My load data sheet: Critique it

[Stopsign32v]

Is there anything you would add or take away from it?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51312800357_b0b44bb2d3_o.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/113193676@N08/39F1EV)

Main credit here goes to ryanmattes. And here is his real version:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210715/3502682cb0b529ec598d9a3c036217e3.jpg

[Huskerguy]

Are you hand writing the information in those boxes? Will this piece of paper be your actual target or how are the "target" results getting on the form?

I am a spread sheet kind of guy so I can go from cell to cell quickly. That is IF you are doing this on a computer and not by hand. Aren't there some chrono pieces missing?

Are you going to use this for developing loads? If so, then some of those boxes are going to be redundant. For instance, I might work up a 38 Special load with 125 grain bullets but the bullet is constant through all the loads, generally the primary piece that changes is the amount of powder.

Looks good!

[JoeJames]

That looks good. I have a data sheet as a part of my target and then shrink the target to fit in my 5x8 size notebook.

286131286130

[Stopsign32v]

Are you hand writing the information in those boxes? Will this piece of paper be your actual target or how are the "target" results getting on the form?

I am a spread sheet kind of guy so I can go from cell to cell quickly. That is IF you are doing this on a computer and not by hand. Aren't there some chrono pieces missing?

Are you going to use this for developing loads? If so, then some of those boxes are going to be redundant. For instance, I might work up a 38 Special load with 125 grain bullets but the bullet is constant through all the loads, generally the primary piece that changes is the amount of powder.

Looks good!

These blank pages will fill a 3 ring binder and a pen will go with me to the range. I will fill in the information by hand and take notes on the targets. Once I get home I'd cut out the targets and tape them to the paper and the notes beside the targets with information.

This will be for developing accurate loads for a particular firearm. Later I can organize via powder, firearm, whatever.

I've never used a chrono and don't even have one (yet) so I can't tell you if info is missing or not. But I feel velocity is enough. Notes would be for things like pressure signs if needed and other things.

[ryanmattes]

Avg velocity, extreme spread, and std deviation is more important than high and low in the chrono data section.

Like in the picture, I'll write in all 10 readings next to each target if I think it's useful.

@Huskerguy The copy of my sheet he showed actually is a ladder. I wrote the charges in as a list, and taped the targets for each group in on the same page, marked each of the targets with the charge weight, and wrote the velocity data next to them.

So if only one thing is changing, I'll do the whole ladder on a single sheet, or maybe two if I need more room for targets.

[Outpost75]

In revolvers barrel-cylinder gap is important and should be recorded

[Stopsign32v]

In revolvers barrel-cylinder gap is important and should be recorded

Can you explain more? I know in Rugers you can shim the barrel-cylinder gap and I also know how to read it. But what does this information tell you?

[Stopsign32v]

Avg velocity, extreme spread, and std deviation is more important

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Ok I understand average velocity. What is extreme spread and std deviation?

[ryanmattes]

Ok I understand average velocity. What is extreme spread and std deviation?Extreme spread is the distance between highest and lowest.

Std deviation is like, how different, on average, is each shot from the others. How much difference is there, from shot to shot, among the whole group.

In both cases, smaller numbers are better.

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[ryanmattes]

Can you explain more? I know in Rugers you can shim the barrel-cylinder gap and I also know how to read it. But what does this information tell you?If I loaded more for revolvers I might've added that. Otherwise it can always go in the notes section, since it only applies to some guns. The stuff at the top is needed for nearly every gun, except BHN for jacketed.

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[ryanmattes]

It does take a little discipline to write everything down by hand, to mark each target correctly, and the get them all marked up and added to the book after a day at the range. But it leaves a paper trail that I like to have.

Also, my book has grown from a 1/4" binder, to a 1/2", to a 3/4" over the years, and it's starting to be too big to carry to the range. So my current plan is to have a second, 1"+ binder at home as an archive, and I'll move all my failed experiments into there, and only keep current "known good" loads and new developments in my smaller book.

Also, I mostly separate them by caliber, but I'll sometimes make a separate tab if I'm loading for someone else or a unique gun.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210715/bc3dbaea87cff8ade0cd82db45a86285.jpg

[1006]

I like to have the temperature recorded.

[ryanmattes]

I like to have the temperature recorded.I'm never shooting long enough ranges with test loads for it to matter. If I was, I might also add barometer and dope.

I've also gotten lazy and stopped writing in the target distance unless it's unusual. Unless otherwise noted, pistol is at 10 yards and rifle is at 100.

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[Stopsign32v]

Extreme spread is the distance between highest and lowest.

Std deviation is like, how different, on average, is each shot from the others. How much difference is there, from shot to shot, among the whole group.

In both cases, smaller numbers are better.

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We are still talking about just velocity right? Extreme spread of highest to lowest fps? What I'm not understanding here is on your filled in sheet you have charge weight of 7-7.5-8-8.5. Shouldn't extreme spread and std deviation be with 1 charge, be it 7, 7.5, 8, OR 8.5? So one page could only be used for 1 exact load?

[dverna]

Shooting cast, I suggest adding the lube you used, and if you visually inspected and/or weight sorted your bullets. If you weight sorted, the range of weights.

Anal inspection and weight sorting are silly for pistol blasting/plinking ammunition but it will matter in evaluating rifle loads.

It is easier for me to list the alloy instead of hardness but that is just my preference. Nothing "wrong" with using hardness but be aware you can get the same hardness with different alloys. And it may matter if you water quench or air cool.

[Outpost75]

Can you explain more? I know in Rugers you can shim the barrel-cylinder gap and I also know how to read it. But what does this information tell you?

Knowing gap is absolutely necessary to validate velocity data. In .38 Special a 2-inch barrel at minimum assembly tolerance pass 0.002/hold 0.003 will usually produce higher velocity than a 4-inch at customer service maximum pass 0.008/hold 0.009.

[Stopsign32v]

Knowing gap is absolutely necessary to validate velocity data. In .38 Special a 2-inch barrel at minimum assembly tolerance pass 0.002/hold 0.003 will usually produce higher velocity than a 4-inch at customer service maximum pass 0.008/hold 0.009.

You gotta dumb this down for me to understand. What is "assembly tolerance pass" and "customer service maximum pass"? And what is the hold?

[ryanmattes]

We are still talking about just velocity right? Extreme spread of highest to lowest fps? What I'm not understanding here is on your filled in sheet you have charge weight of 7-7.5-8-8.5. Shouldn't extreme spread and std deviation be with 1 charge, be it 7, 7.5, 8, OR 8.5? So one page could only be used for 1 exact load?

In the ladder on the sheet I sent you I wrote them next to each target. They're listed as AVG, SD, and ES.

In a single load I'll write it up at the top.

When I'm done with the ladders and I settle on a "known good" load for that cartridge, I'll fill out a single load page the next time I load it, and move it to the front of the book. I'll usually record the first time I bulk load it, and put a couple targets and notes in about it. That one stays at the front with my repeatable loads, for quick reference. Having a baseline average, std deviation, and spread for that load is useful.as a rough gauge for how consistent to expect that bulk load to be.

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[Stopsign32v]

In the ladder on the sheet I sent you I wrote them next to each target. They're listed as AVG, SD, and ES.

In a single load I'll write it up at the top.

When I'm done with the ladders and I settle on a "known good" load for that cartridge, I'll fill out a single load page the next time I load it, and move it to the front of the book. I'll usually record the first time I bulk load it, and put a couple targets and notes in about it. That one stays at the front with my repeatable loads, for quick reference. Having a baseline average, std deviation, and spread for that load is useful.as a rough gauge for how consistent to expect that bulk load to be.

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Ahhhhhhhhh ok!

[ryanmattes]

And, to everyone, I'm in no way saying my sheet was a one size fits all. It's what I adapted to my use over time, until I lost the spreadsheet in one computer upgrade or another, and then I just kept using what I had.

It works for me, but likely wouldn't work as well for guys doing precision long range or high powered revolver loading.

But it's a good place to start to figure out what works for you.

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[ryanmattes]

@Stopsign32v

One suggestion on the top 2 rows

Make - style - alloy
Weight - diameter - lube/jacket

Make/mold are essentially the same. It's either a Hornady ###### (brand and model) or a Lyman 454424 (mold)

Style is built in to the bullet, you can't change it. RNFP, or SWC, or whatever.

Alloy is either the alloy, or the BHN, or empty for commercial

Weight varies, might be a range.

Diameter you size to

Lube/jacket (bad name, not sure what else to call it) is whether it's jacketed, or plated, or coated, or wax lubed

Those 6 fields give you a lot of info and a lot of flexibility.

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[Ford SD]

3006 Garand For Garand sn # Test 1
Bullet noe 311299 cast load date july 4 2021 Fired date
weight 208 g Primer CCI 200 LR lot F24P
Air cooled or WD Lube Type Bc 0.377
Brass lot 3 weight brass Length brass OAL 3.200 +-
Powder IMR 4895 Lot 1012915-8003

Some of what I use

[Markopolo]

I like it !!!! nice work...

I also love that JM marlin in 44 cal.. what a sweetheart!

marko

[C.F.Plinker]

I don't save the targets themselves. Instead I measure the center to center distance for the two shots that were the farthest apart for the 5 shot group and record that. Then I measure the center to center distance for the best 4 out of 5 and the best 3 out of 5 to get rid of any flyers. This is easily done by setting the boolit diameter on a digital caliper, zeroing the caliper, then measuring the outside to outside of the holes. Another way is to stick a piece of cardboard onto the zero end of a ruler with the boolit diameters marked on it and again measure outside to outside. I put 5 aiming points on the back of a 20 x 24 target. This gives me plenty of room for notes etc on the target.

I also measure pressure ring expansion for every shot as they are fired and calculate the average for each string at the range.

The sheet I take to the range has stop points written on it. These are the maximum velocity and maximum change in the average and maximum pressure ring expansion with respect to the values for the starting load. If I hit those stop points I stop realizing that I will probably have to pull down some loads when I get back home.

I usually load from 90% of max to the max load in 1% steps. The most interesting one was loading 158 grain XTPs for my rifle. Hornady suggests 15 grains to 16.5 grains with the velocity of 1750 fps from a 18.5 inch barrel. I matched components and barrel length. On the 15.2 grain charge I got 1776 fps. Time to stop. The 15.2 grain group was half the size of the 15 grain group. i'm happy with a max (for that rifle) load using the minimum amount of powder. I loaded what was left in that can for the 357 realizing that I will have to work up a new load with the new can of powder.

[Wayne Smith]

Extreme spread is the difference between your high and low velocities. The mean is the same as an average. The standard deviation is the amount of variability around the mean, or how much each number varies from the mean. A high standard deviation means you have numbers all over the place, a low standard deviation means that the numbers are nicely clustered around the mean.

[JoeJames]

Oh well, any system is better than noting at all. I have kept notes in my notebook for a long time and it sure helps me. Especially my targets.

[mdi]

Shooting cast bullets I add lube and sized diameter. When shooting out doors I occasionally add weather conditions (temp, sunny-overcast, rain/mist, etc.). I also add my "condition" (I have "bad eye" days and "blah" days when accuracy is greatly affected)...

Of course I include the gun used but I have not found cylinder gap measurement to be of much use when shooting one of my 9 revolvers I load for load data. I have compared loads gun to gun mainly for fun/my info., but that goes into the individual gun's file...

Decide what info is best for you to decide on "The Load" for a particular gun and you can duplicate it easily...