No More Slugging Barrels for Me :-)

[RydForLyf]

Just something I came up with today in order to find barrel size since I don't don't have any soft lead slugs to use. For me, this is easier than what I've gone through before to create slugs to use. If you have readily available slugs to use, by all means, use those. Please don't think I'm trying to get you to switch to this method.

This is easier for me, YMMV.

In short, make up a round with the bare minimum charge required for the bullet to clear the barrel when fired. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to clear a squib or two when you go too low. Once you get that "just barely" load, go get a roll of toilet paper and shoot into that. As long as your charge is low enough, the bullet will stop somewhere in the roll. All you have to do is search through the plies until you find your perfectly intact bullet.

Am I missing something that would cause the recovered bullet to not be just as good as a slug done in the usual way?

[wv109323]

Toilet paper is for sh------ and not shooting. I think any soft media would work. Why not sand at that velocity?

[AlHunt]

Well, once you clear the first squib, you have your measurement.

[John Boy]

A pure lead ball driven from the chamber with a hickory rod works good also for a fast bore sizing

[popper]

Kinda works but stuff like roll stamp and front sight notch make barrel NOT the same dia all the way down.

[high standard 40]

Also, in my opinion, any power charge that will reliably cause a bullet to exit the barrel may have enough momentum to slightly bump up the diameter of the bullet when it impacts the paper. Even if it's only a half thousandth, it would be an imperfect result. And I really don't see how this method is any easier than the traditional method.

[hoodat]

No way I'm gonna waste a valuable commodity like TP for that purpose. jd

[ABJ]

Just a guess, but will a squib load fully fill the grooves? I'm thinking not.
An oversize pure lead roundball is my method, it takes less than a min. and I can feel it all the way down, for tight or loose spots, which could be important.
Tony

[oley55]

seems like a lot of putzing around to find that special load that just clears the barrel but doesn't deform the boolit when it stops in whatever media, (and for sure the sand suggested media seems questionable).

I know I putzed around finding my just right slow speed fire-lapping load and then went out on a way colder day only to have every round squibbed until I set the rounds out in the sun to warm up a bit. (who knew 30-40 degrees difference would have so much impact on 357 mag loads with just 0.3 - 0.4 grains of Titegroup?)

[gwpercle]

Well, once you clear the first squib, you have your measurement.

That was my thought ... clear the squib and you have something to measure ...

I still haven't forgotten the Great Toilet Paper Shortage of 2020 ... I'm not wasting one single roll of my stash / hoard ... could have another wave any time ... and inflation keeps driving the price higher and higher .
Mom was fond of saying " Waste not , want not " .
Gary

[DougGuy]

If it's soft enough to slug the bore without springback, it is DEFINITELY soft enough to bump up in whatever "gentle" media you use to catch it.

Can't reinvent the mouse trap on this one, there are numerous credible posts on how to slug a barrel that work much better than the way you are describing.

[Wilderness]

For what it's worth, my .32-20 will put a lead bullet about 1/2" into the rifling with just a primer (probably not good for powder burn in real loads). By contrast, .32-40 and .30-30 stay put in the case - they would need some help to get the bullets into the throat.

[Shanghai Jack]

Also, in my opinion, any power charge that will reliably cause a bullet to exit the barrel may have enough momentum to slightly bump up the diameter of the bullet when it impacts the paper. Even if it's only a half thousandth, it would be an imperfect result. And I really don't see how this method is any easier than the traditional method.


So if we shoot it straight up and catch in on the way down - no deformation. Of course you need a $1 million Doppler Radar to track it on the way down.

[charlie b]

I have found that the dimensions of the throat are far more important than the bore after a trip down the barrel.

[dondiego]

They do it in swimming pools and ballistics labs tanks all of the time.

[porthos]

as Charlie B said there is nothing better than a pound cast of the throat. all slugging the bore tells you is the size of the smallest part of the bore, nothing else.

[DougGuy]

They do it in swimming pools and ballistics labs tanks all of the time.

Yes to capture a bullet to "fingerprint" it's rifling, etc but not dead soft lead which you use to slug a bore with. It is too soft to give an accurate measurement after it is fired into media that will stop it. Just the G forces of deceleration is enough to distort the diameter enough to introduce erroneous readings.

[dondiego]

Yes to capture a bullet to "fingerprint" it's rifling, etc but not dead soft lead which you use to slug a bore with. It is too soft to give an accurate measurement after it is fired into media that will stop it. Just the G forces of deceleration is enough to distort the diameter enough to introduce erroneous readings.

Interesting! I had never considered that.

[dverna]

I doubt I will ever slug another barrel.

But I am curious....if a .308 barrel slugs at .308, do you size to .309, .310, or something else? Why?

Second question, what variation have you guys have you seen in modern .308 barrels?

I think you can see where I am going with this. BTW, used a rifle barrel in the questions above as it matters even less for most pistol loads.

Just wondering if anyone shooting .38/.357 has ever had poor performance with a cast bullet sized .359? Or a 9mm sized .357?

[richhodg66]

Throat dimensions are more important. You get more and better information from a cerrosafe casting than slugging a bore anyway.

[Old Caster]

How close to bore size you make your bullets depends on the hardness of the lead. Once I bought some Dardas 45 200 grain bullets to shoot them and others from my ransom rest through my Les Baer to find the most accurate bullet available commercially. I accidentally bought a hundred of them sized .451. I thought no big deal and I will just use them to settle the ransom rest before testing what I figured would be the best. While shooting 10 rounds I came up with a group around two inches at 50 yards. I and my friends were amazed and said I should buy some .452's and some .453 so I did and when testing them, the .452's were worse with the 453's being even worse around 7 or 8 inches. This amazed me because my best groups with cast bullets were sized at .452 however the BHN on the Dardas measured around 17 and my cast measured 9. I assume the hard bullets did not like being swaged down but the soft ones did not mind. I also tried some of my soft bullets sized at .451 and they shot around 4 inches. Don't know for sure the reasons for all this but is something to think about and try if you don't have good results in what you are doing. All kinds of reasons for we don't know what.

[358429]

I doubt I will ever slug another barrel.

But I am curious....if a .308 barrel slugs at .308, do you size to .309, .310, or something else? Why?

Second question, what variation have you guys have you seen in modern .308 barrels?

I think you can see where I am going with this. BTW, used a rifle barrel in the questions above as it matters even less for most pistol loads.

Just wondering if anyone shooting .38/.357 has ever had poor performance with a cast bullet sized .359? Or a 9mm sized .357?I size my 9x19 bullets .358.

356 struck the target sideways and leaded the rifling.

If my bullets fit the brass and then the barrel throat when assembled, turning gun powder into noise is rewarded with accuracy.

I do not like Winchester pistol brass casings for cast bullets, it is thick and I suspect it swages the bullet smaller.

If it does not fit well, time to get the chore boy strands and brass brush ready, things could get messy.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[44Blam]

Clearly, you were not paying attention in Spring 2020...

[oley55]

Clearly, you were not paying attention in Spring 2020...

which of the 18 'you' are you referring to?

[mdi]

For me, that would be a lot more trouble than driving a slug doen the barrel. I have slugged nearly all my guns, no big deal and it only needs to be done one time (I normall drive 3 or 4 slugs to get more than one measurement). Lead balls, soft cast bullets, home made "slugging slugs" all work and are easy to come by, and I keep a box of various caliber slugs in my shop. A brass rod, some lube, a mallet and in a few minutes I have some slugs to measure...

[imashooter2]

Sounds like you plan to make a very simple process expensive, complex and time consuming. Have fun with that. I'll stick with a rod and round ball.

[waksupi]

My method is to fire a full power load. Then find a bullet diameter that slides into the fired case with a little resistance. This will be the size that fits my throats the best. I size about 1/3-1/2 of the neck to hold them in place. You need to fit to the throat, not the bore.

[dverna]

My method is to fire a full power load. Then find a bullet diameter that slides into the fired case with a little resistance. This will be the size that fits my throats the best. I size about 1/3-1/2 of the neck to hold them in place. You need to fit to the throat, not the bore.

That is something I have never heard of....but it makes sense. I will remember that if I ever decide to try cast in the rifles again.

[44Blam]

which of the 18 'you' are you referring to?

The ones shooting toilet paper...

[GregLaROCHE]

I’ve wondered if someone had a large swimming pool, if you couldn’t shoot into the water and recover the slug.

[44Blam]

I’ve wondered if someone had a large swimming pool, if you couldn’t shoot into the water and recover the slug.

People do recover slugs in gel or water bottles... I have a friend of mine a box of 500 grain 45-70s - I've joked that he should shoot them through water bottles and attempt to catch one. I told him 17 1 gallon bottles...

[imashooter2]

I’ve wondered if someone had a large swimming pool, if you couldn’t shoot into the water and recover the slug.

I may or may not have laid on the diving board and fired straight sown into a 10 foot deep pool to get some expanded .357 magnum JHPs. It may or may not have been a foolish thing to do in the squalid suburbs. But if someone were so inclined it would work great.

[blackthorn]

What is wrong with using a roll of toilet paper? When done, you can still use the paper for its intended purpose---just be careful where you place your finger(s)!!!

[jim147]

If i shot in our pool it would be a race to see if the wife or daughter shot me first.

[fredj338]

I honestly dont bother slugging bores. I have far too many diff guns to consider special sized bullets. I size 0.001" or sometimes 0.002" over jacketed & it has been fine for decades. IF I were looking to a specific rifle for accuracy loads, I might bother buy more likely to just try diff sized bullets for groups.

[DonHowe]

Just something I came up with today in order to find barrel size without the hassle of slugging the barrel.

In short, make up a round with the bare minimum charge required for the bullet to clear the barrel when fired. Unfortunately, you'll probably have to clear a squib or two when you go too low. Once you get that "just barely" load, go get a roll of toilet paper and shoot into that. As long as your charge is low enough, the bullet will stop somewhere in the roll. All you have to do is search through the plies until you find your perfectly intact bullet.

Am I missing something that would cause the recovered bullet to not be just as good as a slug done in the usual way?

By the time you ready to get I our bullet clear of the barrel the "hassle of slugging" is over and K am measuring slugs.

[RydForLyf]

Sand may work too. I'd be concerned about any damage the abrasiveness of the sand would do. TP is very clean and soft.

[RydForLyf]

Very true if you can get the squib out without deforming the bullet.

[RydForLyf]

Yes, and I've done that before. What I didn't like about that method is having to come up with the lead ball. This method doesn't require sourcing lead balls in each caliber, just shoot a couple of the bullets you've already got for that gun. No special slugs needed.

[RydForLyf]

Thanks for that. This is the type of potential flaw that I was looking for. :-)

[RydForLyf]

That's certainly a possibility. For me this was much easier because I don't have any lead balls to use as slugs. I was just doing the best I could with what I had on hand.

[RydForLyf]

One conclusion I've come to is that this does absolutely nothing to degrading the TP from performing flawlessly in its intended purpose. Actually, this activity adds texture, thereby potentially increasing its effectiveness. :-)

[RydForLyf]

That sounds plausible. I too would use the lead ball method but I don't have any.

[RydForLyf]

Well, us retired folks live for putzing around. It's what fills my day. :-)

[RydForLyf]

This brings back memories of a Myth Busters episode. :-)

[RydForLyf]

I'm playing around with a RR too, looking for nirvana. So far what I've determined is that I'm burning through lots of powder, primers and bullets. No earth shattering revelations yet.

[RydForLyf]

No rolls of TP were rendered useless by performing this testing. I can confirm the perforated product works just as well as non-perforated. :-)

[MostlyLeverGuns]

Waksupi's empty case makes the most sense, maybe anneal before shooting. All the fussing at measurements is theory until bullets go down range. Do some research, see what sizes most commercial casters provide and start shooting. Pushing a lead slug though the bore might show some tight or loose spots but so will a tight patch on a cleaning jag. I reload and cast to shoot MORE BETTER. The definition of BETTER varies by individual. I guess some folks lack the opportunity to shoot so fussing at their rifles and loading cartridges take over for actual shooting. Got a 30 cal, start with .310 and .311, .309 might work. What will chamber? What neck tension works(neck expander diameter). I run cartridges through the action, so seating depth is limited to magazine/action length and what will eject without hanging up/jamming the action.

[Wm Cook]

Toilet paper, sand, swimming pool….wow that’s quite an environment to deal with. Quick and dirty (and only marginally valuable) is a fishing barrel weight. I got a starting point for sizing on a .308 barrel yesterday in less than a minute. Lubed and tapped in and measured .3074, chose to size to .309. Pound cast takes longer but it gives you a lot more and better information. My wife does stain glass and I’m stealing some of that soft “lead” edge stuff she uses and I want to try that on my next pound cast. Bill.

[KCSO]

A bucket of water works well also put a lid on it from cardboard.