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dagnnorb
07-26-2021, 11:37 AM
I was loading some 32 SW for a Stevens Pocket Rifle for my father over the weekend.

I ran into a small issue, the OAL is listed as .920" for 32 SW, everywhere that I looked online and in my books, but the Stevens would not chamber the cartridge. I tried 3 different bullets, and none would chamber. On one of the bullets I could see a mark on the lead where it was hitting the a step in the chamber. Kind of hard to explain, but there is noticeable geometry change in the chamber.

I loaded more and kept lowering the bullet seating die until the cartridges would chamber. I ended up seating the bullet to .850" and it chambered fine and fired fine. No issues.

My question... does anyone know if 100 years ago, the 32 SW was shorter in OAL than listed today?

I was loading with Trail Boss so there is no issue with decreasing the powder capacity, I followed the instructions for determining safe loading. All 9 shells fired fine.

And the first round of shells i loaded, i shot out of my 327 Federal, and they all shot fine.

I am more curious about the shorter OAL i had to use. If it was a few thousands, i could understand, but .070" shorter seems extreme.

dagnnorb
07-26-2021, 01:21 PM
UPDATE... i did look up SAAMI specs and they have AOL listed as .880-.930"

popper
07-26-2021, 03:21 PM
Probably originally a RN bullet.

hoodat
07-26-2021, 03:28 PM
The biggest problem that I see here, is that you didn't show us a pic of the Stevens Pocket Rifle. I see by your post count that you are a new guy, so I'd like to welcome you heartily.

Now -- how about some pics of that rifle.:smile: jd

dagnnorb
07-26-2021, 04:50 PM
I loaded 100 gr RN, 100 gr WC, and 75 gr TC all to .920" and none would chamber. The only one that worked was the 75 gr TC seated to .850". The 100 grain bullets would not have allowed me to get any powder in by the time I seated them that deep. Even using 75 gr bullet, I was only using 0.6 grains of Trail boss when seated at .850", not that i was pushing it to the maximum loading.

I will post pictures when I get a chance. I returned it to my father, i will see if he an take some for me.

dagnnorb
07-26-2021, 04:52 PM
Oh, I forgot to ask in last posting... could it be the bullets used 100 years ago had a much more pronounced step from RN to the full bullet diameter? Some that would allow more of the bullet tip to rest in the bore, but the full bullet diameter be much closer to the case mouth... similar to SWC?

gwpercle
07-26-2021, 05:04 PM
!00 years ago nobody paid any attention to OAL ... in fact I have loading manuals dated 1965 , 1967 , and 1970 and they give NO OAL's . You seated the boolits to the crimp groove or untill they would chamber in you firearm . In fact I'm looking at the 1976 edition of the Speer Manual Number 9
under 32 S&W Long (no data is even given for short) the information listed :
Gun : S&W model 31
Barrel : 4"
Twist : 1 -18 3/4
Case : R-P
Primer : CCI 500

.312" Dia.
95 gr. Cast RN

There is a dimensioned drawing of the case .

But there is no OAL or COAL dimensions given ... and this is a 1976 book .
I am not sure when OAL's and COAL's began being published in the manuals but I had been reloading about 10 years and just kept on doing it the way I was taught . Plunk test and using your guns chamber as a gauge ... it had worked for ten years ...And I don't fix things if they aren't broken.
Gary

dagnnorb
07-27-2021, 01:13 PM
I also may try a different bullet. I had 75 gr TC bullet on hand for my 32 ACP. I think if I tried 78 gr RN with the step down in diameter above crimp groove, I may get it seated further out and get more powder capacity...

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uscra112
07-27-2021, 02:10 PM
I answered this in your other thread. The Stevens Pocket Rifles were not sold chambered for the S&W round, only the Colt .32 Long round. Original .32 bullet was a heeled type round nose, Ideal 299153. The bullet and case were the same diameter, like a .22 LR is to this day. If there is a step in your chamber, your gun has been rechambered, perhaps badly. All bets are off. A chamber cast is definitely in order.

Powder capacity is irrelevant. You are not (I certainly hope) going to load hot for this little old gun.

OAL is also irrelevant. But the ogive on that .32ACP bullet is definitely too fat. The one on the right should do better.

dagnnorb
07-28-2021, 08:15 AM
Finally got photos from my father of gun. And I agree USCRA112... its the ogive and bullet shape that is giving me issue.

286769
286770
286771
286772

dagnnorb
07-30-2021, 03:15 PM
Update: i got chance to try chambering a 32 SW factory load measuring .920 COAL and it chambered fine. 100% it was bullet geometry/ogive location that caused chambering issues. I have new bullets order that should work fine.

Bent Ramrod
07-30-2021, 03:59 PM
The bullets on the short factory .32, .38 and .44 S&W (Russian) cartridges had pronounced noses considerably smaller in diameter than the grooved bullet shanks that fit in the case mouth. Made the loaded rounds look like lipstick 💄. The ogives most typically seen nowadays extend smoothly to the shanks, making them fatter ahead of the case mouth.

The standard .32 S&W boolit of the old days looks like the Ideal 31355 more than it does the 313249.

Some shade-tree gunsmith with a homemade or adapted reamer or a boring tool would have run it in until a factory round or two would chamber and calll it good.

You might be able to rent a .32 caliber throating reamer from one of the rental places to smooth the transition from shell mouth to bore. It would likely only take a couple turns by hand, and then the more rounded boolits could be used. Or you might be able to clean it up to .32 S&W Long, a much superior cartridge, if the Pocket Rifle lockup is tight.

bedbugbilly
07-30-2021, 06:55 PM
I'll just throw this out there - are you sure your firearm is chambered in 32 S & W Short - or is it possible it is chambered in 32 Colt short?

I had a R & R Police Special that was chambered in 32 Colt Short = I had a partial b0x of cartridges and wanted some additional - ordered a box from the LGS and when I went to pick them up - they were 32 S & W Short. I politely told them that they would not work - he told me they would. I told him they would not, send 'em back and get me 32 Colt Short as I asked for. When he called me again, that they were in, I stopped and they had once again, sent 32 S & W Shorts. Long story short, they sent 32 S & W 32 Shorts, even after I took the pistol in and SHOWED the guy that 32 S & W Shorts were too long - I even took in the original box of cartridges. Both were round nose loads, but the 32 S & W Short is longer than the Colt 32 - the 32 S & W would fit the chambers, but the lead slug extended beyond the throats and thus the cylinder would not rotate. I finally gave up and eventually sold the handgun to a guy that collected H & Rs.

That was eons ago before I started re-loading. Today, I would have come up with something that would work.

dagnnorb
08-05-2021, 03:02 PM
A 32 SW should NOT chamber in a 32 Colt Short. The diameter of the sell of the 32 SW is .015" larger at base and .024" at mouth than 32 Colt Short. The 32 SW has a nice fit without being tight.

mac60
08-06-2021, 03:08 PM
I realize I'm joining this a little late, but I have a very old factory round that measures .933". Just thought I'd throw it out there.

Chev. William
08-06-2021, 06:00 PM
A 32 SW should NOT chamber in a 32 Colt Short. The diameter of the sell of the 32 SW is .015" larger at base and .024" at mouth than 32 Colt Short. The 32 SW has a nice fit without being tight.

I agree with this statement that .32 S&W should not enter a .#@ COLT chamber!
The Colt, and .32 S&W Rimfire, share the same case diameter
pf .318" or less ehile .32 S&W case diameter is .338"/
if a Factory .32 S&W carteidge, or a .32 Colt New Police cartridge will enter or chamber, then the Chamber is NOT Safe for .32 COLT cartridges! I expect Colt cartridges will bulg or split/separate ir discharged in an oversize diameter chamber.

chev. William