Sulphuric acid

[Battis]

We need to dispose of some sulphuric acid (not at my house). Online, there are methods using baking soda, sugar, etc. I know, positively, that it's dangerous stuff to handle. Is this a DIY or should we call in the pros (if they exist). There's maybe three jars of the stuff.

[Bobbers]

Where I live once a year they have a collection of house hold chemicals. You also might check with you city if they take it. Since it is an acid neutralizing it with a base would take care of it. It is only dangerous if not handles correctly.

[Minerat]

I seem to recall from chem class (50 years in the past) that there is an order of mixing so if you do it be sure to read up on it. There are probably chemists on here that can enlighten you better the my old memories. Just be careful H2SO4 is strong stuff.

[725]

Call your local fire department. They usually have hazmat trained folks to help out. Not all FD's are up to speed, but somebody will be.

[rancher1913]

are you talking battery acid or full strength sulphuric acid. you will find its next to imposable to find a recycler, maybe a junk yard would be able to take it.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

My County has a Household hazardous waste facility. Residents can bring in stuff for free disposal. They also have a free "re-use" room, where you can get stuff that other people brought in, after it's been checked out by trained County staff.

If your county doesn't have such a program, and If this is good sulphuric acid, you might try a freebie ad in FB marketplace or Craigslist.

[Battis]

A family member passed, and in the garage we found the jars of the acid. Why he had it, no one knows, though there have been guesses. I'll call the local fire dept or board of health this week.

[hc18flyer]

We buy it to counteract alkalinity in our irrigation water at our commercial greenhouse. We use a 5000 to 1 ratio of water to sulfuric acid. At that rate, it is safer than Pepsi! When mixing, you add acid into the water, for a minimal reaction. I would question what else is in your acid? Hopefully you can find a program to turn it in? Tom

[jdfoxinc]

Do you know anybody making biodiesel? H2SO4 is used in some of the process.

[gbrown]

1. How much are you talking about?

[BJK]

What strength is it (if it has a label)? Is it battery acid or thick like oil?

Garden limestone neutralizes it and the products of the reaction are Calcium Sulfate, water, and CO2. Beyond that you're on your own. Making the call might be the best course of action.

[charlie3tuna]

I seem to recall from chem class (50 years in the past) that there is an order of mixing so if you do it be sure to read up on it. There are probably chemists on here that can enlighten you better the my old memories. Just be careful H2SO4 is strong stuff.

Mix it alphabetically: A(cid) into W(ater). It is an exothermic (heat producing) reaction. If you do it the other way, it will explode in your face. Wearing PPE (a face shield) is a good idea, but if you don't get in a hurry you will be OK.....charlie

[firefly1957]

Without knowing amount and strength and if you have a safe place to dilute it to it is hard to say . I have dumped have a bottle of strong sulfuric acid over limestone then washed the area with a hose when the bottle dropped and was damaged .

[Battis]

We're not sure what exactly it is, other than "acid". Family lore says he was making batteries, which is why it's thought to be sulphuric acid. We're waiting for the FD to call us back.

[GregLaROCHE]

First don’t get scared. Humans have been working with strong acids for hundreds of years, if not more. You just need to take some precautions with it. The cardinal rule is to add the acid to water and definitely not vis-à-vis. How much do you have? If it’s less than a gallon you can probably dispose of it yourself as long as you have a piece of land. If you live in a city it becomes more difficult. Lime is a great neutralizer of acids. Dig a hole in the ground where you can start adding a little of each at a time. A face shield is a good idea to be safe. Stay upwind from the fumes and don’t breathe them. When all is added together, stir a bit, wait an hour, cover it up and forget about it. Anything that hasn’t reacted, will with time in the soil.

I’m sure this is not per EPA guidelines, but do what you want.

[waksupi]

Check to see if you have someone in your area who makes batteries. They would most likely take it off your hands. I used sulfuric acid and muriactic acid in my shop for years. I always kept a large box of baking soda to dump on spills.

[Skipper]

Mix it alphabetically: A(cid) into W(ater). It is an exothermic (heat producing) reaction. If you do it the other way, it will explode in your face. Wearing PPE (a face shield) is a good idea, but if you don't get in a hurry you will be OK.....charlie

Or, remember AAA
Always
Add
Acid

[Texas by God]

I wonder if it would kill duckweed in a stock pond?
Things that make you go hmm.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[Big Tom]

It's one of the ingredients for nitroglycerin. If you also find potassium nitrate or nitric acid, be careful with the rest that you don't know what it is :-)


A family member passed, and in the garage we found the jars of the acid. Why he had it, no one knows, though there have been guesses. I'll call the local fire dept or board of health this week.

[Battis]

Well, things took a different turn. We went down to the "estate" after calling the local Fire Dept. They sent a Captain over, then another Captain. They examined the four glass jars and discovered they weren't filled with sulphuric acid as the family believed - they were actually car batteries from the early 1900s (teens to 20s). I don't have the info with me but apparently they're pretty collectable.
Well, I'll be...

Here's an example:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/113798945264

[gbrown]

Wow! From disaster to inheritance. Funny how things work out.

[bakerjw]

Got limestone nearby? Dump some of that into it until it stops fizzing.
H2SO4 isn't that toxic once neutralized.

[Battis]

Growing up, I'm sure they were told to stay away from those because there's acid in them. Over the years it became sulfuric acid. And to add to the confusion, I've been spelling "sulfuric" incorrectly - it's not sulphuric.
Well, I did come home with a two piece Craftsman tool chest, the kind on wheels, and a bench grinder.

[BJK]

That's the best solution!

[William Yanda]

A family member passed, and in the garage we found the jars of the acid. Why he had it, no one knows, though there have been guesses. I'll call the local fire dept or board of health this week.

When milk was tested for butterfat on the farm, sulfuric acid was a reagent. By the 70's, samples were sent to a central lab in Northeast states at least.

[MUSTANG]

I seem to recall from chem class (50 years in the past) that there is an order of mixing so if you do it be sure to read up on it. There are probably chemists on here that can enlighten you better the my old memories. Just be careful H2SO4 is strong stuff.


Going back to grade school in Texas (yes a few decades involved in that) - There was the equivalent of a Nursery Rhyme:


Do what you OTTER
Add Acid to WATER.

(Yeah we all wanted to be chemists in grade school - mixing stuff as a scientist (Chemist) looked cool with all that bubbling and color changes and of course - the BOOM.)

[SeabeeMan]

That's exactly how I learned it getting my Chem degree. Acid's dissociate in water, generating heat. If you pour a small amount of water into a quantity of acid, that process begins and there is very little water to absorb the heat. That water boils and we all know what boiling water under the surface of a dangerous liquid does...ACIDIC TINSEL FAIRY! Go the opposite way by adding acid into water, and you have a much greater mass of water to absorb that heat. You still have to be careful when concentrations and quantities are on the high end, but it will keep you safer.

My advise was going to be dilution and Sam's Club quantities of baking soda once we got a better handle on how much.


Going back to grade school in Texas (yes a few decades involved in that) - There was the equivalent of a Nursery Rhyme:


Do what you OTTER
Add Acid to WATER.

(Yeah we all wanted to be chemists in grade school - mixing stuff as a scientist (Chemist) looked cool with all that bubbling and color changes and of course - the BOOM.)

[Battis]

What the FD is concerned about is approx. 1 tablespoon of Mercury in a closed jar. They're working on removing it properly.

[MUSTANG]

What the FD is concerned about is approx. 1 tablespoon of Mercury in a closed jar. They're working on removing it properly.

We did that properly too in grade school. You poured the mercury out on the table and moved it around with a pencil or your finger. Broke it apart and herded all the small drops back together with that same pencil or finger. Course, the Grade school teacher had previously TRAINED the grade schoolers to not stick their fingers in their mouth after handling chemicals.


Me thinks that common sense and identifying control processes in proportion to the hazard has disappeared.

[Dieselhorses]

That's exactly how I learned it getting my Chem degree. Acid's dissociate in water, generating heat. If you pour a small amount of water into a quantity of acid, that process begins and there is very little water to absorb the heat. That water boils and we all know what boiling water under the surface of a dangerous liquid does...ACIDIC TINSEL FAIRY! Go the opposite way by adding acid into water, and you have a much greater mass of water to absorb that heat. You still have to be careful when concentrations and quantities are on the high end, but it will keep you safer.

My advise was going to be dilution and Sam's Club quantities of baking soda once we got a better handle on how much.

Isn't H2S04 close to muriatic and hydrochloric acid? I know the latter is what we all have in our stomachs to digest food.

[bakerjw]

Hydrochloric acid aka muriatic is HCl i.e. 1 hydrogen and 1 chlorine.
Hydrofluoric acid, HFl, while chemically similar to HCl will etch glass.

Sulfuric acid is H2SO4 i.e. 2 hydrogen, 1 sulfur and 4 oxygen.

[DougGuy]

Hydrochloric acid aka muriatic is HCl i.e. 1 hydrogen and 1 chlorine.
Hydrofluoric acid, HFl, while chemically similar to HCl will etch glass.

Sulfuric acid is H2SO4 i.e. 2 hydrogen, 1 sulfur and 4 oxygen.

I worked installing pipe in a plant that has a LOT of super dangerous chemicals, both gases and fluids. I was going up a ladder carrying a long stick of 2" stainless pipe to put in the pipe rack, and my knee hit a low point drain valve on a 6" PVC line going to the acid waste pumps and broke it off. A solid stream of mixed waste acid shot out about 30' and it got all over me waist down.

I took off toward the showers shedding my clothing as I went, got in the shower and got it mostly off and they brought in big tubes of ointment with calcium, you smear on the skin and it absorbs (bonds with) the fluoride in the HFL to prevent it bonding with the calcium in your blood. Nobody knew how much hydrofluoric was in the mix, but there was some nitric, some hydrochloric and some other mess in there.

Meanwhile the local fire marshall is on the scene with a couple of engines and of course they are going full bore to treat this "chemical exposure" by setting up a decon station outside. I was okay and called the new GF and told her I got into some stuff at work and would have to go to the hospital, I played it down but then the fire marshall comes up and loudly announces "Okay Mr. Phillips, the decontamination station is ready for you now" well that put an end to the calm on the phone, she flipped out and is on her way to the hosp warp speed, the ambulance is on it's way warp speed, get into the ER and they bang me with 2,000mg calcium and they start hooking up all these heart monitors and IVs and everything else.

I was okay, didn't get enough hydrofluoric to cause any serious damage, and GF said I was just glowing like a Christmas tree with all those young and ravishingly beautiful nurses all pining over me....

I learned that the heart is the biggest user of calcium in the body, not the bones, and that I could have been laying in the ER all connected to stuff and had my blood calcium level tanked they could not have saved me no matter what they did so.. Hydrofluoric is some BAD STUFF. Don't do what I did!

They deconned all my clothes, boots, belt, safety harness, even my welding machine all went in a blue barrel that they seal and I assume bury in a landfill somewhere. Bossman showed up at the hospital with a walmart bag of new jeans, tee shirt, belt, boots, etc. They were really good about it but it scared the **** out of all of the project management.

[downzero]

Is acid even hazardous? What pollutant is created if you just poured it onto the ground? Surely the ph of the groundwater isn't going to be affected by a gallon or two of acid.

[Butzbach]

I seem to recall from chem class (50 years in the past) that there is an order of mixing so if you do it be sure to read up on it. There are probably chemists on here that can enlighten you better the my old memories. Just be careful H2SO4 is strong stuff.

The pneumonic is “Always Add Acid to water.” The neutralization of an acid is highly exothermic with just water dilution. Trying to add an actual base would likely be, how shall I say, “exciting” unless you are into hot caustic showers.

[MaryB]

I worked installing pipe in a plant that has a LOT of super dangerous chemicals, both gases and fluids. I was going up a ladder carrying a long stick of 2" stainless pipe to put in the pipe rack, and my knee hit a low point drain valve on a 6" PVC line going to the acid waste pumps and broke it off. A solid stream of mixed waste acid shot out about 30' and it got all over me waist down.

I took off toward the showers shedding my clothing as I went, got in the shower and got it mostly off and they brought in big tubes of ointment with calcium, you smear on the skin and it absorbs (bonds with) the fluoride in the HFL to prevent it bonding with the calcium in your blood. Nobody knew how much hydrofluoric was in the mix, but there was some nitric, some hydrochloric and some other mess in there.

Meanwhile the local fire marshall is on the scene with a couple of engines and of course they are going full bore to treat this "chemical exposure" by setting up a decon station outside. I was okay and called the new GF and told her I got into some stuff at work and would have to go to the hospital, I played it down but then the fire marshall comes up and loudly announces "Okay Mr. Phillips, the decontamination station is ready for you now" well that put an end to the calm on the phone, she flipped out and is on her way to the hosp warp speed, the ambulance is on it's way warp speed, get into the ER and they bang me with 2,000mg calcium and they start hooking up all these heart monitors and IVs and everything else.

I was okay, didn't get enough hydrofluoric to cause any serious damage, and GF said I was just glowing like a Christmas tree with all those young and ravishingly beautiful nurses all pining over me....

I learned that the heart is the biggest user of calcium in the body, not the bones, and that I could have been laying in the ER all connected to stuff and had my blood calcium level tanked they could not have saved me no matter what they did so.. Hydrofluoric is some BAD STUFF. Don't do what I did!

They deconned all my clothes, boots, belt, safety harness, even my welding machine all went in a blue barrel that they seal and I assume bury in a landfill somewhere. Bossman showed up at the hospital with a walmart bag of new jeans, tee shirt, belt, boots, etc. They were really good about it but it scared the **** out of all of the project management.

Right after high school I worked at a feed testing lab for a summer, I moved the various chemicals around to the work stations. Sulfuric acid came in 55 gallon drums and was pumped into 5 gallon glass jars to move up to the lab. Caustic soda came the same but that we pumped up via an electric pump. Hydroflouric was kept in small plastic jars at the work stations and only 2 people in the lab were allowed to handle it. Me and the person using it for tests. That person dropped it on her counter an splashed it all over her front side... we stuffed her in the decon shower as we stripped her clothes off and waited for the life flight to land in the parking lot. They moved her immediately to the UofMN medical center. She survived with heart damage and was permanently disabled. It ate a crater in her chest, dissolved part of a rib... nasty stuff when pure! I would move the quart container into a foam lined carrier that could survive bouncing down the steps then carry it up to that workstation. Hated that stuff! Hydrochloric(muratic) acid we got in 1 gallon glass jugs. Used it all over the place for cleaning and testing. Lab had very hard ater and maintenance would run it through the pipes once a month ro clean them followed by a 2 hour water flush. Had other fun stuff there like ether... I found a 20 year old 5 gallon can buried in a closet full of junk. Ether gets VERY unstable with age. Bomb squad moved it to a small raft they made and floated it to the center of the sewage lagoon 1/2 mile behind the lab and detonated it with a rifle shot. It dang near emptied the lagoon. Stuff was a bomb waiting to go off from a hard bump...

[Bmi48219]

Thirty-eight years ago I was on a project at a Penwalt-BASF Oxidizer plant. They had large plastic vats and barrels of sulfuric and hydrochloric acid pretty much everywhere. I recall one of the plant workers saying the sulfuric acid wasn’t harmful and demonstrating his point by rolling up his sleeve and immersing his arm into a vat for about 30 seconds. His arm appeared fine but he did say you wanted to rinse it off pretty quick.
Less than a year later the entire plant burnt down. Five municipalities sent Fire responded to the alarm and they couldn’t put it out.

[Battis]

Well, I gotta say, I'm very glad that the jars didn't have sulfuric acid after reading some of the posts. Wow.
I went back today and got all four jar batteries. They still have the lids and posts, and all four were jointed by a wire.
So, if four jars were joined one to the next, and each jar was 2 volts, it made an 8 volt battery (from what I was told). I'll have to check that info out.
Why do you want those? I was asked. No sure, but they're pretty cool. Apparently they were also used to power telegraphs and doorbells.

[WRideout]

Well, I gotta say, I'm very glad that the jars didn't have sulfuric acid after reading some of the posts. Wow.
Apparently they were also used to power telegraphs and doorbells.

And radios, so I'm told.
Wayne

[Mal Paso]

Battery acid is a 25% solution, nowhere near full strength.

[popper]

Lyden jar batteries, very collectible IF you can find a museum.

[Mal Paso]

Lyden jar batteries, very collectible IF you can find a museum.

A Lyden jar is a capacitor, needs to be charged. What he has are Lead/Acid Batteries. The core is positive and outer tube negative.

It's the perfect collector item for a leadhead. Someone who knows to wash their hands. Positive is Lead Oxide.

[Battis]

This info describes the batteries I have:
"In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, people used batteries to power telegraph and telephone systems, ring bells and alarms, or spark gasoline engines. The Samson Electric Company had made wet cell battery like this one for years before moving production to Canton, Massachusetts. The glass jar held a conductive solution surrounding the carbon and zinc elements that produced an electrochemical reaction."

"on front label: PATENTED / THE SAMSON BATTERY/ NO. 2 / Reg. U. S. Pat. Off. / GREAT STRENGTH. / LONG LIFE. / Samson Electric Co. / CANTON, MASS. / QUALITY GUARANTEED on side label: DIRECTIONS / FIRST - Clean out jar and pour in Samson Sal-Ammoniac. / SECOND - See that carbon and zinc are firmly secured to cover and that they are not in contact at any point. / THIRD - Insert elements being careful not to overflow jar. Set the battery in a dry place. See that connections are clean and firmly made. / FOURTH - Keep carbon element covered with solution by adding water when necessary. For best results the solution should be renewed at least once a year. / MANUFACTURED BY / Samson Electric Co. / Canton, Mass. in raised letters on side: SAMSON / ELEC Co / CANTON/ MASS in raised letters on side: THE SAMSON BATTERY/ No 2 on lid: SAMSON BATTERY/ SAMSON ELECTRIC CO/ CANTON MASS"

[DougGuy]

Right after high school I worked at a feed testing lab for a summer, I moved the various chemicals around to the work stations. Sulfuric acid came in 55 gallon drums and was pumped into 5 gallon glass jars to move up to the lab. Caustic soda came the same but that we pumped up via an electric pump. Hydroflouric was kept in small plastic jars at the work stations and only 2 people in the lab were allowed to handle it. Me and the person using it for tests. That person dropped it on her counter an splashed it all over her front side... we stuffed her in the decon shower as we stripped her clothes off and waited for the life flight to land in the parking lot. They moved her immediately to the UofMN medical center. She survived with heart damage and was permanently disabled. It ate a crater in her chest, dissolved part of a rib... nasty stuff when pure! I would move the quart container into a foam lined carrier that could survive bouncing down the steps then carry it up to that workstation. Hated that stuff! Hydrochloric(muratic) acid we got in 1 gallon glass jugs. Used it all over the place for cleaning and testing. Lab had very hard ater and maintenance would run it through the pipes once a month ro clean them followed by a 2 hour water flush. Had other fun stuff there like ether... I found a 20 year old 5 gallon can buried in a closet full of junk. Ether gets VERY unstable with age. Bomb squad moved it to a small raft they made and floated it to the center of the sewage lagoon 1/2 mile behind the lab and detonated it with a rifle shot. It dang near emptied the lagoon. Stuff was a bomb waiting to go off from a hard bump...

Wow I had no idea hydrofluoric by itself was that nasty.

PCS Aurora is a HUGE acid producing plant in coastal North Carolina, it is bigger than many towns. They manufacture almost every acid known to man. I have worked shutdowns and construction projects there many times it's dangerous and nasty. I worked on a project that built a production unit, reaction vessel, compressor station and truck dock that produces Silicon TetraFluoride gas. This stuff eats stainless steel pipe and hastalloy pipe like nothing. It ate the gold off of a monel transducer.

They make it by adding 96% Sulfuric acid to Hydrofluorosilicic acid and it causes a violent reaction, it produces fumes that etch silicon chips. They stencil a design onto a microchip, then expose it to the STF gas which etches the un stenciled part, they then dip this into a metallic bath and it causes microscopic lands to form a circuit and it is actually the conductive traces in a microprocessor, millions of transistors fit in a minute area, this is the gas they use to create these chips with. Pretty fascinating stuff.

The stuff is so corrosive it cannot be stored. It goes directly from the compressors (made out of 100% Monel 400) at high temperature and very high pressure into these special trailers that have long cylinders like 40' long oxygen cylinders on the trailer and it immediately goes directly to the customer, they use it immediately when the trucks arrive. If you're cruising the interstate and you see this plain unadorned unmarked white tractor pulling a white trailer with these long cylinders on it, that's what's in there. I would hate to see the aftermath if one of those trucks crashes.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You could ask local battery shops if they could use the Sulphuric, maybe yes, maybe no. The6y'd know how to dispose of it for sure.

[Battis]

What happens to sulfuric acid over a long time in these types of jars? I don't see any liquid in any of them, none at all. I do see a solid white and yellow chunk that might be the Sal-Ammoniac, "a rare naturally occurring mineral composed of ammonium chloride, NH4Cl. It forms colorless, white, or yellow-brown crystals in the isometric-hexoctahedral class."
I'll get some pics.

[hiram]

I remember from high school chemistry if you mix an acid with a basic (caustic) solution the byproducts are water and a salt.

[Battis]

Apparently, the white substance I'm seeing in the jars is sal-ammoniac. You can buy that stuff online now. They use it to clean the tips of soldering irons, they use it to make certain candy. It's harmless. I removed a cover from one of the jars yesterday and inside smelled like licorice. I emptied it out, cleaned the glass and metal, and plan to do all four. I guess those jars are pretty rare with all of the internals in place. Samson Battery jars.
I guess that was one way to keep "the kids" from playing with your stuff. Tell them over the years that those are batteries - well, batteries have acid so we'll leave them alone.

[Battis]

left - mostly cleaned
right - untouched.
All four were joined by a wire at the top.
I can see why people were wary of what was inside.

[GregLaROCHE]

I remember seeing batteries like that when I was a kid, in the basement of my grandmother’s old house. I think they were once used to power the doorbells etc.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Fun stuff :)

hiram, I wouldn't be surprised if you also got a bunch of heat when mixing acids and bases?