.45acp heavy loads... Worth it?

[ryanmattes]

I've got a 454190 that I really want to try in a 1911, but it's dropping a grain or two over 250. I know this mold is better suited to .45 Colt, and I have a Ruger Vaquero 7" I'll load it for.

But is it worth trying to load it for .45acp? Load data is harder to find in those weights, and I worry about seating depth with heavy slugs like this one.

Thoughts? Successful loads? Should I even bother?

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[358429]

Make some fresh dud Cartridges (5 is a good number) (no primer no powder) that will fit flush into the barrel when it is removed from the gun.

Turn the barrel off upside down, and gravity should pull ( the loaded cartridge assembly) back out Barrel Hood/chamber.
Should drop freely. This is your maximum overall length for chambering the plunk test cuz you just plunk em in and plunk em out.

If these duds Feed from the magazine then assemble the gun and Cycle of the Duds again and make sure they don't hang up when manually operated.

I've done a ton of 9 mm single stage. I have never loaded 45 to save my life. I expect it would be the same thing. If I'm very wrong I'm sorry.

Begin at the starting load with a gun powder that is slow for caliber and work your way up, until the group's open up then back off, confirm no leading and confirm accuracy, make sure the recall operations function correctly.



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[DougGuy]

255gr LSWC works great in 45 ACP for bowling pins and as a hunting load, throated barrels feed these slicker than snot on a glass door knob.

The 454190 has a long front profile, it may seat too far down in the case once it is seated enough to cycle through the magazine for use in an autoloader. You could use it in a 45 ACP revolver without issue, IF you can come up with some load data for it.

These are just my first thoughts about that boolit in a 1911, I could be mitsaken :bigsmyl2:

[ryanmattes]

So other than COAL problems with throat size and magazine size, potential pressure issues from seating too deeply, potential cycle issues from too heavy a spring for a low pressure load, it's a piece of cake? 8-)

Meh, I may just pick up something rnfp in 230gr.

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[littlejack]

ryanmattes:
Go to the "Advanced Search" and check out, "Heavy bullets in 45acp". You will get all the I information you want. Speer manuals #12 and #13 both have load data for the Speer 260 grain jacketed hp. The Lee 452-255 mould, casts a very good heavy slug that works very well. I have tried this lee slug using the Speer 260 grain jhp data. It worked very well. Also, I have some 260 grain cast bullets I traded for years ago. These are two groove bullets, with a .250 meplat, made for the 45 Colt. 9nTheir length is .700. So when seated for the taper crimp the come middle way up the first driving band, there is .375 of the bullet seated in the case. This gives a COAL of 1.235. With 6.0 grains of Herco, i've chronographed this load at 875 fps average of 10 shots. This load works fine in my firearm. I'm not recommending it in any other. As to you're question, "Worth it?" You will have to answer that for yourself.
Regards

[waksupi]

What is more of a concern, is hot loads. i cracked the frame on one on my 1911's from a steady diet of Jeff Cooper level loads. The gun is still fully functional, and a police armorer said it would be good for another 100,000 rounds or so. Heavy loads now get fed to a Hi Point I don't mind sacrificing.

[Char-Gar]

Some folks do it, I would not. The 1911 pistol is a marvelous thing, a symphony in steel where parts move in a certain order at a certain speed and it all comes together in a wonderful way. We have so many great 230 +- grains bullet molds available today, I can't fathom the reason to step back in history with an antiquated 45 Colt designed bullet. Your pistol, your choice!

[fredj338]

I loaded some Lee 255gr in my 45acp. They actually come closer to 260gr. Run them about 800fps, shoot fine I just see no point. The old Speer manual had 260gr data so not off the wall.

[Bigslug]

I really don't see a reason to do it, and see good reasons not to.

The seating depth and pressure concerns are valid - this is where blown out case webs in the 1911's unsupported chamber can come from.

There are any number of 230 grain LFN type bullets along the lines of the LBT 452-230 that can penetrate wonderfully and will transfer a good amount of energy into a milk jug or bowling pin if that's what makes you giggle - and they're made to run in the platform.

[45DUDE]

It should work fine. Back off on the powder. I have a 452460 200 grain that had ugly ends. I took it to a machine shop and had it punched out but left it the same nose <overall>length and turned it into a 255 grain. I ended up with 4.2 grains of American Select seated like a 452460 and a 18 pound spring. It barely clears the slide stop and shoots about 3'' high at 25 yards but groups good. I haven't tried it in a L.C. but it should work. The mold was screwed to start with so I didn't have much to loose and it worked. Heavy boolits kick more.

[44MAG#1]

The people who want to shoot heavier than normal bullets can justify it due to their desire to do so and the ones who don't want to can justify their claims too.
Just depends on what camp you choose to be in.
I have straddled the dividing line between both camps.

[scattershot]

Some folks do it, I would not. The 1911 pistol is a marvelous thing, a symphony in steel where parts move in a certain order at a certain speed and it all comes together in a wonderful way. We have so many great 230 +- grains bullet molds available today, I can't fathom the reason to step back in history with an antiquated 45 Colt designed bullet. Your pistol, your choice!


Eloquently put.

[gwpercle]

I wouldn't load 250 gran boolits in a 1911 . The pistol is designed around 230 gr. and seems to work best at that weight . A lot goes on with a 1911 and when boolits get too heavy or too light things just don't work right . My experience has shown that 200 to 230 grain boolits work best .
The unsupported case area under the feed ramp is also a real consideration .
Now ... In a Ruger Blackhawk , single action revolver ... that's a whole other story .
I have loaded 240 grain cast SWC's in 45 acp for the Blackhawk and they work just fine .
I use powders on the faster side because with the heavy SWC you have a limited powder capacity in the 45 acp case ... there is data in Lyman Cast Bullet 3rd edition under 45 auto-rim , with Bullseye , Red Dot and Unique ...these loads work like a charm !
Gary

[Mk42gunner]

As has been stated: it can work fine with no problems, it can cause problems.

My self, as I get older and more experienced, I tend to stay with original level or lower loads for most calibers. With the .45 ACP I have standardized my own usage with the Lyman 452460, a nominal 200 grain SWC. Simply because it uses less lead than a 230, and does what I want a .45 to do these days.

If you need more power, get a bigger gun.

Robert

[Gtek]

"If you need more power, get a bigger gun", Amen!

[Kosh75287]

When shooting bowling pins, I loaded 255 gr. Speer LSWCs, using data from a Speer Manual, for their 260 gr. JHP(JSP?) in .45 ACP. I used Unique or Herco, and began with starting loads, working up by 0.1 gr. until I obtained reliable ejection. I went 0.1 gr. higher for insurance (but was still 0.5 gr. or more under max.), and stopped experimenting.
I develpped these loads before I owned a chronograph, but I'm sure they were pushing the 255s over 700 f/s, and probably over 750 f/s. I doubt that velocities exceeded or even approached 800 f/s. The load was controllable, and VERY effective on bowling pins. With a hit slightly lower than center, it was common for the pins to take flight off the table, rather than being merely "shoved" across the table surface, off the edge.
When I quit shooting bowling pins, I quit using those loads, but the pistol I used then is STILL shooting now, with no signs of excessive wear or damage. I know that I put at least 700 such loads through the pistol, and probably closer to 1000.
There's nothing "EVIL" about running bullets weighing more than 230 grains through the 1911A1 platform at moderate velocities, but doing so is best suited to particular uses. For bowling pins, or defense in bear country when a .45 is your only (or heaviest) sidearm, pushing heavy bullets at the highest velocities at which control can be maintained, make a certain amount of sense. There may be other situations in which this makes sense, but I've listed the two that come to mind most quickly.

[ryanmattes]

Well, I'm not doing any of that.i just had a mold, wondered if I could load it for .45aavp, and couldn't find data. I was pretty sure people had loaded it before, but wasn't sure just how risky it was.its not worth the trouble, since I'm just making plinking ammo. I'm not in bear country and don't compete or shoot pins.

But I'll keep an eye out for a 452190 to load this profile for .45acp.

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[Texas by God]

I read about loading 300 gr flat nose boat tail jacketed bullets( custom made) in the .45 ACP a few years ago. Not for me- I did the Speer 260gr fling long ago. I like 200gr swc and 230gr truncated cone only now- unless someone gives me factory hardball ammo.

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[megasupermagnum]

Sure, it works great. 250-260 grains isn't a huge jump over a standard weight bullet. It's no more a bad idea than using a 185 grain. You have to understand the limits of your gun if you want to shoot a lot of them, but you'll never convince me a 255 gr at 750 fps is any worse for a 1911 than a 230 gr at 850 fps. If you want to push to max or even +P loads, that's great too. I even shoot them in my aluminum framed P220, I just don't shoot a lot of them. I shoot the Lee 252gr SWC at around 850 fps with 8.5 gr of Bluedot at 1.210" OAL. Is it a big difference over a 230gr at a little higher velocity? Probably not, but there's not a huge selection of wide blunt nosed bullets like there are 250-260 gr.

[alamogunr]

Lately I've only cast 200 gr. H&G 68 from a MP 4 cavity mold. I'm considering casting some 230 Arsenal WFN. I like the larger meplat on the Arsenal mold. The 200 gr shoot great. I haven't checked them across the chrono but doubt that they exceed 800fps. I haven't looked up loads for the 230 gr boolit but it shouldn't be hard to find several that would work. Here is a link to the Arsenal site:
http://arsenalmolds.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=212

[lotech]

That's more of an "it's possible" stunt than anything with practical value. How much useful difference is there between a 230 grain bullet and one of 250 grains?

[AnthonyB]

Friend beagle sent me an assortment of heavy 45s from his mold selection about twenty years ago to do a follow up article to his heavy bullet article on Castpics. I did the initial shooting/chronograph work with a 1911 and Glock 30, but never got a roundtoit on finishing the article. The Glock magazine would accept a longer AOL, but there were really no other major differences. My favorite was the 452423, but as beagle reported, the heavies were generally not as accurate as the RCBS 45-230 CM at long range. Fiddling with OAL got everything to feed, and velocities using published loads were useable, but I quickly decided the heavies didn’t justify the effort. Now that I have several different 45 pistols the feeding problems would be multiplied. I found a 44 Special and gave up on heavy bullets in the 45 pistols. As others posted, it can be done if that is all you have.
Tony

[Burnt Fingers]

I wouldn't load 250 gran boolits in a 1911 . The pistol is designed around 230 gr. and seems to work best at that weight . A lot goes on with a 1911 and when boolits get too heavy or too light things just don't work right . My experience has shown that 200 to 230 grain boolits work best .
The unsupported case area under the feed ramp is also a real consideration .
Now ... In a Ruger Blackhawk , single action revolver ... that's a whole other story .
I have loaded 240 grain cast SWC's in 45 acp for the Blackhawk and they work just fine .
I use powders on the faster side because with the heavy SWC you have a limited powder capacity in the 45 acp case ... there is data in Lyman Cast Bullet 3rd edition under 45 auto-rim , with Bullseye , Red Dot and Unique ...these loads work like a charm !
Gary

The original 45 ACP loading was a 200 gr bullet. Big Army insisted on a 230 gr bullet.

[megasupermagnum]

That's more of an "it's possible" stunt than anything with practical value. How much useful difference is there between a 230 grain bullet and one of 250 grains?

As I said, the big difference is most 230 gr are small nosed, designed with best feeding as the #1 design consideration. Most 255ish gr are blunt, designed for 45 colt and such. That Arsenal molds bullet is the only 230 grain option I know of, other than ordering one from Accurate molds.

So the real question is, should you spend big money on a blunt 230 grain, or just shoot a $22 Lee 255 gr lee mold? This is assuming you need a big flat nose for hunting or whatnot in the first place.

[fredj338]

A lot of nay sayers here but running heavier than 230gr is easily & safely done. I have run 285gr lswc just for fun, 825fps, nothing bends with the right powders.

[Hanzy4200]

Go for it! To the negative Nancy's, why do we do most of the stuff we do? Why resurrect a 100 year old rifle, spend $200 in equipment and hours of time, just to shoot it? Because we can, and it's a challenge.