Newbie member/newbie shooter - rolling block action question

[Bogonion]

Xxx

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Welcome to the Forum, Bogonion! Not so fast on that deletion. Sometimes it takes someone who is interested awhile to see your post/thread. I assure you that many here are interested in Rollers. Have one myself. "Come on back", as the CB radio operators say. There's hundreds of posts a day, and it takes awhile to read through them.

DG

[Bogonion]

Thanks for the encouragement but prefer you delete. Can I cancel my account myself or does and administrator have to do that? I'm still reading lot's of good info but prefer to do so as a guest until I get ore familiar with ter inology, etc. Am concerned have made wrong choice in choosing to cast my own bullets. Many posts suggest lead is or becoming extinct and/or too expensive for our purpose.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Doggone, I was hoping we'd chat about Rollers. As for your request to be cancelled, can't and don't want to do that unless you seriously break our rules, in which case you can't come back. It doesn't cost anything to be a member, so just hang around and give us a chance. As for lead, there are many innovative places to find it.

DG

[Bogonion]

I'll be around and reading. When I feel I can say or ask something without changing feet in mouth, I'll jump in.
Right now I'm off to research the site for experienced opinions on strength of Pedersoli rolling block actions (my original thread question). Want to start off with this rifle using safe pressure smokeless loads. Have read the Pedersoli lawyer's info regarding using factory only. Want to see what others know regarding action strength and loading.

[725]

Welcome to the site. Many here to discuss lots of topics.

1- Lead. I get most from auto shops (wheel weights, aka: WW). Got a stained glass shop in town and get his scraps for almost no money. Roofing jobs, scuba divers, commercial electronics guys, hospitals, ......... Lots of places to get lead. Just keep you eye open.

2- Pedersoli strength question. I shoot .45-70 and have never found a good reason to advance past trap door level loads. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I have tried some hotter loads and didn't enjoy the recoil. Your rifle surely can handle the lowest levels category of loading.

Best of luck.

[Bogonion]

Thanks for the information. From reading smokeless load information had drawn a conclusion that your experience confirmed. Trap door loads will accomplish all my objectives with less pressure stress and recoil.

All the reload info was broken down to trap door/lever/modern very strong actions. None mentioned by name which class the modern replica shops and Rrollin blocks fit into. Was curious why no mention of same. Law suit reasons perhaps?

[richhodg66]

I shoot a rolling block in .45-70, my loads for 100 yard target shooting are pretty wimpy even by Trap Door standards, but they shoot great.

As to the lead inavailability, most of the naysayers aren't willing to look for it. I have probably a couple thousand pounds on hand, a lot of which I got very cheap or free, just by keeping an eye open for it and being willing to work a little for it (range salvage, scrounging demolition sites, etc.). It's out there, just gotta be diligent.

[marlinman93]

Of course you can't go wrong with Trapdoor level loads, but Lever Gun level loads shouldn't be a problem either in a modern Pedersoli, as long as you start out with the lower range of the load data, and work from there.

[koger]

The only wrong question, is the one unasked by you. Great folks here willing to help you. And your gun should be up to any lever action load, as stated by Marlinman93. I have shot several Pedersoli RB's with some stout loads, with no issues. There guns should handle any factory level loads on the market.

[pietro]

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Welcome, Bogonion !

Please don't be concerned about looking foolish - as, no matter how expert anyone may seem to be, we all had to start somewhere.

Large companies, like Pedersoli, are governed by the safety concerns of their lawyers - who are super fearful that someone will win a lawsuit against their company for whatever reason.

Even with a win, defending a lawsuit (frivolous or not) costs money that the company would rather not spend.


Modern rolling block rifles are perfect for reasonable (trapdoor) smokeless loads - as the recoil is taken up by only 2 pins, and not a solid part of the action (like a falling block action).

Remember, they had to pass smokeless proof testing to get out of Italy.

Unjacketed lead boolits will usually need milder loads than used with jacketed boolits, because the unjacketed boolits will not react correctly with the rifling at the higher speed/pressure.

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[Jim22]

I have a thing for rolling blocks. Never owned one but have lusted after them. My opinion, FWIW, is that the Remington actions are stronger than most people think. The fact that they were built by Remington in 7x57 Mauser says a lot to me. I'm no metallurgist but like others here I think the Pedersoli rifles prolly have better steel in them than the originals.

I need to check their site to see if they make a 38-55 rifle.

Jim

[marlinman93]

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Modern rolling block rifles are perfect for reasonable (trapdoor) smokeless loads - as the recoil is taken up by only 2 pins, and not a solid part of the action (like a falling block action).

Remember, they had to pass smokeless proof testing to get out of Italy.

Unjacketed lead boolits will usually need milder loads than used with jacketed boolits, because the unjacketed boolits will not react correctly with the rifling at the higher speed/pressure.

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That's something I've often wondered about? So many companies building clones of the old single shot rifles mention using BP in their guns. But I often wondered if they test their guns before shipping, and if they test them using BP or smokeless?

[pietro]

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As stated, many firearms company recommendations are driven by their nervous lawyers

AFAIK, by law, all European made firearms must go to a proof house and pass proof testing before they can be sold/exported.

The proof marks on the gun will let a buyer know if it passed smokeless proof or black powder (only) proof - regardless of any recommendations.

US made firearms are not legally required to pass proof, although some larger makers may fire a proof load, or at least perform a "normal" firing test.

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[marlinman93]

I see the proof marks on numerous European firearms, and always wondered how the various companies dealt with taking every firearm they made to a proof house to be tested, and stamped? Or do the proof houses send inspectors to the factory to do these proof tests?
Seems an overwhelming task for a country like Italy, with all their firearms makers and every gun having to be proof tested!

[pietro]

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Mandatory firearms proofing is big business for the governments.....

I would think that the makers transport firearms to the proof houses in huge batches, as the various runs of arms are completed.

I would further opine that the governmental entity(s) receives substantial income from proofing fees to support multiple proof houses.

The European firearms proof system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_internationale_permanente_pour_l%27%C3% A9preuve_des_armes_%C3%A0_feu_portatives

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[farmbif]

bog onion you are starting out in a very good way as a new shooter you cannot learn new thing without asking people who would know the correct answers.
and also as a new shooter starting out with learning to cast and load your own ammo right from the git go is a big plus. just by chance that kind of what happened to me when I was about 10 we got this mail order cap and ball 44 cal that came with a bullet mold and me and my cousin were off to the races salvaging wheel weights off of any old cars and trucks and old cracked open batteries we could find out back on the farm. my dad had us shooting skeet and reloading shotshells about that same time.
but it was that old Italian copy of an 1858 army that got me started in casting bullets.
so please don't feel that your asking something that is dumb or stupid. you cannot learn new things without reading about it or asking folks that would know the answers to your questions.
there are no stupid questions when you want to learn something new.

[Bogonion]

I have a thing for rolling blocks. Never owned one but have lusted after them. My opinion, FWIW, is that the Remington actions are stronger than most people think. The fact that they were built by Remington in 7x57 Mauser says a lot to me. I'm no metallurgist but like others here I think the Pedersoli rifles prolly have better steel in them than the originals.

I need to check their site to see if they make a 38-55 rifle.

Jim

Good morning Jim,
Pedersoli does make rolling block in 38/55 it's their sporter model. In fact I just placed an order for one last week as a little brother to my new long range Creedmoor 45/70. Long delivery if it has to come directly out of Italy.
Anticipate I will see the 45-70 early this fall pending no hang ups. 38-55 delivery has been estimated at late summer 2022 with a maybe sooner pending no hang ups. The 45-70 comes with front tunnel c/w inserts and long range tang mount vernier. 38-55 comes with bead front and open rear. Pedersoli makes a nice universal long range vernier at a reasonable price which I will replace the rear sight on the 38-55 with.

[Bogonion]

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As stated, many firearms company recommendations are driven by their nervous lawyers

AFAIK, by law, all European made firearms must go to a proof house and pass proof testing before they can be sold/exported.

The proof marks on the gun will let a buyer know if it passed smokeless proof or black powder (only) proof - regardless of any recommendations.

US made firearms are not legally required to pass proof, although some larger makers may fire a proof load, or at least perform a "normal" firing test.

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Can you direct to a source for a chart referencing which proof marks indicate smokeless test and which are BP or are the stampings easily interpreted to differentiate? I skimmed the wiki web site posted by Pietro but didn"see any symbols. Will definitely be returning to that Wikipedia site to read thoroughly. It describes proof testing procedures which I find very interesting.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

287195

Here's a good book to have if you're interested in proof marks. It was published in Germany around 1978 and subsequently printed in both Canada and the U.S. It might be hard to find one, but you never know what will appear on e-bay. Also, another good place to look would be Cornell Publications. In general, proof mark and date codes are hard to find, and I've managed to accumulate some information here and there over the years, like perhaps an article in The American Rifleman now and then, etc. Some information is available on the internet, but usually about a specific country. If you want to PM me your mailing address I'll send you a copy of what's in the book concerning Italy. But, 1978 was a long time ago now, (43 years) and things may have changed a bit.

DG

[pietro]

Can you direct to a source for a chart referencing which proof marks indicate smokeless test and which are BP or are the stampings easily interpreted to differentiate ?



Here ya go: http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

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[Bogonion]

Here ya go: http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

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Much appreciated!

[drjjpdc]

I got a roller. It's a Remington model made by Pedersoli in .45-70 and has a 26" barrel.

https://i.imgur.com/sZ7O29E.jpg?1