Dying RCBS Chargemaster 1500

[maillemaker]

Hi all,

Sometime prior to November 2018 I purchased an RCBS Chargemaster 1500. I bought the trickler to go with it in November of 2018.

It has been a real workhorse, and I really liked it, and I have been using it to throw all my competition charges for N-SSA competition since then. I am using it for black powder (yes, I know they say not to - many BP shooters do so anyway).

A couple of months ago the beep started to act up. It would beep more like a "gurgle", as if the speaker had a bad connection. Then the beep stopped altogether. This did not bother me much as the scale continued to function.

Now the display has gone on the fritz. Every LCD segment is lit up all the time, so you cannot read the display.

I called RCBS, and they directed me to Lone Mountain Communications for repair. https://lonemountaincommunications.com/

I called them, and they wanted $155 or something to refurbish both the scale and the trickler, but wanted $175 to replace the scale with a new one!

I took my unit apart, blew off the electronics with compressed air, re-seated all the connections, and put it back together. Unit beeps again and seems to work again, for now anyway.

I'm a little annoyed that I spent $300 or so on a scale setup that is now dying. I know we live in the era of disposable things, and maybe 5 years is enough to expect out of a $150 scale, but to me things like this should last pretty much indefinitely. I still have my dad's Texas Instruments calculator from like 1970 and it still ticks along just fine. As I recall it cost a small fortune back in the day.

I've considered dumping another $175 on a new RCBS Chargemaster 1500 (Lone Mountain sells them on ebay), but then I'm buying old technology and it may well fail again just like this one did in another 5 years.

I see RCBS now sells a "lite" dispenser that seems to have the scale and trickler integrated as a single unit. It's about $300:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018264281

Frankford Arsenal has one for about $170.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019601974

Lyman and Hornady also make them.

I'm a little gunshy on RCBS now.

What do you all think or recommend?

Steve

[maillemaker]

I found this review of various tricklers:

https://www.gun-tests.com/accessories/best-reloading-scales-programmable-automatic-powder-dispensers-compete-5/

[nhyrum]

I quite despise rcbs, I've had multiple issues similar to you. But, for those digital scales, I'm convinced the rcbs one is the best, I just really don't like how you pretty much have to modify them right out of the box by going to McDonald's...

I've got a fair bit of experience with digital scales/balances. My grandpa runs a small analytical lab testing oil well runoff water. The issue with the scales like the rcbs is in how they work, they use strain gauges, which are physically prone to drift, and makers of them know this, so they're literally programmed to write off small changes as drift, so if you trickle too slow, the scale calls it drift. If you can get the trickle rate dialed in, they're plenty accurate and fast.

If you want a fast, automatic powder dispenser, I recommend one of two courses.
First, and I know these are not a feasible option for a lot of people because of the price, but get the autotrickler that's coupled with an analytical grade balance such as the a&d fx or the sartorius balances. They are well worth the money. I can throw 95.00 grains of rl33 faster than I can dump it in a case and seat a bullet. Exact, +.00, -.02 grains, just about every time, and I absolutely know it's nuts on. Worth the money, but I know a grand plus on a scale is tough for a lot of people to swallow.

If you still feel like you want the convenience of an automated dispenser, get another chargemaster.

If you don't want to go with another rcbs, the only other course I recommend is going back to the old school way, with a beam balance and hand trickling. I'm just really not a fan of strain gauge scales.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[dale2242]

I have used RCBS Chargemaster and Hornadys Auto Charge and I much prefer the Hornady.
I can program the Auto Charge to my liking.
Programing the Charge Master is a PITA in my opinion.

[ohen cepel]

Timely for me. I am thinking about a Lite but keep putting it off till I know I am going to be doing a lot of rifle loading.

I really like the concept but don't see them lasting and I am a luddite.

[Shawlerbrook]

My 1970’s Redding scale and RCBS trickled still work as good as the day they were new. I know the electronic stuff make reloading easier and faster, but I’ll stick with my primitive tools.

[zarrinvz24]

At the beginning of 2020 my Hornady Auto-Charge was damaged somehow. It remains unclear exactly what happened, but as best I can surmise something must’ve fallen into it. I decided that plastic is no longer for me, and subsequently bought a Redding 3BR and scale. I’ve since found it to be faster and more accurate than the Hornady ever was. My vote would be a good quality cast iron volumetric powder measure. Add the dram worx pyrodex powder hopper and it will last literally forever.

[JimB..]

I quite despise rcbs, I've had multiple issues similar to you. But, for those digital scales, I'm convinced the rcbs one is the best, I just really don't like how you pretty much have to modify them right out of the box by going to McDonald's...

I've got a fair bit of experience with digital scales/balances. My grandpa runs a small analytical lab testing oil well runoff water. The issue with the scales like the rcbs is in how they work, they use strain gauges, which are physically prone to drift, and makers of them know this, so they're literally programmed to write off small changes as drift, so if you trickle too slow, the scale calls it drift. If you can get the trickle rate dialed in, they're plenty accurate and fast.

If you want a fast, automatic powder dispenser, I recommend one of two courses.
First, and I know these are not a feasible option for a lot of people because of the price, but get the autotrickler that's coupled with an analytical grade balance such as the a&d fx or the sartorius balances. They are well worth the money. I can throw 95.00 grains of rl33 faster than I can dump it in a case and seat a bullet. Exact, +.00, -.02 grains, just about every time, and I absolutely know it's nuts on. Worth the money, but I know a grand plus on a scale is tough for a lot of people to swallow.

If you still feel like you want the convenience of an automated dispenser, get another chargemaster.

If you don't want to go with another rcbs, the only other course I recommend is going back to the old school way, with a beam balance and hand trickling. I'm just really not a fan of strain gauge scales.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
I use the RCBS, but that autotrickler is sharp! More precision than I need by a long shot, but still tempting.

[Conditor22]

Just got done talking with the RCBS rep, she said I need to wipe down my chargemaster regularly with antistatic cloths/drier sheets.

[nhyrum]

I use the RCBS, but that autotrickler is sharp! More precision than I need by a long shot, but still tempting.It really is. I lucked out and got a pretty screaming once in a lifetime deal. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have it

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[winelover]

Have the RCBS Chargemaster since they were first introduced.............could be twenty years, now. Use it almost exclusively. I have my own backyard range and shoot a lot. Never wiped it down with antistatic cloths/dryer sheets. Survived the move from Michigan to Arkansas.

This past Spring, I lost the display. Was thinking of replacing it with the Lite version. Then I figured it might be the electric adaptor/transformer. Friend has one, about the same age as mine, borrowed his transformer. Bingo, it was working again. Went on Amazon and found a replacement for about seven dollars. Been working ever since.

Winelover

[jmorris]

I'm a little annoyed that I spent $300 or so on a scale setup that is now dying. I know we live in the era of disposable things, and maybe 5 years is enough to expect out of a $150 scale, but to me things like this should last pretty much indefinitely. I still have my dad's Texas Instruments calculator from like 1970 and it still ticks along just fine.


The TI Datamath calculator that was only a 4 function calculator back then cost more than $100 (that’s $650 today https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1972?amount=100 ) but was built here and the one I have also still works. Now they are so cheap, even one that has memory function, square root, and is solar powered (the data math uses 6 nicads or has to be plugged in to the wall) and are often given away as gifts with company logos on them. No one would attempt to repair a $0.94 calculator. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pen-Gear-8-Digit-Handheld-Calculator-White-Office/975047330?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0

How about something with much less electronics that can deliver even more repeatability?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GYWgAdKzHs&t=35s

[jmorris]

While that does not eliminate electronics it does greatly reduce the number of things that can go wrong and make it a simple enough device where troubleshooting if a problem develops down the road, should be simple.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxPenA7c0hE&t=5s

[Doughty]

I had an RCBS combo unit. It went bad. RCBS nor PACT would fix it. I got the Franklin Arsenal unit. I have been very satisfied with it.

[1hole]

Last I heard, RCBS' famous "life-time" warranty for electric stuff was two years. Seems maybe they know what they're doing. ???

No one has a repair shop for cheep electronic stuff, when they get a warranty return they toss it and send a new one back.

[hporter]

I just got an email response back 5 minutes ago on my misbehaving RCBS Chargemaster 1500 from their tech support. A check list, and the contact info to Lone Mountain Communications for repairs.

The check sheet said to loosen the two screws on the right hand underside (one on the scale and one on the dispenser). I haven't tried that before, so I will give it a go.

Mine starts up, but when the initial startup countdown is done, the scale starts incrementally increasing the displayed weight unceasingly until you turn it off. Just keeps climbing up in weight with nothing on the load cell platen.

I have only used this unit a half dozen times, in the unusual event that I load on a single stage. Really chaps my behind that I spent the money I did on it to get just a few uses out of it. It has been stored in my air conditioned reloading room it's whole life.

My other point is to reread winelover's post above. My transformer was putting out 14 volts. So I used a known good 9volt 1amp transformer, but it did not correct my problem. The case on the original transformer actually came apart the last time I pulled it out of the outlet on my work bench...

I cannot justify spending good money after bad to have it repaired. If it had performed faithfully for many years, maybe it would be worth it. I guess the next step is to break it open and see if there is some powder jammed up anywhere. At this point, there is nothing to lose by doing so.

[maillemaker]

Where are you guys getting these balance beam + trickle setups? I've never heard of such a thing!

I ended up ordering a new RCBS Chargemaster Lite.

My 1500 started going on the fritz again. I decided rather than pay $175 for a new one of old technology that might die again I'll bite the bullet and buy the latest design.

When the new one comes in I am going to disassemble the old one and try re-flowing solder joints to see if it helps. I will also check the AC adapter output.

I'm a little annoyed by the Lone Mountain Communications people as they want $155 to repair both the scale+trickler (plus you have to pay shipping both ways). You would think that repairing the scale only would be much less. Basically if only your scale is broken LMC you have no repair option that isn't any cheaper than just buying a new scale from them.

[1hole]

Yup. Good electronics techs don't/won't work for free and a properly equipped repair/calibration shop itself isn't cheep. If a consumer market device craps out just toss it and buy new, you'll at least get a new warranty.

[jmorris]

Where are you guys getting these balance beam + trickle setups? I've never heard of such a thing!


I made mine with the parts shown in #13. One can get the photoelectric switch, gear motor, latching push button, 12v dc transformer and relay off eBay for <$40 shipped to your door.

The photoelectric switch that senses the beam movement is just under $8 shipped. https://www.ebay.com/p/1053390233

If you are a DIY guy you might have some of the other stuff already.

[dale2242]

BTW, Hornady replaced my Auto Charge, at no charge, when I had problems with it.

[hporter]

I am just posting this in case anyone was curious what the inside of their Chargemaster 1500 Scale looks like.

I opened mine up last night. I could adjust the load cell to a point where the scale was stable and did not automatically climb in value, but it would not calibrate nor respond to the test weight.

I looked up the manufacturer of the load cell. I contacted them in China last night and they responded over night. They do not have a distributor in the states, but I asked if I could purchase one from them and have it shipped to the US. They list the cost as $25, which would be worth it if it could fix my scale. Having just watched jmorris's youtube video on Chargemaster 1500 scale drift, I now understand why it was so difficult to get the scale to stabilize..

If I had a good RCBS balance scale, I would build a version of jmorris's trickler. No computer, no pc boards - just a push button switch, a relay and a photoelectric switch. The KISS approach is usually superior and more reliable in the long run.

286486286487286488286489

And here is the RCBS troubleshooting guide they sent me. Maybe it will be useful for someone having issues with their scale/dispenser.

286490

[maillemaker]

Well, I thought I had ordered a Chargemaster Lite last Tuesday. Went to check the status of my order on Cabela's.com today and discovered it had been cancelled. No call, no email. I called them, and they said, yup, it had been cancelled, and no, they did not reach out to me. Kind of bummed because I was hoping to have it by this weekend to do some loads.

They said not only that, but it's not actually in stock. I said told her the web site let's me order it without complaint.

I was also bummed because I had like $32 in Cabela's bucks to put towards it. Enough to pay the sales tax.

So I went over to Amazon and bought it for quite a bit more - like $330 shipped.

And then I found this place called Scheels:

https://www.scheels.com/p/rcbs-chargemaster-lite-scale/60454462108.html

Their price is $240 with free shipping! This is vastly cheaper than any other online source I have found, so I cancelled my Amazon order and ordered from Scheels. This is even cheaper than what I paid Cabela's even when using my Cabela's bucks!

Won't have it for another week but oh well.

Steve

[lightman]

I love my ChargeMaster! If it dies I will either get it repaired or replace it. A shooting buddy that was moving and without a reloading room came over to load some ammo and he liked my ChargeMaster better than his Lyman. I didn't think to ask him why.

I bought my ChargeMaster when they first came out.

[zarrinvz24]

BTW, Hornady replaced my Auto Charge, at no charge, when I had problems with it.

How did you get them to do that? I’ve sent numerous emails as well as trying to call and I either end up on endless hold or get no response.

[dverna]

I am just posting this in case anyone was curious what the inside of their Chargemaster 1500 Scale looks like.

I opened mine up last night. I could adjust the load cell to a point where the scale was stable and did not automatically climb in value, but it would not calibrate nor respond to the test weight.

I looked up the manufacturer of the load cell. I contacted them in China last night and they responded over night. They do not have a distributor in the states, but I asked if I could purchase one from them and have it shipped to the US. They list the cost as $25, which would be worth it if it could fix my scale. Having just watched jmorris's youtube video on Chargemaster 1500 scale drift, I now understand why it was so difficult to get the scale to stabilize..

If I had a good RCBS balance scale, I would build a version of jmorris's trickler. No computer, no pc boards - just a push button switch, a relay and a photoelectric switch. The KISS approach is usually superior and more reliable in the long run.

286486286487286488286489

And here is the RCBS troubleshooting guide they sent me. Maybe it will be useful for someone having issues with their scale/dispenser.

286490

Thanks for posting all that information. My Chargemaster has not failed me yet, but if it dies, and I cannot get it working, I will try the Morris Method.

[dale2242]

zarrinvz24, I called them and explained my problem to a tech.
He told me to send it in and they sent me a new one right away.

[hporter]

I have been in back and forth emailing with the OEM supplier of the load cell inside of the Chargemaster. I have established the current price to replace it is $30 USD. And they will also take Paypal as a payment method. They wanted to know if I had a DHL account to facilitate the shipping, but unfortunately I do not. I advised them the last time I bought something directly from China they used EMS to ship it.

Hopefully I can get this worked out. It would be nice to try and get my chargemaster working again for $30 and whatever the shipping comes to. Assuming it is only the load cell that is bad.

[jmorris]

Before you blow the $30 you might measure the one you have. The Wheatstone bridge on the loadcell can be checked unlike most of the other components.

https://www.omega.com/en-us/resources/load-cell-troubleshooting

If it’s Ok, no need to replace it. Have you messed with any of the parameters on your chargemaster? If you unintentionally altered one, while changing another, it’s possible that could be the source of your issue.

[hporter]

They came back last night in a reply that they would need $48 USD in shipping. I have never paid more than $10 in shipping from China for something that small, so that sounds strange. I am sure it's the difference between Fedex 1 day and normal USPS mail because in the past it takes a few weeks in transit to get to Texas.

Even if it was the load cell, I wouldn't spend almost $100 to fix it, when I've only gotten a handful of uses from the unit over the years for my original $300 spent. What a complete waste of money. I gather from this thread that many others have had great service from their Chargemasters, I wish I was one of them.

No, I didn't mess with the programming, nor did I ever store a load in it's memory. The only thing I did was disable the annoying load beeping. It has been stored in my reloading room on a shelf above my presses in my air conditioned house. I do 95-98% of my reloading on my Dillon presses, so I really don't have much of a need for an automated dispenser. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth of money spent for such a small return.

I will give it to my shooting buddy, in case his Chargemaster ever fails. At least he will have a spare dispenser.

[hporter]

Oh and thanks for the troubleshooting document. It as probably been 20 years since I messed with a load cell, it could be a fun exercise.

[maillemaker]

Yup. Good electronics techs don't/won't work for free and a properly equipped repair/calibration shop itself isn't cheep. If a consumer market device craps out just toss it and buy new, you'll at least get a new warranty.

Yes, of course I would not expect anyone to work for free.

But when they offer to repair both the scale and trickler for $155, then I think it's reasonable to expect that the cost of repairing only one of those things would cost less than $155. And since they sell the scale alone for $175, I think it's reasonable to expect the cost of repairing it to be less than the cost of replacing it. Their pricing model just doesn't make sense.

I even considered sending both the scale and trickler even though only the scale is broken but you are going to be spending $30 at least in shipping both ways so now you're up to $185 so you may as well just buy a new scale.

What I ought to do is find someone with a broken trickler and we'll send in our scale+trickler and split the repair cost. $80 for repair would be nice.

In the end, I went with a new RCBS Chargemaster Lite from Scheels. $90 cheaper than I was going to pay Cabela's for it. Super fast shipping. Ordered on 7/21/2021 got it on 7/25/2021.

Steve

[maillemaker]

I've been using the Lite now for a couple of charging sessions and it seems nice. I figure the scale/trickler integrated unit is probably cheaper than the two-piece old unit. The touch screen is nice. I never used any of the charge storage functionality of the old unit, so this works easy - type in the number of grains you want and then press GO.

[jmorris]

But when they offer to repair both the scale and trickler for $155, then I think it's reasonable to expect that the cost of repairing only one of those things would cost less than $155. And since they sell the scale alone for $175, I think it's reasonable to expect the cost of repairing it to be less than the cost of replacing it. Their pricing model just doesn't make sense.


Something with so many integrated circuits isn’t going to be gone through by a technician on a bench, charging by the hour as it would cost more than new retail price. They will open another box of them from China and send a new one to you instead, because it is much cheaper to replace vs diagnose and repair. Even if the correct component could be located, there is a good chance a human couldn’t successfully replace it anyway.

[maillemaker]

Something with so many integrated circuits isn’t going to be gone through by a technician on a bench, charging by the hour as it would cost more than new retail price. They will open another box of them from China and send a new one to you instead, because it is much cheaper to replace vs diagnose and repair. Even if the correct component could be located, there is a good chance a human couldn’t successfully replace it anyway.

Well, they claim to be an actual component-level repair shop:

"We offer COMPONENT LEVEL ELECTRONICS REPAIR. Other electronics repair shops will deem equipment unrepairable if the problem is not an easy fix. We don't let that stop us! If there is any way to save your equipment, Lone Mountain Communications will not only save it, but make it perform like new."

The emphasize "component level electronics repair".

Now it turns out that the scale is basically a single-board unit as far as electronics go. The only other component is the load cell, which can also be replaced. It may well be that they have replacement boards made and just swap out the board.

But regardless of how they fix it, it doesn't make sense that I could send in a broken scale and a broken trickler and get them both fixed for $155 but sending in only one or the other costs the same.

Steve

[jmorris]

But regardless of how they fix it, it doesn't make sense that I could send in a broken scale and a broken trickler and get them both fixed for $155 but sending in only one or the other costs the same.


Doesn’t make sense to me how you can have a flat rate for an unknown problem. Call a dealership and say “my car is broken, how much will it cost to fix it?” They won’t tell you, “we charge $xxx per car to get them running again.” They have no idea of the problem or extent of the damage.

My guess would remain, that the flat charge is the cost of a replacement vs a diagnosis and repair on the malfunctioning component(s).

[maillemaker]

Could be they are doing a complete replacement. But even so, it should be cheaper to replace just the scale than replace both the scale and trickler together.

Steve

[deces]

I am willing to bet that a cap is failing.

[oley55]

I still have my dad's Texas Instruments calculator from like 1970 and it still ticks along just fine. As I recall it cost a small fortune back in the day.

If my memory is correct, pretty sure I paid $65 for my non-scientific Texas Instruments Calculator in 1974. A pretty good chunk of money considering the $1.75-2.00 an hour part time wages of the day.

[ulav8r]

If my memory is correct, pretty sure I paid $65 for my non-scientific Texas Instruments Calculator in 1974. A pretty good chunk of money considering the $1.75-2.00 an hour part time wages of the day.
The first calculator I saw was a TI at $90 in the summer of 1968.

[jetinteriorguy]

I learned how to use a slide rule in sixth grade in 1965-66 and used it all the way through college. I had a rare circular slide rule that was extremely accurate and really was easy to do the guesstimates on due to the larger sizes of the graduations. I caught a lot of flack from fellow students for ‘cheating’ but I just told them all they had to do was learn how to use a slide rule too, I even offered to teach them and had no takers.

[nhyrum]

I use a circular slide rule(e6b) when everyone else I know uses an electric one. No batteries to die, and I even have a watch with a slide rule on the bezel and face. They're incredibly handy

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