Powders (gun) reacting with PC

[remy3424]

I have not been keeping loaded ammo very long that have been loaded with PC coated boolits, having read about gun powder reaction with cured PC. Back in May (date is on my vials), I put a tablespoon or so of Unique, WSF & Titegroup in emptied presciption med containers and added 2 or 3 PCed (Smokes PC) boolits. Already the Titegroup & WSF seem to be softening the PC, the gloss is gone and the gun powder is sticking to them. The Unique does not seem to be affecting the PC. I was hoping any reaction might take years not months or weeks. I am concerned with the long-term storage problems. Should this be a concern, as it will only be the base exposed to the gun powder? Will that softening of the PC migrate up the bullet inside the case? I am relatively new to the PC and some of you fellas have been at this for a decade...anyone have any PC coated boolits loaded for some amount of time (stored boolits down-with a double based powder) and pulled them to see what was happening? How about shot PCed boolits that should have reacted with a double based powder, and if any PC left in the barrel or other issues?

I have read that folks decided it was only the double based powders only that were reacting with the PC, is this accurate? So, I assume that TG and WSF are double base powders and Unique is not, it that right? Is there a good source or way to detemine which are double based powders?

Thanks for any input/experience you can offer.

[Conditor22]

The first/most important factor is --- DID YOU GET A COMPLETE CURE ON THE PC -- BAKE IT TO MANUFACTURERS SPECIFICATIONS.
iF NOT, ALL BETS ARE OFF.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?370234-Most-people-ARE-NOT-baking-PC-long-enough

these are from before I looked up the manufacturers' specifications AND made sure my ovens were actually reaching 400°

https://i.imgur.com/TKxI30a.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/074KfeA.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/HQRAL7j.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0mTdr7O.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/dfIMzno.jpg

[remy3424]

Temp checked my counter-top convection oven, pre-heat, bake about 25 minutes, so ya, they should be cured. No leading. Are your's still doing that (gunpowder reacting with the pc) once you figured-out the baking process? Is BE a double based powder?

Mine in the powder for just a couple months weren't sticking anything like that, but some powder did still stick to them, they felt a little tacky almost. The ones in Unique were fine....that is not the powder I would choose for my 9mms, maybe 45ACPs.

[la5676]

Temp checked my counter-top convection oven, pre-heat, bake about 25 minutes, so ya, they should be cured. No leading. Are your's still doing that (gunpowder reacting with the pc) once you figured-out the baking process? Is BE a double based powder?

Mine in the powder for just a couple months weren't sticking anything like that, but some powder did still to them, they felt a little tacky almost. The ones in Unique were fine....that is not the powder I would choose for my 9mms, maybe 45ACPs.

I have been told all ball powders are double base powders. Hodgdon has some single base, their Extreme line of powder. That's about all I know about that.

[Leadmad]

When I first started Powder coating 4 years ago the same story came up with powder affecting the PC finish on cast bullets and I did exactly as you have a half dozen coated bullets in a pill bottle with some tite group being its the powder I use most of, I would check them every couple months or so and now dont even bother as last time I looked a year or so back the cast bullets were still bright and shiny with no noticeable difference to ones Im coating now, something is not right if you are seeing a reaction

Cheers

[farmerjim]

I pulled a few that are 3 years old. All are fine.
As Conditor22 stated the powder must be fully cured.

[djgoings]

Just store the ammo boxes upside down. Unless you have a compress load, the powder will not be in contact with the bullet.

[remy3424]

Interesting replies.

res45 PMed me a utube link where a fella, tested 16 powders and only 3 reacted..Bullseye, Titegroup and BE-86.

Here is the list that did NOT react: No. 5, No. 7, 2400, Unique, CFE 223, H110, H 4895, 700-X, CFE Pistol, Universal, IMR 4198, 3031 & W 231.

In the video, the fella used 4 colors of Eastwood PC and 2 different HyTek boolits. I am using Smokes, is Eastwood PC the same type as Smokes? I know there are polymer, epoxy and maybe other types PCs.

Conditor, Jim and Leadmad, what brand of PC are you using that BE or TG is not affecting??

Does anyone know enough about powders to say what TG, BE and BE-86 have in common? Or those double base and the others are not???

In the video, he also stored some PCed loaded rounds with one of the reactive powders vertically, boolit-up and he thought there was no evidence of gassing of the powder affecting the PC on the base. I don't remember him saying he tested both the PC & HyTek in loaded rounds.

Maybe I will bake some for 30 minutes and test those again in TD and WSF. They all shoot well currently and don't leave lead or PC in barrels (handguns only-no rifles)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N9WtEZxn5c See if this link works for the video, it looks to be Part 5 of a series the guy did on this subject.

[Conditor22]

SMOKELESS POWDERS DATABASE

https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/search.php

BE
https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/search.php?s_reference=&s_content_source=&s_source_reference=&s_product_use=&s_distributor=&s_product_name=bullseye&s_date_obtained=&s_lot_number=&s_date_analyzed=&s_manufacturer=&s_date_manufactured=&s_notes=&s_shape_id=&s_color_id=&s_luster_id=&s_dia_min=&s_dia_max=&s_dia_avg=&s_dia_tol=&s_length_min=&s_length_max=&s_len_avg=&s_len_tol=&display_image=20

https://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?s_reference=&s_content_source=&s_source_reference=&s_product_use=&s_distributor=&s_product_name=bullseye&s_date_obtained=&s_lot_number=&s_date_analyzed=&s_manufacturer=&s_date_manufactured=&s_notes=&s_shape_id=&s_color_id=&s_luster_id=&s_dia_min=&s_dia_max=&s_dia_avg=&s_dia_tol=&s_length_min=&s_length_max=&s_len_avg=&s_len_tol=&display_image=20&powder_id=106

[Conditor22]

Interesting replies.

res45 PMed me a utube link where a fella, tested 16 powders and only 3 reacted..Bullseye, Titegroup and BE-86. ==== Doubles Base

Here is the list that did NOT react: No. 5, No. 7, 2400, Unique, CFE 223, H110, H 4895, 700-X, CFE Pistol, Universal, IMR 4198, 3031 & W 231. -- many are Doubles Base

In the video, the fella used 4 colors of Eastwood PC and 2 different HyTek boolits. I am using Smokes, is Eastwood PC the same type as Smokes? I know there are polymer, epoxy and maybe other types PCs. These don't ASBBDT worth a darn we generally use Polyester mostly TGIC powder

Conditor, Jim and Leadmad, what brand of PC are you using that BE or TG is not affecting?? I use a lot of Cardinal and Tiger Drylac
propper bake time and temperature is the key --- Reach manufacturers specified FULL CURE for optimal results

Does anyone know enough about powders to say what TG, BE and BE-86 have in common? Or those double base and the others are not???

In the video, he also stored some PCed loaded rounds with one of the reactive powders vertically, boolit-up and he thought there was no evidence of gassing of the powder affecting the PC on the base. I don't remember him saying he tested both the PC & HyTek in loaded rounds.

Maybe I will bake some for 30 minutes and test those again in TD and WSF. They all shoot well currently and don't leave lead or PC in barrels (handguns only-no rifles)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N9WtEZxn5c See if this link works for the video, it looks to be Part 5 of a series the guy did on this subject.

The above link gives you data on smokeless powder

[Dragonheart]

Guys, year after year, we keep beating this old dead horse. I put this argument to bed years ago to my satisfaction. If you don't cure PC properly then you are going to have problems and what you have is an under cured PC.

I don't know how many times it has been posted, get a good thermometer like a Taylor Oven Guide. The dial on these cheap toaster ovens are typically worthless.

Put the thermometer where you can see that the oven is actually at 400 degrees. Then add time because "All" the bullets have to reach 400° before PC timing starts. The thermometer only registers the air temperature, so just because the air temperature in the oven is at 400° does not mean the bullets are 400°. If you don't use a thermometer then you don't have a clue as to what is going on. Your oven might not even be capable of reaching 400° and holding it.

If you want to be completely sure you have a proper cure, build a thermocouple, its cheap and easy.

[Leadmad]

Remy3424 the bullets that were coated sitting in the Tite group were coated with East wood powder, I also store my bullets upside down in the MTM cases just out of habit but really no need to,

Cheers

[Tar Heel]

Guys, year after year, we keep beating this old dead horse. I put this argument to bed years ago to my satisfaction. If you don't cure PC properly then you are going to have problems and what you have is an under cured PC.

One of many that keep appearing.