Matching 9mm EDC Ammo for practice?

[mkj4him]

I use sig365 JHP self defense rounds in my P365 EDC gun. They are 115 Gr. Doing 1050 FPS from my gun. My goal is to load cast PC bullets that approximate these numbers so they have same POI. So far I’ve been powder coating an old supply or Oregon trail 9mm 120 grain TC bullets and I’m getting right at 900 FPS with 3.9 gr W231, no leading. These shoot great but my supply is almost gone. I went ahead and got the Lee 356-120-TC 6 gang mold which is basically the same bullet. I will be using ww’s and tin for casting. I’ll water quench and then PC the bullets with a final water quench from the oven, sizing to .356”. Is there a specific ratio of WW+tin that would allow me to cast these bullets lighter, so they approximate the 115 gr weight of my carry loads? I’m assuming if I do, and I work up to 1050 FPS, my practice loads should shoot to same POI as the carry loads. Does this sound right? Please share your vast knowledge. Thanks.

[ryanmattes]

For self defense, the most likely range is under 10 yards. To stop a human, you only need to be able to hit a 4" target. With that range and requirement, you're not going to notice the difference in weight or poi, as long as you have decent consistency.

I also use Sig ammo for EDC and practice with coated Lee 120gr TC. They work fine. I would worry more about getting consistent weight and consistent loads, so your groups stay small.

[mkj4him]

Sounds like your using same bullet as me. What powder and velocity do you practice with?

[Dusty Bannister]

Since powder coating is going to have less resistance as it travels down the barrel, bullets of similar weight might result in a lower hit on the target. A slightly heavier powder coated bullet might be closer to the POA. At 15 yards, it might only be theory and one gets lost in the weeds. Try it and see.

[ryanmattes]

Sounds like your using same bullet as me. What powder and velocity do you practice with?I have a load for both Titegroup and Unique, but I don't have my load book handy. I think Titegroup is ~3.5gr and Unique is ~4.5. Giver or take a few tenths either way on those to tune it. I got my load data from the Lyman 50th.

I think my cast and coated weight on those is around 125gr using SOWW and some added tin, with a BHN of about 10. I coated with HiTek Old Gold, 2 coats. And sized to .3570 for my Sig 365XL.

At 10 yards my groups are all under 4" freehand, even the loads that weren't good enough to reuse. The tighter ones were under 2" freehand, and that's good enough for self defense.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/df49ec5b5bb58f033739837034210a85.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/2ec8101e2ca17af2c52495ec4915677e.jpg

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[mkj4him]

Are those the golden bullets! Lol! What powder coat?

[mkj4him]

Of course I like my purple lilac.

286338

[ryanmattes]

Are those the golden bullets! Lol! What powder coat?That's HiTek coating. It's not a powder, it's a liquid, so it's just a 30 second shake and an <8 minute bake.

I never loaded 9mm, it was too cheap and plentiful to be worth the effort. Until 2020. When 9mm hit a dollar a round I decided to start casting and loading for it, so I made these gold because they were worth their weight in gold. 8-D

I have 6 different colors of Hi-Tek: copper red, candy-apple red, old gold, tru blue, kryptonite green, and black. (See below)

The copper red and candy apple red aren't that different, candy apple is just lighter.

And some of my colors are darker than they should be, because I overcooked them a bit.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/fc44440f52c80b6d2cf3336bd52c9d0a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/5aa099b308370e506e37c627142ec4f8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/e1dac2dd681ce6ad9ca6668c9e774bb6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/e93b86da4d3ea0819403a813baae6c49.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/56531143bfe361e83570cf3f2b36a6d7.jpg

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[mkj4him]

Those colors look nice. Does hi tech ad much thickness to the diameter?

[ryanmattes]

No, super thin. And you can get away with a single coat, but the colors look better with 2 coats. Some people do 3 coats to add some diameter to the bullet.

Edit to add:

I size after I coat, so any added size from the coating would be reduced by sizing anyway.

[gwpercle]

Since you are powder coating then sizing them ...you don't really need to do all the water quenching ... two water quenches and coated is a lot of extra work .
I cast my 9mm's out of 50-50 mix wheel weights and soft lead for a bhn of about 8 and size to .357"
air cooled , no water quenching .
Don't over think trying to match exact weight and velocity ... get close and practice . At short range self defense distance point of impact isn't going to change .
Practice , recovery time and accuracy and being level headed during a life or death situation is more important than matching POI at 7 yards .
Gary

[fredj338]

Dont over think the poi thing with slightly diff bullet wts. I also carry a 9mm. My practice ammo can be anything 125, 135, 147, all print close enough to poa/poi @ 20y to not even consider it an issue. I only shoot my own PC cast from range scrap. I use several powders to get me to those vel levels. I carry 214gr HST+P. Its just not a big deal to shoot something in the 900-1050fps range & just go practice.

[fredj338]

Since you are powder coating then sizing them ...you don't really need to do all the water quenching ... two water quenches and coated is a lot of extra work .
I cast my 9mm's out of 50-50 mix wheel weights and soft lead for a bhn of about 8 and size to .357"
air cooled , no water quenching .
Don't over think trying to match exact weight and velocity ... get close and practice . At short range self defense distance point of impact isn't going to change .
Practice , recovery time and accuracy and being level headed during a life or death situation is more important than matching POI at 7 yards .
Gary

Plus water quenching then baking undoes the quench imo. So I air cool, then water drop out of the PC oven, gives a 3-4bhn bump.

[ryanmattes]

Plus water quenching then baking undoes the quench imo. So I air cool, then water drop out of the PC oven, gives a 3-4bhn bump.I water quenched my 9mm, but that was more about speed than hardness. That alloy gave me 10 BHN air cooled, I didn't test these after water quenching, so they may be a few higher.

Air cooling I drop on a towel on the table, but I don't like to drop them in a pile, because they get dings in them, sometimes in the bands. So I'd have to stop and clear all the cooled ones now and then. With water cooled, I just fill a clean home depot bucket 2/3rds of the way up, and drop until my arms wear out. I did 30lbs of 9mm in an evening that way, just consistently feeding the pot and water dropping until I ran out of lead.

So I didn't care if the bake undid any extra hardness, I just wanted to get the volume. I let them sit overnight, spread out on a towel to dry, and baked them the next day. Sized them all the evening after. I guestimate it was around 1800 usable slugs over 3 evenings, and that was fast enough for me, and enough to keep me in practice ammo for a year.

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[mkj4him]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I have enough to work with at this point. I’m just going to cast and powder coat, loading chute. Ain’t sweat the point of impact issue anymore