Reduced loads in your Big Game rifles for small game.

[greywuuf]

Almost all of the "old school" writers talk about it, and some of the manuals show it, but do any of you do it? Curious as I have a new to me rolling block carbine in 7x57 that I am working up some caribou loads for later this year. I am looking for a reason to carry it around before season, thinking maybe a slow cast slug might not be too bad for Ptarmigan head shots ...or possibly a bunny.

[richhodg66]

Killed a deer with cast in a 7x57 and shot a TON of the 135 grain soup can bullet from Midsouth in practice with ten grains of 700X, but never used it on small game.

I like to squirrel hunt with a down loaded .22 Hornet or .25-20 and cast, but those aren't big game rifles. Did a little with a .30-30 which downloads easier than most big game cartridges.
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[John McCorkle]

There are lots of cat sneeze or mouse fart loads you can look up, a pinch of tite group or bullseye under a dab of lead...if nothing else its fun.

Little 314-90swc for 30 cal plinking and small game (rabbit)

Something similar in your 7mm would be fun

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[oldblinddog]

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?17574-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article&p=196751&viewfull=1#post196751

See item number 1. Bullseye is the powder of choice. It will work in your 7x57 too. What you are looking for is accuracy, so be prepared to work up or down.

[ABJ]

I use a plain base 30-155 flat on top of 5.6 grains of 700X. I think it runs around 1000 fps. On my 30-30 I use the highest sight setting and it is dead on at 50 yds. FYI the lowest sight setting is on for my deer loads. I have used light for caliber but harder to regulate the sights with my heavier loads. Most any fast shotgun/pistol powder will work.
I have played around with small game loads in all my big guns and 30-30, 35 Remington and 357 mag are the calibers I have had the quickest success with. I have done it with 44 spl and mag and 45 Colt, but a lot of wasted lead for a squirrel. I never could find an easy repeatable scope setting for my 30-06. If you had a scope with the long range hash marks it might be easier.
I agree with John McCorkle, lots of recipes on this board and 7mm should be just the ticket.
Tony

[dverna]

To answer your specific question....no I do not download my .308 hunting rifles. I see no point in it and most of the reasons folks use for doing it are questionable.

I really chuckle at the one most used..."to get used to using the rifle". I suppose if someone only had a couple of rifles they used a handful of times a year that might make sense. For someone who shoots a number of guns regularly it is silly.

If you do not have a .22 for shooting rabbits, nothing wrong with using a cast rife bullet, but to me it is more work, and costs more than a .22. If I make a bad hit on a "trophy" rabbit and lose it, it is not the end of the world. I will not go home and ponder what could have happened if I had hit it with a 125 gr cast at 1200 fps.

Now, if I wanted .22 Mag performance I would download the .223 but I have no need for something like that.

IMO the only two centerfire rifle calibers 98% of folks need is a .223 and something like a .270, .280, .308 or .30/06. Nothing wrong with the hundreds of other choices...but nothing earth shattering about them either. Wanting is not the same as needing.

Of course, if too many people thought that way, the gun rags and most gun businesses would collapse...LOL. And this site would get boring....

BTW your 7mm RB sounds like a neat gun. It was on my "want" list for a long time. Good luck on your caribou hunt!!

[Larry Gibson]

In my M95 Chilean 7x57 I use the Lyman 287448. I usually cast it pretty soft with 20-1 alloy. Weight runs I TL the as cast bullets in LLA with a light coat and let thoroughly dry. I then GC it with older Lyman slip on GCs which are just push on and held on by the LLA. Since the GC is not seated lower than the case neck this poses no problem.

I use fire formed cases with the flash holes drilled out with a #28 drill. The cases are NS'ed with a Lee Collet sizer to give .002 neck tension. A lee case mouth expander is used. The soft bullets are seated then w/o any deformation.

As mentioned, Bullseye is the "go to" powder for such loads. I suggest a start load of 3.2 gr and work up until velocity is a sub-sonic 1050 - 1100 fps. Excellent accuracy will be found in that range.

I have a Redfield receiver sight om the M95 and from my 200 yard zero with the 140 gr jacketed bullet hunting load I just go up 4 moa for a 50 yard zero with the cat's sneeze load. It hit's about 1/2" right and I could also make a windage adjustment but i usually don't as out to 50 - 75 yards it's close enough for grouse and snowshoe hares many of which have fallen and filled the pot to my hunting rifles (6.5 up through 45 calibers) with such loads. Body shots on the grouse damage little meat and I use head shots on the hares unless I HP the bullet with the Forster HP tool.

The same bullet and loading technique has proven very usable in the 280 Rem and 7mm Rem Mag. Should do as well in other 7mms also. The heavier 135 - 160 gr cast bullets should do as well as the 287448 can be hard to come by.

[greywuuf]

Not saying I dont have a ton of weapons better suited to the task of small game. My main goal is I have found a particular old gun that just "does it" for me ...and to actually only be able to take it on one hunt a year is not enough. I want to carry this one around and it would be nice if there was at least "some" point to it ...however artificial it might be.

[charlie b]

Here is a bunch of data to go through.

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I download my .308 with Blue Dot, Titegroup or 700X. The Blue Dot has done the best with 165gn bullets.

If I wanted a field gun I'd go with one of the smaller bullets or even round ball. It is a ton of fun. I actually start to laugh when I hit a soda can at 200yd. FWIW, I usually use bullets that failed my final QC checks for the rifle. Yes, I could get a mold for my .223 and shoot light loads in it. I don't want to mess with those tiny bullets so the .308 gets used instead. And, no, I don't own a .22 rimfire.

I think you have a decent idea. Get more use from the rifle, get more comfortable carrying it, get better at shooting it.

[shtur]

I found it more practical to carry a .22 handgun when I am hunting with my 30-06.
I have several cases of reduced 30-06 loads from the Oct 1995 American Rifleman article by C.E. Harris, using 2400 powder and surplus 150 gr M2 bullets. That load is for fun with my 1936 Winchester Model 70 rifle at 100 yards - and its very accurate.

[Doughty]

greywuuf,
I have been doing that very thing for about 50 years. Every hunting rifle I have has a "grouse" load for it. I have killed a lot of small game with these loads. I can't remember the last time I took a .22 rifle hunting. I almost always carry a handgun while hunting, and occasionally use it for small game. However, the down loaded rifles have much better field accuracy than the handguns. And, more and more, it is just fun some times to plink with them. Just fun.

[greywuuf]

Some of you are missing the point, I am not looking for a way to take small game when I am hu ting big game .....I am looking for an excuse to carry my big game rifle outside of big game season.

[toallmy]

My for fun project is a 7x57 small ring that I put a midway special barrel on . I have bin playing around with a 132 gr Thor , and the 135 lee like Richhodge66 uses . I haven't really been able to get it to shoot as good as I would like out to a hundred yards with really light charges yet , but it's a lot of fun working on it .
Give it a shot .

[richhodg66]

Some of you are missing the point, I am not looking for a way to take small game when I am hu ting big game .....I am looking for an excuse to carry my big game rifle outside of big game season.

Not missing the point, I wouldn't bring light loads for a rifle I was deer hunting with. The light loads are for separate hunting trips.

If you can head shoot squirrels with your big game rifle, then big game is a no-brainer. I do think your bullet selection is best with a .30, not sure what light weight 7mms with a flat nose are out there, but lots of them like that in .30.

[greywuuf]

Not missing the point, I wouldn't bring light loads for a rifle I was deer hunting with. The light loads are for separate hunting trips.


I was not directing that towards your reply. Just some of answer seem to say that a .22 either rifle or pistol is a better option. Frankly it is, but option is the word. Alaska is kinda weird for as much game as we have hunting opportunities it's are relatively scarce. Moose bear and Caribou. Though I have carried a 7mm for moose, it is not my go to so that leaves bears and caribou. I no longer hunt bears. Leaves me one trip a year.... and I really dig this little carbine and I want to pack it around, but it ain't like it is bear defense so the only shooting opportunities I would have would be basicly Ptarmigan (or grouse) or bunnies (and those not so much in the summer as tuleremia is a thing here ) I just really hate crowded ranges and I want to get some time with this thing. I appreciate the input I have been given and I have a couple bullet molds in mind (most heavier than "optimal" but one is a nice FP) and will be seeing what I can do. Was just curious ...as like I said it seems that "back in the day" it was a pretty popular notion and I was wondering if anyone still did it ....or if it was just stories of poor kids growing up with only one rifle and not enough money for ammo.

[charlie b]

I agree with you. Let us know how it works out.

And, yes, 'in the old days' people used what they had to get the job done. Factories used to make light loads for rifles to allow varmint hunting with a larger caliber rifle.

[Texas by God]

Guilty. Most of my rifles have a practice/ plinking/ small game load to go with them. This is 38-55, the round ball loads use fireformed 30-30 brass. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210723/20b96f04d057dedbf5276b919c921258.jpg

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[sharps4590]

I have reduced loads for several of my rifles, most using Unique. I have not had a real desire to use any of them for small game, squirrels and the like. I've thought about it but there's a half dozen small game cartridge, centerfire rifles that always call my name first. I'm still ga-ga using my Jeffrey Rook rifle...lol!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I mostly shoot mild loads all year long in my 308's and 300 Savage's wearing heavy 4.5-14 scopes, then about the middle of August I change to 1.75-6 or 2.5-8 Leupold's, sight in for hunting season's and practice more with lower powered rifles. The 358's and 45-70 pretty much stay regulated for hunting with full power loads.

[toallmy]

Any idea what size boolits you might need ?

[black mamba]

My parents' house had a long, unobstructed stretch in the basement, and I set up a bullet trap at one end. I used to make gallery loads for my No. 1 .375 H&H to practice offhand shooting down there. WLR primer and 6 gr. of Red Dot, then I thumb seated a .375 round ball. I didn't need any neck tension, so I had a tool made to hand decap the brass without using the press.

[15meter]

Mouse fart loads are too much fun not to do.

Reduced cost, reduced recoil, REDUCED WEAR.

I have loaded reduced loads in 60+ calibers from 22 Hornet to 470 N.E.

Most of the loads have been in either vintage military rifles or very high quality English hunting rifles.

Beating up these fine old rifles is silly. Beating up my and my buddies shoulder is silly. Beating up my wallet is silly.

Buddy and I will take out a half a dozen + rifles with light plinking loads and go through several hundred rounds just ringing dingers.

It's a blast, minimal cost, minimal wear on the gun, minimal wear on our bodies.

And we are better shooters, building muscle memory is a big part of off-hand accuracy.

Know a guy who absolutely insisted on full house loads. 338 Win Mag kind of loads. Now has a detached retina that limits him to 30 carbine loads.

I shoot a reasonable number of true big game cartridges, closer to 2 dozen if I counted them. If I had shot full house loads for 15% of the rounds I shoot, the flinch would be so bad I probably couldn't pick up a rifle.

470 N.E. factory loads is good for 4 rounds in a day. Can't stand any more fun. My cast loads is more like 40 rounds and limiting factor is barrel heating. And 4 rounds will set you back $40-80.

40 rounds light cast loads, just a little cheaper. About $11 using the cost basis of the components I currently have on the shelf.

It's your gun have fun, shoot what you want. More shooting is always better.

[richhodg66]

A bit more than a gallery load, but ten grains of 700X (did it with then grains of Green Dot til I used that up) and that soup can 7mm bullet is a great practice round. Dirt cheap and plenty good enough accuracy for practice.

About three years ago, an impulse buy of a small ring Mauser sporter from a pawn shop was made. I quickly fell in love with that little rifle, got that soup can bullet and cast up 60 pounds of them. I shot that rifle almost every day most of that first year with that load, once zeroed, I never used a bench. Targets were 6" black paper plates at 100 yards from modified sitting positions mostly like I'd use from a blind or tree stand. Didn't take long before I could hit that 6" circle 100% of the time and 95% of the time off hand. A switch to my hunting load simply required 14 clicks up on the old Weaver K4 and nothing else changed.

Anybody who tells you there's no value in these reduced loads is an idiot.

[chutesnreloads]

Have an old 30-06 inherited from dad. With full house loads I wouldn't really call it a bruiser but it ain't very fun to shoot more than a few rounds either. Some time ago I got a Lee 170 gr. FP mold designed for the 30-30 and tried these boolits with "THE LOAD" of 13 grains Red Dot. Wow,..
it's as accurate as the full house loads at reasonable distances and what a JOY to shoot. I don't really hunt with it per se but do carry it as a walk around rifle and often as not sits very close by in camp for varmints and such. And of course it gets shot just for fun a lot. Bet I've not fired more than 50 rounds of .22LR in the last 3 years

[greywuuf]

Any idea what size boolits you might need ?

Talking to me in particular? ...then no ... rifle won't arrive for a couple days yet. So I'd ont know optimal diameter or throat or bore dimensions yet.

[JSnover]

I've done it with an O/U 9.3x74r; 158 gr LSWC over Unique. Made it a LOT easier to practice mounting and firing, as I don't care for dry-fire or snap-caps. The purpose was just to get competent with the rifle.

[Grayone]

At one time long ago If you didn't have a gallery or 'practice' round for your rifle that was reduced from full power it was considered incomplete. You can download a 'cat sneeze load' with your heavy bullets with quick burning powder like Bullseye or 700X and much has been posted on doing so or you can use a lighter bullet and adjust your sights. I like a scope with Mill Dots for same usage. Using these loads will mean 'much' more usage of your firearm which will mean more familiarly with it and lead to you being a much better shot. Once you are able to hit small game or small targets with your firearm deer are really hard to miss without a dose of 'buck fever'.

[15meter]

And practice with a particular rifle IS important.

I was shooting my 30-40 Krag yesterday, because I shoot more Mauser style actions, when it came time to reload, first instinct was to load from the top. On a hunt that probably wouldn't be a good thing.

In your case, fumbling to reload with a single shot rifle with a caribou in front of you would make for a bad day.

I was also shooting a Savage 99, an open sighted Ruger in 416 Rigby, a Whitworth Mauser action in 375 H&H, and a true Rigby in 300 H&H. Plus a Winchester Model 67 that I was shooting 22 shorts out of just for the grins of it.

The only ones that load the same were the two ouch and ouch's. The Ruger is finicky to load the magazine because of the size of the cartridges.

Hope your having fun with the new rifle, I've got a RB in 43 Spanish, it's a hoot to shoot.

And it loads a little differently than anything thing else I shoot[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[barrabruce]

Do a chamber cast and a couple of inches of rifling.
That will be you best bet to see what you actually have to see what bullet will fit.
After that the rest will probably be a lot easier.

This is my 30-30 wallet group I shot the other day in gusty raining conditions.
It is not a benchrest rifle either.
It’s my new shoot-zen load.
287578
I don’t usually shoot nearly as well but I can live with that.
At 50 yards maybe on a good day but not at 100 yards.
I find it fun and think I could probably hit a rabbit or something with it at reasonable distance.
I sort of Zen out and load one case at a time.
Crazy I know but I find it a relaxing day out at the range plinking or banging away a target or distant gong
Sometimes I might even clean my one case as well at the end of the day.
Still have to cast your bullets before hand thou.
If you use a powder thrower you can fine tune your load at the bench.
Saves all that extra mucking around with labels and separating cases etc.
Just load as you go and have fun.
Once you have it sorted then you can go into production but if you change one variable it can change everything else.
Like the lead hardness or primers.
Seating and such.