My new Car Gun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Since things are heating up here in CA I decided I needed a shotgun in my car. I found a Western Field (wards)550 for $300 and have modded it to my personal specs. A few things left to do to it but it is pretty much complete except for the barrel mods I want to do.

Since the gun is a Mossberg 500 with a different roll stamp on the receiver, I am calling it the "Monkeyberg." All the Magpul Furniture up grades fit perfectly. It also got the Magpul adapter for larger aftermarket Recoil Pads like this Limbsaver. So it got Magpul Furniture, a 3" Pic Rail for a light on the bottom of the fore end, a High Ridge Safety, and an 18.5" bbl.

It also got a Complete Action Job consisting of deburring all internal parts, including the Op Rods, Bolt and Bolt Latch and modding some of the small parts so they ran smooth. The Lifter had to be tweaked so Shells would go in and not catch on the back point and unload without getting hung up on the Front Edge of the part. See pic.

This is the third gun I've done this process to and I already know it will run just fine. The gun runs super smooth and will get better after about 4-500 rounds thru it.

Randy

[Winger Ed.]

Cool.

I always liked having a pistol grip, 18" open cylinder, and full length magazine tube on ones like that to keep in the truck.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Ed: The Magpul Stock has a nearly vertical pistol grip which along with the rest of the buttstock lends itself to better target acquisition and faster follow up shots and better accuracy than a dedicated Pistol Grip.. I can get 3 targets in 2.1 seconds every time with these pump guns. I consider these guns to be .73 caliber rifles and can perform just like a Rifle out to 100+ yards in guns like this. Big difference is that we are launching 4-500 gr slugs and Buckshot Payloads.

This gun will also get Rifle Sights on it as soon as I decide how I want to do it.

Randy

[725]

Sure looks like you can repel boarders with that. :)

[45workhorse]

Sure looks like you can repel boarders with that. :)

Bayonet lug?:kidding:

[DougGuy]

Boy somebody's gonna have serious bragging rights if they break in and get that!

[bimus]

Times have changed we used to always keep a hand gun in the car now its hand guns and short rifle and a short shotgun .

[BigAlofPa.]

Things are getting worse here. I don't keep a gun in my vehicles. But i did change up my carry from pocket .To a small holster OWB for my Taurus spectrum. Much quicker draw. Im going to get a vehicle holster too for another gun. Not sure on the gun yet. Maybe one of my 1911's. Trying to figure where to put a lock box too. My new car has no room under the seats. It has auto tensioners for the seat belts.

[Hogtamer]

Oh how I was mocked a couple of years ago for saying my carry gun was a 12 ga! My how times have changed. It’s a beauty too! New extractor, ejector and left side rail…..Steal this one and I’m out a hundred bucks but runs slick as snot. Found in a barn and was given to me because it wouldn’t pump!

[Cap'n Morgan]

This gun will also get Rifle Sights on it as soon as I decide how I want to do it.

Not much to decide, really: Holosight! Leupold, Docter or similar low-rider. Not the clumsy EOTech monstrosities.

[W.R.Buchanan]

After doing 6 Shotgun classes at Front Sight I have gotten the hang of running a Pump Gun. I can get 3 targets in 2.1 seconds every time. Can't seem to get the 4th one by 2.7 seconds ! usually ends up about 3.0 on that one. I can get them all everytime with my A5 and that's why I got it.

I am looking at taking the 28" vent rib barrel that came with the gun and cutting it to 18+" or just in front of the closest rib standoff.

Then a Green Fiber Optic Front Sight and some kind of a notch in the back for a rear sight on top of the rib..

In the barrel I'm looking at having the Forcing Cone extended and the Muzzle threaded for Choke Tubes. I want to run an IC Choke Tube. This should make this gun pattern Buckshot nicely and shoot Lee slugs well.

The Load I'm using for my Lee Slugs right now works in the A5 with the Buck Special Barrel which is essentially a long forcing cone with standard bore and IC choke built in. But they don't shoot well in the Vang Comped Barrels due to the back boring. The slugs are .015-.020 smaller than the bore and that don't work.

Those barrels both shoot buckshot into 7" at 25 yards and I'm sure after I play with the Lee Slugs a little more I can make them shoot well. I just didn't want many different loads for different guns. I kind of like having everything knocked down to what is essential and works and the rest can just go away.

Anyway that's what is on the menu for this one.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

After doing 6 Shotgun classes at Front Sight I have gotten the hang of running a Pump Gun. I can get 3 targets in 2.1 seconds every time. Can't seem to get the 4th one by 2.7 seconds ! usually ends up about 3.0 on that one. I can get them all everytime with my A5 and that's why I got it.

I am looking at taking the 28" vent rib barrel that came with the gun and cutting it to 18+" or just in front of the closest rib standoff.

Then a Green Fiber Optic Front Sight and some kind of a notch in the back for a rear sight on top of the rib..

In the barrel I'm looking at having the Forcing Cone extended and the Muzzle threaded for Choke Tubes. I want to run an IC Choke Tube. This should make this gun pattern Buckshot nicely and shoot Lee slugs well.

The Load I'm using for my Lee Slugs right now works in the A5 with the Buck Special Barrel which is essentially a long forcing cone with standard bore and IC choke built in. But they don't shoot well in the Vang Comped Barrels due to the back boring. The slugs are .015-.020 smaller than the bore and that don't work.

Those barrels both shoot buckshot into 7" at 25 yards and I'm sure after I play with the Lee Slugs a little more I can make them shoot well. I just didn't want many different loads for different guns. I kind of like having everything knocked down to what is essential and works and the rest can just go away.

Anyway that's what is on the menu for this one.

Randy

Being as you are a machinist, maybe you could try jug choking a barrel yourself. The idea is the same as constricting chokes, except you are relieving an area just shy of the muzzle so the shot expands, then contracts down again choking it. You would need to remove .010" for an improved cylinder choke. This is mostly a muzzleloader thing, but I see no reason at all you couldn't do it to a shotgun barrel such as this. The main benefit for a muzzleloader is you can have any choke constriction you want, and it is still as easy to load as a cylinder bore. A secondary benefit is that they shoot a round ball pretty much as well as a straight cylinder bore. I'm sure there are detailed measurements out there, but a very rough guestimate from the couple jug choked guns I have, they have a relieved section about 2" long, leaving maybe 1/2" or so as a straight parallel (original bore diameter) right at the muzzle. Both sides of the relief have to be tapered to allow the shot to flow smoothly. I've even heard of people modifying a brake hone, and using that.

If you were going to lop off that much barrel anyway, you have plenty to practice with.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was talking to Cody at Vang Comp yesterday and he was talking about doing something like you suggest, Didn't call it "Jug Choking" but I see what you are saying. I had no idea this concept existed. However since I already know it would be problematic to bore a hole starting 2" behind the muzzle and then going back another 2" I see boring bar chatter big time! There would be no way to remove it other than honing the hell out of it in which case I could control what is going on very well. I can get my barrel done with the choke tube Mod and Lengthening the Forcing Cone for around a $100.

Also FY all of us ,,, Hans Vang moved Vang Comp to Las Vegas a few months ago, and they are up and running. Lots bigger gun market in Vegas than Chino Valley AZ, (about the same temps!) So it should be a good thing, and I can go visit any time I go to Vegas. I like this outfit alot and everything they have done for me so far has worked as advertised!

Randy

[Traffer]

Boy somebody's gonna have serious bragging rights if they break in and get that!

Ahhhhahahahahaha....Good one.

[megasupermagnum]

I was talking to Cody at Vang Comp yesterday and he was talking about doing something like you suggest, Didn't call it "Jug Choking" but I see what you are saying. I had no idea this concept existed. However since I already know it would be problematic to bore a hole starting 2" behind the muzzle and then going back another 2" I see boring bar chatter big time! There would be no way to remove it other than honing the hell out of it in which case I could control what is going on very well. I can get my barrel done with the choke tube Mod and Lengthening the Forcing Cone for around a $100.

Also FY all of us ,,, Hans Vang moved Vang Comp to Las Vegas a few months ago, and they are up and running. Lots bigger gun market in Vegas than Chino Valley AZ, (about the same temps!) So it should be a good thing, and I can go visit any time I go to Vegas. I like this outfit alot and everything they have done for me so far has worked as advertised!

Randy

Possibly a typo, but to clarify, you would be boring starting only 1/2" from the muzzle, and going back. To be honest, I don't know a good way to do it, as I've not done it myself. I figured I'd throw it out there incase you had an idea. I believe the common redneck way is a brake hone. The guys who do jug chokes for a living I'm fairly sure use some kind of expanding reamer.

You know me, I do everything I can to avoid having thread in chokes. I can't find anyone who will install a Polychoke anymore, even when I bring them all the parts. I'm not 100% sure how it's supposed to be done, else I'd do it myself. It appears there is some kind of collar you solder on, and the outside is threaded. The poly choke is then threaded onto that collar. I could be wrong. The only reason I bring this up is that I threaded my 590 with the intention of buying a thread in PolyChoke II, basically a choke tube with a Polychoke built onto it. It's a great device, however, I was talked into having my barrel threaded for Truchoke. Ever since that day I've been asking around, and checking Ebay very often, and have yet to have a Truchoke Polychoke II show up. I've got an IC choke tube in the gun now, but I had to use a dab of blue Loctite to keep it from backing out, same as every other threaded gun I ever owned. I kick myself all the time, why I didn't have it threaded for Remchoke. If you have it threaded, do a normal thread like Remchoke or Winchoke.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Randy.

Any reduction of the muzzle diameter will act as a choke. Milling a jug choke (or threading a barrel inside or out) on a 5-axis CNC mill would not be a problem for an experienced machinist, but not many gunsmiths have acces to 5-axis. (five axis makes it easy to line up the bore, and has more room for long vertical parts)

I once read an article in some gun rag, where the author penned down the muzzle rim slightly and used a round file to open it back up to the desired size.
If I recall correctly, the muzzle developed a small crack after his first attempt. He tried again, this time annealing the muzzle, and it worked great.

If you drop by Denmark one of these days, I can jug-choke your barrel in about an hours time...;)

[georgerkahn]

I have admiration for you as well as all others living in ANY state but New York! In New York State (NYS) one may NOT have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motorized vehicle (including tractors, atv, utv, motorcycle, etc.) under ANY circumstance. Further, if one simply has ammo "accessible" to the unloaded/empty firearm in or on said vehicle, then it is presumed/treated by law as if it IS a loaded firearm! (Firearms, unloaded, need be in one part of vehicle (e.g., passenger compartment) with ammunition in another (e.g., the trunk)). For those sans separate compartment vehicles (e.g., pickup truck or van) ammunition must be in a LOCKED box/case.
Interestingly, a 26-yr-old male with no priors and his lady friend were recently arrested as (headed to range) they were stopped in a standard (blow horn; check brake lights; legal registration, etc.) traffic stop -- with BOTH cited as an UNLOADED shotgun was on automobile's back seat with an unopened box of shotgun shells on seat adjacent to it. Fellow had no idea he was breaking any law, and -- in NYS ALL occupants are equally charged with vehicle/gun violations -- his lady-friend was also arrested!
The ONLY permissible firearm in/on any vehicle in NYS is a registered handgun belonging to driver or vehicle occupant which must be concealed.
"MUST BE NICE!!!" to reside in states where it is not redowndable to both have such a great mod as you have with your Monky Wards scattergun ;) and be able to have it in one's vehicle!
My "weapon" when I needed drive through high-crime regions was a (thankfully never needed!) new can of Black Flag Wasp and Hornet Spray. I reckoned if I could get some spray in their eyes....
geo

[dverna]

In the communist state of MI, I cannot carry a loaded gun in a vehicle unless it is a concealed pistol.

It is really disappointing as I would like to have something in the SxS when we are cruising the back roads and logging trails in case we have an issue with two legged problems, a bear, coyotes or wandering dogs. A pistol is fine for me but I worry when my fiancé when she the grandkids for a ride.

I would also like to have an old .30/30 (I picked up cheap) stashed in the truck at all times. It would make a perfect truck gun.

Randy, just wondering why you did not consider a ghost sight? I like simple for SD stuff and have been thinking of adding them to our shotguns. Like you, I am a big fan of the Mossberg 500's for that use.

You did a nice job on yours!

[megasupermagnum]

I have admiration for you as well as all others living in ANY state but New York! In New York State (NYS) one may NOT have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motorized vehicle (including tractors, atv, utv, motorcycle, etc.) under ANY circumstance. Further, if one simply has ammo "accessible" to the unloaded/empty firearm in or on said vehicle, then it is presumed/treated by law as if it IS a loaded firearm! (Firearms, unloaded, need be in one part of vehicle (e.g., passenger compartment) with ammunition in another (e.g., the trunk)). For those sans separate compartment vehicles (e.g., pickup truck or van) ammunition must be in a LOCKED box/case.
Interestingly, a 26-yr-old male with no priors and his lady friend were recently arrested as (headed to range) they were stopped in a standard (blow horn; check brake lights; legal registration, etc.) traffic stop -- with BOTH cited as an UNLOADED shotgun was on automobile's back seat with an unopened box of shotgun shells on seat adjacent to it. Fellow had no idea he was breaking any law, and -- in NYS ALL occupants are equally charged with vehicle/gun violations -- his lady-friend was also arrested!
The ONLY permissible firearm in/on any vehicle in NYS is a registered handgun belonging to driver or vehicle occupant which must be concealed.
"MUST BE NICE!!!" to reside in states where it is not redowndable to both have such a great mod as you have with your Monky Wards scattergun ;) and be able to have it in one's vehicle!
My "weapon" when I needed drive through high-crime regions was a (thankfully never needed!) new can of Black Flag Wasp and Hornet Spray. I reckoned if I could get some spray in their eyes....
geo

It sure is nice, that's why I moved to one. A lot of states are like NY, although not quite as picky on the enforcement. I really doubt Randy is going to be driving around loaded with that. It is flat out illegal in CA to have a loaded firearm in a car, the one exception being a concealed handgun. If your shirt blows up when a cop comes by, it's a ticket. Maybe he is planning to keep a couple speedloaders nearby?

[Outpost75]

George, since COVID I've noticed lots of NY plates appearing among my neighbors who apparently moved full-time into their weekend cabins and cottages, doing the remote access thing. Several have since re-registered their vehicles and changed their legal residence to West Virginia so that they could legally buy guns and carry them anywhere except the courthouse, airport, a school or the post office, without a permit. Several I have met and talked to say they have taken the sacred oath to be Mountaineer football fans for life, having found voice coaches to lose the Yankee nasal whine and even got new wardrobes at Tractor Supply and have sworn never return to the big city.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Guys just for the record,,, I will only be driving around with this gun,,, "going to, or coming from the range." No matter when that is.

Also for the record most all of the local LEO's know my Jeep now, and know me. Luckily most of our Sheriffs Deputies are gun guys and we see them at the range.

And Capt: I'll be dropping by next week around Tuesday or Wednesday. :kidding:

Another way to go for a Self Defense Weapon that nobody could do anything about is a "Super Soaker" filled with Hot Sauce ! You can buy gallon cans of serious stuff at Sam's Club for <$10. Got this idea out of one of my Survival Magazines!

Colorful Side Note: We have a Super Soaker and I actually shot the Lady Mayor of Santa Barbara in the ass with at less than 5 feet during the Summer Solstice Parade around the year 1995. It only had water in it that time, but she had white pants on which immediately went see thru when wet, and she had to retreat to her seat on the Float for the rest of the parade, instead of dancing around on the street like a friggin' 75 year old idiot who was sticking her butt in my face!. (Super Soakers were were permanently banned at the next City Council Meeting!).

Side Side Note: I have other stories about the use of Super Soakers at that parade which make this one look tame! There were things in that parade that really pushed the boundaries of common decency!
And I was vigilant, and I could go on!

I haven't actually loaded it with Mega Tabasco Sauce yet but the concept is certainly sound. A face full of that stuff would surely end your assault. I doubt there is any way that could be considered an Illegal Response to an aggressive act. Really would have liked to deploy it at some of those riots we saw last summer in Portland and Seattle.

Randy.

[gunther]

Outpost: Thankfully you have chimed in. I remember one of your early articles for the Rifleman. In the process of modifying a Savage Camper's Companion, you described the method used to attain a jug choke. Please help these guys out.

[fastdadio]

In the communist state of MI, I cannot carry a loaded gun in a vehicle unless it is a concealed pistol.

It is really disappointing as I would like to have something in the SxS when we are cruising the back roads and logging trails in case we have an issue with two legged problems, a bear, coyotes or wandering dogs. A pistol is fine for me but I worry when my fiancé when she the grandkids for a ride.

I would also like to have an old .30/30 (I picked up cheap) stashed in the truck at all times. It would make a perfect truck gun.

Randy, just wondering why you did not consider a ghost sight? I like simple for SD stuff and have been thinking of adding them to our shotguns. Like you, I am a big fan of the Mossberg 500's for that use.

You did a nice job on yours!

I live in Mi. also. If you really want a legal loaded shotgun in the cabin of your car/truck, there are options.
https://americanguncraft.com/product/desperado-8-inch-barrel-20-gauge-double-barrel-shotgun-pistol/
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?426180-Desperado-11-quot-double-barrel-12-GA-pistol
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?427256-Recommendations-for-modern-inline-smoothbore-percusion-deringer
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/harper-s-ferry-conversion-pistol
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8497/category_id/321/product_name/PH0440+Pedersoli+Kentucky+Percussion+Pistol
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8901/category_id/321/product_name/PH0924+PEDERSOLI+HOWDAH+HUNTER+PISTOL+.58+X+.58
I played with black powder pistols quite a bit some years ago. They're no joke. I started with a CVA Kentucky .50cal. pistol kit. After shooting it for a couple years, I bored it out to .54 smooth and took rabbits and a couple partridge with it. It worked so well, I decided to upgrade to a Harpers Ferry. I had years of fun with it, and then regrettably sold it. Wish I had it back. I'm currently taking a hard look at that Desperado in 20ga.
Any of these pistols are legal pistols for concealed carry in Mi. A stout load of BB's at close range out of a .54 will make any sized bad guy change his plans. Plus you get the added benefit of the smoke screen and confusion to get to your 1911.
I just checked the Dixie site. Harpers Ferry is in stock for $675.00, Tempting.....

[Finster101]

George, since COVID I've noticed lots of NY plates appearing among my neighbors who apparently moved full-time into their weekend cabins and cottages, doing the remote access thing. Several have since re-registered their vehicles and changed their legal residence to West Virginia so that they could legally buy guns and carry them anywhere except the courthouse, airport, a school or the post office, without a permit. Several I have met and talked to say they have taken the sacred oath to be Mountaineer football fans for life, having found voice coaches to lose the Yankee nasal whine and even got new wardrobes at Tractor Supply and have sworn never return to the big city.

Now if you you could only get them to vote republican.

[Eddie Southgate]

I was talking to Cody at Vang Comp yesterday and he was talking about doing something like you suggest, Didn't call it "Jug Choking" but I see what you are saying. I had no idea this concept existed. However since I already know it would be problematic to bore a hole starting 2" behind the muzzle and then going back another 2" I see boring bar chatter big time! There would be no way to remove it other than honing the hell out of it in which case I could control what is going on very well. I can get my barrel done with the choke tube Mod and Lengthening the Forcing Cone for around a $100.

Also FY all of us ,,, Hans Vang moved Vang Comp to Las Vegas a few months ago, and they are up and running. Lots bigger gun market in Vegas than Chino Valley AZ, (about the same temps!) So it should be a good thing, and I can go visit any time I go to Vegas. I like this outfit alot and everything they have done for me so far has worked as advertised!

Randy

Randy ,
They used to call it a recessed choke when I was a kid . My dad buggered up the first 2" of barrel on a 30" full choke 870 back in the early 60's and decided to make a 26" barrel out of it and had my pap hone a recessed choke(Jug) in it for him . It was banned from competing at the Turkey shoot at Sewart Air Force Base in Smyrna Tennessee . The only time they let him shoot it he won all the Turkeys and all but one ham . They said " You are welcome to shoot here anytime you want Ed , just leave that gun at home ." Still the tightest shooting shotgun I ever fired .

[samari46]

In Louisiana your vehicles are considered an extension of your home. So if it's legal in your home (no full autos) then it's legal in your vehicles. Course if you have a concealed carry permit you carry concealed. But if carrying concealed, you do have to tell the deputy or trooper you have a concealed handgun on your person and have a permit/license. Frank

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Barrel went to Vang Comp today to get threaded for Rem Chokes. It wouldn't fit thru the spindle of my lathe so I couldn't bore it and so the Threaded Choke became the next best answer.

It should be back by the end of the week, and I'll post pics of the completed project.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well the barrel is due back Tuesday. I got a Carlson IC Choke Tube, a Tube Wrench and a Rifled Choke Tube off Amazon today. Really interested on how well the gun will shoot slugs with the IC Choke Tube, or the Rifled Tube.

Hoping to get good tight patterns of 00 Buck as well.

Looking forward to patterning and sighting in the gun when Our Range opens back up after the 17th. Unless the Recall Election goes for Newsome, in which case he will shut the entire state down and we'll be locked in our houses til 2025.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

That's a rough deal. Is shooting not allowed on National Forest there, outside of hunting? I guess I don't know why I'm asking, it's CA.

[W.R.Buchanan]

That's a rough deal. Is shooting not allowed on National Forest there, outside of hunting? I guess I don't know why I'm asking, it's CA.

No, it's allowed, but all our local gun clubs are located in National Forests and they closed them supposedly due to the fires already going due to poor Forest Management. They simply don't have enough resources to fight any more fires. It is dry as punk here right now, and we got shorted on Rain this year big time so it remains to be seen how this plays out. If Newsome survives his recall election on the 14th he will shut this state down completely. Just watch and see..

I got my barrel back today, and it came out great. Put the sights on it and made a spacer to shim the barrel lug so there's no gap.

The Sights look OK but they sit a little high for my taste so I will probably do something different down the road. They are good enough for now.

I got a Modified Choke Tube in the deal, and I ordered a Carlson IC Choke Tube ($20)which should be here tomorrow. I also ordered a Carlson Rifled Choke Tube ($54) and one of their cool Crank Type Tube Wrenches ($20). I can use that for all my shotguns with interchangeable chokes.

Very interested in seeing if the Rifled Choke Tube has a decent affect on slug accuracy. If it does then this barrel set up will be the way to go for many others with M500's or Rem 870's.

Longbow: Does your Mossberg 500 have interchangeable Choke Tubes? If it does, $50 for a rifled choke tube would be much easier than trying to make one.

I'll know soon if they actually work and I have no reason to think they wouldn't as they are just an evolution of the Paradox Barrels of old.

Will keep everyone posted. Here's some pics of where I'm at right now. It does look cool with the Sights on the Vent Rib!

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK this device was kind of neat. It is a combo Pic Rail, and Forward Sling Attachment Point. This thing worked out well because this barrel had about a.055 gap between the barrel lug and the end of the magazine when everything was tight. Not OK.

Normally the GG&G part goes between the Barrel Lug and the Thumb Knob on Barrel Bolt. It has detent holes in the part that take over for the ones on the barrel lug. However after making a .060 shim to go in between the barrel lug and magazine end with the device in it's proper place I found I only had about 1 1/2 threads on teh bolt holding the whole thing together. That sucked big time and I could just see my barrel flying down range during a shoot.

So I got rid of the spacer I made and put the Device in the gap and everything worked out fine. It is not captured by the Thumb Knob like on my other gun but no problem. It also acted as the spacer I needed to fix the gap, so all is well.

This allows me to attach a sling to the gun in a proper position. Waiting on new sling material to come next week so I can make some more slings. (available at buchananprecisionmachine.com)

Randy

[Buck Shot]

Well the barrel is due back Tuesday. I got a Carlson IC Choke Tube, a Tube Wrench and a Rifled Choke Tube off Amazon today. Really interested on how well the gun will shoot slugs with the IC Choke Tube, or the Rifled Tube.


Anxious to hear your report.

I put a rifled choke tube (forget who made it) in my 12 ga A5 w/ 28" bbl and it shoots lights-out ... so well, in fact, that I considered hot-glue-gunning a peep sight onto the back of the receiver when deer hunting. Wouldn't hesitate to use it at 100 yds.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Got another piece of the puzzle today. The Carlson Rifled Choke Tube came in the mail.
I immediately installed it and it sticks out about 7/8" beyond the muzzle but has about 2" of Rifling. Can't wait to try it out at the range.

Hoping to duplicate the results of the Paradox barrels of old !

I am expecting big things from this gun. I went in a completely different direction on this barrel with Screw in Choke Tubes that can easily be changed out in seconds to get different results from slugs, buckshot and bird shot.

Instructions on the tube say it can be used with Slugs, Sabots, Buck Shot and Bird Shot. Steel Shot or otherwise. Anxious to see exactly what that means so I will be at the patterning board at the range for a while. I have lots of different ammo to try, and will report back results.

Randy

[Hickok]

I nicknamed my "car-gun" the "trunk monkey" because of this commercial;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkQk11hJVVk :bigsmyl2:

[W.R.Buchanan]

So here's a pic of the Rifled Choke Tube mounted on the gun. It is pretty unobtrusive and it sticks out about 7/8" beyond the muzzle. It was $54 off Amazon hope it's worth it.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

My slow twist choke tube has been "on hold" since the cutter jammed and pulled the choke tube out of position so out of time without me realizing it. Kinda mucked up the rifling I had cut. Since I was going for deep groove rifling I may be able to salvage the choke tube I started but... I bought a Carlson's rifled choke tube and silver solder on adapter to try out the modern rifled choke tube.

Some people say they work well and some say they don't.

Rifling is shallow and very fast for 12 ga. full bore slugs but I figured I should try before I spend any more time making my own rifled choke tube.

No, my Mossberg Slugster is cylinder bore all the way.

I don't have any shotguns threaded for choke tubes. Since threading runs about $185 I decided to buy a Brownells solder on adapter for about $20. The idea is to turn the muzzle down to suit adapter I.D. then silver solder the threaded adapter onto the barrel.

I decided to turn an adapter that fit the barrel O.D. and silver solder that and the choke adapter to the barrel. That way I can removed it all if it doesn't work.

With such shallow rifling and fast twist of 1:36" I have to think the best chance for success will be with full bore slug or round ball. I am thinking round ball in shotcup or wad slug won't get enough grip on that shallow rifling. Maybe if the slug/wad is a crush fit and has longish bearing surface.

You will beat me to it since you are all set to go. I have the barrel adapter rough turned but still have a ways to go then have to get that and the threaded adapter lined up to the bore for silver soldering.

I've had everything for about a year and got started but not yet finished.

I'm slow!

Too many interruptions and too many things on the go!

I'll be interested to see your results when you get to the range.

I suspect you'll get best results with your Slugs R Us clone or the Lyman sabot slug in a tight fitting wad and knurled driving bands.

I intend to use 0.735" RB's and my full bore slugs when I finally get that rifled choke tube installed.

Please keep us posted on your results!

Longbow

[Texas by God]

I love what you've done with the Monkeyberg[emoji16].
Things are about the same here as they've been. I'm getting by with a folding .410 right now but my 18" 12gauge 870 fits right in behind the seat-right beside the 19" Tikka 22-250.....

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[W.R.Buchanan]

So I got to shoot the gun last Thursday, had one big problem. it shoots way high. I think the barrel is bent up but it is a small mount so it's hard to tell just by looking at it. I tried many ways of inspecting it but nothing is definitive enough to make a move that might ruin the thing for good.

The reason I think the barrel is bent is because the Barrel Lug is .060 away from the front of the magazine when the Barrel Thumb Screw is tight. If I had to call it I'd say the barrel was previously bent at the Barrel Lug similar to what happens to Ithaca M37's frequently.

Open to suggestions as to how to bend it back, but I'm probably cogitating on it alot today while in the shop and dealing with this other problem.

We have some Large Varmint that has taken up residence in our front yard, so I've got to deal with that first. I think it might be a Badger which could be a problem. I don't know anything else in SoCal that burrows and makes holes that are 6-8" in Dia.?

[Hamish]

Surely you guys have ground hogs.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Nope no Ground Hogs in Southern California. Turned out to be a bunch of Ground Squirrels living in that hole. I got one shot off on one of the bigger ones at about 30 yards but missed him He ran back across the street! The others were all Chipmunk sized critters and pretty small targets. It must be a lean year because none of the Ground Squirrels I have seen have been more than about 8" long..

They migrated in from across the street. I think there was something bigger trying to dig them out of that hole as the hole was definitely bigger than Ground Squirrel sized holes in the yards across the street. I ended up redistributing the dirt over the top of the hole and surrounding area and hosing it down pretty well.

We'll see in the coming days if it gets opened back up.

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

Even with that tall front sight it shoots high? Can you try another choke tube to make sure that isn't it? I've got one barrel that I want to bend too. It shoots low, but not that much. Maybe 1 foot low at 40 yards, so little stock fit can over come it. I tried to bend it once by the redneck method of sticking it in a hitch receiver. I pulled on it pretty good, to where I was scared, and it didn't move it one bit. I've seen where people have built elaborate barrel bending jigs, and they all seem to end up with the same thing. A pipe bender, and the only way to do it is by feel and testing.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is something I'll have to creep up on. When I screw the choke tubes in they all have tight spots which leads me to believe that the threading may have gone in cockeyed.

I have to really look close at this problem.

I had one other problem with the slide release not popping down when the gun was in battery. that slide release is the only thing that holds the bolt in battery. As soon as the hammer falls it pushes the slide release down and the bolt is free to move back. This is why you pinch the op rods when firing off a bench. It holds the bolt in position until you move the slide back, otherwise the recoil does it for you and that can be unpleasant..

Well it turns out that that GG&G part was stopping the Fore Arm from going all the way forward and the bolt wasn't completely in battery and the slide stop wasn't behind the bolt holding it in battery.

So I took it off and ground about .050 off it and now everything is fine.

Things like this are why I have to go slow and really look at the problem. I don't want to do something stupid and ruin the barrel over a misdiagnosis .

Randy

[GoodOlBoy]

I have admiration for you as well as all others living in ANY state but New York! In New York State (NYS) one may NOT have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motorized vehicle (including tractors, atv, utv, motorcycle, etc.) under ANY circumstance. Further, if one simply has ammo "accessible" to the unloaded/empty firearm in or on said vehicle, then it is presumed/treated by law as if it IS a loaded firearm! (Firearms, unloaded, need be in one part of vehicle (e.g., passenger compartment) with ammunition in another (e.g., the trunk)). For those sans separate compartment vehicles (e.g., pickup truck or van) ammunition must be in a LOCKED box/case.

In Texas your automobile is an extension of your home (castle law) and you can have it loaded mounted on the dash with a mounting lug, belt fed, with laser targeting assist, spotlights (except in hunting areas), and a cup holder for that 64 ounce bladder buster from the Texaco. However. If you spray somebody with bug spray that is a chemical attack and you are going to jail for years. So just shoot 'em and be done with it.

Richard

[W.R.Buchanan]

Well after shooting it today I was 6" high at 25 yards with the rear sight all the way down. Shooting Balls and Lee Slugs as tests. It was grouping around 3" at 25 yards which I could work with but,,,,

With the same setting it was 3 feet high at 50 yards and 6 feet high at 100 yards !

Conclusion: The barrel is bent! So I've got to find another barrel.

Bummed! It looked so good.

Randy

[Hamish]

Randy, I’m surprised at you giving up already,,,,

https://youtu.be/hzLK8SwWW90

[longbow]

Surely you can straighten it?

Shouldn't take much to do it as long as there is no visible kink/wrinkle... a gentle bend should be easy to correct.

Here's a couple of posts about straightening barrels:

http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/shotgun-barrel-bending-change-point-impact.html

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=91514

A friend told me that his gunsmith grandfather used to straighten shotgun barrels by sighting down the bore to locate the direction of curve then smack the barrel on a block of wood in the "appropriate" spot with and "appropriate" amount of force to correct it.

I think I'd opt for the methods in those posts though.

You've got nothing to lose!

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Well after shooting it today I was 6" high at 25 yards with the rear sight all the way down. Shooting Balls and Lee Slugs as tests. It was grouping around 3" at 25 yards which I could work with but,,,,

With the same setting it was 3 feet high at 50 yards and 6 feet high at 100 yards !

Conclusion: The barrel is bent! So I've got to find another barrel.


Randy.

Something is wrong here! If the gun shoots 6" high at 25 yards, it should be 12" high at 50, not 3 feet! The difference should be linear over distance, not progressive.

You could try checking the inside of the bore with a simple "bowstring" tool, but my best guess is that your rear sight simply is too high or your front sight too low.
(from the look of the pictures, the rear sight actually seems to be quite high)

[Hamish]

Randy,

Have meant to ask for some time, in these combat shotgun classes, are you seeing standard LOP, or are youth length stocks showing up? I’m 6’3”, but actually prefer a shorter LOP for anything other than SC’s.

[centershot]

Randy,

Have meant to ask for some time, in these combat shotgun classes, are you seeing standard LOP, or are youth length stocks showing up? I’m 6’3”, but actually prefer a shorter LOP for anything other than SC’s.

^^^ Me too! I like a LOP at 13 to 13-1/4", depending on the gun. I read once that a shotgun used in the field should have a length of pull as short as possible providing you don't get smacked in the nose with your thumb when you pull the trigger. This has worked out well for me over the years but gets expensive to have stocks cut and pads installed.

[GoodOlBoy]

In all seriousness? Yank the front and rear sight OFF of the gun. Sight down the rib and re-shoot at the distances. I think the gents are correct and those sights are just not in proportion to that gun. I shudder looking at them anyway, thinking about everything they would hang up on, but that's just me and my preferences. Mechanically I would test it without the sights on it and go from there.

God Bless

Richard

[zarrinvz24]

George, since COVID I've noticed lots of NY plates appearing among my neighbors who apparently moved full-time into their weekend cabins and cottages, doing the remote access thing. Several have since re-registered their vehicles and changed their legal residence to West Virginia so that they could legally buy guns and carry them anywhere except the courthouse, airport, a school or the post office, without a permit. Several I have met and talked to say they have taken the sacred oath to be Mountaineer football fans for life, having found voice coaches to lose the Yankee nasal whine and even got new wardrobes at Tractor Supply and have sworn never return to the big city.

We have been having a lot of that as well down here in South Carolina. Some assimilate and accept our way of life in the South, however there are many more that don't. They move in and immediately try to do things like raise taxes and complain about the 2A friendly atmosphere. I like to take mental note of the folks that have a car with NY plates at a house for awhile and use the County Accessor's anonymous report hotline :-)

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK in case you hadn't noticed I was banned for two weeks for using an acronym with an unpopular meaning. (Language) I was completely in the wrong so nothing on the site or No1. I did my time and now moving on.

However during that time I was able to construct a Barrel Bending Jig that is almost done. needs paint and some small refinements.

Right before I got banned I was looking at some pics posted by Longbow and had seen a Jig shown for about 15 seconds before I was cut off. However that was more than enough time to get the gist of the fixture :idea: and I was able to construct my own version with materials at hand in my shop.:mrgreen: I was a complete blank before seeing that picture. :veryconfu

It allows predictable changes to the barrel instead of jsut sticking teh end between two tree limbs a Reefing on it.

All that is left is making some barrel supports and a pusher for the screw that won't mar the barrel.

Then yesterday an old collogue of mine who still works for the same outfit we worked at, called me looking for someone to make a few parts for them. We got to taking about bent barrels and since he was a big time trap shooter he had encountered the problem many times.

He told me the way to confirm that the barrel is bent is by Taking a Empty Shotshell and push the primer out. Then put it in the chamber and sight thru the muzzle back. The Ring you see in the barrel will be perfectly concentric if the barrel is strait. If it is bent,,, one side of the ring will be thicker than the other.

Low and behold when looking thru it the very first time the ring was thicker on the bottom side of the barrel which confirmed that the gun will shoot high. Not much mind you, but enough to warrant a Tweak. I might add that this was not a case of a small hardly noticeable amount that you had to be seasoned expert to see. It was obvious!

What caused this? well the Vent Rib is not silver soldered onto the barrel. It is "spot welded" on and with every weld the barrel got more upward bend induced into it.. Those who understand welding know that when a weld cools, it shrinks. Such is the case with the Dozen or so standoffs for the rib. They caused the barrel to have a gentle upward rise to it. Not a big problem for a Bird Hunting Gun but not gonna work for a Slug Gun.

There is one place that shrunk more than others and it was the primary factor and will be where the pusher is positioned when tweaking the barrel.

The Dial Indicator allows you to push a specific amount and then compensate for spring back which will be happing.

So currently that's my story.

Randy

[longbow]

Looking good Randy! I figured you could fix that gun and I bet you get some PM's from others wanting barrels tweaked now!

Longbow

[centershot]

Welcome back Randy! I was told once that a barrel could be checked for straightness by sighting through the bore at a straight vertical line. If the line appeared straight in the bore then the barrel was straight. If the line appeared to have a "step" in it, the the barrel was bent. I remember seeing photos of the 'smiths in the barrel shop at Ithaca Gun Co. peering through barrels that were clamped into large overhead barrel straightening vises doing this very operation.

290593

[megasupermagnum]

Your vent rib is welded on? That doesn't sound good, I doubt Mossberg made them that way. Well, you can fix that bend now. From what I've seen, Mossberg always made ribs that were separate from the standoff's. They seem to have a pin or two on each end that you can push out, and then you can slide the rib right off those standoff's. It might be helpful to have the rib out of the way for bending.

P.S. When you were away, I finally got a wild hair, and bent the barrel on my Winchester 1897 because of this thread. I stuck it in the fork of a tree, and give it a precision 1, 2, oof. After a couple of tries, it shoots exactly to the bead. Mine was only off by about a foot at 40 yards, but if I can do it, you can easily.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Randy.

Now that you've done all the hard work with your bending jig, I hate to tell you that you probably had one in your shop already.

Clamp the chamber end in the chuck on a fairly sturdy lathe and support the muzzle with a tailstock center. Then use the cross slide to push/bend the barrel. No need for a dial indicator as you already have a scale (or DRO) on the cross slide.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy.

Now that you've done all the hard work with your bending jig, I hate to tell you that you probably had one in your shop already.

Clamp the chamber end in the chuck on a fairly sturdy lathe and support the muzzle with a tailstock center. Then use the cross slide to push/bend the barrel. No need for a dial indicator as you already have a scale (or DRO) on the cross slide.

My Lathe is a Hardinge Chucker the barrel is too big to go over the Turret and it has no Tailstock. If I had an Engine Lathe I could have done that, but I'd never thought of it until you mentioned it, so the jig would already exist. The jig has some other benefits as I can place the barrel Standoff Blocks anywhere and the Pusher anywhere as well just by positioning them all in different places. IE: it should work for any length barrel.

I cogitated a lot on this problem but until I saw the pictures of the jig in Longbows post,,, I was totally clueless. Like I said, it took me 30 seconds to have the design beat after I saw the other one.

Sometimes we just need a little nudge to push us in the tight direction. I have never been a "New Idea" kind of designer. But I can take your idea and make it alot better. My Hand Press is a perfect example of that, a completely re engineered version of an existing design with all of the previous shortcomings removed..

Randy

[megasupermagnum]

Here's a treat for those of you looking for the somewhat rare 18 1/2" slugster barrel. There is one on Gunbroker, item #912042122. It has gone with 0 bids for two cycles now, it might be worth shooting the guy an offer. I've been thinking about it myself, but I have no honest use for the barrel. I already have the 24" slugster, and I've got plenty of 18 1/2" and 20" barrels already.

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK: after much cogitation and sleepless night I have finally made some progress on the barrel bending jig. It is done, however it will require special barrel support blocks for each barrel.

I made my first bend today on the Monkeyberg barrel.

Some background: First after talking to those that know how to do this, I found that a Shotshell with the primer removed and placed into the chamber will reveal a Ring of Light in the barrel. If the barrel is strait that ring will be the smae thickness all the way around. If the barrel is bent one side of the ring will be thicker than the others. The thick side is opposite of the bend in the barrel. This was obvious on my barrel.
An alternate method is to sight down the outside of the barrel against a Vertical Line like a door jam. There will be a line down the top edge of the barrel (looking down the side) and it will have a dog leg in it where the barrel is bent. For me this was much easier to see and the barrel had a distinct dog leg under one of the Rib standoffs.

After making a pusher that had a 7/16 radius on it that matched the barrel I set it up between a Vee Block under the breach end and a piece of Plywood that supported the rib under two standoffs on the muzzle end.

Then I started tweaking it. I first screwed down on the pusher and deflected the barrel about .050. After spring back, that yielded exactly .002 of bend! I took the barrel out of the jig and sighted down it and saw very little had changed. So back in and this time I went to .100 total and that yielded about .005 bend after spring back.

Once again I sighted down the barrel and saw it was going in the right direction.

So back in the jig and this time I went to .150,,, (see the picture!) I let it sit and soak like that for a few minutes and then backed off the pusher and found I had achieved .010 deflection after spring back. That is where I quit and the gun must be shot now to see if I need more tweaking to get it to shoot flat.

Please note that the Dog Leg in the barrel was directly under where the pusher is located.

You can see in the picture just what .150 grand of deflection looks like. And I must say, it looks pretty scary!

So that's where we are at right now, might get to shoot it tomorrow, and will report back.

The whole point of all this is to be able to "Predictably" bend a barrel and get a decent and repeatable result without messing it up. And the Jig works perfectly! :mrgreen:

More to come.

Randy

[longbow]

Looking good Randy! I knew you could outsmart a bent barrel! That straightening jig looks really good!

I still have my choke adapter to silver solder on one of my single shots so I can try the Carlson's rifled choke tube to see if I can get it to work. One of my concerns is lining it all up for silver soldering. I suspect it will be difficult to get it exact unless it is pretty much a light press fit. I'll try but I suspect I may be making a brother to your barrel straightening jig for fine tuning... if the slugs group that is.

Looking forward to your range report.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kent: And thanks for posting that link to the Barrel Bending Jig. that was the only nudge I needed to figure it out!


If that choke adapter has a counter bore more than @1.5 times deeper and a couple of thou bigger than the diameter of the barrel, it will align just fine. I would sweat it on like you do with copper pipe fittings.(Silver bearing soft solder) It needs about .001 on a side for the solder to produce some capillary action.

JB weld would work as well, as long as you Sand Blast the area where the glue is so there is some surface profile for it to stick to. I've seen many sights that are glued to barrels using that stuff and it works pretty well..

Good luck.

Randy

[Baltimoreed]

My ‘car gun’ is my ccw. A long gun in a car or pu seems silly to me. You need room to run a long gun. To have it secured in a locked box in the trunk in case you have to abandon the vehicle, maybe.

[Markopolo]

i just wanna know, Which Car???? i am hoping you are gunna say your Jeep! it would look good with a custom latching bracket!!!

[longbow]

I hadn't thought of JB Weld. I wonder if that would be strong enough?

I doubt there will be a very strong impact and pull with such shallow rifling so maybe.

A friend of mine many years ago had a Polychoke soft soldered on a Winchester model 12. He had been shooting trap and had it wound down to full.

He took some 0.715" RB loads to the range after, forget to check the choke and shot his Polychoke downrange about 25 yards! Oops!

I don't remember if the ball was still in it but the choke was undamaged.

I don't want to launch my rifled choke tube and adapter down range!

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK: after shooting the gun last week at the range and putting more bend into the barrel on sight it still shoots high. I have got .030 total into it now (with .250 deflection before spring back.) and the witness line on the side of the barrel is strait. Pretty sure the barrel is strait now, however I am not convinced that the rib is not influencing it as the barrel heats up.

Also something is wonky with these sights. It is almost impossible to get them aligned with the Laser dot bore sighter at 25 or so yards. the sight picture is always high in relation to the bore. I have some other barrels to try this on so I can figure out if the sights are partly to blame.

Anyway the fight goes on. I've got a bid in on the barrel Mega found on gun broker which is a 18.5" Slugster with sights. I want it!!!

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

OK Finally got it to shoot right today. This barrel was still shooting high even after bending it .030 down last week.

It had a .060 gap between the Barrel Lug and the Mag Tube when cinched down.

In pictures you can see the GG&G Combo Sling Attach and Pic Rail which is supposed to be between the Thumb Screw and Barrel Lug However in order to get it to work with the gap I put it between the Barrel Lug and Mag Tube.

Today after doing a bunch of Cogitation and bore sighting etcetera I found that the part was made from .100 thick material, however the gap was only .060 so there was upward torque on the barrel with this thing installed. Hence even after bending the barrel down it still shot high.

I put a .7/16" SS Flat washer that is .055 in it's place and,,, Viola! It now shoots in the general vacinity of where it is aimed. Now I can make meaningful changes to the sights to get it closer. (Lee Slugs.)

I loaded up 10 lee slugs into AA hulls with 18 gr of Green Dot, a Blue wad with 1/8" card under the slug and fold crimp. I hit a Jack Rabbit sized steel target at @50 yards 3 times in a row offhand so apparently it is close enough for the 3 gun tomorrow.

So the "Monkeyberg" lives ! We'll see how it does tomorrow.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

It did just fine and I went 10 for 10 in the shotgun stage in 17 seconds, Then it also had 39 rounds of pistol attached to it which went on forever. The guy who sets up the stages obviously doesn't have many shotshells to shoot or he'd make the Shotgun Stage a little more intensive. The gun ran perfectly and it was a 6 in the gun to start, and then 4 port loads.

I actually started hitting the pistol shots better as I burned up over 100 rounds in the pistol stages, and was shooting my Ruger PC Carbine for the rifle stage.

It was all good fun.

Randy

[Tar Heel]

Boy somebody's gonna have serious bragging rights if they break in and get that!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

and.....

if you ever have to use that thang and they find this post....God hep ya.

[longbow]

Randy... you are having too much fun!

Also, good you got that barrel shooting more or less where you want. We'll be waiting on some targets with nice tight groups after you get sights adjusted!

Are you shooting Lee 7/8 oz. or 1 oz. slugs?

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

1 oz. Lee Slugs. Still need to shoot it on paper and get the sights dead on. We'll see how it does.

I've got a bunch of slugs loaded to try in it and I also need to try the Carlson's Rifled Choke Tube and I am really hoping it works. This gun is the gun that is easiest to change the barrel configuration in. (Threaded Chokes)

If I can get it to shoot regular Lee Slugs with the IC choke, and Full Bore Slugs with the Rifled Choke Tube it would be a real win, that could be duplicated by others.

Randy