caliber question

[BunkTheory]

Yes, dont laugh ive picked the really worst time to want to get a handgun. Endless supply of people with covid checks ruining things like prices, and product availability is not a good time to decide to purchase a firearm.

I need something that is good for DEFENDING from a black bear. They be wobbling up on the front deck at night. And wandering the yard in the daytime. Had one get run over last month and it weight 450 lb.

I have nerve damage in my hands. Only have shot a friends 357 and 22lr. His 357 was supposed to weigh 40 ounces empty.

The store bought standard 38 +p and 357 magnum 158 grain loads felt the same on my hands and wrists. Just a little bit different in the noise through plugs. Shot some 158 grain SWC with a full book load of 2400. Those were pretty noisy. And snapped me the worst. The others i could shoot one handed, these i didnt like that from what i recall.

My thought was to purchase a 44 magnum. And just use standard bullets 200 to 240 grain and just stay at mild velocities. 8 to 1000 fps. Ideally was thinking a DEWC in 220 grains and seeing what it could do.

But with 44 magnums literally unobtainable online, and search engines bringing up gun ads from 2016, is it better to just get a heavy weight 357 magnum and try to load up the 170 to 200 grain bullets and hoping a cylinder full doesnt over do my wrists?

[recumbent]

Have you thought about a 12 ga shotgun with slugs??

[Remiel]

Find a friend that has roughly what your looking for like you did with the 357 before you decide, with a 44 its going to be a test and see if your hands can handle the recoil with the nerve issues, I found out that there is a difference between full power/hot loads in a 357 mag and a 454 casull, I would assume that there is also increased recoil from a 44 compared to a 357. Since none of my friends have or will let me shoot a 44 I can only guess based off of reading and others experience. Also ammo/components are going to be a factor with some being unobtainium.

Now in my area we only have black bear, so I keep a 10mm Glock 20 at hand.

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[Remiel]

Have you thought about a 12 ga shotgun with slugs??Can't hide a 12ga in a drawer near the door I'm assuming. But a nice short coach gun would do the trick.

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[26Charlie]

A Ruger Blackhawk .41 or .44 magnum 7 1/2 “ barrel single action, with their Bisley grip frame would be good for your hands. The comfort of the Bisley grip is one of the world’s best kept secrets, IMHO.

[MrWolf]

I have some nerve damage in my right hand also. I could not shoot my Ruger .41 with factory grips. I switched to the Hogue and what a difference. I can actually shoot and enjoy. Really like the .41. Good luck.

[1006]

I would look at a Glock 20, 10mm if you are only interested in pistols and you think 10mm/357 power is enough.

For a cheap fix, Baer Mace might help:

Check with your state’s Department of Natural Resources, this stuff might help scare them off.

https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/udap-magnum-bear-spray-2-pack-with-griz-guard-holster?hvarAID=shopping_googleproductextensions&ds_e=GOOGLE&ds_c=Shop%7CGeneric%7CAllProducts%7CHigh%7CSSCCatc hAll&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu7OIBhCsARIsALxCUaMyRNRb4uDmyBYlO7tJ R16twpwEopg_gTCgxG9clmsRKfNCFryqwJIaArwlEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[GhostHawk]

I second the shotgun, any shotgun.

First round at range make it birdshot, it will sting but should not kill at 60+ yards. If it does not get, put it down hard.

Right now that bear figures your back yard is his territory. You need to give him a good reason to think otherwise.

[Scrounge]

Yes, dont laugh ive picked the really worst time to want to get a handgun. Endless supply of people with covid checks ruining things like prices, and product availability is not a good time to decide to purchase a firearm.

I need something that is good for DEFENDING from a black bear. They be wobbling up on the front deck at night. And wandering the yard in the daytime. Had one get run over last month and it weight 450 lb.

I have nerve damage in my hands. Only have shot a friends 357 and 22lr. His 357 was supposed to weigh 40 ounces empty.

The store bought standard 38 +p and 357 magnum 158 grain loads felt the same on my hands and wrists. Just a little bit different in the noise through plugs. Shot some 158 grain SWC with a full book load of 2400. Those were pretty noisy. And snapped me the worst. The others i could shoot one handed, these i didnt like that from what i recall.

My thought was to purchase a 44 magnum. And just use standard bullets 200 to 240 grain and just stay at mild velocities. 8 to 1000 fps. Ideally was thinking a DEWC in 220 grains and seeing what it could do.

But with 44 magnums literally unobtainable online, and search engines bringing up gun ads from 2016, is it better to just get a heavy weight 357 magnum and try to load up the 170 to 200 grain bullets and hoping a cylinder full doesnt over do my wrists?

If you're having troubles with .38 special and .357 magnum, forget .44 magnum. In that circumstance, Recumbent's suggestion of a 12Ga. with slugs is a great idea. Get one of the pistol-grip stocks with an extended magazine. Remington 870, Mossberg 500, in a tactical configuration would be good choices. There are dozens of others, as well. Better control and less recoil when you share it with both hands. GhostHawk makes a good point, too, but I wouldn't do anything to wound Mr. Bear. An irrigated bear is not your friend. If you can't get your wildlife folks to take care of him, you need to kill him, preferably with the first shot, but follow with as many as it takes to make him go down permanently.

There are reasons I don't live in bear country anymore. And none of them are 1st person experience. In this, if perhaps alone, I try to wise. ;)

Was the bear bothering you two years ago? One year ago? You pick the time when the time picks you. It's a complicating factor, but not anything you have control over.

Bill

[Nobade]

A big dog works pretty well for that. And not keeping anything out that they would be interested in.

[Sasquatch-1]

Are you planning on strapping this on every time you go into the yard? If not, I also would go with the 12 gauge. If you have to have something on you whenever your outside the Ruger Redhawks and Blackhawks are probably the heaviest, by wieght, 44's you could get. Heavier weight reduces recoil. Maybe not by much but some.

[starnbar]

Hey a 20 gauge will do and it will be a lot easier on your hands and shoulder too the missus dropped a coyote drt in the back yard with the mossberg off hand about 3 months ago I was impressed.

[TNsailorman]

A 20 gauge coach gun or the new Mossberg SA-20 would be ideal for what you have described. Lower recoil than a 12 and with light 2 3/4" 11 or 12 size shotshells will put a bear on the prod without too much damage. Loaded with spreader wads would be even better. He won't come back. A dog( well maybe a pit bull or a malamute) is no match for any grown black bear who decides to stay and fight.

[JoeJames]

We have black bears in my area; though I have never seem one. I carry a 4 1/4" Ruger Blackhawk in 44 Special. My loads with 240 grain SWC's run at 894 fps. I figure that would be quite sufficient for anything I run across in the woods. And, it is accurate and pleasant to shoot. If you don't reload HSM makes 44 Special Cowboy loads that run a bit slower than that.

[contender1]

For the OP.
With your hand issues,, I'd NOT look at a handgun for defensive purposes.
I too live in bear country. Locally, we had one taken that DRESSED 585 last season. I have pictures of more than one that will go over 500 lbs on my property. Lastly, I work as an animal damage control agent. I get questions & calls almost daily about dealing with bears.

If a firearm is what you MUST have,,, then a shotgun such as recumbant has mentioned is excellent for dealing with an aggressive/attacking bear. But you MUST have it in hand at all times if you feel there may be a threat. And often,, the "threat" appears w/o warning.

My suggestion is bear spray.
And, just like a handgun, you need to learn how to use it PROPERLY, and have it handy. Bear spray is cheaper than a firearm, easily used, and is an excellent deterrent to most bears. Plus,, with your hands,, easier to operate. Counter Assault is the preferred brand,, and highly recommended.

Next,, figure out WHY the bear(s) may be attracted to your place. Garbage, bird & pet feeders, BBQ grills, compost bins, etc that spell FOOD to the bears can be why they visit.
Another thing I recommend to some customers,, good, QUALITY electric fencing. Properly installed,, & maintained,, they will work for the occasional visitor,, when combined with the removal of any food type attractants.

So, to your desires of DEFENSE against a bear,, modification of your property & habits is the best defense.

[BunkTheory]

the store bought 158 swc in 38 special +p form and the 158 grain JSP he had on hand, they felt the same to me. Only difference i could actually note in hand was noise level and the push on my hand. The difference was sort of like swapping between 125 grain jhp 38 +p and +p 158 swc loads.

[dverna]

It is not the "right" choice, but I normally carry my daily carry gun (Glock 22) and I live in bear country. Just this morning the bear hunters drove down my drive...it is dog training season here.

I have a NIB .44 Mag I have never fired that was supposed to be for bear but it so much easier for me to have the Glock on me all the time. The .44 Mag is a better gun for sure, but I can put on the Glock in the morning and do chores, or head into town or visit a neighbor without changing guns.

I had a 300+ lb bear get into my dumpster twice last year...what a mess, and had to chain it shut. The bear hunters got him last year.

One dog is useless against a bear...plan on losing the dog. But the dog will die protecting you.

Black bears will rarely attack humans but it happens. One of the hunters got too close a couple of weeks ago and came away with 52 stiches to his leg...he was "lucky". If you decide on a pistol, a shot into the ground in front of bear will get him out of there without getting the DNR involved. If the bear does not retreat, the rest of the rounds need to count. If you shoot a bear here, calling the DNR is necessary, and you need to justify shooting the animal. Having him tear down you bird feeder or scarfing up the dog food is not going to cut it.

You have recevied good advice about trying to make your place less attractive to the animal. The are not looking for trouble, only for food.

[BunkTheory]

A 20 gauge coach gun or the new Mossberg SA-20 would be ideal for what you have described. Lower recoil than a 12 and with light 2 3/4" 11 or 12 size shotshells will put a bear on the prod without too much damage. Loaded with spreader wads would be even better. He won't come back. A dog( well maybe a pit bull or a malamute) is no match for any grown black bear who decides to stay and fight.

hmmm yeah the bear MIGHT not come back, but that nasty as can be infection that will probably result WILL make him attach anything he comes across again.

THINGS like this make EVERYONE with a gun or who hunts look like a moron.

[BunkTheory]

I am able to shoot the .357 magnum. Its just that the FULL POWER 158 grain SWC with 2400 was more recoil then the other factory magnum options for some reason and the noise.... double handed i could keep them on a plastic coffee can lid at 20 yards two hand hold. The factory 158 grain soft points the same with two hands.

The other loads 38 special one hand wonders to shoot.

[BunkTheory]

People on here seem to be able to shoot snubs with 170 grain bullets and have limited problems, so i was thinking that twice the gun with same load would be enjoyable.

[Winger Ed.]

I match the gun and cartridge for the intended task they will be used for, not my own comfort level or ability.

With your limitations, I'd be looking at a 12 ga. pump or maybe a .44Mag, or .45Colt in a lever action carbine.

All I know about bears is from watching them on National Geographic TV shows.
But if I was going to shoot one with a .357, I'd want the biggest, badest load that wouldn't blow the gun apart to do it with.

[Sasquatch-1]

This may be a Grizzly, but it was shot with a 12 gauge and just shook it off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj7Z5oMWuIU

[Bigslug]

Black bear are not a T-Rex. Nor are they typically agressive until significant lines are crossed. If the warning shot doesn't do it, a heavy bullet out of a .357 with a largish meplat should be plenty.

One option for mitigating recoil is to look for heavier guns. The Ruger GP-100 or S&W 686 with the full-length underlug are one set of options; the .357 in a .44 frame option of the Ruger Redhawk, or S&W 27/28/627 is another.

All that said, put me in the camp of the 12 gauge slug.

[Jtarm]

A Ruger Blackhawk .41 or .44 magnum 7 1/2 “ barrel single action, with their Bisley grip frame would be good for your hands. The comfort of the Bisley grip is one of the world’s best kept secrets, IMHO.

I’ll second a single action, though not necessarily the Bisley.

An SA rolls in your hand, vs a DA grip that transmits way more of the recoil energy into your wrist and hand.

[Jtarm]

This may be a Grizzly, but it was shot with a 12 gauge and just shook it off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj7Z5oMWuIU

It doesn’t say what his load was.

I’m no bear expert, in fact I’ve never seen one outside a zoo. But based on my experiences with horses & cattle, challenging a mama bear with her cubs nearby was not a smart move.

[BunkTheory]

It doesn’t say what his load was.

I’m no bear expert, in fact I’ve never seen one outside a zoo. But based on my experiences with horses & cattle, challenging a mama bear with her cubs nearby was not a smart move.

That be the reason baby cubs are FEARLESS until they smell a MALE BEAR

[uscra112]

Pachmayr or Hogue grips make huge difference in felt recoil. I have them on all my S&Ws except the .22.

[Burnt Fingers]

This may be a Grizzly, but it was shot with a 12 gauge and just shook it off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj7Z5oMWuIU

I'd say it's a good example of birdshot is for birds. Warning shots are stupid, and not aiming to stop the threat is even more stupid.

[TNsailorman]

It is a also an example of a idiot. I watched the video and anybody who charges a bear who has cubs with her is begging for a mauling. What was that guy thinking, or was he thinking at all. If he was trying to protect the dog, the dog had a better chance in that situation than the guy did. Once he charged and forced her into a counter charge, that short barrel birdshot gun had little chance of breaking her charge. She was defending her cubs and come Hell or high water, she was going to continue her attack until she decided the threat was removed. If you noticed, she took two hits from that gun and then got back up and continued her defense of her cubs. She may have died later from the effects of those shots (internal bleeding?) but that was not going to help the guy at that moment. He was very lucky and I hope he learned a good lesson. As was said in a famous movie, don't take a knife to a gunfight.

[beshears]

I would want penetration and bone breaking ability. If not a 44 Mag a 45 Colt would be second choice. Both of them second choice to a 12 gauge with slugs.

[Norske]

I hunt black bear. Because of a bad back, I hunt from a ground blind. A SBH is my backup, the prime firearm is a Marlin 45-70 and the last 2 cartridges from the magazine are Buffalo Bore. Having traveled there, I know the "Alaska load" is a 12 ga shotgun with an extended magazine. The shell in the chamber is what I would use on pheasants or ducks, all others are 1 oz or heavier slugs. No pistol grip, a shoulder stock provides much better control. This tidbit of knowledge came from a fishing guide who grew up on Kodiak Island.

[Win94ae]

My S&W 686 357mag with an 8" barrel, has hardly any kick with any load; let alone my hot 180gr loads, which will do the trick.