.44 "FBI Load" ??

[Cargo]

**Mods- My apologies if this is in the wrong section**

I'm picking up a S&W M69 with a 2.75" barrel in a few weeks and I have no interest in shooting full power rds out of that little guy lol. I've owned and fired several .44 mags but they were much larger hunting guns.

So I started thinking about utilizing the .38sp FBI load concept out of a 44 magnum case.

The .38sp FBI load runs a 158gr soft lead hp around 850-925 fps. I'm thinking about running a soft lead 429421 converted into hp at about 925-975 fps. Currently the plan is to use Unique for powder.

I'm probably missing something but it seems if the bullet is the same material, larger and running approximately the same speed or a little faster it would be as good or better than the .38sp version.

Thoughts?

[Thumbcocker]

Mia 250 grain clone of the Lyman devestator hp cast of 20:1 withe the penta pins over 9 grains of power pistol in magnum brass would be where I would start.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[shooting on a shoestring]

Nothing wrong with that plan.

I’m using Herco in mine for plinkers. It’s just about a grain slower than unique and fills the case much better. Extreme spread on velocity is a little less than Unique.

I stick to 200 grain boolits in mine bc that’s my comfort level. I have fired full throttle 240 grain loads to see if it was doable. It was….but it was not fun. I’m convinced 200 grain boolits will be sufficient for any varmint I run across here in Texas.

I cast bi-alloy full wadcutters for mine. Front 1/3 is pure lead, back 2/3 are 96/2/2. They expand in water jugs to about .6” and stop in the 4th jug. The first 3 jugs get exploded. Muzzle velocity about 1150-1200 using an oddball powder 9450. It’s pretty close to 2400 and 4759.

Your planned load will probably work great for you. But you just might find you and the little Smith can get along fine running a bit faster. Happy exploring!

[charlie b]

.44 special loads? SWC HP at whatever weight you want.

[Bigslug]

I'd probably run it even slower than that. Probably not .455 Webley slow, but probably under GI .45 Hardball. You have mass, momentum, and meplat working for you.

[44MAG#1]

I have 2 of the 2.75 inch M69's and 2 of the 4.2 inch M69's and a 3 inch M629. The Skeeter Skelton load is fine and not much recoil.
I have 44 Special cases and also deep seat in 44 Mag cases too with the same load and same OAL.
If that is too much there are hundreds of 44 Special loads out there. One must look.

[Cargo]

I have 2 of the 2.75 inch M69's and 2 of the 4.2 inch M69's and a 3 inch M629. The Skeeter Skelton load is fine and not much recoil.
I have 44 Special cases and also deep seat in 44 Mag cases too with the same load and same OAL.
If that is too much there are hundreds of 44 Special loads out there. One must look.

So I'm in the right ballpark at least? I have magnum cases on the way so I'll give it a go with slow moving magnum loads or I suppose I could deep seat over a lighter charge for .44 Special loads.

[44MAG#1]

So I'm in the right ballpark at least? I have magnum cases on the way so I'll give it a go with slow moving magnum loads or I suppose I could deep seat over a lighter charge for .44 Special loads.

Yes, with the 44 Mag cases and a 250 "Keith" bullet seat to the same OAL and use the 44 Special loads or the Skelton load or a similar load.
You will get varying responses from those who shoot very little to those who have thousands of dollars of equipment and more firearms than the US Army and who shoots more than the whole US Military but deep seating is a good way to utilize Mag cases and get good results. I do it quite often when downloading with heavy 44 Special loads or regular 44 Special loads.
I even use the technique with RNFP bullets.

[Rodfac]

My Smith Model 69 with 4.25" bbl. chrono's 945 fps using .44 Special cases with home cast Mihec's 432-256 or Lyman's 429421 250 gr LSWC's when backed by 7.5 gr of Unique. (Skelton's Load) In my gun this load gives me sub-2" groups at 25 yds. The same gun, same bullet in Magnum cases with 8.3 gr. of Unique chrono's the same. Both are authoritative loads, and suitable for any and all chores & all day carry here on our farm. We've put several horses down with one or the other, in fact.

I cast with air cooled wheel weights, with just enough tin added for good mold fill out, lube with 50-50 alox/beeswax, and size to 0.430". This combination is a close match for all of my .44's throats & does not lead in several Ruger .44 specials and three Smith .44 magnums. All exhibit outstanding accuracy with it.

Best regards, Rod

[Rodfac]

I'm not a fan of deep seating in the mag cases...as I like that full throat dia. scraper band in front of the bullet to help true it up as it begins its flight. But I do like the mag cases over the specials as they don't gunk up the front of the cylinder chambers like the specials do. I've not seen excessive velocity fluctuations either, when using the mag cases with moderate speed powders: Unique, Herco, WSF etc.

Best regards, Rod

[Tim357]

Power Pistol is a good fuel as well...

[Dale53]

I have shot LOTS of .44 Specials and .44 Magnums. I agree with Rodfac regarding the Skeeter load. It is a DANDY carry load for general use. You can use either the .44 Special cases or the Magnum cases with his suggested 8.3 grs. of Unique for the same performance in your Model 69. If that is a bit too much for you, I have had GREAT results with a Group Buy 200 gr. dbl. ended wadcutter ahead of 5.0 grs. of Red Dot in .44 Special cases. It chronographs at nearly 900 fps. in my 4" .44 Special revolvers. That wide meplat hits HARD and because of it's speed has excellent penetration, too.

FWIW
Dale53

[Cosmic_Charlie]

You might want to try some faster powders in that snubbie. Perhaps some HP 38 or 231.

[Biggfoot44]

The concept has already been done , decades ago , in a factory load .

The Federal .44 Spl 200gr Lead HP .

As noted upthread , the interpretation of " low recoil " or " moderate " is very subjective , depending upon the shooter and the gun used . In the mass marketing context there are some yardsticks .

For mainstream context of big bore handguns , the yardstick is the .45acp 230gr FMJ aka hardball .

For reliable expansion of swaged lead HP being around +/- 850fps ( just like .45acp) Hardball , the bullet weight must drop below 230gr .

Any factory load in .44spl cases needs to be suitable in the most common .44spl handguns , the Charter Bulldog & similar . A load in .44Mag cases would have more e
Flexibility in that regards .

If the Tooth Fairy were to give me a major ammunition company , one of my short list to immediately introduce would be a clone of the Federal 200gr LHP ..... That actually gave the advertised velocity of 900 fps from 4 inch revolvers instead of close to 800fps .

[RJM52]

"The concept has already been done , decades ago , in a factory load .

The Federal .44 Spl 200gr Lead HP"

...very poor expander...just like the .38 FBI load...



Try something more like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTJYsc6PdEM&t=9s

[Forrest r]

+1 on the 200gr bullets in the 44spl

200gr bullets are the cat's meow in the short bbl'd/snubnosed 44spl/mags. Some testing I did a couple years ago, the top left bullet/load is my version of the "FBI" load combined with the Buffalo bore 1000fps 158gr lead hp (20A/snubnose) load. The end result is a 210gr hollow based hollow pointed swc that can do 1000fps in the snubnosed 44spl's.
https://i.imgur.com/fo57jjU.jpg

The winchester FBI bullet was a 158gr hollow based hollow pointed swc
https://i.imgur.com/KNwvR1D.jpg

I used a lyman 429422 hollow base swc mold to cast a 220gr hb swc bullet with 8/9bhn alloy. Then I used a forster hp tool and a 60* center drill to put a hp in that cast hb swc. The end result was a 210gr hb hp swc (same as the ww fbi bullet)
https://i.imgur.com/FTFbMo6.jpg

A side view of that same recovered hb hp swc bullet pictured above. Not only did the hp expand, the bullets body compressed (normal/it's supposed to), the hb expanded also.
https://i.imgur.com/Swqedh0.jpg

The bottom left of the picture with the 4 test loads is 200gr hp. That is the H&G #142 bullet, it's the H&G version of the lyman 429215 "thompson" bullet. It's 1 heck of a hp bullet for the snubnosed 44spl/mags!!!
https://i.imgur.com/3DawiR1.jpg

I try to do testing every year with the ca bulldog/snubnosed 44spl. This year I was interested in 8.0gr of power pistol and The (red) mihec #256 245gr penta point hp swc along with a cramer 200gr type III swc (green).
https://i.imgur.com/wf9hieh.jpg

I tested the 8.0gr pp loads over a chronograph and shot the right hand target @ 25ft with a 2 1/2" bbl'd ca bulldog. I was using a 6 o-clock hold (bottom of the white smaller center/1" circle). The black outer circle is 3"
https://i.imgur.com/ld6RTZd.jpg

[FISH4BUGS]

You might want to try some faster powders in that snubbie. Perhaps some HP 38 or 231.

I use an H&G # 503 with 8.5 gr WW231. Nice mid range 44 mag load. Probably equal to top end 44 special load.

[black mamba]

I use 8.0 gr of HP-38 under a 215 coated SWC for about 975 fps in my 4" model 29. Easy shooting with great accuracy.

[FergusonTO35]

Didn't the FBI or another famous agency once seriously consider adopting the .44 Special as a standard issue sidearm cartridge?

[rintinglen]

287559
MP 432-250 H.P., cast from soft lead, on top of 7.5 grains of Unique, gives about 840 FPS from my Ruger and expands in water.

[gwpercle]

Sounds a lot like the 40 S&W that everyone dropped like a hot rock and went running back to the 9mm Luger ... and don't forget how far the 41 Magnum "Police Load" got ...barely off the launching pad before they went back or stayed with 38 Special .

44 FBI Load sounds great on paper ... but I don't see any agencies giving up the magic wonder nine.

The model 58 in my avatar (41 mag.) likes : 7.5 grains of Unique and a 220 grain cast SWC .
The load was from Elmer Keith ..." Try 7.0 to 8.0 grs. Unique under one of my cast (410459) SWC's "
While not exactly a 44 FBI load it's close ... call it a 41 FBI load ...Accurate and pleasant to shoot , that's for sure !

I think the 44 and 41 "FBI" or Police loads are very useful and work well .
Gary

[Cargo]

Great info, I really appreciate all the responses so far. I ordered a Lee 200gr RFP and two Lyman 429421's this afternoon. I'd prefer an MP but I'll have the Lee to experiment with while I try to secure something better.

[derek45]

10.0gr UNIQUE with a 240gr SWC makes a nice load

https://i.imgur.com/Hp3jimY.jpg

[Cargo]

10.0gr UNIQUE with a 240gr SWC makes a nice load

https://i.imgur.com/Hp3jimY.jpg

Any concerns with over penetration using that load for SD?

[RickinTN]

Any concerns with over penetration using that load for SD?

Probably only if you're talking about the 3rd or 4th bad guy in line.
Rick

[Shuz]

My .44mag "FBI load "is an MP 432-423 cup hollow point at 190g powered by either 10g of Unique or 9g of Green Dot. Velocity is greater than 1050fps and expansion is phenomenal in wet phone books.

[smkummer]

Don’t really need to over think this. If you find the skeeter load has too much recoil, back it off. Lately I have been shooting a lot of 240 RN or 245 Keith with a max charge of 700X ( close to 5 grains) for about 750 FPS in my charter target 44 special 4”. I carry that gun with the skeeter load but enjoy the lighter load much more. A 44 cal. Bullet doesn’t need to expand to be effective.
Infamously son of Sam was a cowardly murderous punk with the factory standard round nose of the time probably barely making 700 FPS out of the 3” bulldog.

[MT Gianni]

In a 4"-6" revolver with 240-260 gr bullets, 6.5 gr Red Dot will be about 950 -1000 fps and accurate all day long. No idea of velocity in a snub gun.

[Rapier]

I had the oppertunity to shoot a friends custom 29 in 2” Magna Port DA gun with a round butt, it was suprisingly controllable. The 44 requires no expansion at all to do the job and you can use a 25 or -2 to do the same thing using the old auto rim SWC bullets, Lyman Mould.

[Good Cheer]

This is a .45 round nose mold that was hollow pointed.
http://i.imgur.com/38o7yNM.jpg (https://imgur.com/38o7yNM)
I'd want more or less the same thing only in .44, gas checked and cast soft.

[Cargo]

This is a .45 round nose mold that was hollow pointed.
http://i.imgur.com/38o7yNM.jpg (https://imgur.com/38o7yNM)
I'd want more or less the same thing only in .44, gas checked and cast soft.
Did Erik @ HPBS convert your mold? What was your original mold and your bullet weight after conversion?

[Good Cheer]

Did Erik @ HPBS convert your mold? What was your original mold and your bullet weight after conversion?

Yes sir, that's an Erik Ohlen work of art. Still have some of the round noses from years ago. With gas check and lube they weigh 244 grains. With the hollow point conversion they weigh just under 233 grains. Plenty of weight and a mouth like a fruit jar.

The original mold was a #452484, from a Lyman mail order factory seconds sale*. When they set up the machining the cherry extended into the blocks a little further than their QC Dept would put up with because it changed the weight on the bullets. I got a listing in the mail and bought a number of "seconds" that didn't have a thing wrong with them except for being beyond the weight specified in Lyman's advertisements.

*That's when my cat had her second littler so it must have been about 1982 [smilie=l: