Question on Lithium/Beeswax Bullet Lube

[CJR]

I currently use LBT Blue lube and I'm happy with it. Prior to using LBT Blue, I used the NRA Alox 2138F/beeswax formula. Recently, I've been reviewing the NRA Cast Bullet Manual and its comments on using straight lithium grease as a bullet lube. Apparently, before the Alox/beeswax mixture was developed, the NRA stated that lithium grease was the most accurate lube based on NRA testing. The NRA then stated that because lithium grease couldn't be used in lubrisizers, it use was dropped and the Alox formula developed. The NRA also stated the Alox formula equaled the lithium grease in accuracy. There was also mention of placing a kapok or dacron wad over a powder charge and then putting a few grains of lithium grease directly on the wad before seating the bullet. Accuracy with this technique was good and there was no leading. Some reloaders mentioned to the NRA that after eighteen (18) months these loads performed just like fresh loads, implying the lithium grease did not contaminate the powder. I assume this occurred because lithium grease is not sensitive to high or low temperatures. The NRA also successfully used lithium grease on paper-patched bullets.

On this website and others, there are simple formulas to thicken lithium grease with beeswax so that it will work in lubrisizers. Has anyone run tests comparing the accuracy of lithium grease/beeswax loads with loads using other lubes like the NRA Alox formula, LBT blue, or others?

Best regards,

CJR

[buck1]

Lithium grease 1 part, bees wax 3parts, Carnauba wax (small amounts) to thicken to desired thickness.
Tested side by side in a .308 up to 2500 fps with LBT, in hot weather, and in cold.
No migration trouble in the New Mexico summers, and in every one of my tests...
The litlium out profromed the LBT, NRA 50/50, and several home brews.

I posted this a wile back.......
""This one works well for high vel rifle as well as mag pistol in hot and COLD weather.
It stays on the boolits well, does not run on hot days, and flows without heat through my lube sizer.
I love this stuff! Its a cross between Joes/ leftoverjds with a few tricks from Felixs WFL.
In a crock pot melt 3 parts bees wax and 1 part lithum wheel bearing grease. to about 300 F its hard to mix.
-----Caution this is close to the flash point of the bees wax.---------
Mix, mix and mix some more and let cool. as bees wax can vary in hardness you can now get a rough idea of what you have. Look for a uniform mix (no little lumps) of the grease.
Now reheat and mix again as you still most likely have some little lumps to deal with and add small ammounts of carnauba wax to stiffen (paraffin would mess up the cold weather aspect of this lube).
Repeate this melting and testing several times untill you get the stiffness you like. It seems to help the lube mix better by cooling and reheating many times anyway. But do it outside and dont forget about the flash point.
Nothing else that I have made or bought will do as well for me as this stuff! ""

[sniper7369]

Has anybody actually tried straight lithium grease for boolit lube? I was out in the garage the other day wondering if it would work or not. :?:

[Buckshot]

.............There WAS a lithium/beeswax lube out there for awile called, "Lithi-Bee". Last I heard it was made by a guy in Arkansas. I haven't seen any offered for sale, nor have I heard about it for years so I assume he no longer is in business?

.................Buckshot

[RogerWatsonfromIdaho]

CJR,
No, I have not. I am using a lithium grease/beeswax bullet lube to prevent leading.

buck1,
My lube is 1 part beeswax to 4 parts lithium grease, which must much softer than yours.

sniper7369,
Yes I have. It did work. It was so soft that the lithium grease got on the bullet nose and the bullet base and up my seating die and on my fingers, etc. I added beeswax to stiffen the bullet lube.

[Randall]

It has been a few years back I was talking to Blue Star reloading[also from Arkansas] at the big Tulsa gun show asking about Lithi Bee and they told me the formula was 1 tube of grease gun size Texaco grease[for the color] and beeswax to fill a 3 pound coffee can add parrafin to harden if needed and stir until it begins to harden. The man I talked to said he knew the maker and that he was retired and they were looking for someone to make the lube. I was also told they made other lubes too. I made a can of it probably 15 years ago and have used the better part of it. Thanks to a member here I now have some beeswax to make some more. It is an excellent lube but kind of smokey. It flows well in the summer but in the winter I have to put a drop light against the lubrisizer to warm it.
Randall

[felix]

Ideally, you want the lithium component to be no more than about 8 percent on a molecular basis. Use lithium stearate to make your own lithium lube up front, and then use that to mix with beeswax. Carnauba is a good additive to maintain the barrel shine. Lithium has MAJOR viscosity, and that makes the final lube hard to control on an application basis. Substitute the sodium stearate (ivory) with lithium stearate in the typical felix lube. There is no need for lanolin when using lithium. They do the same thing. Also, don't even think of using lithium in any lube for BP. You might never get it out of the barrel using water as the solute. ... felix

[Glen]

The automotive moly grease that I use in my lube is lithium based (it just has moly and a little graphite thrown in for good measure). I use equal parts by weight moly grease and beeswax, and melt it in a Pyrex measuring cup in the microwave and pour it into the lube-sizer. Works great! I've used this lube for about 15 years now. I've gotten good results with it in all kinds of cast loads, some as fast as 2300 fps.

[felix]

Which automotive one, Glen? ... felix

[seagiant]

Hi,
I have used Glen's receipe ever since I heard him mention it. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel. The mix is easy to make and only involves two ingredients and I have used it for everything I shoot! The only down side is that it does smoke alittle but they all do and I shoot at an outdoor range, so no problem. Being in Florida I have used a little parrafin to stiffen the mix up for summer,but will now look into carnauba for that!

[Glen]

Felix --

The grease I use is called Sta-Lube Extreme Pressure Moly-Graph Multi-Purpose Grease. It sells at the local auto parts stores for something like $3 for a 14 ounce can. I looked around at a couple of second-hand and liquidation stores and found a place selling tubes of it (for grease guns) at about a buck and a half each, so I bought all they had (something like 8 or 10), so I should be set for a while...

[sniper7369]

sniper7369,
Yes I have. It did work. It was so soft that the lithium grease got on the bullet nose and the bullet base and up my seating die and on my fingers, etc. I added beeswax to stiffen the bullet lube.

Thanks. :mrgreen:

I'm going to have to mix up some of the stuff Glen is using for my 9mm loads with the 90gr boolit and see how it works. :drinks:

[felix]

Thanks, Glen, I am familiar with that one. But, I have never played with it. ... felix

[CJR]

Thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate it! I'm going to make-up some lithium grease/beeswax, etc. lube and run some tests.

Another thing that appeals to me about using lithium grease is in the development of high velocity loads. Years ago, the NRA did a great job evaluating which cast bullet forms were accurate and which cast bullet forms were inaccurate. It wasn't long after the NRA published that data that many poor mould designs were no longer available. Unfortunately, some of the aerodynamically accurate cast bullet forms/designs have a fixed or small amount of grease groove volume and as a result they tend to be velocity limited. Increasing velocity, with these designs, tends to use up the lube before the bullet reaches the muzzle. Once the barrel leading starts, the load is typically reduced to prevent barrel leading and maintain accuracy. The ability to place additional straight lithium grease over a kapok or dacron wad, behind the bullet, helps to delay the barrel leading. This then enables one to keep on increasing the velocity until some other factor, like pressure, limits it.

Best regards,

CJR

[CJR]

Thanks for all the responses. I really appreciate it! I'm going to make-up some lithium grease/beeswax, etc. lube and run some tests.

Another thing that appeals to me about using lithium grease is in the development of high velocity loads. Years ago, the NRA did a great job evaluating which cast bullet forms were accurate and which cast bullet forms were inaccurate. It wasn't long after the NRA published that data that many poor mould designs were no longer available. Unfortunately, some of the aerodynamically accurate cast bullet forms/designs have a fixed or small amount of grease groove volume and as a result they tend to be velocity limited. Increasing velocity, with these designs, tends to use up the lube before the bullet reaches the muzzle. Once the barrel leading starts, the load is typically reduced to prevent barrel leading and maintain accuracy. The ability to place additional straight lithium grease over a kapok or dacron wad, behind the bullet, helps to delay the barrel leading. This then enables one to keep on increasing the velocity until some other factor, like pressure, limits it.

Best regards,

CJR

[yodar]

.............There WAS a lithium/beeswax lube out there for awile called, "Lithi-Bee". Last I heard it was made by a guy in Arkansas. I haven't seen any offered for sale, nor have I heard about it for years so I assume he no longer is in business?

.................Buckshot

I have been using a Lithium - beeswax recipe provided by a professional caster for years in all my pistol bullets. Since Adrian Pittfield gave me the recipe I call it Adrian's Goo. it's soft, works fine with all pistol and makes MUCH less smoke than beeswax-alox :
1 lb Beeswax
1 tube Lithium grease (1 lb)
melt together not exceeding 275 dF (Flash point)

For rifle I use John Paul Jones' Saeco Green recipe ":
1# STP
1# Paraffin
1 # Beeswax
add all the green candle or crayons you need to color it green

hardern' nails, needs heat, works excellent for SKS

yodar

[35remington]

CJR, I'd avoid using straight lithium grease, even with a wad, as some "oils" seep out of the grease and have potential to contaminate the powder. It's just a matter of lithium grease being too free flowing to be a good bullet lube. I wouldn't trust ANY ammo stored with it in the hopes it would fire. Some contamination of the powder is inevitable. Straight lithium grease will cause powder to stick and be inactivated. If using dacron, you need to hope that the wad keeps the grease from migrating.

If used on or near the base of the bullet, it ought to be lithium/beeswax rather than straight lithium grease even with a wad.

The beeswax as a stiffening agent is essential IMO. Straight lithi grease in lube grooves has the potential to seep in hot weather, and the "oil" (temperature thinning) tends to seep out of it as well.

[EDK]

.............There WAS a lithium/beeswax lube out there for awile called, "Lithi-Bee". Last I heard it was made by a guy in Arkansas. I haven't seen any offered for sale, nor have I heard about it for years so I assume he no longer is in business?

.................Buckshot


IIRC It was CHOATE MACHINE & TOOL, Bald Knob AR. They were big in zytel stocks for Mini-14s and 870/1100s back in the late 70s/early 80s when the survivalists were pretty big. Remember SURVIVE magazine? Long time ago!

The lube was a reddish color....worked great in handgun calibers and my 45/70.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[Tinbullet]

Google search Lithi bee bullet lube for the address.

[kevin45acp]

.............There WAS a lithium/beeswax lube out there for awile called, "Lithi-Bee". Last I heard it was made by a guy in Arkansas. I haven't seen any offered for sale, nor have I heard about it for years so I assume he no longer is in business?

.................Buckshot

It was made in Muskegon, MI last I knew. I got mine form this guy. Good stuff.

LITHI BEE BULLET LUBE

Pat

Voice: 1-231-788-4479

[leftiye]

Does anyone know where to get lithium stearate?

[felix]

Witco. ... felix

[felix]

FERRO CORPORATION
7050 Krick Road - Walton Hills, Ohio 44146-4494
Phone (216) 641-8580 - Fax (216) 750-6729

Go here instead of to Witco, which has changed its product mix after being incorporated into another company(s). ... felix

[yodar]

.............There WAS a lithium/beeswax lube out there for awile called, "Lithi-Bee". Last I heard it was made by a guy in Arkansas. I haven't seen any offered for sale, nor have I heard about it for years so I assume he no longer is in business?

.................Buckshot

A professional Caster in Germany told me about it years before I learned it was called "Lithi-Bee" Since Adrian gave me his Lithi-bee preparation "destructions" I have always called it "Adrian's Goo"

I selected it because it smokes far less than Alox-Beeswax and 2138 ALOX isnt around anymore.

1 lb grease gun cartidge into a pot with 1 lb of Beeswax, brought slowly to 275 degrees with gentle stirring. It is a softer lube that requires no heat (the name describes it well)

If I want it stiffer I add 1 lb paraffin

I also used John Paul's SAECO green made of euqal weigths of STP, Paraffin and beeswax (needs a heater)

yodar

[leftiye]

Thanks Felix, I googled it, but just got the usual mess.

[parkerhale1200]

I am very aware that this is a very old post

Instead of Carnauba wax has anybody tried coconut oil/fat in there mix(50/50) to lower the melting point?.

The main goal would be to put the boolits in a tray in the oven at 80-90C

If this was asked before i apologize, i could not find the right topic on this.

With best regards

[kavemankel]

Not sure if you would want it that low of a melting point.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I am very aware that this is a very old post

Instead of Carnauba wax has anybody tried coconut oil/fat in there mix(50/50) to lower the melting point?.

The main goal would be to put the boolits in a tray in the oven at 80-90C

If this was asked before i apologize, i could not find the right topic on this.

With best regards

I don't think the melt temp of 50/50 (Lithium grease/BW) can be lowered by adding oils.
I believe your only option to lower the melt point, will be to find another brand of lithium grease that has a lower melt temp then the lithium grease you are using now.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

not sure if you would want it that low of a melting point.

fyi.
90º c = 194º f