What mould copies Sierra Matchkings?

[Castnshoot]

I'm curious to know what moulds imitate Sierra Matchkings in profile. Ideas?

[felix]

LBT has "exact copies" but with a modified shape slightly for more bearing friction that is required for cast performance. ... felix

[Maven]

I believe Aladdin's (Jay Downs) custom Lee Precision .30HBC (High Ballistic Coefficient) was a clone of the Sierra Match King.

[ddeaton]

LBT has "exact copies" but with a modified shape slightly for more bearing friction that is required for cast performance. ... felix

Maybe a dumb question, but who is LBT? :confused:

[Maven]

LBT = Lead Bullet Technology (Veral Smith, Moyie Springs, ID)

[Castnshoot]

LBT's are expensive though! Does the price offset the attention paid to the gas check area?

[felix]

Elaborate, please. ... felix

[ddeaton]

LBT = Lead Bullet Technology (Veral Smith, Moyie Springs, ID)

You guys have been holding out on me! Always something new to look at and spend money for.:Fire:

I can only guess by a picture on their website, they are aluminum? That is high price for aluminum.

[Castnshoot]

Elaborate, please. ... felix

They guarantee a slip on gas check fit, and that many sizers/lubers can be a problem with shaving lead when crimping the gas check onto the bullet. They recommend a Star:

To take advantage of the Stars potential with gas checked bullets, the pusher punch must be fairly close to sizer diameter, having about .010 to .015 undersize. Then its end needs to be cupped out a few thousandths so only about a 1/32 inch wide contact ring is left around the perimeter. This so all pressure is applied around the outer edge of the GC base, straddling any raised sprue etc. A punch of this description pushed GC’s on if they are a bit tight, then size them on with perfect concentricity to the bullet body, and perfect squareness around the critical perimeter of the heel.

By contrast, the other sizers crimp the GC on before any of the bullet enters the die, so if the check shank has any deformities, or if the check shaves lead a bit on one side when pressed on, the check, being far stronger than lead, will force the bullet to size out of balance at the base end.

That’s not a problem with LBT moulds because we guarantee a slip on gas check fit, which prevents checks from shaving and going off center at all, and unlike cherried moulds, our check shanks are perfectly concentric to the bullet.

At any rate, this tiny, and probably invisible bit of press formed precision can shrink groups from 2-3 inched down to tack holes! DO NOT OVER LOOK IT!

[felix]

Saeco sizers use the same technique as was explained for the Star. What is the point of your discussion for what you want to know? ... felix

[Pat I.]

I don't think I'd say an LBT is an exact copy of a Match King or even close. The only one I know of that came close was that HBC bullet. LBTs are expensive but you get exactly what you order, they're as round as you're going to get, and they cast like a dream. I have about 20 of them and every one is perfect. My advice is to stick with conventional bullet designs and forget about trying to get a .500 BC out of a cast bullet. If you're a glutton for punishment I have one of those HBC moulds that I'd sell you for $25 shipped. It has to be Beagled because it casts .307 on one side with WW.

[Pat I.]

A Lee Push Through does it too.

[Castnshoot]

Well, I'm looking to begin hunting this year. I was going to last year, but got into reloading and casting first. I'm almost set between a .308 or a .270 caliber, and have pretty much set on getting all the loading and casting equipment for any new caliber I begin to shoot. I've seen/heard that Sierra Matchkings are the best profile, so I wanted to duplicate that with my own cast boolits. If there's no need to get the most expensive equipment, I won't. I just want what works.

[Pat I.]

If you're going to use cast bullets in the gun you buy go with the 30 caliber for the simple reason that there's so many more moulds available, and because it works. Matchkings are target bullets and are designed to have a high BC. You're going to be buying more moulds anyway so if you're starting with a 308 I'd recommend the RCBS 165 Sil. It's a good bullet and seems to shoot good in a lot of rifles.

[felix]

Maybe you should then be asking about hunting calibers (case size & boolit size/shape) and provide the maximum range you expect. That closes the can of worms you opened earlier. There are plenty of folks on this board who are better qualified than I am to talk about that. ... felix

[Bret4207]

Castnshoot- the Sierra Matchking isn't a hunting bullet, that design is rather fickle in cast and there are a lot better designs for hunting available. Do what Uncle Felix said and define your hunting requirements and maybe we can help from there, and as Pat said- get the 308.

[Castnshoot]

Ok, I was thinking along the lines of using another bullet for practice with the rifle, but then that defeats the purpose of practicing with my hunting load. :? Very practical, I must say.

Anywhoo, I'd like a hunting rifle that, if I had to, could be used in self defense. I know, it won't be my first option, but an option nonetheless.

[scb]

This is a little OT but, FWIW I haven't had a lot of luck sizing "pointed" boolets in my star lube sizer. It is because the next boolet being sized finishes pushing the last one thru. I end up with a dimple in the gas check and the point at least slightly deformed point. I don't think alignment is very good either when sizing point first. I've tried using a separate "plunger" to push the sized boolet thru which works but all that screwing around defeats the purpose of the star, and I can size and lube them quicker in the Saeco. If there is a good way to run pointed boolets thru a star I sure would love to know it.

[Pat I.]

Get a 30-30.

[garandsrus]

Scb,

I lube pointy boolits using a separate "plunger", which is just a boolit that is a smaller caliber. It does slow things down a little, but not much since the "plunger" falls out of the die with the sized and lubed boolit.

I haven't had problems with alignment. I think that they are much better aligned than is possible with the RCBS or Lyman sizers I have. The punch I use is only a few .001's less than the boolit size.

John

[scb]

Yea John your right, alignment isn't an issue when your not pushing the previous boolet thru. Steve

[trk]

I believe Aladdin's (Jay Downs) custom Lee Precision .30HBC (High Ballistic Coefficient) was a clone of the Sierra Match King.

It may in fact be close, but we started with the Speer bullet. (I did the cad work.)

[Maven]

Thanks for the correction, trk!

[Bret4207]

Castnshoot- What Pat said- get a 30-30, 35 Rem, 357, 44, 45 in a lever gun if you want a dual purpose SD/Hunting rifle. Auto loaders and cast can be finicky, especially on COAL and getting enough oomph! to cycle the action while maintaining a reasonable barrel condition. It can be done. If you want to go that route I'd suggest the SKS. It's about the easiest of the auto loaders to get running right with cast from what I've seen and is adequate for deer at 30-30 ranges given the right boolit and good shot placement.

If you already have a gun in mind lets hear about it, maybe we can help.

[Castnshoot]

I was thinking that the longest range where I live is about 300 yards tops. I've heard that the top two hunting rifles are the Savage and Winchester 70. I'm really not sure if they can be had in different calibers, what they are, and if it is even worth having an autoloader for hunting, as I haven't researched them like that yet. I'm confused.

[Pat I.]

Buy a Savage in .308 and use the savings for a good scope and you'll be happy. Cast and jacketed are two different games and you'll find you'll want to shoot cast bullets just for the enjoyment of it and not only as practice for your hunting rifle, although there's no reason you can't since everything else is the same.

Leave the home defense stuff for a shotgun or better yet a BIG dog.

[Castnshoot]

Buy a Savage in .308 and use the savings for a good scope and you'll be happy. Cast and jacketed are two different games and you'll find you'll want to shoot cast bullets just for the enjoyment of it and not only as practice for your hunting rifle, although there's no reason you can't since everything else is the same.

Leave the home defense stuff for a shotgun or better yet a BIG dog.

.308 can be loaded nicely for medium sized deer at average distances, right?

[jameslovesjammie]

Absolutely.