Mixed Small Shot Sizes for Snakes and Rats?

[Woodtroll]

Just a curiosity question, as I expect someone has tried it already -

Would there be any advantage to mixing small shot sizes (I'm thinking #9 and #12) to increase the load density and mid-range (6-15 feet or so) effectiveness of handgun shotshells on snakes and rats, and such? #12 to partially fill the voids between the #9 and increase the density, #9 for more mass and penetration? I'm thinking this would matter more in the smaller shells than the larger.

Probably some computer genius could model this out and tell us what the most effective mix for any diameter shell would be based on a perfect matrix. Me, I'm thinking I'll pour some into a shot capsule so I can see what's going on, and weigh the different charges. But if someone's already tried this, I have other ideas that are equally trivial wastes of time. Haha!

Thanks, everyone,
Regan

[farmbif]

sounds like an interesting idea, definitely worth trying.
don't know anything about computer modeling, but old pizza box or other cardboard or scraps of wood are pretty good ways to check shot pattern.

[Adam Helmer]

Regan,

What caliber shot loads are you reloading? Here on my rural PA farm in snake country, I never needed anything but #6 or #7.5 shot in .38 Special, .357, .44 Special or ,44 Magnum and a proper dose of Unique. Most handguns have rifled barrels so shot disperses rapidly. My shot loads are a powder charge, a gas check cup up and a dose of shot and another gas check cup down and a roll crimp.

All my rattlers and copperheads tied themselves in knots at 10-15 feet with #6 or #7.5 shot. I have never seen #12 shot for sale and would never consider "dust shot" worth the effort.

Adam

[Mk42gunner]

I don't think it would be worth the effort, for a couple of reasons:

1. Shotloads from rifled handguns are a very short ranged proposition. We're talking 15-20 feet max. It doesn't take much range for the rifling to spin patterns into oblivion.

2. Everything I have ever read on the subject of mixed shot says to load the heavier pellets towards the front. In theory they don't slow down as fast as the small shot, and will blow patterns when they push through the cloud of small stuff.

I have never shot a rat or any other mammal with a shot load, but I have done in several slithery things. It doesn't take a lot of hits to get a snake to curl up in a writhing ball giving you time to get another shot if needed. More hits are obviously better here, so small shot for pattern density is better in my experience.

BPI sells 10 pound bags of #12 shot, which for most people is a more than lifetime supply, (as long as you don't lose it). Keeping in mind the extremely short range possible, I stick with #12. If a snake is further than about fifteen feet, he really isn't a problem.

Robert

[Electrod47]

I have been doing loading shotshells for my hand guns since the seventies. Poor man style. Since they came out with the Speer shot cups I have stuck with them and 12# shot. Bit the bullet years ago with BPI and got the 10lber. ( not a very big bag anyway ) Using the 6# and 7# would kill snakes OK but, many would need an extra shot. with the 12# they are really shredded. Here in MS I live in the country near water and I kill a half dozen each summer in the yard.

[dverna]

I don't think it would be worth the effort, for a couple of reasons:

1. Shotloads from rifled handguns are a very short ranged proposition. We're talking 15-20 feet max. It doesn't take much range for the rifling to spin patterns into oblivion.

2. Everything I have ever read on the subject of mixed shot says to load the heavier pellets towards the front. In theory they don't slow down as fast as the small shot, and will blow patterns when they push through the cloud of small stuff.

I have never shot a rat or any other mammal with a shot load, but I have done in several slithery things. It doesn't take a lot of hits to get a snake to curl up in a writhing ball giving you time to get another shot if needed. More hits are obviously better here, so small shot for pattern density is better in my experience.

BPI sells 10 pound bags of #12 shot, which for most people is a more than lifetime supply, (as long as you don't lose it). Keeping in mind the extremely short range possible, I stick with #12. If a snake is further than about fifteen feet, he really isn't a problem.

Robert

Robert made a good point...a snake 15 ft away is not an eminent threat.

One other consideration....rocks, gravel, and such. Larger shot will have more energy if it comes back at you. I wear glasses all the time so have some protection but others do not.

[Jsm180]

#9 works fine for me in 45 acp in the 1911. Took a little trial and error to get them to cycle, #9 does fine out to 10'. 3 moccasins so far this year.

[Adam Helmer]

Don Verna makes a fine Safety Point: Always wear eye protection when using any shot loads. At my club several years ago we had a member blind himself in one eye when his #8 shot load bounced back in his face from a hardwood target back board.

Adam

[beemer]

Years ago I stumbled across about a pint of #9 shot, worked on anything a pistol load should be used for. The rifling does make a mess of the pattern. I take the exact same load for a 38 spcl. load it in a .410 shot shell and better than triple the range.

[Woodtroll]

Thanks for the pointers, folks, especially about wearing glasses! Luckily I wear prescription glasses, and always get the polycarbonate lenses in case I'm doing something unexpected and don't have a chance to put on safety glasses.

I've always used gas-check-type shot loads in my .45 Colt, but am thinking to experiment some with .45ACP in a 1911 and maybe a .32 H&R Magnum trail gun, just for the heck of it. Jsm180, I'd be real interested in what load cycles your 1911, if you care to share?

Agreed, snakes are not a danger at a distance, but sometimes I need to weed out poisonous snakes right around the homestead that I can't get real close to. I don't bother them out in the woods away from my place. Small shot works great, but loses energy; larger shot carries more momentum but loses density... which led to my pondering mixed charges. Good point about the heavy shot up front, Mk42gunner - I'd not heard that.

Sometimes I have to shoot birds or small mammals inside barns or sheds - the #12 is less likely to bounce around, and less likely to tear up tin, aluminum, or anything I accidentally hit. Sure, it's a short-range proposition - my serious shotgunning of varmints is done with a 10-bore side-by-side! Just kidding, it's only a 12...

Thanks again for the discussion! I'll let you know if I get around to trying out any mixed loads, and how they do.

Take care!

[Mk42gunner]

Since you mentioned the .32 H&R. A McDonalds straw and a Bic lighter can be used to make shot containers that should work.

Robert

[Woodtroll]

Since you mentioned the .32 H&R. A McDonalds straw and a Bic lighter can be used to make shot containers that should work.

Robert

Excellent idea, thanks!

[ElPistolero]

I use just #12, but no cups, in my sweetie's LadySmith and, at any distance at which a snake is going to bother me, they do VERY nicely. The case is closed at the mouth in a rather interesting manner:
Calibre Weapon Bullet Mfg Sized
.357 Mag Lady Smith Lee .360
Primer Powder Wt/Type Alloy
MgSmPs W 231 70 RB Black Powder
Grains BC 0.08
4.6
Note
Pwdr. Card (.05”), Grex (.3cc), card, shot (70gr), ball (crimp @ ctr)

[besk]

You don't need a computer to answer your question. Just a piece of paper, a ruler and a compass.

Find out the diameter of the largest size and, using a compass, draw out that size packed together. (Of course for this purpose you need to draw everything to scale.) Then, the size of voids which will be the diameter of shot required to fill in the voids.

The goal is to find out the size of shot that would allow #12 shot to fill in the spaces. I predict that it will be closer to #7 than #9 shot.



Just a curiosity question, as I expect someone has tried it already -

Would there be any advantage to mixing small shot sizes (I'm thinking #9 and #12) to increase the load density and mid-range (6-15 feet or so) effectiveness of handgun shotshells on snakes and rats, and such? #12 to partially fill the voids between the #9 and increase the density, #9 for more mass and penetration? I'm thinking this would matter more in the smaller shells than the larger.

Probably some computer genius could model this out and tell us what the most effective mix for any diameter shell would be based on a perfect matrix. Me, I'm thinking I'll pour some into a shot capsule so I can see what's going on, and weigh the different charges. But if someone's already tried this, I have other ideas that are equally trivial wastes of time. Haha!

Thanks, everyone,
Regan