'44 special in 44 mag' vs 44-40

[stef76]

Fellas just asking for a friend looking at these calibres in a modern lever gun. He wants to shoot 200-240 grain bullets at 1000-1250fps and was thinking of loading 44 special brass in a 44 mag lever. The question is whether there is any advantage to getting a 44-40 instead from an accuracy point of view? Or maybe just downloading 44 mag to start with. He will only be using light charges of moderately fast burners( nothing slower than unique). I think he figured maybe the 44 special will have less powder position variations being a smaller case, but then it has to make a jump to the rifling. Anything to really split this decision or is it all splitting hairs?

[sharps4590]

Get the 44-40 and load 8 grs. of Unique and be done with it. I think he's splitting hairs needlessly

[Soundguy]

Take your 44 mag brass and load a minimum charge of trail boss. No jump issue and it's a reduced ( everything) load.

[Jedman]

Either of the 44 mag. or 44-40 can easily loaded to that velocity. The 44-40 actually has more internal volume than. 44 mag already.

Jedman

[JoeJames]

Since my Rossi R92 will not feed 44 Special, I load 7 grains of Unique under either a Lee 430 240 grain water quenched or an Oregon Trail laser cast .431 240 grain swc in a 44 Magnum case, and get @1050 fps. I also use the same boolits in all my 44 Special revolvers.

[veeman]

44-40 is just plain cooler! :grin:

[Bent Ramrod]

If he wants to shoot black powder, or likes the traditional aspect, the .44-40 is the way to go. If he prefers ease of reloading or wants maximum versatility, the .44 Magnum would probably be best. You can duplicate anything from .44 Special through 44-40 to full-house .44 Magnum loadings, with the added bonus of using carbide dies for reloading.

I like the .44-40 as well as anyone, but once I fitted a .44 Special cylinder to my .44-40 SAA clone, I have the admit I haven’t used the .44-40 cylinder much. The loads shoot to a different point of aim, and lubricating and cleaning the bottleneck cases is extra work. Attrition of the more fragile .44-40 cases through mouth cracks or mangling in the dies goes at a higher rate, too.

[stef76]

Thanks fellas. I'd forgotten the 44-40 is a little larger capacity than the 44mag too, I will pass that on as well

[Outpost75]

The .44 Magnum case works extremely well with loads approximating the payload and velocity of the .44-40, giving almost identical results with the same bullets and powder charges. Just make sure that bullets are of correct diameter for cylinder throats and barrel. I have found no advantage to using .44 Special brass because the increased free bullet travel negates any potential advantage of having reduced powder capacity.

.44 Magnum brass is plentiful, inexpensive and sturdy. Not so with .44-40. A boutique round for nostalgia, more expensive, thin walled and fragile, requiring finesse in handling.

[stef76]

Thanks Outpost75 and others. And can I ask for someone to address the issue of blowback in straight walled catridges. Were he to load charges in the 5.5-6 grain red dot range or unique in 6-8 grain etc(adjusting for 44sp vs 44 mag as needed) is this a problem. Saw some posts about the issue of blowback. Actually what is the real problem with blowback? Inconsistent pressures, bad accuracy or unpleasant gas in the face? Would the 44 special also give more blowback being a shorter case. I dont recall having blowback issues in 38 special fired from lever guns is all

[smkummer]

My 1970’s vintage Marlin 1894 44 mag. feeds best with long cases. So it’s easy to down load 44 mag brass. Remember too that straight wall cases can be loaded with carbide dies that need no lube. Currently my 1894 is shooting cowboy loads that are very light with a 200 grain lead bullet and 4.5 grains 700X. In a 44 special case, it’s 4.2 grains with the same Lee bullet. As stated, 44-40 needs special attention for its application.

[indian joe]

The .44 Magnum case works extremely well with loads approximating the payload and velocity of the .44-40, giving almost identical results with the same bullets and powder charges. Just make sure that bullets are of correct diameter for cylinder throats and barrel. I have found no advantage to using .44 Special brass because the increased free bullet travel negates any potential advantage of having reduced powder capacity.

.44 Magnum brass is plentiful, inexpensive and sturdy. Not so with .44-40. A boutique round for nostalgia, more expensive, thin walled and fragile, requiring finesse in handling.

whats a boutique round for nostalgia ? sounds a bit one eyed that does
plenty of 44/40 brass around at reasonable prices last time I looked, yeah its a little more cost but not so bad, still cheaper than most.
fragile requiring finesse in handling ?? must be a lot of ham fisted blokes live north of the equator - I been loading the stuff for decades and never had a serious problem
plus side 44/40 feeds way better in many lever guns than the 44mag - dont have the blowby problem with blackpowder fouling either
and like the man said "its way cooler"

[Texas by God]

The 44-40 might feed better in a 92 style action but the .44 magnum is the easier choice for reloading all levels fourty four as said by Outpost.
That said, I have a 44-40 single shot rifle and I feel no need for the .44 magnum.
Since 1873.

[Walks]

Never thought of .44-40 as a "boutique" round, but I guess growing up with Winchester '92s and Colt SAAs I just think of it as just another round. It along with the .38-40 are far better cartridges for Black Powder.

The .44Mag in a Lever gun can easily Loaded down, one of My Cowboy Shooting Friends shoots the N.O.E. #TL432-247-RF over 5.5grs of TiteGroup in a .44Mag case.
I use the Lyman #429667; 240 RNFP over 5.0grs in a .44Spl case. Both loads function flawlessly in Win 94, Marlin 1894 and Rossi 92 .44Mag Rifles.
Overall cartridge length is about the same with both loads.

[sharps4590]

I never thought the 44-40 as a boutique round either, or difficult to load or fragile, unless you're not paying attention and are slamming the cases in the press and literally ramming them into the die. But, I've only been loading it since the mid-80's so maybe I've missed something. I don't even think the 32-20 requires finesse and you can crush the neck of it with your fingers. There again, my experience with it only runs to 40+ years so I'm probably not up to speed on it.

[rintinglen]

Anyone who states the 44-40 is as easy to load, as cheap to buy, as common to find, or as sturdy as the 44 Mag is, is either delusional, forgetful or dishonest. The 44-40 needs to be lubed when sizing, and those thin case walls crumple like tissue if your case, or boolit, is misaligned at all. Mag brass is usually 10% or more less costly, while in normal times, any sporting goods store worth its name has 44 mag ammo sitting on the shelf.
The only claim of the 44-40 advocates that stands up to challenge is the coolness factor. A 44-40 is not like half the other guns on the line, newbies get glazed eyes when your "antique" shoots groups their plastic pistol can't match. And when loaded with black powder, you get a "boom" with a rolling cloud of grey smoke, not a "crack" and a whisp of smoke that wafts away before you have time to see it. That is cool.
But it ain't easy, common or cheap.

[indian joe]

Anyone who states the 44-40 is as easy to load, as cheap to buy, as common to find, or as sturdy as the 44 Mag is, is either delusional, forgetful or dishonest. The 44-40 needs to be lubed when sizing, and those thin case walls crumple like tissue if your case, or boolit, is misaligned at all. Mag brass is usually 10% or more less costly, while in normal times, any sporting goods store worth its name has 44 mag ammo sitting on the shelf.
The only claim of the 44-40 advocates that stands up to challenge is the coolness factor. A 44-40 is not like half the other guns on the line, newbies get glazed eyes when your "antique" shoots groups their plastic pistol can't match. And when loaded with black powder, you get a "boom" with a rolling cloud of grey smoke, not a "crack" and a whisp of smoke that wafts away before you have time to see it. That is cool.
But it ain't easy, common or cheap.

We speak of our own experience - you dont like mine - I dont have yours - thats cool
1) easy to load ? I been loading 44/40 for 50 years and never had a problem worth bothering about with the stuff you talk about - but I work my press with my fingers not a clenched fist
2) cost - yeah 5 to 10 % more for 44/40 - they both quite cheap compared to most other brass - put that in the so what basket
3) beat the bushes in my neck of the woods and I bet you flush out more 44/40 ammo than 44mag - thats life in rural downunder
4) needs lube for sizing - so what? at the velocities the O P is talking - sizing should be a non event - maybe every five reloads - if ya wanna kill your brass by FLS every shot go ahead - not my plan at all .
5) 44mag is an inferior Blackpowder case (to the 44/40) in every regard - that makes a difference to some of us.
6) the feed issue in some lever guns is real, the 44/40 definitely smoother and less problematic, if not then they likely bored the chamber oversize.

[stef76]

We speak of our own experience - you dont like mine - I dont have yours - thats cool
1) easy to load ? I been loading 44/40 for 50 years and never had a problem worth bothering about with the stuff you talk about - but I work my press with my fingers not a clenched fist
2) cost - yeah 5 to 10 % more for 44/40 - they both quite cheap compared to most other brass - put that in the so what basket
3) beat the bushes in my neck of the woods and I bet you flush out more 44/40 ammo than 44mag - thats life in rural downunder
4) needs lube for sizing - so what? at the velocities the O P is talking - sizing should be a non event - maybe every five reloads - if ya wanna kill your brass by FLS every shot go ahead - not my plan at all .
5) 44mag is an inferior Blackpowder case (to the 44/40) in every regard - that makes a difference to some of us.
6) the feed issue in some lever guns is real, the 44/40 definitely smoother and less problematic, if not then they likely bored the chamber oversize.

More 44/40 ammo than 44mag? Not in my part of rural Australia. Generally 44mag has at least a dozen loads imported here. 44-40 is usually just a couple cowboy loads. This pre-covid of course, not even sure what is available right now.

[sharps4590]

Anyone who states the 44-40 is as easy to load, as cheap to buy, as common to find, or as sturdy as the 44 Mag is, is either delusional, forgetful or dishonest. The 44-40 needs to be lubed when sizing, and those thin case walls crumple like tissue if your case, or boolit, is misaligned at all. Mag brass is usually 10% or more less costly, while in normal times, any sporting goods store worth its name has 44 mag ammo sitting on the shelf.
The only claim of the 44-40 advocates that stands up to challenge is the coolness factor. A 44-40 is not like half the other guns on the line, newbies get glazed eyes when your "antique" shoots groups their plastic pistol can't match. And when loaded with black powder, you get a "boom" with a rolling cloud of grey smoke, not a "crack" and a whisp of smoke that wafts away before you have time to see it. That is cool.
But it ain't easy, common or cheap.

I never saw cheap mentioned, or sturdy, around here it is as common as 44 Spl. and I'm neither delusional, forgetful or dishonest. It is as easy to load as anything else unless you're ham handed, inattentive and near blind. I loaded 50 44 Spl. last week. I sized and lubed the 429421 bullets just like those for my 44-40. Your point was? Cost? When compared to the cost of the firearm, that's a rather moot point. I load mostly smokeless but always have some BP loaded cartridges because I like them. Smokeless loads as easy in my 44-40's as my 44 Spl. I could give two spits in the ocean less what anyone thinks of it but disinformation never solved anything. I don't shoot at a club or public range and there's no one to impress at my back yard range. The few times I have shot at clubs or private ranges, other than matches, I wasn't there to impress someone so cool only exists in the mind of those for whom that is even a factor. It isn't for me. I prefer the 44 Spl. AND the 44-40 over the 44 Mag. and, I shot a Ruger SBH for several years in Hunter Pistol Silhouette. I don't need the fire breathing 44 Mag anymore. If I did, I'd use my Freedom Arms in 45 Colt.

[MT Gianni]

If he ever wants a handgun I would go with the 44 Mag. It is very easy to download, factory ammo is a lot easier to find than 44-40 and bullets, sizing dies and molds are easier to find in 0.429-0.433" than 0.427".

[Cosmic_Charlie]

12 grains of HS-6 under a 240 gr. boolit will get you into that fps range nicely in the .44 mag. Shoots great out of my Blackhawk and would be very pleasant out of a rifle. You can really tailor your loads with a .44 mag.

[sharps4590]

Any new 44-40's are .429

[Outpost75]

Any new 44-40's are .429

Or LARGER!

My 1993 Marlin 1894S is .432,
1977 Cdn. Winchester '94 and recent production Rossi Brazi-Tech Miami, FL gun, S&W 544 Texas Wagon Train and Ruger Vaquero are all .430

I shoot soft 8-10 BHN bullets sized .430 in ALL of my .44-40s, even in my 1920 Colt New Service and 1905 Colt SA.

Key is to cast chambers and determine what diameter of chamber NECK is to see if there is sufficient release clearance for the larger bullets.

Older Colts, S&W 544, Marlin 1894S, El Tigre and Rossi all have .447-.448 chamber neck diameter, being fine with a .430 bullet in Starline brass.

My 1992 Ruger Vaquero had tight .4445 chamber necks, .425" cylinder throats and .430 barrel groove diameter and wouldn't shoot for sour apples until I had John Taylor rechamber the cylinder with the reamer he uses to do his relined antique 1873 Winchesters. Chambers are now .447 neck with .4305 diameter ball seat, and charge holes line-bored to .430, so it now shoots like a rifle!

[indian joe]

More 44/40 ammo than 44mag? Not in my part of rural Australia. Generally 44mag has at least a dozen loads imported here. 44-40 is usually just a couple cowboy loads. This pre-covid of course, not even sure what is available right now.

we have a couple active blackpowder groups maybe is the difference -- whatever - its a hairsplit between these two and comes down to the pressure handling ability of the guns. 44/40 will do anything the 44mag will do in an equal frame. You might assume I get a little tired of blokes derogatizing the original round for no good reason, you'd be right!