The Harbinger books [Archive]

Good Cheer

01-31-2022, 09:43 PM

Some links that might be helpful to peruse.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/a-definition-of-zionism

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Zionism

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Zionism

Zionism is a political and cultural dogma from back before the 20th Century having its roots in the desires for various purposes of establishing a homeland for various peoples who identified as Jewish. From those times various Zionist political organizations sprang up that had various ideas and chosen methods for achieving their end goals depending upon the philosophies, religious beliefs and political ideologies of their founders. This produced a competition as well as some cooperation among the various groups and leaders and made Zionism a very real political force to be reckoned during the first half of the 20th century. Zionist organizations provided the political structure needed to produce by various means the British Balfour Declaration, the German Transfer Agreement and ultimately the end of the British Mandate from Palestine and are still a potent political force in the world today.

1hole

01-31-2022, 10:25 PM

Zionism is a political and cultural dogma from back before the 20th Century having its roots in the desires for various purposes of establishing a homeland for various peoples who identified as Jewish.

In a nutshell, you're saying Zionism agrees with Jesus (himself a Jew) that the original promised land God swore to Abraham as an eternal home for his bloodline still remains in effect today and His new Jerusalem will be God's earthly capital forever, right?

Okay, so the Zionist plan fully agrees with scripture's end-times promises; I really like to see God's plans come together like that! :)

Good Cheer

02-01-2022, 06:03 AM

I didn't say anything about that so you must be angling for something else.
Are you wanting to discuss the terms of the covenant made with Abraham?

augercreek

02-01-2022, 06:59 AM

What do you have against the establishment of the state of Israel ?

Good Cheer

02-01-2022, 09:26 AM

What do you have against the establishment of the state of Israel ?

I don't. Why would I? It is fulfillment of Old Testament and New Testament prophecy.

ioon44

02-01-2022, 10:04 AM

Then what is your point?

Good Cheer

02-01-2022, 10:56 AM

Then what is your point?

I read the book.
My commentary on it was (copying and pasting from above), "The smell of zionist politics was strong enough to keep me from reading another."
Then I was asked "I give up, what are "(Z)ionist politics"? "
So then I explained a little about Zionism and its political history.
Then an attempt was made to put words in my mouth about something I never spoke about.
Then I was asked "What do you have against the establishment of the state of Israel ? "
Now you're asking "Then what is your point? "
So wait a minute guys, what's your point?

Hopefully 1hole will come along and answer the question I asked, "Are you wanting to discuss the terms of the covenant made with Abraham?". That covenant being stated to be conditional (with both Abraham and with his descendants) and the story as it threads its way through history, as time after time almost all of Abraham's descendants were expelled from the land for breaking the terms of the agreement, is a wondrous verification of the veracity of scripture. And take note, with the putting forth of shoots there are still the good figs and the bad figs. When it comes time, when the two witnesses are killed in Jerusalem ("which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt") God is going to clean house yet again.
That's a steadfast principle of scripture that as it happened before it happens again.

1hole

02-01-2022, 12:43 PM

Hopefully 1hole will come along and answer the question I asked, "Are you wanting to discuss the terms of the covenant made with Abraham?". That covenant being stated to be conditional (with both Abraham and with his descendants).

1hole happily says, "Here am I, send me!" :)

I need no discussion on this topic because I'm not puzzled; I have the written words.

Bottom line first: The blood promise of the land to Abraham and his descendants was unilateral. Abe actually seems to have slept through most of it so he had nothing to do with the covenant of land.

God's promised land, which Abe's tribe has not yet possessed and is still out of their reach, is MUCH larger than present day Israel. So, either (1) God made Abe, Issac and Jacob a mistaken promise about the land or (2) it's yet to happen; I vote for the latter!

Now, the only CONDITIONAL part of God's promise was that national blessings would follow national obedience. It's important for us to note that much of those national blessings have been gained in part and then lost several times. But, contrary to our extremely high opinions of ourselves, we modern gentiles living in the U.S.A. today really aren't the high point of God's plans. God's plan for Abe and his descendants obviously isn't finished yet and I believe He can properly handle all of our little problems just fine when the time is right!

Me, I'm just a child of God's so I try to keep things as simple as possible. I know God still loves his chosen people so I still pray for the Peace of Jerusalem and God's chosen people, every night. Yeah, sure, I know there will be no peace for Jews and Israel or anywhere else on earth so long as the combined forces of hell continue trying to exterminate those people and keep them out of their promised homeland; I also know that's going to stop.

Those aren't my ideas guys so don't argue with me! It's all in His Book, so the popular antisemitic cry that "the church has replaced the Jews" delusion just ain't gonna work out the way some folk want it to but it doesn't bother me a bit! :happy dance:)
-------------------------------------

Cheer, forgive me if I misstated your position about Zionism. It wasn't my intent to put my words into your mouth (I have a cold and that's not sanitary!) I was simply trying to condense what I thought you meant into more understandable words but I clearly didn't get your message.

I'd be happy to hear exactly what you believe about Zionism as we know it today. ????

farmbif

02-01-2022, 01:27 PM

Good Cheer

02-01-2022, 02:29 PM

1hole happily says, "Here am I, send me!" :)

I need no discussion on this topic because I'm not puzzled; I have the written words.

Bottom line first: The blood promise of the land to Abraham and his descendants was unilateral. Abe actually seems to have slept through most of it so he had nothing to do with the covenant of land.

God's promised land, which Abe's tribe has not yet possessed and is still out of their reach, is MUCH larger than present day Israel. So, either (1) God made Abe, Issac and Jacob a mistaken promise about the land or (2) it's yet to happen; I vote for the latter!

Now, the only CONDITIONAL part of God's promise was that national blessings would follow national obedience. It's important for us to note that much of those national blessings have been gained in part and then lost several times. But, contrary to our extremely high opinions of ourselves, we modern gentiles living in the U.S.A. today really aren't the high point of God's plans. God's plan for Abe and his descendants obviously isn't finished yet and I believe He can properly handle all of our little problems just fine when the time is right!

Me, I'm just a child of God's so I try to keep things as simple as possible. I know God still loves his chosen people so I still pray for the Peace of Jerusalem and God's chosen people, every night. Yeah, sure, I know there will be no peace for Jews and Israel or anywhere else on earth so long as the combined forces of hell continue trying to exterminate those people and keep them out of their promised homeland; I also know that's going to stop.

Those aren't my ideas guys so don't argue with me! It's all in His Book, so the popular antisemitic cry that "the church has replaced the Jews" delusion just ain't gonna work out the way some folk want it to but it doesn't bother me a bit! :happy dance:)
-------------------------------------

Cheer, forgive me if I misstated your position about Zionism. It wasn't my intent to put my words into your mouth (I have a cold and that's not sanitary!) I was simply trying to condense what I thought you meant into more understandable words but I clearly didn't get your message.

I'd be happy to hear exactly what you believe about Zionism as we know it today. ????

Zionism is a political force in our world today. For me there's nothing to believe about it but only to observe, history and the present.
About the covenant with Abraham, it was always conditional. I understand that many people are taught that it was unconditional but that isn't what scripture says.

Good Cheer

02-01-2022, 03:59 PM

ok I got question. I'm trying to understand what all this is about. I also want to know
what is "zionist politics" and I could ask what does it smell like? is this like mideast peace policies and stuff like that? Or maybe some politics to do---What? exactly
I'm not stupid but this religious/politics gets confusing real quick especially when different people have different definitions of many political or religious hot-button terms.

Hi farmbif. Yeah, I've been a bit taken a back myself.

About Zionist politics...
Around the Levant if you dig a post hole and find the wrong artifact the repercussions can upset political apple carts. Theology is political as well. Because the nation state of Israel has been a key element in much US foreign policy theology is very much political in the US.
There are religious teachings contrived to provide political cover for the state of Israel and there are religious teachings contrived to take away political cover. As anyone should suspect would be the case, both sides go overboard and manage to stray just a little bit too far in trying to make their points which after all end up being about politics rather than what scripture really says. When I see that going on I know the dogma involved is tainted. Or as I previously put it, it smells.

.429&H110

02-01-2022, 04:11 PM

Harbinger is on my shelf, I didn't see "Zionism".
Harbinger is about 9/11.
Tells how the prophesy of Isaiah came to reality.
Isaiah 9:11?

An image of 9/11 is the fence with the pictures, across the street.
Across the street from destruction still standing
protected by the cedars is the fence in front of the church
where George prayed at his inauguration.
Where George declared a covenant between his nation and God.
Get out George's first inaugural, read it carefully.
We have broken that covenant and God does not forget.

Harbinger's not classic literature, but readable:
tells how our Bible became real, while few noticed.

Good Cheer

02-01-2022, 09:19 PM

1hole

02-01-2022, 11:00 PM

About the covenant with Abraham, it was always conditional. I understand that many people are taught that it was unconditional but that isn't what scripture says.

Wrongly taught according to what scripture?

You again make broad, unfocused statements but once again you give absolutely no support for your position so you leave us with a collection of rational questions. For instance, you say scripture gives conditions about God's promised possession of the land so I say, 'teach me right'; where (book:chapter:verse) can those conditions be found? (IF you actually have that information tell us where it is; if it's there I will read it, apologize for questioning you about it and slide away.)

If you wish, I can indeed show you several places where God made unconditional Jewish homeland promises to the patriarchs. I've read the whole Book a few times (I'm sorta Book taught, know what I mean?) and I know of NO scripture that even hints that God's land promises were conditional and I don't think there is any such scripture. But, if I'm wrong - and I may be - I'm sure willing to learn; if you were taught even one or two verses clearly saying the promised land ever was or is now conditional I want to see them!

Do you really believe the failure of the Jews to live rightly has deprived them of the land God repeatedly and uniquely swore to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants? Do you condemn today's Zionists as bad people for seeking a viable and recognised Jewish home state that would, in fact, be MUCH smaller than what God promised Abe?

If so, do you also believe God favors the various fractured Satanic Muslim land claims over the admittedly still spiritually wayward Jews? If you do, have you considered the fact that most of the bloody fighting in the last part of the Book of Revelation will be centered in Israel and Jerusalem, i.e., the Jewish people still living in their own homeland?

We all know that at the end of the seven years of Tribulation Jesus will return to earth to save the protected remnant of Abraham's seed still living in the original Promised Land, right? (See Psm 83, Ezk 38-39, Daniel and Revelation for most of the end time conflicts.)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Farm bif, your confusion about Zionist politics is understandable. Many who loosely toss the term around do not really understand it either. I'll try to keep it short:

A "Zionist", properly defined, is simply someone who clings to God's promise to eventually obtain the Jewish people a larger part of the sandbox than they currently have as an eternal homeland (Zion) for the descendants of Abraham.

Muslims usually hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) in the mideast or anywhere else because hating is what they do.

Many of our "educated liberals" hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) anywhere because they've been taught it's smart to oppose both orthodox Jews and Bible believing Christians.

A lot of self proclaimed Christians hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) because they've been taught that's the way all "really smart people" should think. It's easy to do and antisemitism is usually a part of their makeup anyway.

Zionist politics is the diplomatic effort by some folk hoping to politically advance the creation of a real and viable homeland in a land that's surrounded by vipers.

Big thing for Christians to remember is, it's prophecy. The Jews will never get the rest of Zion until the time is right and then there will be nothing anyone can do to stop it.

Our job for now - well, my job anyway - is to do all I can to show approachable Jews the deep, eternal love of their crucified Messiah AND continue to pray for the peace and protection of Jews and Jerusalem.

Thundarstick

02-02-2022, 06:13 AM

Do Jews who reject The Christ, Jesus, recipients of salvation?

Good Cheer

02-02-2022, 08:23 AM

Wrongly taught according to what scripture?

You again make broad, unfocused statements but once again you give absolutely no support for your position so you leave us with a collection of rational questions. For instance, you say scripture gives conditions about God's promised possession of the land so I say, 'teach me right'; where (book:chapter:verse) can those conditions be found? (IF you actually have that information tell us where it is; if it's there I will read it, apologize for questioning you about it and slide away.)

If you wish, I can indeed show you several places where God made unconditional Jewish homeland promises to the patriarchs. I've read the whole Book a few times (I'm sorta Book taught, know what I mean?) and I know of NO scripture that even hints that God's land promises were conditional and I don't think there is any such scripture. But, if I'm wrong - and I may be - I'm sure willing to learn; if you were taught even one or two verses clearly saying the promised land ever was or is now conditional I want to see them!

Do you really believe the failure of the Jews to live rightly has deprived them of the land God repeatedly and uniquely swore to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants? Do you condemn today's Zionists as bad people for seeking a viable and recognised Jewish home state that would, in fact, be MUCH smaller than what God promised Abe?

If so, do you also believe God favors the various fractured Satanic Muslim land claims over the admittedly still spiritually wayward Jews? If you do, have you considered the fact that most of the bloody fighting in the last part of the Book of Revelation will be centered in Israel and Jerusalem, i.e., the Jewish people still living in their own homeland?

We all know that at the end of the seven years of Tribulation Jesus will return to earth to save the protected remnant of Abraham's seed still living in the original Promised Land, right? (See Psm 83, Ezk 38-39, Daniel and Revelation for most of the end time conflicts.)

--------------------------------------------------------------

Farm bif, your confusion about Zionist politics is understandable. Many who loosely toss the term around do not really understand it either. I'll try to keep it short:

A "Zionist", properly defined, is simply someone who clings to God's promise to eventually obtain the Jewish people a larger part of the sandbox than they currently have as an eternal homeland (Zion) for the descendants of Abraham.

Muslims usually hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) in the mideast or anywhere else because hating is what they do.

Many of our "educated liberals" hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) anywhere because they've been taught it's smart to oppose both orthodox Jews and Bible believing Christians.

A lot of self proclaimed Christians hate the idea of a Jewish state (Zion) because they've been taught that's the way all "really smart people" should think. It's easy to do and antisemitism is usually a part of their makeup anyway.

Zionist politics is the diplomatic effort by some folk hoping to politically advance the creation of a real and viable homeland in a land that's surrounded by vipers.

Big thing for Christians to remember is, it's prophecy. The Jews will never get the rest of Zion until the time is right and then there will be nothing anyone can do to stop it.

Our job for now - well, my job anyway - is to do all I can to show approachable Jews the deep, eternal love of their crucified Messiah AND continue to pray for the peace and protection of Jews and Jerusalem.

1hole,
What you're saying there along with the suppositional non sequitur questions and trying to play the besmirching antisemitism card fairly well illustrates the standard issue political Zionists' play book.

As regards being expelled from the land:
What did God account to Abraham prior to executing the agreement? Righteousness.
What gets the people expelled from the land? Unrighteousness.
It's a matter of the people keeping faith with Him or breaking faith with Him.
That is the condition.
And, yes, what is happening is prophecy being fulfilled.

GhostHawk

02-02-2022, 08:35 AM

1hole (Snippage)...... Our job for now - well, my job anyway - is to do all I can to show approachable Jews the deep, eternal love of their crucified Messiah AND continue to pray for the peace and protection of Jews and Jerusalem. "

This Sir I agree with, totally.

As for Johnathan Cahn, he is what is known as a Messianic Jew. A Jew who believes in the Messiah. A Jew who follows Christ.
And I happen to believe one that not only follows him, but one who listens to him, converses with him. I believe he is a prophet of sorts for our times.
Everyone else can make up their own minds, and I do not follow anyone blindly. If that makes me a Missouri Mule, so be it.

For me reading his Books Johnathan caused me to question virtually everything I believe, and why I believe it. That is a journey I think more Christians should take.

ioon44

02-02-2022, 09:54 AM

I think this is a good read.

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/christian-terms/what-should-christians-know-about-zionism.html

I still don't know what Good Cheers point is.

farmbif

02-02-2022, 10:15 AM

well these days I sure do have more appreciation for ma'am-ma and her setting down the law, that there won't be discussion of politics or religion at her dinner table.

.429&H110

02-02-2022, 12:23 PM

Saint Paul was plagued by "Judeizers" who added to and denied his gospel.
And so are we, we could ask three Baptists, get five opinions.
Beware the difference between isogesis (bad) and exogesis (good?).

Isogesis is me poking into the Bible what I want to be there according to my biases.
Exogesis is me taking a piece out of the Bible and studying it.

Paul warns Timothy about this.

1hole

02-02-2022, 01:19 PM

well these days I sure do have more appreciation for ma'am-ma and her setting down the law, that there won't be discussion of politics or religion at her dinner table.

Mamma was a smart lady. She knew people who are losing rational discussions often get snarky and mean no matter the topic.

1hole

02-02-2022, 01:28 PM

Do Jews who reject The Christ, Jesus, recipients of salvation?

If you mean, do Jews who never come to Jesus get to heaven, of course not but salvation is what God (and Christians) want to see happen. The eternal loss of his fellow Hebrews is one of the things that drove Paul to first preach in local synagogues every time he moved.

1hole

02-02-2022, 02:34 PM

.... Everyone else can make up their own minds, and I do not follow anyone blindly. If that makes me a Missouri Mule, so be it.

For me reading his Books Johnathan caused me to question virtually everything I believe, and why I believe it. That is a journey I think more Christians should take.

Right on. Carefully and prayerfully examining new theological ideas makes you a true Bible scholar, neither slavish or mulish!

I always test my own beliefs against new (to me) ideas. I usually hold onto what I started with but not always because I'm certainly willing to change my religious beliefs if scripture proves me wrong; that's the only way I know to keep me moving towards the Light. But, it does take scripture to correct me, not someone else's supposed lofty religious words written on vapor.

I sometimes find it bemusing to read some obviously religious folks stoutly proclaiming they have something they can prove but offer no scripture to back up anything they claim; that's truly odd! They're some sort of "religious" people for sure but Paul strongly opposed such folk in his ministry and he warns the disciples of Jesus not to heed those who follow their own paths.

Bottom line, men may misunderstand some things but God's words - scripture - does not contradict itself. If something's added to scripture it's not so and there's nothing in scripture saying any of God's prophecies to the blood line descendants of Abraham are conditional; that's just not the way God works! (See Zec 2:1-13)

1hole

02-02-2022, 05:05 PM

1hole, .....

As regards being expelled from the land: What did God account to Abraham prior to executing the agreement? Righteousness.

What gets the people expelled from the land? Unrighteousness.
It's a matter of the people keeping faith with Him or breaking faith with Him. That is the condition.

You wrongly smash together the Jew's temporal blessings and punishments of their meandering spiritual life and God's eternal promise of the homeland - they are NOT the same! Suppose as you might, the land covenant was clearly unilateral and there is NO precondition for Jews eventually having their promised homeland and - if God knew what he was talking about - all of it WILL eventually be theirs, not just the historical fragment of it they have marginally controlled so far.

And, yes, what is happening is prophecy being fulfilled.

Yes, it is. And Jews are in the land once again but they, as a people, are no more "righteous" today than they've ever been. And God has obviously given them a long series of unexpected and undeserved military victories since 1948. So, where does all that leave your unscriptural and - dare I say it? - antisemitic theory about the promised land?

NOTE:
I'll grant that some of my questions were probably off base but they all had to be shots in the dark because you really haven't provided us any real reasons for what you say. Thus, my questions became increasingly frustrated efforts to get something, anything, tangible from you. Your post of today is also quite fuzzy (and with no scripture at all) but it's your best effort yet because this is the first time you've actually said something close to understandable (and you're still Biblically wrong).

We still don't know a thing about what's driving your objection to God's promised homeland goals; i.e., Zionism.

.429&H110

02-02-2022, 05:51 PM

The Jewish people made a covenant with God.
So did George Washington.
(We have kept ours about as well as they do)
Marriage is a covenant.

Once you make a promise to God, He will not forget.

GhostHawk

02-02-2022, 10:06 PM

......Marriage is a covenant.

Once you make a promise to God, He will not forget.....

Bingo!

I had the Lord ask me why I was committing adultery. I said Lord I am not, I am married to this woman and I love her.

"But she was married before!"

Yes Lord, she was, and he abandoned her when she was with child. And had 4 children with my wife's best friend while she was married to another man.
Lord even I know that there were some situations were divorce was permitted.

"Marriage is a 3 way contract or covenant. The man can tear up his copy, the woman can tear up hers. But the LORD is still sitting on his.

In my case the Lord challenged me to not have intercourse with my wife for a year. Love her, live with her, sleep next to her, but treat her like she was my sister. I am pretty dang positive he thought I would fail. But I did not fail. I became even more loving, supportive, encouraging. And at the end of the year he said, Ok William Thomas, you love her, and you love me. In my eyes you are now married. There will be no more talk of sin or adultery.

But I am pretty sure that while the State may recognize divorce, the Lord does not. At least not in most cases.

Good Cheer

02-02-2022, 10:29 PM

"You wrongly smash together the Jew's temporal blessings and punishments of their meandering spiritual life and God's eternal promise of the homeland - they are NOT the same! Suppose as you might, the land covenant was clearly unilateral and there is NO precondition for Jews eventually having their promised homeland and - if God knew what he was talking about - all of it WILL eventually be theirs, not just the historical fragment of it they have marginally controlled so far."

1hole, I already know that you believe in that theory also. I just happen to have concluded that you're wrong about that as well as being wrong in the way you have sought to badger me (see #22 above) for having the nerve to hold conclusions that disagree with you.

ioon44

02-03-2022, 10:47 AM

I still don't see what your point is.

.429&H110

02-03-2022, 01:27 PM

The book "The Harbinger" is a post-9/11 warning that America is blessed by God, and we have forgotten. The Jewish people are blessed by God, and He blessed them with the Babylonians, then flattened Judea. I am glad my hero Jeremiah finally got out of his pit.

The parallels of our two nations are worth noting.
Both established and blessed by God, victorious in war, then boom.
Their Baal worshipers sacrificed children, worshiped trees, put up totems-Ashterah.
Read the last page of Joshua, turn the page to Judges.
The tribes told Joshua what he wanted to hear.

Our Scientism cult is guvmint sponsored, worshiping their own cleverness, burning our taxes to further prove to themselves there is no god but themselves, while lining their pockets. A rocket surely looks like a phallic totem pole, we have burnt offerings on our gasgrills, and worship our Fords. We believe we are just clever monkeys and treat each other as such.

We cannot say we weren't warned.
I believe we can save America if and only if we join in repentance.
Ninevah was saved, although we only remember Jonah from his whale thing.
Last Christmas did you hear the angel say "With God nothing is impossible"?
There is an independent church near you that prays for America.
Join them. George did.

ioon44

02-03-2022, 02:16 PM

Amos 3:7 New Living Translation
Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets.

1hole

02-03-2022, 10:32 PM

1hole, I already know that you believe in that theory also.

What I "believe" and defend is the Bible, not "theory".

Theories are ideas that have to be tested and proven. I'm saying what the Bible actually says about Zion, not what I would like for it to say; YOU only have theories!

Your promised land error is not critical to any Christian doctrines so, to that extent, your mistake doesn't matter. BUT, on the other hand, your determined repetitions that the Bible says something it does not say IS an important matter because the dependability of scripture - as it's written - does matter, a lot!

I also have a few foggy Bible theories but I do not contest them with anyone because they're only my theories, ideas that I cannot prove from the written word. Therefore, no good would be gained by me insisting that my unprovable theories are better than anyone else's unprovable theories so I rarely mention them.

I've invited you several times to document YOUR "conditional promised land THEORY". You've not yet given us a single thing other than your mistaken "belief" that God made a conditional promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for much sand-land (Zion). But, you haven't proven your "theory" because there is literally no Biblical support for that mistake! (You aren't a Biblically ignorant man, if there were any such scripture you would have posted it long before now.)

I just happen to have concluded that you're wrong about that as well as being wrong in the way you have sought to badger me (see #22 above) for having the nerve to hold conclusions that disagree with you.

I don't believe it's happenstance that you have "concluded" God's unilateral land promises to Abraham and his tribe were conditional. But you're so convinced of the rightness of your "belief" that you firmly stick to conclusions that cannot be Biblically supported. Okay, that's factually wrong but it's not a condition for salvation so you won't go to hell for it!

I'll close by saying your perceived "badgering" on my part has been in respectful opposition to your determined efforts to corrupt scripture by claiming it supports what you have been wrongly taught about God's land promises .... and Zionism. But surely it hasn't taken much courage for you to do that! :)

.429&H110

02-04-2022, 03:47 PM

After all is said and done, "The Harbinger" was written as fiction.
A marvelous endless 14 hour study is "The Truth Project" where
Del Tackett says "I approach the Nature of God with fear and trembling".
Then he dives in feet first.
So do I, but always remembering Who made who.
He is a Big God. He reads your email.
He knew us before we were born.
He Is the uncaused cause, the uncreated Creator.
He Is, worthy of praise, prayer, and worship.
He might save your life, even as He spared mine. Thank You Jesus.
It's your choice.
I am compelled, commanded to share the Good News.

I could add scripture but alas in this age of TL;DR I am the only Bible that some will hear.
The kids don't read anyway. Cancel culture may well stop me yet and break up America.
The state by law closed my church for a virus and we cannot even discuss it.
Imagine if George Washington was told he couldn't go to church...

1hole

02-06-2022, 03:42 PM

......Marriage is a covenant.
--------------------------
Once you make a promise to God, He will not forget.....
--------------------------
But I am pretty sure that while the State may recognize divorce, the Lord does not. At least not in most cases.

Yes, but .... I wonder .... does God accept State sanctioned human marriage as an eternally binding agreement (covenant) in the spiritual sense of "the two shall become one flesh"? (It's an honest question because we know both valid and invalid marriages existed long before government injected itself into our bedrooms!)

I don't have the answer to that question but I have come to realize God doesn't automatically accept everything human government sanctions (maybe including "marriage"?) to be legally binding on Him OR his people! (Like, unrestrained abortion is still legal isn't it?)

.429&H110

02-06-2022, 08:08 PM

I believe in order to be married you need a triangle:
Husband-Wife-Jesus, unbendable, unbreakable.
You stand on hallowed ground before witnesses and make your oath before God.
Anything else is a contract, not a covenant.

A contract has a beginning, end, and terms. Contracts must expire.
A covenant puts you all in, your soul, and all you have. Forever.
I am sorry if you have had a marriage that ended.

We have trapeze people swinging from relationship to relationship trying to fill the God-shaped hole in their heart, and nothing fits because they deny the hole is there in the first place. This is an important message for kids because they can't learn it from the internet or by example. The most useful thing a church can do is to teach the kids that they must not marry on a whim, and keep their pants on.

Good Cheer

02-07-2022, 01:18 PM

What I "believe" and defend is the Bible, not "theory".

Theories are ideas that have to be tested and proven. I'm saying what the Bible actually says about Zion, not what I would like for it to say; YOU only have theories!

Your promised land error is not critical to any Christian doctrines so, to that extent, your mistake doesn't matter. BUT, on the other hand, your determined repetitions that the Bible says something it does not say IS an important matter because the dependability of scripture - as it's written - does matter, a lot!

I also have a few foggy Bible theories but I do not contest them with anyone because they're only my theories, ideas that I cannot prove from the written word. Therefore, no good would be gained by me insisting that my unprovable theories are better than anyone else's unprovable theories so I rarely mention them.

I've invited you several times to document YOUR "conditional promised land THEORY". You've not yet given us a single thing other than your mistaken "belief" that God made a conditional promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for much sand-land (Zion). But, you haven't proven your "theory" because there is literally no Biblical support for that mistake! (You aren't a Biblically ignorant man, if there were any such scripture you would have posted it long before now.)

I don't believe it's happenstance that you have "concluded" God's unilateral land promises to Abraham and his tribe were conditional. But you're so convinced of the rightness of your "belief" that you firmly stick to conclusions that cannot be Biblically supported. Okay, that's factually wrong but it's not a condition for salvation so you won't go to hell for it!

I'll close by saying your perceived "badgering" on my part has been in respectful opposition to your determined efforts to corrupt scripture by claiming it supports what you have been wrongly taught about God's land promises .... and Zionism. But surely it hasn't taken much courage for you to do that! :)

You hit those all caps all you want. I think you're the one that is incorrectly perceiving not only what I have said but what scripture says. We disagree. The difference is that I do not stand accusing you of efforts to corrupt scripture nor have I insulted you or your teachers.

As to your invitations, you have stated your position. And, I have stated mine which is of historical facts, that He imputed righteousness to Abram to make the deal and gave us ample evidence that it was by His grace to seal the deal. And that on multiple occasions unrighteousness is what subsequently got descendants of Abraham expelled from the land. Our creator has not changed. And, to the best possible knowledge evidenced by history those conditions have not changed even unto today. Which should tell anyone what the spiritual condition of the people, forgiven by grace, will be at the end.

By the way, many people who do their homework on modern day Israel are greatly offended by the behavior regularly shoved in the world's face. Because of this some people become anti-Israel and/or anti-Zionist and close their eyes to there being good figs in the basket as well as the bad figs, and as I stated elsewhere they want to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Excusing what the bad figs do is wrong. Just as wrong as condemning the good figs for the actions of the bad. Just as wrong as claiming people of the Jewish faith are a race. Just as wrong as accusing someone of anti-semitism when Jews are a culture based ethnicity rather than a race. But people who voice hard feelings against "the Jews" can be a lot of fun to see the looks on their faces when you ask them, "What do you think the chances are that you're not descended from Abraham?" Especially when they just got through saying with a straight face that Abraham was nothing but an illiterate Jewish goat herder. That's the one where you really know you're wasting your time so don't bother pointing out that Jews hadn't been invented yet.

Good Cheer

02-07-2022, 01:23 PM

I still don't see what your point is.

Already explained that.
I was asked and answered questions.
I don't have a point of contention. But I do have a contentious badger.:rolleyes:

1hole

02-08-2022, 08:06 PM

I think you're the one that is incorrectly perceiving not only what I have said but what scripture says. We disagree.

We disagree because we are talking about two different things. I believe you're talking about what you've almost certainly been taught - but will not discuss - about the Jews and what you THINK about God's promised homeland while I'm talking about what scripture actually tells us that God said. God's homeland promise to Abraham (+ Jacob and Isaac) was specific and that promise was unconditional. (In fact, ol' Abe hardly knew what was going on, he mostly slept through it!)

You won't say it but I THINK you're conflating the covenant land as synonymous with the lands the Jews have imperfectly held and lost in the past. For that to be true requires us to think God was mistaken when he made his land promise for them. I do NOT believe God didn't precisely know when and how often the Jews would fail and he knew what He would do about it so the history you're concerned about does NOT disprove anything at all about the future of Zion! Thus, God's promised land - all of it, not just a fragment - will yet be theirs. I believe it will be theirs during the Millennial Kingdom because THAT, and only that, fits O.T. prophecy about both the end time times and a very idealistic period in the Jewish homeland.

The difference is that I do not stand accusing you of efforts to corrupt scripture nor have I insulted you or your teachers.

You wrongly accuse me because I've not accused you OR your "teachers" of any conscious efforts to corrupt scripture. In fact I'm certain you are doing your best to follow teachers you trust but your teachers are wrong; I have said you have been taught an incorrect interpretation of what constitutes Zion. Your stated "belief" carries the effect that God got his land promise to Abe is wrong. Your refusal to engage in honest discussion about that specific question tends to support my fear that you are parroting something you've long been taught and believe but do not fully understand its implications.

..... you have stated your position. And, I have stated mine which is of historical facts, ...

Your vague historical references to Jewish failures are factual but that's just history to this moment; prophecy is history before it happens. Your facts don't even come close to including the "facts" of prophecy.

Historically, we still have the Book of Revelation to get through and that alone will take humanity more than 1,007 years AFTER the Rapture!

Everything I've said in this thread about the (coming) Jewish promised homeland has come straight from scripture. Unlike your position, it easily fits in with all other end time prophecies and it's so simple to grasp that no one had to teach me a word of it.

You (and the Jews!) must be patient a little longer to see exactly how He works it all out but if you trust God the way I trust Him you know we'll all get there eventually. And, when we do, I believe you'll find every one of His promises will have been proven true, and exactly as He said!!

----------------------------------------

Now. This is it, I concede. My effort to get you to even consider that God's holy land promise to Abe still remains valid has failed. Even so, you are spiritually quite safe because no one will go to hell for disbelieving some of God's promises and doctrines.

So, relax. I hereby promise not to BADGER you anymore with attempted serious looks at the truths God spoke when He, all by himself and unconditionally, made a blood covenant promise of that land to Abe and his seed.

Everyone should take a look at Gen 15:7-21 for just one of the several accounts of what God's unilateral blood covenant for the land of promise is and how it came to be. And while you're there, check the full extent of the land's promised borders. (Note there was no land carved out of the Promised Land for Gaza or any future Muslims; anyone wanting to protest that needs to take it up with God, not me! :) )

Good Cheer

02-09-2022, 10:46 AM

Good.

ioon44

02-13-2022, 10:19 AM

English Standard Version Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Good Cheer

02-13-2022, 12:22 PM

English Standard Version Genesis 12:3
I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

Genesis 12:2 and 12:3 are worthy of a whole topic thread unto themselves.
Side note: If you want to to see something funny, ask someone who is anti-Israel or anti-Jew what they think the chances are that aren't descended from Abraham.

Good Cheer

11-21-2022, 10:01 PM

well these days I sure do have more appreciation for ma'am-ma and her setting down the law, that there won't be discussion of politics or religion at her dinner table.

Saw it on network news, the advice not to discuss politics during Thanksgiving.

Good Cheer

02-02-2023, 02:29 PM

While studying on the anti-Christ faiths of some founding fathers, it reminded me of this thread.
But I couldn't remember, was Cahn's premise based upon our nation having been established as dedicated to Christ or what? Had to go find it. So here's what I found, on Cahn's website rather than pulling my copy of Harbinger down off the shelf.

According to the website in 1630 John Winthrop "dedicated our nation to the purposes of God, founded after the pattern of ancient Israel."

That doesn't work. I'll go back to studying why the country was founded on deism and occult theologies, why it has a great huge phallus sticking up through a vesica piscis, a pregnant goddess belly capitol dome with the Apotheosis Of Washington painted on its insides.
By the way, I don't doubt for a moment that our creator set this country up to play keys roles in bringing about the end times we are even now living through and that the anti-Christs are trying to use the power of our country to suborn God's works.

ioon44

02-02-2023, 06:18 PM

"That doesn't work. I'll go back to studying why the country was founded on deism and occult theologies, why it has a great huge phallus sticking up through a vesica piscis, a pregnant goddess belly capitol dome with the Apotheosis Of Washington painted on its insides."

My understanding is all this happened long after John Winthrop in 1630 and the James town colonies were more secular in their beliefs, more of a commercial enterprise.

Jesus said let the wheat and tares grow together, they will be separated at harvest time.

I know there is a lot more to it but that's my 2.5 cents worth.

Good Cheer

02-02-2023, 09:07 PM

To my way of thinking you nailed it, even if you held back.

.429&H110

02-03-2023, 05:43 PM

Harbinger co-relates
9/11
with
Isaiah 9:11

10The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.

11Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together;

12The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Amen

George Washington, in his first inaugural speech
declared a covenant with God.
God has Blessed and Protected America.
George prayed in that church across the street from all that destruction.
The church's sycamores protected the church, and died,
so we replanted with cedars.

Whole Harbinger full of prophesy fulfilled
with a real warning that God does not forget.
But we forgot.

ioon44

02-03-2023, 06:39 PM

We Build Back Better but don't Repent.

Good Cheer

02-03-2023, 10:06 PM

I remember Cahn saying something about it along with the part about the tree, but having read the first inaugural speech I don't see where President Washington declared a covenant with God.
Beats me fellas. But like I said before, I don't doubt for a moment that our creator set this country up to play keys roles in bringing about the end times.

Good Cheer

07-26-2023, 10:39 AM

A recent interview with Cahn, his take on what's happening.
https://usawatchdog.com/dont-count-trump-or-god-out-jonathan-cahn/

Alabama358

07-30-2023, 04:09 PM

Jonathan Cahn and the Present Shemitah of 2015

What happened to the BIG SHEMITAH that was suppose to happen in Sept 2015?

I got caught up back then listening to his entertaining Jewish fables... special dates, special signs, cows being born with 7s on their foreheads... lol I still have a German Sheppard dog named Shemitah (true story lol)
Stock market was suppose to crash, Financial system was suppose to collapse, wars blah blah blah.
The only thing that really happened was that Mr. Cahn (I think he calls himself Rabbi) made millions selling books and speaking engagements.

Entertaining he is... a Prophet he is not
if he is I am still trying to find an example of a true Prophet of the LORD that raked in millions in $$$ and wasn't 100% accurate.

Matthew 23:8
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

Good Cheer

07-31-2023, 04:13 PM

Proof is in the pudding.

.429&H110

07-31-2023, 06:17 PM

Been a long ways since last February...
Washington's covenant with God was Cahn's idea, made me go look it up.
This first inaugural was given in New York not far from Ground Zero
here is the piece I think Cahn references, sounds like a Covenant to me.

from Washington's First Inaugural:
...It would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge.