Ball Powder for Cast Loads in .44 Special and .44 Rem Mag

[Scrumbag]

Hi folks,

I'm looking to develop a load for mainly shooting 240gr RNFP out of a 20" lever action (1892 clone).

I'd ideally like a ball powder that goes through a powder measure easily.

I can fairly easily get Ramshot Zip and Ramshot True Blue here. Has anyone loaded those combos before?

Best wishes,

Scrummy

[BNE]

I have used True Blue for medium power 44 magnum loads and normal power 9mm loads.

I think it is a GREAT powder. It meters very consistently and doesn’t hang up in your equipment like stick powders. It shoots clean also.

I have a can of Zip, but have not tried it yet.

Great powder, I highly recommend the brand.

BNE

[Scrumbag]

Thanks BNE, ideally looking for a plinking load which is sub sonic.

I have had good luck with Ramshot TAC and my limited runs of X-terminator in .223 Rem.

Also, Ramshot tends to be quite reasonably priced over here in the UK (For example, Hodgdon Universal is about 25% more than Zip and True Blue)

[Outpost75]

For medium velocity Cowboy load approximating .44-40 velocity 7 grains of TiteGroup, 231, HP38, WST or 452AA in .44 Mag with 230-250 grain bullet. Use same in .44-40, reduce 1 grain for .44 Special

[bruce381]

Accurate 2 or 5 meters like water or even old school hp 38/ww231

[dverna]

HP 38 would be my choice

[Walks]

N.O.E. TL432-249-RF over 5.5grs TiteGroup in a .44Mag Case. I have a Friend that's been shooting it for 20+yrs.

[Green Frog]

As others have said, HP38/W-231 meters well... I would probably use it for moderate loads. When I was loading “full power” rounds for Handgun Silhouette, I used 2400, but if wanted a ball type powder for full house loads, I’d probably look at Accurate #9 because I’ve got a bunch of it in a non-canister batch I picked up for rifle use many years ago. I haven’t looked at the Accurate data sheets for 44s lately, but I’m pretty sure they’ll have something there for you. I used that powder in my bench gun because it metered like water and I could get super precise charges.

Froggie

[alfadan]

AA9 is my choice.

[MT Gianni]

AA 5 for light loads. AA 9 for heavies.

[Jedman]

HS-6. Jedman

[Shuz]

WC 820 If you can find it! I'm glad to still have an 8 pounder.

[NuJudge]

I have shot a lot of 240gr Keith SWC powered by light charges of 231 in 6.5 inch barreled revolvers, with excellent accuracy. I have tried to use 240gr Keith SWC bullets in a Winchester 94 rifle, and there is a problem getting them to feed out of the magazine and into the barrel. The portion of the bullet sticking out of the case is too long. I do not have a 92 rifle, so I cannot say whether they have the same problem.

Here is a burn rate chart, where you can 'figure out what is close: https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf
My reading of the above is that Zip is the closest to the 231 that I like. I have a pound of Zip that I won at a pistol match years ago, and have never done anything with.

[Scrumbag]

Thanks folks, keep the suggestions coming!

[gwpercle]

You mention being able to get Western Powders - Ramshot Zip and Ramshot True Blue .
Western also makes Accurate ( Accurate Arms) powders and if these are available , they may not be 100% true "Ball" powders ...but they are fine grained and flow very easily , you won't find a powder that flows any better .
I cast and reload 41 Special and 41 Magnum and realy like AA #2 , AA #5 , AA#7 & AA#9 in cast boolit applications . I have not tried slower AA #11FS ...
The Accurate powders work great in the 41 Spcl/Mag and should do just as well in 44 Spcl/Mag and if free flowing and easy metering is wanted ...you need to give them a try .
I shoot a lot of AA# 5 , it's similar to Unique in burn. AA #2 is similar to Red Dot .
They all measure easily .
Gary

P.S. I just have to ask ... in the UK ...what is a scrumbag ?

[Scrumbag]

You mention being able to get Western Powders - Ramshot Zip and Ramshot True Blue .
Western also makes Accurate ( Accurate Arms) powders and if these are available , they may not be 100% true "Ball" powders ...but they are fine grained and flow very easily , you won't find a powder that flows any better .
I cast and reload 41 Special and 41 Magnum and realy like AA #2 , AA #5 , AA#7 & AA#9 in cast boolit applications . I have not tried slower AA #11FS ...
The Accurate powders work great in the 41 Spcl/Mag and should do just as well in 44 Spcl/Mag and if free flowing and easy metering is wanted ...you need to give them a try .
I shoot a lot of AA# 5 , it's similar to Unique in burn. AA #2 is similar to Red Dot .
They all measure easily .
Gary

P.S. I just have to ask ... in the UK ...what is a scrumbag ?

Thanks Gary, think they might be branded Lovex over here but I shall look into it

[farmbif]

true blue ive never used but western has good data for it for 240 grain 44 mag. I use no 9, works great for pistol loads in rifle, I get good accuracy in 44 mag and 45 colt both in rifles with no9 and 4227, lately ive been using a lot of 300mp for full powder loads and be86 for milder loadings. have had no problem with any of these powders running through powder measure on progressive press. its been years since ive used universal in 44 spl or mag, but it works as a less than max possible velocity load.
there is something about slower powders in pistol caliber rifles that just seems to work well. for 44 cal I lube size at .431 with carnauba red with clww plus a bit of tin and so far so good no leading in regular Ballard rifling or marlin microgroove

[winelover]

For 44 Magnum, 2400 gets my vote. Meters just as well as the others and isn't fussy about downloading.

My CA 44 Special Bulldog gets whatever powder I happen to want to use up. Right now it's being fed W231 and 240 grain cast. I have used loads with Bullseye, Unique, 2400 & AA#7, in the past. I have a pound of True Blue, that I purchased to try with cast in a 9mm carbine. Wasn't a standout, so eventually it will get used up in the short barreled Bulldog.

Winelover

[David2011]

For .44 Mag I use 2400; for .44 Special I like Winchester 231.

[onelight]

Alliant BE-86 flows well in my measures , it produces similar power to Unique .

[W.R.Buchanan]

H110 or W296 same powder. these have been the goto powders for these cartridges since the beginning.

My standard Load for .44 Magnum Rifle and Heavy Pistol loads is 23 gr of H110 with a Lyman/Thompson SWC 429244 GC

Midrange loads for those two cartridges consist of a Keith Boolit 429421 with 6.0g r of W231, for the Special and 8.0 gr of W231 for the Magnum cases. This serves most uses with pistols.

Randy

[Mal Paso]

I'm a 2400 shooter, meters very well but it's extruded not ball. I shoot 4 & 6 inch revolvers, 260g boolits at about 1300-1350 fps.

Accurate 5, 7, 9 and 11FS are all spherical powders that work in 44. #9 feels a little crisper than 2400. I just got a pound of 11FS to try. It's flash suppressed, 296 and MP 300 really light up the shooting bench in short barreled revolvers.

Hodgdon owns Ball Powders but spherical is the same thing. It is one of the least expensive methods first developed to salvage military surplus nitro cellulose which was dissolved, converted to an emulsion of small spheres with nitro glycerin added to adjust power.

[winelover]

Unlike 2400, H-110/W-296, can't be successfully downloaded. Don't always want or need full blown loads.

Winelover

[dale2242]

The only ball powder I use in 44Mag, I don`t have a 44 Spec, is 296/H110.
As stated above, it is for full house loads only.
There are lots of other ball powders to use for light and medium loads.

[robg]

2400 is very flexible ,can be downloaded for medium loads h110/296 need to be mag loads.

[PAndy]

A close friend shoots both true blue and w231 with cast in a 41 mag rifle. After a lot of testing, those two have shot the best, fairly mild loads. Both worth a try. My tip for using true blue powder: don't spill it!

[Three44s]

HS6

Three44s

[mvozz]

Ball powder for 44 mag - H110 but only if you want some serious magnum loads! Lighter magnum loads Titegroup is great. Fun target loads - Trailboss if you can find it!

[fredj338]

Well Universal really isnt a ball powder. The Win line is spherical, flattened ball, So W231, WSF will work fine for midrange loads. You didnt say what your loading goal was so I am making some assumptions. Full bore 44mag, then H110/W296 or Aa#9.

[Noah Zark]

For medium velocity Cowboy load approximating .44-40 velocity 7 grains of TiteGroup, 231, HP38, WST or 452AA in .44 Mag with 230-250 grain bullet. Use same in .44-40, reduce 1 grain for .44 Special


HP 38 would be my choice


As others have said, HP38/W-231 meters well... I would probably use it for moderate loads. When I was loading “full power” rounds for Handgun Silhouette, I used 2400, but if wanted a ball type powder for full house loads, I’d probably look at Accurate #9 because I’ve got a bunch of it in a non-canister batch I picked up for rifle use many years ago. I haven’t looked at the Accurate data sheets for 44s lately, but I’m pretty sure they’ll have something there for you. I used that powder in my bench gun because it metered like water and I could get super precise charges.


Echoing Outpost, Don, and The Frog, and several others, HP38/W231 is one of my go-to powders for the 44 Special. It meters well, it's economical, it's consistent, fairly clean burning, and accurate.

It seems to me that because HP38/W231 particles are so small and low in absolute density, the powder is exceptionally sensitive to static charge from those flat and round plastic cans, so I keep a box of unscented dryer sheets on the reloading bench shelf and wipe down the outside of the powder can, Lee dippers if I'm dipping the charge, the powder measure hopper and metal body if I'm measuring, the nickel crucible that I use to hold powder for dipping with the Lee dippers, and pretty much anything else in sight on the bench. I've long ago drilled and tapped my reloading press frames for a lug terminal ground wire that I run to the 3/4" thick aluminum baseplate that's been drilled and tapped to mount the various presses that I use to the bench (I don't rely on the mounting bolts for grounding because of the paint on the press frames), and I have a separate lug-terminal ground wire from that aluminum mounting plate to a close by two duplex metallic outlet box cover screw. Between the grounding and periodic wipedowns with the dryer sheets, static buildup of power on plastic stuff is minimized.

Noah

[Forrest r]

I'd be looking at the true blue in the 44spl's and zip in the 44mags.

For subsonic loads in the 44mag's, I have yet to find anything that does better than clays powder using 200gr to 250gr bullets.

That's clays (not universal clays/international clays)

[405grain]

HS-6 for 44 Special and mid level 44 mag loads. H110 for rock-n-roll 44 mag loads.

[K43]

As Forrest goes, so goes I. I've been using Clays because I get in 8 pounders for Trap and Skeet loads. Not a spherical, but it meters very well in RCBS Uniflows, bar type dispensers (Pacific 366 and MEC shotshell presses), and electronic dispensers.

[MakeMineA10mm]

W231/HP-38/SMP-231 are all the same powder produced by St.Marks Powder in Florida. I’m very suspicious W244 and ZIP are also identical powders from St. Marks. W244 is marketed as being a cleaner/less smokey version of 231, and runs about .1 to .2 grains slower in pistol loads, Just. Like. ZIP. (Hence my suspicion.). Basically, if you develop a load with one of these, you can load them all the same. My Pet Loads are:

44 Special with 240-267gr boolit + 6.0grs of W231/W244/HP-38/ZIP/SMP-231 (This is about identical power to a 45 ACP-230gr full power load, but is very easy shooting (recoil low).

I also load 5.6grs with a 225gr RNFP in 44 Spl., for plinking fun, and I load 4.4grs in 44 Russian with a 210gr RNFP, when I don’t want to clean black powder fouling.

44 Magnum with 240-267gr boolit + 7.5grs of W231/W244/HP-38/ZIP/SMP-231 (This is how I introduce allnew shooters to the 44 Magnum. After a cylinder-full and a big grin, I give them 1 round of 295gr LFN with a case full of 2400. I then explain why the 44 Magnum is so great: Super flexible from an easy shooting target revolver to a hand canon; all depending on your needs and how you load it.

I do not care for H-110 with cast boolits. 2400 and 4227 are 92% as powerful, but better accuracy, less leading, and less concussion (lowers flinching).

[pjh421]

Unique for Specials, AA9 for Magnums if you can get it. Sounds like you know what you're doing though.