it great for someone who paid his 10k to hunt one if bears really hunted man. Id bet guides get a good chuckle out of guys showing up with there back up 500 smith in a chest holster. About the same as the guy who shows up to the range with his ar15 wearing full camos, even a headband spouting off about he cant wait till russia attacks. WALTER MIDDY. I sometimes wish bears would attack. 3/4s of the people out hiking are liberal new green deal types anyway.

[Three44s]

Fortunately we live in a country that allows us to pack heat in most parts of it.

We are even allowed to chose an LCR as our “bear stopper” but not on my account.

I was basically dragged into large bore revolvers. I was raised by a father that had no use for handguns and thought the same way myself for years. But the grizzly bear that wandered in to our cattle range caused me to set about a deep search for a solution that could save my life if the worst happened.

Thanks to handloading (and casting) I brought myself through a complete reversal in regards to what handguns large and powerful were capable of in the hands of willing folks. I do not count my skill as anything exceptional, but I did task myself to an above average degree of practice and living on a ranch certainly had exceptional access to my “Lead Bank”......... and it paid off!

While there are those who practice with full power loads, I did only to a point. I load several power levels from just above factory .44 Special levels all the way to Max.

Those who continue to swoon over how they would defend themselves in the parameters of this thread, that of working from the ground (alone) with their hands to instantly go into defense mode against a grizzly bear with their long gun slung over their back?

I have lost count of how many real world attacks by bears that has been reported and not just grizzlies, where the bear was a few feet or less away from the victim before they knew it was even nearby and the next second, the bear has that target pinned on the ground.

The victim has a (often) difficult time accessing their handgun, much less a long gun slung over their back.

Importantly, these accounts were often woods wise folks out hiking and watching out for danger, not working and focusing as much for a bear they may have wandered in to.

So like I repeat, go with your LCR’s or your long gun’s or your bear spray and I (and others) will do it our/my way.

Three44s

[44MAG#1]

" So like I repeat, go with your LCR’s or your long gun’s or your bear spray and I (and others) will do it our/my way. " ]

Kinda like the "Handgun Stopping Power" thread. Everyone does it their way.

[Graybeard96]

Was wondering if there is any particular load you are carrying or have to carry...

Don't have them in .44 Magnum but do have two of the above mentioned guns in .41 Magnum...the S&W Mountain Gun and Ruger Redhawk 4.2"...both are great shooters. If you are using reasonable .44 Magnum loads the Mountain Gun is great as it has nice balance and a lot of different grip options.

The Redhawk is definitely the tougher of the two but at a cost of weight and balance. It also has far less grip options...but will run 300 grain bear loads all day long.

Pair of Mountain Guns...

287598

Thanks for asking,
They way the Rules are in my parts. One has to qualify under Supervision by a specially licensed Examiner. The Shooter has to put 6 Rounds into a 9" Radius at 5 Meters, 10 Meters and 15 Meters. Each one in 18 Seconds. The Shells must be the same Load then the Shooter will use in the Bush which in my case is full Power Loads pushing a 240 Grain Lead GC Slug. Gun must be carried on Belt, no cross Draw or Shoulder Holster allowed. Gun must be secured in the Holster by 2 separate Buttons. If a shot is fired in the Bush, it must be reported asap and investigation begins. While I am maintaining Trails I am usually by myself, next Person probably at least 60 miles away.

Thanks

[Graybeard96]

You mention the shells being cumbersome to eject, unlike a colt. What you mean is, the chambers don’t line up with the ejection port automatically? One solution to this problem, is installing a free spin pawl, either a modified original or a purchased one. This allows the cylinder to turn independently of the “clicks” on the ratchet. It can turn backwards or forwards when unloading and never goes past the chamber too far to load. It also doesn’t line up perfectly at the ejection port on a click like a colt.

The ejector rod housing flying off after some use is a common occurrence with full power loads on single actions. A gunsmith can remove the screw and replace the stud. One option is to have a barrel installed with a recoil lug that keeps this from happening. I’m not sure if your barrel can be modified in this manner or if it requires a new barrel.

My point I spose, since you’ve seemed to have found a solution, is don’t rule out repairing and modifying your existing gun. Your existing gun has one thing going for it, familiarity.

Thank you for your contribution. Meanwhile I managed to get the broken portion of the Stud out and awaiting replacement Studs. I am also considering Gluing the Ejector Housing onto the Barrel in addition to the new Stud Locktited in.

Today I talked to a Gunsmith regarding the "Pawl" you mention. Unfortunately he does not have any information/Supplier on that. If you still have that Information please share it with us and/or send me a PM. Thank you very much in advance.

K.

[littlejack]

Greybeard96
I know exactly what you're talking about, with the empty cases being cumbersome to eject. I have a SBH Hunter in .41 Magnum, that is one of my range toys. After opening the loading gate and rotating the cylinder to the audible click, the chamber has rotated to far and is not lined up with the ejector rod. As you know, the cylinder will no back up. So, you have to rotate the cylinder another 360° to get back to that particular chamber. Mine is scoped, so that adds to it being awkward lying in my right hand, and using the ejector rod to push out the empties with my left. I never had any issues of that sort with my first Ruger BH. In the hypothetical situation you're contemplating that "may" happen, I think reloading is going to be the least of your worries. Not trying to underplay, or make lite of your situation, but just trying to be realistic.
Good luck with your endeavor.

[echo154]

I gotta say...a lot of my female friends ask me about what handgun to get........to most I say bear spray....most will use rather than trying to shoot some intruder who ends up taking the gun. I also recommend the books "On Killing and On Combat by Lt. Col. Grossman! Most people are willing to use non-lethal than lethal. I was a cop for 30 years and never hesitated in the use of lethal force as apposed to me dying. In the shootist, John Wayne, stated it wasn't a matter of "willingness" to kill that caused a man to die, rather hesitation. I wholeheartedly agree. As for the pepper spray "FOR BEARS".....I hold them in higher esteem than street thugs, it is a great easily accessible option. I've used it on dogs and hogs to great effect. My choice is based on the ability to carry in areas where handguns are not allowed. I do not recommend the spray as the only defense, where allowed I would prefer a 45-70 marlin or 12 ga with slugs and a 44 mag as the starting point(brownies) or 45 colt at Ruger velocities

[robertbank]

Greybeard96not to nit pick while the holster must be worn on the belt the retention requirement is not two buttons. It is "holster means a holster that can be worn on a belt or attached to a body and that is equipped with a fastening device that can securely hold a firearm". A flap or strap meets this requirement. You must use the ammunition you intend to carry with you in the bush.

For BC A total of 18 rds are fired at an 18" diameter circle (9" Radius) at 5m 10 and 15 meters. You must score a minimum of 15 rds out of 18 on each target. Each target is shot in two strings. The first is 6 rds in 20 seconds freestyle. The 2nd string is 6 rds, reload and 6 rounds in 20 seconds freestyle. This is repeated on each target. The test is really not that difficult if you have any experience with a handgun.

That is the test. There are companies in BC who charge up to $500. Their courses should bring a casual shooter up to the Provincial requirement. For those who are experienced shooters there are a couple of us who will do the testing for a small fee to cover our time and incidental expenses.

Demand is not all that great. Over the past 20 years I have had five individuals request the testing either for their initial test or to requalify. The permit is either for one or two years depending on the fee paid ($40. per annum) to the government.

Minimum caliber is .357mag.

Testing may be different in your area. The holster requirement should be the same.

With the Grizzly Bear hunt now cancelled in BC I suspect you will see more cases of bear incidents and bear encounters. Black Bears are timid and usually don't want anything to do with humans. Introduce a female with a cub in tow and things sometimes can get interesting so too and old hungry bear. Grizzlies as you know can be indifferent or aggressive at their pleasure. My son carries bear spray when he hikes our trails.

Take Care

Bob

[Three44s]

My revolvers cost too much for me to let a bear take them away and bear spray moves with the wind, I do not want the risk of an uncooperative breeze.

I am glad I deal in lead!

Three44s

[Three44s]

“For BC A total of 18 rds are fired at an 18" diameter circle (9" Radius) at 5m 10 and 15 meters. You must score a minimum of 15 rds out of 18 on each target. Each target is shot in two strings. The first is 6 rds in 20 seconds freestyle. The 2nd string is 6 rds, reload and 6 rounds in 20 seconds freestyle. This is repeated on each target. The test is really not that difficult if you have any experience with a handgun.”

I must say if you can not shoot that well, you better stay home!

Thanks for posting that!

Three44s

[robertbank]

“For BC A total of 18 rds are fired at an 18" diameter circle (9" Radius) at 5m 10 and 15 meters. You must score a minimum of 15 rds out of 18 on each target. Each target is shot in two strings. The first is 6 rds in 20 seconds freestyle. The 2nd string is 6 rds, reload and 6 rounds in 20 seconds freestyle. This is repeated on each target. The test is really not that difficult if you have any experience with a handgun.”

I must say if you can not shoot that well, you better stay home!

Thanks for posting that!

Three44s

Hey designed by a civil servant who had enough sense not to make it a bullseye contest. The joke is there are companies up here who charge $500 for a course to get you the permit and folks that pay the fee.

Take Care

Bob

[Graybeard96]

Hey designed by a civil servant who had enough sense not to make it a bullseye contest. The joke is there are companies up here who charge $500 for a course to get you the permit and folks that pay the fee.

Take Care

Bob

As you know passing the Shooting test is just part of the Deal. No less important is getting your "Application to carry Questionnaire Remote Wilderness Areas) approved by the CFO for BC and Yukon. Therefore anyone thinking of taking the shooting test and/or wanting to enroll in a shooting test to qualify is well advised to get the Paperwork from the CFO Office beforehand so he can assess if he even has a chance to qualify.

Cheers

[jgt]

I once lived in the north west U.S. I backpacked and hunted in areas with grizzly bear population. I was always afraid of having to defend myself from one. I chose a 44 magnum because that was what I shot. I can not shoot magnum loads day in and day out all the time without causing damage to my wrists and elbows. The way I addressed the issue was to buy a Redhawk. I sent it to Bowen Custom Arms to go through and make sure every thing was as it should be. He installed a Douglas barrel and Dan Wesson shroud. He also slightly rounded the butt. When the gun was right, I turned to the cartridge. I was not trying to impress anyone with the speed I could get because I could not handle a load that was maxed out well enough to have any hope of multiple hits. It had to be something I could hit with and hopefully get back on target within a reasonable amount of time. I went to NEI and they made me a bullet mold that was a Keith-style bullet that weighed 379 grains when cast of acww with gas check and bullet lube. I used the slowest burning powder I could get to work in the cartridge and at that time it was 680. A bullet that heavy was much longer than a 240 grain so took up more room in the case. That gave me limiting factors. One, there was not enough room to overload that powder. That also meant the recoil was not so severe that I developed a flinch or experienced pain from shooting the load. To test my theory I tried it on a log laid down around a parking area in the national forest. The log was about 36 inches across. I shot it through the middle to see how deep the bullet would penetrate. The bullet came out the other side and went into a pile of gravel left over from paving the parking area. It went in about 18". When I dug it out, it had some nose distortion but the rest of the bullet could have been reloaded and used again. That was what I chose to carry to protect myself from bear. It was not the fastest load or the one with the most recoil, but it would penetrate like no other I had at the time. Sort of like an engine on a freight train running into a tractor trailer. I had the confidence that load would be able to break shoulders or the spine if I got that lucky. Mainly I just prayed I never had to use it. I didn't. I still have the mold. I live in Texas now and use the bullets to fire lap barrels these days.
Looking back, my advice would be to take the gun you choose to a good gunsmith and tell him to go through it an correct anything that needs it, as it has to protect your life. That will give you a tool you can count on. Then develop a load with the heaviest bullet you can handle without sacrificing accuracy. That lets the bullet help do the job. It is not always the fastest load that gets the job done. It is a combination of energy at the right speed that does the job. Last, but not least, don't forget this is a tool for your job, so you can deduct the cost from your income tax as a business expense so don't skimp on the gunsmith. Get the best you can afford. Good luck.

[robertbank]

As you know passing the Shooting test is just part of the Deal. No less important is getting your "Application to carry Questionnaire Remote Wilderness Areas) approved by the CFO for BC and Yukon. Therefore anyone thinking of taking the shooting test and/or wanting to enroll in a shooting test to qualify is well advised to get the Paperwork from the CFO Office beforehand so he can assess if he even has a chance to qualify.

Cheers

Exactly. Aside from corporate applications, the ones I have been involved with here in BC have been guys with "Free Miners Licenses" available at your local BC Services, one trapper where you need a BC Trap Line, and one fellow who flew a Cessna 180/Super Cub for a guiding outfit out of the Yukon.

About five years ago we ran into bureaucratic nonsense over the requirement for a Workman's Compensation number and business license for the Free Miners which ended when we pointed out to the CFO neither were applicable or obtainable or needed to get a Free Miners License. For individuals those examples pretty much covers the acceptable reasons the CFO will accept outside of wilderness Guides, individuals whose job is located in remote areas. It is not just a case of turning up for a course and getting a permit. There has to be some semblance of need for the permit.

I have not run into any cases where the individual was either new to handguns or not proficient with them.

Take Care

Bob

[LeonardC]

That's an interesting gun; Ruger Redhawk with a Dan Wesson shroud.

[jgt]

It was easy to clean. I just took it down with a Dan Wesson barrel tool and cleaned it from the breach end. I could also set the barrel/cylinder gap to any space I wanted. I have a Freedom Arms 44 and it has too close a gap to do much shooting before it starts to drag. It is fine for hunting. The gap has little effect on accuracy only on velocity. Bowen uses Anaconda barrels now days, but back then he could easily get the shrouds and made barrels from Douglas blanks. I liked being able to interchange the front sights also. I thought I would like the McGivern bead, but the white insert sight became my favorite. I gave the gun to my nephew, He tells me how much he loves it nearly every time we talk.

[echo154]

Lloyd, I hike Quite often and fish in bear country. I think your inference to "hikers" being disposable is offensive. I, as well as a great many I know, love hiking, this country....the beliefs of our Founding Fathers. I was a cop for 30 years, support CCW, as well as the NRA. I also support Towers To Tunnels as well as Wounded Warriors. I do not like Liberals as well as a host with like beliefs...but do not wish them harm...rather enlightenment to the real world>

[Graybeard96]

I once lived in the north west U.S. I backpacked and hunted in areas with grizzly bear population. I was always afraid of having to defend myself from one. I chose a 44 magnum because that was what I shot. I can not shoot magnum loads day in and day out all the time without causing damage to my wrists and elbows. The way I addressed the issue was to buy a Redhawk. I sent it to Bowen Custom Arms to go through and make sure every thing was as it should be. He installed a Douglas barrel and Dan Wesson shroud. He also slightly rounded the butt. When the gun was right, I turned to the cartridge. I was not trying to impress anyone with the speed I could get because I could not handle a load that was maxed out well enough to have any hope of multiple hits. It had to be something I could hit with and hopefully get back on target within a reasonable amount of time. I went to NEI and they made me a bullet mold that was a Keith-style bullet that weighed 379 grains when cast of acww with gas check and bullet lube. I used the slowest burning powder I could get to work in the cartridge and at that time it was 680. A bullet that heavy was much longer than a 240 grain so took up more room in the case. That gave me limiting factors. One, there was not enough room to overload that powder. That also meant the recoil was not so severe that I developed a flinch or experienced pain from shooting the load. To test my theory I tried it on a log laid down around a parking area in the national forest. The log was about 36 inches across. I shot it through the middle to see how deep the bullet would penetrate. The bullet came out the other side and went into a pile of gravel left over from paving the parking area. It went in about 18". When I dug it out, it had some nose distortion but the rest of the bullet could have been reloaded and used again. That was what I chose to carry to protect myself from bear. It was not the fastest load or the one with the most recoil, but it would penetrate like no other I had at the time. Sort of like an engine on a freight train running into a tractor trailer. I had the confidence that load would be able to break shoulders or the spine if I got that lucky. Mainly I just prayed I never had to use it. I didn't. I still have the mold. I live in Texas now and use the bullets to fire lap barrels these days.
Looking back, my advice would be to take the gun you choose to a good gunsmith and tell him to go through it an correct anything that needs it, as it has to protect your life. That will give you a tool you can count on. Then develop a load with the heaviest bullet you can handle without sacrificing accuracy. That lets the bullet help do the job. It is not always the fastest load that gets the job done. It is a combination of energy at the right speed that does the job. Last, but not least, don't forget this is a tool for your job, so you can deduct the cost from your income tax as a business expense so don't skimp on the gunsmith. Get the best you can afford. Good luck.

Based on my experience, the most important thing when Dealing with a Grizzly is (A) Never run, (B) be ready to shoot, (C) Keep your Nerve. The last thing I want to do is shoot a Bear unless absolutely necessary because it would trigger a Investigation nightmare. To do all this in a high stress situation you have to be psychologically prepared. A production Revolver in a sufficient Caliber from a reputable Manufacturer should do I trust.

Cheers

[jonp]

Ive spent time cruising timber out west but never met a grizzly and hope to never encounter one up close and personal. Ive read with interest people who travel in areas like that and their carry. Quite a few make a compelling case for a 10mm full size mostly on the grounds of slinging as much lead as fast as possible hoping for the best results as reloading is a pipe dream and under that adrenaline rush plus the speed of a bear your going to miss some so aim center and pull till the click at which point you will know if your going to live or not. Peoplevthat talk about aiming for the brainpan or shooting off the left toes then moving right when it stumbles left are plain idiots. Anyone who has shot during stress, not a moving paper target but real stress know how stupid that talk is. Under a high stress situation its all training and muscle memory and outside the military few put enough downrange to build that memory.

Biggest thing is not to wait until the charge but have it in your hand ready to go. Your not Bob Meyers so clearing leather in a charge is not something to plan on.

For me, a Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk 45lc using 265 or 300gr hardcast loaded to the gills with Linebaugh loads is where I will hang my hat and hope to live to post the tale

[LeonardC]

I did not try the white insert in my 4" DW44 (or my other DWs). I tried the yellow thinking if I ran into a bear it would most likely be in thick stuff where there was not much light. It worked OK when it was not light, but the least bit of sunlight and the front sight seemed to flare and I could not get a good sight picture.

[Three44s]

“Shoot the toes off a bear”?

That’s pretty crazy! That’s even richer than braining a bear in a charge!

I still subscribe to breaking the bears forward control by attempting to bust a shoulder. You go for the hump. It certainly will not kill the animal but one or the other front shoulder blade broken gives someone in control of their emotions an added second or two and a possible shift in the bears orientation to afford better follow up shot opportunities.

.... that is if you have a follow up shot (or 3) left in your gun.

The 10 mm is mentioned and those that like it can keep it from my perspective. The bullets are shaped poorly for large animals so the gun can cycle and they are too light and they are not moving fast enough to compensate for their lightness.

All in all, the 10 mm is no 41 Rem Mag, and the 41 is no 44. I know, I own two .41s. I like them, I love my .44s and am slap happy with my .480 Ruger.

Three44s

[nicholst55]

We should make this thread a sticky. Then perhaps it won't be repeated every six months.

[John Crusher]

I am going out West for a fishing trip next month. Remote spots and I've seen Bears and Mountain Lions there.
I chose a Taurus Raging Hunter 51/4" barrel 44 mag. and have ran a couple of hundred rounds through it and I like it. The downside is the double cylinder lock, but you get pretty fast if you practice and I've got speedloaders. I have a Gunfighters Kenai chest holster and it draws smooth.
I'll take a 12 ga. and a levergun also.
Bear spray , of course.

[Savvy Jack]

We should make this thread a sticky. Then perhaps it won't be repeated every six months.

Or just start a new that is "accessed" by only those that have ever stopped a charging bear with a revolver.

[memtb]

Or just start a new that is "accessed" by only those that have ever stopped a charging bear with a revolver.

So only those that have stopped a charging bear with a semi-auto can play? :-D memtb

[Newtire]

I don't bear hunt, nor do I have to worry about bear attacks (at the moment). I think we need to understand what we're shooting "at" before deciding what to shoot it "with". Here's a couple of informative sites.

https://youtu.be/yzxL9r_1IF0 (young brown bear 250 lbs.)

http://www.ballistics101.com/images/bear_images/bearshotplacement.pdf (shot placement and anatomy)

287597
https://qualityhunts.com/product/hunts/featured/brown-bear-alaska-peninsula/
That is one fearsome looking beast.

[Newtire]

im with doug. All we have here are black bears and a 44 or about anything will work on them. If i was in brown or griz territory i wouldnt be caught without a long gun period. Ive killed lots of game with 475s and 500 linebaughs. Some as big as bison. Ive had deer run off after a good hit with a 500 and watched one 1200 lb cow bison keep eating grass after i hit in behind the shoulder with a 500 shooting 480lfns at 1200 fps. I kept eating like it wasnt even hit for a good 30 seconds before it tipped over dead. PLENTY of time for a big bear to tear you limb from limb. All a handgun would be for me in big bear territory would be a back up and that said i doubt a bear is giving you time to use your back up. Id prefer 3lbs less weight on my hip when i tried to get out of dodge then to count on it saving my life. People overestimate the power of even the biggest handguns. They think there dinosaur slayers when in fact there barely equal to a black powder 4570 load in a package thats much harder to place a good shot with. a 44mag? less real world power then a 3030. A 9mm??? About like walking into a firefight armed with a 25acp. We had a charging bear target at one linebaugh seminar and just the pressure of having people watch had about 50 percent of the shooters missing the bear completely. Keep in mind those are some of the best handgun shooters in the country. I could count on my 10 fingers the number of guys who could consistently make a central nervous system hit. Now add a real bear with claws and snapping teeth and a roll of toilet paper might be better in a holster then a handgun. if your out where REAL bear dangers are likely and you dont have a long gun, good luck to you!!
I would be inclined to go with a 12 gauge pump with Brenneke slugs myself. Either that or just stay home. I read an article once where some gun writer was saying how a bear in thick cover would most likely have you before you could have the time to draw a pistol.

[Thumbcocker]

Or just start a new that is "accessed" by only those that have ever stopped a charging bear with a revolver.

Would certainly save space.

[robertbank]

Or just start a new that is "accessed" by only those that have ever stopped a charging bear with a revolver.

Yes but the benefit of these threads at least makes folks aware of a potential threat while walking in the woods and hopefully some idea of the risk of trying to feed them along the highway or taking pictures of them from a few yards. I say hopefully because I am sure most here on this forum understand the risks involved.

The threads are really no different than the CCW threads that appear from time to time. Limit those to folks who have used their guns to defend themselves and they might never get past the first post.

I am always amazed when I see families out of their cars walking within a few yards of feeding Black Bears along our highways. Darwin exists I guess but their surely is a minimum level of intelligence for adults to be able to drive a car. Maybe not.

Take Care

Bob

[Savvy Jack]

So only those that have stopped a charging bear with a semi-auto can play? :-D memtb

I do think the OP said revolver....which is why I said what I said. I prefer a grenade myself!!!

[Graybeard96]

What most People don't know is that it is very likely that most Grizzly Attacks are never reported simply because of the Bureaucratic nightmare the Shooter is subjected to especially in British Columbia and the Yukon.
I did not report the one which happened to me in May of 1980. I was young and Lucky ending up alive when I should have been mauled and Dead, just happened to have a Client with me which used to hunt Russians in the Trenches and had nerves of Steel, just my Luck.
My Neighbor was not so Lucky, that Sow Grizzly hung on to his Head in her Fangs while they tumbled down the Mountain side, thanks Good she eventually remembered her Cubs and let go of him, he survived never reported and did not talk after that to much.

Cheers

[Thumbcocker]

Yes but the benefit of these threads at least makes folks aware of a potential threat while walking in the woods and hopefully some idea of the risk of trying to feed them along the highway or taking pictures of them from a few yards. I say hopefully because I am sure most here on this forum understand the risks involved.

The threads are really no different than the CCW threads that appear from time to time. Limit those to folks who have used their guns to defend themselves and they might never get past the first post.

I am always amazed when I see families out of their cars walking within a few yards of feeding Black Bears along our highways. Darwin exists I guess but their surely is a minimum level of intelligence for adults to be able to drive a car. Maybe not.

Take Care

BobThey live, they breed, their vote counts just as much as yours, and in many States they can legally carry a pistol. Sleep tight.

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[jgt]

The reason I got the Redhawk built was because when I was on solo in survival school I was the farthest person from the base camp. In the wee hours of the morning a bear came into my camp. The only thing I had to protect myself was a Puma Skinner I carried since the sixties. I got my back against a rock wall and the fire between me and it. I threw wood on the fire and soon it was going good, but it did not make him go on about his business. Thankfully he finally move on after what seem to me like an eternity. I never felt so naked as that experience. I don't pretend I don't trust bears, black, brown, or otherwise. I know I am no match for them in a fight. Would my gun/load work to end a grizzly bear attack? Don't know. Don't want to find out. Just sharing my personal stuff. Maybe you think I had nothing worth while to share. At my age, don't much care about that either.

[Three44s]

The reason I got the Redhawk built was because when I was on solo in survival school I was the farthest person from the base camp. In the wee hours of the morning a bear came into my camp. The only thing I had to protect myself was a Puma Skinner I carried since the sixties. I got my back against a rock wall and the fire between me and it. I threw wood on the fire and soon it was going good, but it did not make him go on about his business. Thankfully he finally move on after what seem to me like an eternity. I never felt so naked as that experience. I don't pretend I don't trust bears, black, brown, or otherwise. I know I am no match for them in a fight. Would my gun/load work to end a grizzly bear attack? Don't know. Don't want to find out. Just sharing my personal stuff. Maybe you think I had nothing worth while to share. At my age, don't much care about that either.

So you sent your Redhawk in for customization to increase your faith in it, not because you had experienced a failure along the way. Nothing wrong with that.

My RH has been totally reliable except for the need to run old school Federal primers in it. I change it back up to the factory hammer/trigger reset spring and then all primers will go off again.

My confirmed carry piece is my Smith 629-4 Mountain Gun because it is a trimmer package at 39 oz and compact with a 4” barrel and no more grizzly bear sightings in the intervening years in my area. The RH at about 53 oz and a 7 1/2” barrel is not the “belt gun” that the Smith is.

The Smith has “broken” twice. The cylinder pin peened over not allowing it to close and separately, the firing pin broke. My gun dealer fixed both items as a walk in on the spot. He told me they were not abuse breaks but rather poor parts in his opinion. On the peeping break I limited my bullet weight to 270 gr there after in that revolver in spite of the gunsmiths assurances.


The Smith is fed almost exclusively the RCBS 250K boolit these days.

Best regards

Three44s

[Graybeard96]

Look at this kind of Gunshop Service/Business which I really don't want to deal with but unfortunately don't had a Choice.

Ordered 2 Screws and paid for them via EMT (Cdn.$ 30.45) on August 19. 2021. The Screws with Tax are 13.45 Which includes Tax.
Shipping and handling from Montreal was extra at 17.00
That Business did not accepted my EMT Payment until 2 days ago.
No Communication whatsoever.
Screws are for a Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter Revolver where the Ejector Housing Stud (Screw) sheered off.
Screws have still not arrived to this Day, nor did I receive a Tracking #.

The Business calls itself "Location Snap Shots inc." located in Montreal Quebec and is the Repair Facility for Ruger Firearms in Canada.

Darn it, I like Ruger Revolvers and thinking buying another one but this kind of Service sucks.

Waiiiiiiiiit-----------Huuuuuuuuuuuuh
Mail just arrived with the Screws--------------Haleluya, what could go wrong now ?

Cheers

Well the Screw fits and the Housing is back on. Have not used any Locktite but inserted a small Leather disk which will prevent the Ejector Rod hitting the Screw (Stud) sharply. Perhaps that will solve the Problem, hopefully will find out for sure on the shooting Range.

Looking at the Envelope the Screws came in, It shows a wrong House number but a correct Postal Code. On the Invoice is my correct address printed. Yep, that is how it goes nowadays in Canada.

Thanks to all for there input and suggestions. It is Websites like this and all our comments which keep our Suppliers on there Toes. Businesses pay attention what is said here, don't be shy rocking the Boat just be fair. Unfortunately 40 years of Liberal indoctrination caused to many Canadians to be way to laid Back. On the other hand there are many good Businesses which "stand behind" there product and I mean right behind you willing to be fair, make things right and not be a mile or two behind and trying to Scalp you.

Thank's

[Three44s]

30 bucks for two screws?

That’s insane!!

Three44s

[DougGuy]

You most assuredly want some thread locker on that screw.

[Bigslug]

Imagine the number of potential posts if the topic were “Gunfights with Bears! :bigsmyl2: memtb

When you elect dyslexic legislators who keep and arm them, what else can you expect?

[Thumbcocker]

When you elect dyslexic legislators who keep and arm them, what else can you expect?I think i did that some years back. Got a lot of posts about shotgun vs. handgun . I held that there was absolutely no reason for a bear to be allowed a gun of any type.

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[jonp]

Thanks for asking,
They way the Rules are in my parts. One has to qualify under Supervision by a specially licensed Examiner. The Shooter has to put 6 Rounds into a 9" Radius at 5 Meters, 10 Meters and 15 Meters. Each one in 18 Seconds. The Shells must be the same Load then the Shooter will use in the Bush which in my case is full Power Loads pushing a 240 Grain Lead GC Slug. Gun must be carried on Belt, no cross Draw or Shoulder Holster allowed. Gun must be secured in the Holster by 2 separate Buttons. If a shot is fired in the Bush, it must be reported asap and investigation begins. While I am maintaining Trails I am usually by myself, next Person probably at least 60 miles away.

Thanks

Thanks for this. Very inteteresting

[dla]

Revolver in Stainless Steel and I am Eyeballing the DA Ruger Super Redhawk in .44 Rem. Mag and also the DA Ruger Redhawk.
I would be interested to hear from those which actually carry any of those 2 Revolvers and what there Opinion is.

Thank's
Here I go not answering your question...

I carry the 329pd. I load it with 300gr WFN at just over 1000fps. It is not painful for me.

I quit trying to load for armored grizzly when I finally realized that there is no advantage to a bullet passing through a bear and burying itself 10" into the dirt versus 4" into the dirt.
The sectional density of a 300gr bullet (.232) and the momentum at 1000fps is plenty to drill a 1/2" hole a long, long ways.

The 329 rides on my hip without fan fare - it weighs 31oz loaded. I don't quibble over whether or not to take it along. My happiness level is high.

[Graybeard96]

Here I go not answering your question...

I carry the 329pd. I load it with 300gr WFN at just over 1000fps. It is not painful for me.

I quit trying to load for armored grizzly when I finally realized that there is no advantage to a bullet passing through a bear and burying itself 10" into the dirt versus 4" into the dirt.
The sectional density of a 300gr bullet (.232) and the momentum at 1000fps is plenty to drill a 1/2" hole a long, long ways.

The 329 rides on my hip without fan fare - it weighs 31oz loaded. I don't quibble over whether or not to take it along. My happiness level is high.

Nice Revolver but for the brutal wear my equipment can be subjected too I prefer the ruggedness of Stainless Steel the big Ruger's provide. Another thing is I always liked Barrels in the 7-8 " length. Been shooting a lot of 240/250 GC Bullets and very comfortable with them but because of repeated advise including yours using 300 Gr. Bullets, coming Winter will see me give them a serious try.

Thank's

[Castaway]

Graybeard 96, hate to belabor the point about your Black Hawk failure, but do I understand the ejector housing screw sheared or did it become unscrewed? Was part of the screw still embedded in the barrel? There’s not much mass to the aluminum housing and the force to shear that screw I would think would shear other things way before hand. I’ve launched ejector housings twice and each time, it was the screw that had backed out under recoil.

[Graybeard96]

Graybeard 96, hate to belabor the point about your Black Hawk failure, but do I understand the ejector housing screw sheared or did it become unscrewed? Was part of the screw still embedded in the barrel? There’s not much mass to the aluminum housing and the force to shear that screw I would think would shear other things way before hand. I’ve launched ejector housings twice and each time, it was the screw that had backed out under recoil.

Thank you for asking, we may be able to learn something from this failure.
The Ejector Housing on mine is definitely Stainless Steel probably 304 because it is Magnetic. I am the first Owner (after Ruger) I purchased this Revolver in 2006.

The Screw definitely did not unscrew but was reasonable tight when she got sheered off leaving a short part of it in the hole. My precise Chinese Caliper tells me the Screw actually was tight, bottomed out in the Hole. A few days before it happened I used this Revolver on the Handgun Range, same evening when I cleaned the Gun I noticed the Ejector Housing Screw was loose and immediately tightened it. No Locktite or anything was used.

I think I mentioned it somewhere before, The Ejector Rod shows clearly peening from hitting the solid round part of the Screw Stud. To prevent this in future I inserted a small thin Leather Disk. Soon I get a chance I will get myself some Blue Locktite and will Locktite the Screw and the entire Ejector Housing to the Barrel. Unfortunately because of the Failure the earliest I could be using this particular Revolver is now almost a year away, meanwhile another Revolver of mine will have to pull up the Slack.

Hope I explained it good enough.

Thanks

[robertbank]

Hear I thought only the Colt SAA and clones suffered the back out routine. Al my SAA clones have the ejector screws locked down with Blue loctite.

9.63xlAl Hey Al get your 12 gauge with slugs out for your berry picking forays. Slugs are big, heavy and work. Just remember the the three S's.

Take Care

Bob

[Laguna Freak]

Well, I dont shoot either so you can take this with a grain of salt. I do shoot 285 gr SWC (approx. 15 BHN) out of a 22 yr old Taurus Raging Bull that has very close tolerances. A couple days ago I shot 25 for 25 into a 12” x 12” target from 20 yards. Drawing and shooting about as fast as I could while envisioning the target as the head of a charging griz. I’m way too slow if I first see the bear charging at 20 yards. For what its worth, I think the so-called “hard cast” 20+ BHN boolits marketed today are over-rated.

Now my son shoots a Super Red Hawk and loves it. I find it very heavy. Lastly, Colt has the Anaconda again. I’d recommend handling a new Raging Bull if you might like it as much as I like mine. The guns I’ve seen for sale recently are over $1,200. Don’t know if Taurus QC has declined in the last 20 years. Hope there is something useful to you in this post.

[Graybeard96]

Hear I thought only the Colt SAA and clones suffered the back out routine. Al my SAA clones have the ejector screws locked down with Blue loctite.

9.63xlAl Hey Al get your 12 gauge with slugs out for your berry picking forays. Slugs are big, heavy and work. Just remember the the three S's.

Take Care

Bob

Now that you said that, I pulled the Stud off my FG SAA Colt in 32-20. The setup is different and better in that there is a Female Stud in the Barrel presumably soldered into the Barrel which takes the recoil which of course is almost none in this Caliber. The Studscrew just fastens the Ejector Rod housing to the soldered in Female Stud. Unfortunately I don't own a big Caliber FG Colt so I cant check.

Thanks

[memtb]

I realize that you’ve already purchased a replacement screw ($$$’s), I also have never heard of one shearing off. Not knowing the exact design of the screw area, I have a thought. Often, on very heavy recoil rifles, to prevent the scope bases screws from shearing off.....a gunsmith taps-out to a larger screw size, helping eliminate screw shear! My wife and I had this done to our hunting rifles.....an insurance measure! memtb

[Graybeard96]

I realize that you’ve already purchased a replacement screw ($$$’s), I also have never heard of one shearing off. Not knowing the exact design of the screw area, I have a thought. Often, on very heavy recoil rifles, to prevent the scope bases screws from shearing off.....a gunsmith taps-out to a larger screw size, helping eliminate screw shear! My wife and I had this done to our hunting rifles.....an insurance measure! memtb

As the Ruger Repair Shop in Montreal/Canada mentioned, this sheering of the Screw happens sometimes. To be fair I will say they respondent by mailing me 2 replacement Studs (Screws) relative fast and now the Revolver is operational again. Unfortunately for now and before Winter sets in I wont have time to do extensive tests to see if the repair stands up. For those experiencing the same failure I would now recommend to have a Look what Colt did to there first Generation SAA (see my Post # 168) which is of course a bit more to expensive to manufacture but likely a far sturdier Ejector Shroud fastening system.

Thanks

[Thumbcocker]

Mrs. Thumbcocker just bought this shirt.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210831/b8d85e128e6fb23e2fe88b42cee39598.jpg

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[Three44s]

A shirt made in heaven for all the X-Biden supporters. The bears will take the bait!

Three44s

[ranchman]

As the Ruger Repair Shop in Montreal/Canada mentioned, this sheering of the Screw happens sometimes. To be fair I will say they respondent by mailing me 2 replacement Studs (Screws) relative fast and now the Revolver is operational again. Unfortunately for now and before Winter sets in I wont have time to do extensive tests to see if the repair stands up. For those experiencing the same failure I would now recommend to have a Look what Colt did to there first Generation SAA (see my Post # 168) which is of course a bit more to expensive to manufacture but likely a far sturdier Ejector Shroud fastening system.

Thanks

Single action Colt barrels are absolutely better designed for handling recoil exertion than Ruger.. several smith's in the States have added a recoil pin underneath the ejector housings to assist in recoil absorption something like the Colt stud does. Some use solid pins, some roll pins, and the very best (in my opinion) have done a square lug (similar to a rifle actions recoil lug). I don't know of any smith's in Canada that would perform the job, but with some explanation and discussion on it, I can't see it being a job that's impossible for any competent gunsmith.

Hamilton Bowen (in his custom revolver book) talks of one done with a square lug, and shows a picture of another with a winchester rifle style ejector fabricated that has a band dovetailed into the barrel which the ejector slides through, then screws down into ... possibly the ultimate for retaining an ejector housing, but likely uber expensive. Myself, I think the square lug would be the most cost effective, and reliable. With 90-degree angles locking those housings in place, and the factory screw just for securing it down, those things wouldn't go anyplace.

The roll-pin option is probably most do-yourself friendly though, if a guy was in a pinch and handy enough with basic shop tools it can be done right at home and save yourself the turn-around times from slow gunsmiths. I've done a few simple roll-pin ones myself, and have had excellent success with them. It's surprising Ruger hasn't added that one (very worthwhile) step to their production line, ejector housings are a constant problem with them.

[Buzzard II]

.44 Magnum. I think a .454 or larger may recoil so much, a second shot may take too long.

[Graybeard96]

Single action Colt barrels are absolutely better designed for handling recoil exertion than Ruger.. several smith's in the States have added a recoil pin underneath the ejector housings to assist in recoil absorption something like the Colt stud does. Some use solid pins, some roll pins, and the very best (in my opinion) have done a square lug (similar to a rifle actions recoil lug). I don't know of any smith's in Canada that would perform the job, but with some explanation and discussion on it, I can't see it being a job that's impossible for any competent gunsmith.

Hamilton Bowen (in his custom revolver book) talks of one done with a square lug, and shows a picture of another with a winchester rifle style ejector fabricated that has a band dovetailed into the barrel which the ejector slides through, then screws down into ... possibly the ultimate for retaining an ejector housing, but likely uber expensive. Myself, I think the square lug would be the most cost effective, and reliable. With 90-degree angles locking those housings in place, and the factory screw just for securing it down, those things wouldn't go anyplace.

The roll-pin option is probably most do-yourself friendly though, if a guy was in a pinch and handy enough with basic shop tools it can be done right at home and save yourself the turn-around times from slow gunsmiths. I've done a few simple roll-pin ones myself, and have had excellent success with them. It's surprising Ruger hasn't added that one (very worthwhile) step to their production line, ejector housings are a constant problem with them.

Can't beat those old Colts, no surprise anyone in the old West wanted and bought one if the could afford the expense and make no mistake they where not cheep then either, the Cadillac of Revolvers.

While at first I had many reservations with the transfer Bar, I finally had to admit it was a better system especially for my work. While I also love the S&Wessons very much. The Stainless Steel SA Rugers I thought fit my requirements when it comes to my work which is often brutal physical Labor, dirty, lonely, wet or snowing and at times Dangerous because of the constant presence of Grizzly Bears. In short the Revolver must be as reliable as can be and be able to forego a day or two of babying/cleaning when totally exhausted back in Camp.

Thanks

[Old Caster]

Whatever you use against wild animals, you don't want to be lying on the ground being eaten while thinking, "at least I shot it and hurt it before it got me", so use the most powerful revolver you can efficiently handle which of course varies between the handler.

[Jtarm]

A little food for thought: I just read an article by Brian Pearce on reloading the .357 that included a vignette about a Fish & Game officer who got attacked by a 400-lb grizzly he was relocating.

The bear had him on the ground and four JHPs (didn’t say what weight) from his .357 at contact distance failed to penetrate the skull.

A fifth shot to the neck broke the spine.

[Castaway]

I’ve been following this thread since it started. My neighbor, a 20+ year Fl State Trooper heads off to Montana tomorrow to elk hunt with a bow. He asked me to load him some spicy 45 ACPs to carry in his Glock. I did, using a 190 grain Lee SWC and a max load of Unique, estimated at 1,000 + f/s. When he came down to function test, I gave him my 4 3/4” SAA loaded with an RCBS 270 gr (280 actual) SWC and showed him each bullet side by side, then the actual loaded cartridges. He fired his Glock and then the single action loaded with a full charge of black powder. Needless to say, he was impressed with the SAA, but declined my offer to borrow the pistol as he’s unexperienced with a single action. Definitely not my choice

[bigboredad]

It was easy to clean. I just took it down with a Dan Wesson barrel tool and cleaned it from the breach end. I could also set the barrel/cylinder gap to any space I wanted. I have a Freedom Arms 44 and it has too close a gap to do much shooting before it starts to drag. It is fine for hunting. The gap has little effect on accuracy only on velocity. Bowen uses Anaconda barrels now days, but back then he could easily get the shrouds and made barrels from Douglas blanks. I liked being able to interchange the front sights also. I thought I would like the McGivern bead, but the white insert sight became my favorite. I gave the gun to my nephew, He tells me how much he loves it nearly every time we talk.I had a load for a 4.5 inch 45 bisley vaquero. I was just trying to find a load that would shoot *** without filing the sights. It wound up being a 350gr bullet with 9grn of unique. I was curious about how deep it would go into a 16inch diameter log. After shooting it 3 times and seeing dirt fly 3 times I put a target on the back side of the log as I knew there was no way I was missing and knew there was no way it was going thru the log you can imagine my surprise when I saw the hole in the target

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[Graybeard96]

A little food for thought: I just read an article by Brian Pearce on reloading the .357 that included a vignette about a Fish & Game officer who got attacked by a 400-lb grizzly he was relocating.

The bear had him on the ground and four JHPs (didn’t say what weight) from his .357 at contact distance failed to penetrate the skull.

A fifth shot to the neck broke the spine.

A 400 Lbs Boar (Male) Grizzly Bear is about 4-5 years old and just a bit bigger then a full grown well fed Black Bear. However this 400 pounder is exactly the kind of Bear which can give you the most trouble because they are searching for a Territory to call there own. In Mountainous Regions all the Sows and smaller Bears will be near Timberline and semi open Alpine where Life is tough. Once a Boar Grizzly gets bigger and more sure of himself he will try to establish himself in the River Bottoms where Life is good because of lots of Beavers (Candy to a Grizzly) Salmon in the Rivers and huge Berry Crops all the way from River Bottom to the Alpine. Unfortunately for him all good Grizzly Bear Territory are occupied by big Males which can weight up to a 1000 Lbs or even more. I am assuming the Weight based what a Horse weights. The real big Grizzly's are rarely the Problem and tend to disappear when they smell Man but there presence is evidenced by the Tracks they live behind in the Mud and Sandbars.
The Scull (Bone thickness) of any Grizzly Bear (I boiled the Meat off quite a few of them) is not really that thick. If those .357 Bullets did not penetrate into the Brain I say there is something else going on.

However my own Penetration Tests with my .44 Rem. Magnum Revolvers into Plywood surprised me insofar that my own Cast GC Bullets (Semi Wadcutter Type) penetrated just as well as the similar weight Jacketed Hollow Point Hornady's.

The .357 is the minimum we are allowed here as a Bear Defense Caliber. Myself I prefer the .44 but whatever you want to use make sure you know the Gun and be ready in a flash.

Thanks

[Three44s]

All jacketed HPs are not made the same. The Hornady XTP series is a better bullet than the bulk of the HPs for deeper penetration.

The best punch through jacketed I know of is the Speer Gold Dot 270 gr in the 44 that is a flat nose configuration.

I still prefer my cast, either the RCBS 250K or the Lee 310 gr flat nose dual crimp grooved boolit. I run the RCBS in my Mountain Gun from mild to top SAMMI loads and that plus the Lee in my Redhawk.

Three44s

[Graybeard96]

Hi there,
Because I am considering purchasing (if I can find and hold in my Hand prior purchase) a DA Ruger Redhawk, I would appreciate if you allow me to ask you a few questions because I never seen one up close and never seen one shot either.
I understand there are 3 different Redhawk's. First the one from the 1980s, second todays Redhawk and then of course the Super Redhawk. Which one do you have, have shot, would recommend and why and also have you have ever had any malfunctions with it.

Myself I prefer a Revolver with a 7 to 8 " Barrel and don't mind the extra weight for the intended use. I definitely will stay with my favorite Caliber which is .44 Rem Magnum.

Thank you in advance
GB

[charlie b]

Why would you ever put hollow point bullets in pistol for bear? Heck, even with a rifle I think I'd go with a solid.

[Graybeard96]

Why would you ever put hollow point bullets in pistol for bear? Heck, even with a rifle I think I'd go with a solid.

Good question my Friend !
I just assumed the 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Hornady's would Mushroom better and penetrate deeper then my 245 Grain GC SWC Lead Slugs. However, my penetration test into dry Plywood showed they where almost indentical at 3.3/4" to 4" penetration.

Just for comparison.
During a hunt I had to search for a wounded 7.5 Nose to Tail Male Grizzly (I am guessing 550 Lbs). in the Timberline with very little underbrush where I could see a average of 25 ft. in front of me. Weather was nice without Wind and late afternoon. Grizzly was Gut shot by a Client about 2 Hours earlier. I went to Camp got the Dog and came after the Griz leaving Hunter and his Girlfriend in Camp. The wounded Grizzly was almost impossible to make out cauert behind a small spruce Tree but my unleashed Dog (German Hunting Terrier) screaming her Lungs out less then 10 ft away from the Bear showed me exactly where he was, easy peasy.

I was ready with my trusty old FN Browning Safari Grade in .338 WM with 250 Hornady Round Nose Slugs. He came like a Football and was less then 8 Ft away when my first Slug hit and threw him Dead to the Ground. Without delay I gave him the 3 remaining ones from the Magazine too before I had to sit down and reloaded as fast my shaking Body allowed. During skinning him out I found my first Slug went trough his open Mouth all the way trough his Body and got stuck nicely Mushroomed just under his Hide near his Anus.

Remember the difference:
A wounded Grizzly wants to kill you. A healthy Grizzly usually hits the Brakes 10 ft or more from you if you stand your Ground. All Bets are off with Grizzly Sows accompanied by young ones !

Thanks

[Jtarm]

A 400 Lbs Boar (Male) Grizzly Bear is about 4-5 years old and just a bit bigger then a full grown well fed Black Bear. However this 400 pounder is exactly the kind of Bear which can give you the most trouble because they are searching for a Territory to call there own.

Sounds like the bear equivalent of an 18-25 year old human male.


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[Three44s]

Hi there,
Because I am considering purchasing (if I can find and hold in my Hand prior purchase) a DA Ruger Redhawk, I would appreciate if you allow me to ask you a few questions because I never seen one up close and never seen one shot either.
I understand there are 3 different Redhawk's. First the one from the 1980s, second todays Redhawk and then of course the Super Redhawk. Which one do you have, have shot, would recommend and why and also have you have ever had any malfunctions with it.

Myself I prefer a Revolver with a 7 to 8 " Barrel and don't mind the extra weight for the intended use. I definitely will stay with my favorite Caliber which is .44 Rem Magnum.

Thank you in advance
GB


I guess you are asking me?

My Redhawk was bought used in April ‘97. It’s a 7.5” Stainless with the hunter option (Ruger Scope mount grooves cut into the top of the barrel).

It came with the factory wooden grips and in full power beat the hell out of me. I tried Pachmyer grips and they did not fill my hand. I tried the now discontinued Uncle Mikes rubber grip and they are just the ticket for me.

A year and a half later I bought a Smith Mountain Gun In .44 Mag. (My true defense gun)

In 2000 I bought a Super Red hawk with a 9.5” barrel. I figured on a barrel chop for that one to trim it to around 5”. It never happened because I fell in love of that very long barrel due to sight radius and adding a peep sight.

I am not going to argue with your barrel length choice but merely want to mention that for my taste a 4 or 5” barrel (My Smith MG is 4”) suits me just fine for all self defense. The 7.5” and longer barrels suit me for hunting.

A few years ago I traded my 9.5” Super RH in .44 Mag for a Super RH in .480 Ruger in Target Stainless and a 7.5” barrel.

I love the 480!

Both the RH and SRH are built like tanks. They are tougher and more capable than your SBH. The cylinders are .050” longer and with a boolit with a crimp groove suitably located you can seat them out farther giving you more powder space. That and the beefiness, you have one tough hombre!

I began comparing grip frame angles and find the Redhawk has more of a “target” angle than the Smiths or the Super RH. The Redhawk will feel more like your Super Black hawk. The Super RH and Smith are more angled.

This affects recoil management. The more a grip frame is perpendicular to the barrel, the sooner your wrist will fully extend upon firing. Remember, the DA revolvers do not roll up in your hand as you single action gun does. Whatever a DA dishes out, you own it.

The Smiths and the Super RH has a grip frame that allows your wrist to lean forward and as such you have more rotation time before your wrist stops moving.

Now grips really change things again and the Super RH and the Smiths have more choices than the Redhawk.

As far as reliability my Smith has quit twice and both break downs were fixed right there as a walk in where I bought it.

The Rugers have not broken but after I had the triggers worked on, they both have to use a certain primer (old school Federal primers). If I put the factory springs back on, I am sure they would work 100% with any large pistol primer as they did before the alteration.

Accuracy: When I had a scope rail on my Redhawk and a Bushnel Hollowsight (civilian EOTECH) I was about 80% on golf balls at 35 yds while leaning over a front tractor tire. (RCBS 250K and HS6 powder).

The SRH factory grip is smooth and rather small, you may need to swap to a more hand filling one. The RH wooden grip will likely pound you more than your SBH does and the choices are less numerous. (Because The SA Ruger rolls up and the DA revolvers do not)

If you could handle any choices and fire them some it would be helpful before you lay the cash down.

It is a shame that Uncle Mike does not make grips any more for the RH, I do see them used on E-bay from time to time but your hand size matters. My hands fit into large gloves snug but I use removable liners in extra large gloves for winter if that gives you an idea if those grips might be worth searching if for.

Be glad to answer any questions I did a poor job on.

Three44s

[Graybeard96]

Thank you "Three44s" for taking the time and your detailed observations. I do have fairly big Hands and like to get a good Grip on the heavy Revolver which is not eaten up when coming into contact with Oil&Gas from Chainsaw and Brush-cutter. I ended up machining a single Aluminum Block Grip for my SA Blackhawk Bisley which fits me now perfectly and may do the same to the new Revolver which so far I was not able to locate anywhere near where I could hold it in my Hands before committing to Purchase.

Thanks again
GB

[Graybeard96]

Sounds like the bear equivalent of an 18-25 year old human male.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, 18-25 year old Bullies many of them !

Cheers

[RJM52]

Three44s should write articles for gun magazines...I have never seen it put so concisely ever before...

Like he said, it is a shame that Uncle Mike's doesn't make their grip any more....it is the only one of the Redhawk grips that fit me also. I also have a GP100 that takes the same grips as the Super Redhawk and it is much more comfortable to shoot.

If you don't mind "bigger" one of the guns you may want to look at is the Super Redhawk Tolkat.

https://ruger.com/products/superRedhawkStandard/specSheets/5517.html

It is a little heavier than the 4.2 or 5" Redhawks but the benefit of that better grip would be worth the difference...

I have the 4.2" and 3.75" Redhawks in .41 Magnum...excellent shooting guns but the grip does leave something to be desired.

Bob

[Three44s]

RJM52,

You are too kind, Thank you and best regards.

Three44s

[Jtarm]

My 2-pennies worth: for a better DA tigger, I’d go with the SRH. With the Redhawk, everything is powered by a single spring, which severely limits what can be done to improve it.

I wouldnt dream of lightening springs on a gun you may need to stop 800 lbs of angry bear. But a good gunsmith can do a lot more with the Super to give it a smoother, more even DA pull without compromising ignition.