Chilean Model 1895 Mauser 7.62 Nato

[Dutchman]

When Century Arms in Vermont was selling off a bunch of junk I bought two of these Chilean Model 1895 Mauser rifles chambered in 7.62 Nato. In examining I noticed a silver colored ring at the breech of the barrel. Probably not real noticeable to a lot of fellows but I can be inquisitive at times. Having a vertical milling machine in the shop made this a no-brainer. I removed the barrel and sectioned the breech end of the barrel. Apparently this was a 1st in internet history. My webpage on this rifle has been online for twenty years and is heavily visited.
http://dutchman.rebooty.com1895Chile.html (http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html)

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This conversion was a matter of military expediency. Lots of rifles in an obsolete caliber. What to do? Cheap solution was to re-purpose them in the current caliber of 7.62x51 Nato. Was it a good solution? For them it was. For shooters in the 20th century..... not so good. I'll leave the debate to others since my mind is long ago made up. If you have one of these and want to shoot it I suggest only cast bullets with moderate pressure levels. And I'd bet money they'll fail a field headspace gage.

I also cut off the receiver barrel threads to show better the bolt lug races, upper and lower, showing lug set-back. This happens when the bolt lugs push back heavily and repeatedly into the lug races. This is one of the main causes of excessive headspace. It turns a rifle into a piece of wall art.

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Prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 rifles like this one were imported in as-new, unissued condition like this one below. Today, in 2021, this rifle would bring over $1,500, IMO. Could be closer to $1,800.

This Chilean 1895 is a beautifully manufactured rifle that takes second place to no other rifle. They were manufactured by Ludwig Loewe and later DWM. In my opinion the Ludwig Loewe firearms were the finest firearms manufactured by the hand of man. The quality and workmanship was as good as was humanly possible. And that was in 1895. They were manufactured into 1902 and differ from Model 1893 in a couple features so they are not identical to the Model 1893 Mauser. Original caliber was 7x57 Mauser.

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[Uncle Grinch]

I bought one of these many, many years ago and after doing some research, probably some of your findings, prompted me to quickly sell my “308 Win” rifle.

Good to see you posting it here again.

[358429]

That is so incredibly Mickey Mouse. What is holding the chamber insert in place? Is that just a press-fit interference?

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[Dutchman]

That is so incredibly Mickey Mouse. What is holding the chamber insert in place? Is that just a press-fit interference?

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Silver solder of some sort.

[405grain]

I also think that the 1895 Chilean Mauser was a very well made and designed small ring. I have two of these actions that I bought years ago for about $40 each. Luck smiled and both of them came with hinged floorplates. One of them is being turned into a sporter in 6.5x55, and the other will also become a sporting rifle in 7.65x53. The craftsmanship that Ludwig Loewe put into these is top notch.

[kr54]

What did they do about bore diameter? Were these originally 7mm or 7.65?

[Walks]

I've had one of these in 7x57 since 1975. It has no crest, a hinged floorplate and a mismatched 1893 bolt.
However headspace is perfect. First time I shot it I used a light cast load at 50yrds. Had a bit of a problem, 1st round was in the 9ring at 6 O' clock. Couldn't find the 2nd shot, tried a 3rd shot. That's when I realized all 3 shots were in one hole.

I converted it to a Scout Rifle, still shoots as great as ever. They are Beautifully made Rifles.

[Dutchman]

What did they do about bore diameter? Were these originally 7mm or 7.65?

The 1895 Chilean was originally 7x57mm. The 7.62 Nato conversions were re-bored and rifled.

Dutch

[Texas by God]

Other than the flat bottomed bolt face on the 1893, are there other differences (excluding crests and stampings) between the 1893 and 1895 actions?

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[Dutchman]

Other than the flat bottomed bolt face on the 1893, are there other differences (excluding crests and stampings) between the 1893 and 1895 actions?

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The receivers themselves are different. The 1895 has a wide rear tang (see photo) compared to the 1893. The receiver also has a "notch" for the bolt handle visible in this image.

An 1895 bolt will fit and function in a 1893 model. I don't think I tried the 93 bolt in a 95 rifle.

95 action on the left.... 93 action on the right
https://images54.fotki.com/v556/photos/2/28344/157842/DSCF0609q-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/vintage_firearms/dscf0609q.html)286217
1893 model on left, 1895 model on right.
https://images49.fotki.com/v361/photos/2/28344/157842/DSCF0587q-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/vintage_firearms/dscf0587q.html)https://images54.fotki.com/v556/photos/2/28344/157842/DSCF0608q-vi.jpg (https://public.fotki.com/dutchman/crufflerstuff/vintage_firearms/dscf0608q.html)

More info: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?69157-1893-v-1895-Mauser

[Texas by God]

Thank you, Dutchman. I love learning more about Mausers of all types.

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[405grain]

There are two main differences between a '93 bolt and a '95 bolt. First, and most obvious, is that the '93 bolt has a square "chin". At the time it was produced Mauser thought that this chin would assist in stripping rounds from the magazine. It was later discovered that the chin was unnecessary, and it was omitted from later designs. Though a '95 bolt will fit in both a '93 and a '95 receiver, a bolt from an 1893 Mauser will only fit into a '93. (The chin can be ground off - then it will fit in a '95)
The second difference is that the top edge of the bolt face on a '93 has a relief cut in it that makes removing and installing the extractor very easy. The '95 and all subsequent Mauser's lack this relief cut, making the removal and installation of the extractor include choice cuss words accompanied with the possibility of a cut finger. The '93 bolt fully supports the extractor during primary extraction, but all later models fully support the extractor all the time. I had read somewhere that the extraction mechanism on a '98 was designed so that, in the event of a severely stuck case, the butt of the rifle could be placed against the ground and a 300 pound man could stomp on the bolt handle without damaging the action.

[jimkim]

I remember seeing similar work with Spanish Mausers. I remember reading this. I sure miss the days of buying 93 Mausers for next to nothing. They, and Enfield's used to be everywhere.

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[dverna]

I have always been leery of the small ring Mausers in .308.....your findings are scary.

[pls1911]

Years back I bought four Spanish '93s in 7.62.
They cleaned up nicely and shot well, and made excellent cast bullet shooters, requiring only a little Dremel polishing on the claw extractors to function flawlessly.
Still have one rebuilt and one to grease-paper, have not seen 'em in years.
Need to get it shooting again.

[444ttd]

i have two 1916 ('93) spanish mausers. the one is going to 6.5x55 swede(she has gone to the gunsmith already). it will be my youngest son's rifle. i have a 1895 chilean navy mauser action but i don't know what chamber it will have.


https://i.imgur.com/CN2BQnE.jpg

[jimkim]

i have two 1916 ('93) spanish mausers. the one is going to 6.5x55 swede(she has gone to the gunsmith already). it will be my youngest son's rifle. i have a 1895 chilean navy mauser action but i don't know what chamber it will have.


https://i.imgur.com/CN2BQnE.jpgI always wanted to build a 250-3000 Savage, or 35 Rem(16" barrel) with one. Unfortunately, others wanted it more than me. I think that 35 would be a sweet pig gun.

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[444ttd]

I always wanted to build a 250-3000 Savage, or 35 Rem(16" barrel) with one. Unfortunately, others wanted it more than me. I think that 35 would be a sweet pig gun.

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the other 93 spanish will be a 257 roberts. i've always wanted one, but you know how life is.

[405grain]

I've seen this a lot: People will think that they've got an 1895 Chilean "Navy" rifle because of the "anchor" stamped on the receiver. It's not an anchor, and it's not a navy rifle. The rifle was made by Ludwig Loewe in the 1890's for the Chilean army. In old German the letter "L" looks like a "J". That stamp that looks like an anchor is actually two letter L's back to back. It was the trademark for Ludwig Loewe.

[smithnframe]

Beautiful piece of wood!

[racepres]

I always wanted to build a 250-3000 Savage, or 35 Rem(16" barrel) with one. Unfortunately, others wanted it more than me. I think that 35 would be a sweet pig gun.

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Yup, a Chilean in 250-3000 is sweet, some feeding issues tho.. on mine anyway...
the 35 Rem, is superlative on a Large ring... But this action was kinda Swiss Cheezed by??? a Practicing Smith??
Feeds Great... depending on the Boolit..

[444ttd]

I've seen this a lot: People will think that they've got an 1895 Chilean "Navy" rifle because of the "anchor" stamped on the receiver. It's not an anchor, and it's not a navy rifle. The rifle was made by Ludwig Loewe in the 1890's for the Chilean army. In old German the letter "L" looks like a "J". That stamp that looks like an anchor is actually two letter L's back to back. It was the trademark for Ludwig Loewe.

that i did not know. you learn something new every day.

[FLINTNFIRE]

What about this one http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/1895-chilean-mauser-rifle-2.htm shows a anchor and chain

[405grain]

FLINTFIRE: Now that one is definitely an anchor! The Chileans did in fact have a Navy, and the rifle you pointed out is obviously from that service. The "anchor" that I was talking about is a small stamp on the right hand side of the receiver. There's sometimes another stamp which can cause confusion on Ludwig Loewe rifles. Mr. Loewe was a Hebrew, and on several models of Mauser's made by his company there's a small star of David stamped on the receiver. These aren't Israeli Mauser's because Israel didn't exist then. Mr. Loewe was just taking pride in his religion.

[FLINTNFIRE]

405grain I was wondering about the star of david and had came to the conclusion he was showing his belief , wish more today took pride in their heritage , I know nothing about the Chilean mausers just came across that link .

Now I need to look at my commission rifle see what it is marked .

[copperlake]

I also cut off the receiver barrel threads to show better the bolt lug races, upper and lower, showing lug set-back. This happens when the bolt lugs push back heavily and repeatedly into the lug races. This is one of the main causes of excessive headspace. It turns a rifle into a piece of wall art.

What would be interesting to know is if that setback was residual i.e., from the get of the rebuild. I mean, I wonder if they would have resurfaced the races and thus removed some casing (not a sensible idea) or just headspace to what was extant in which case the setback might (?) have been there all along. I Have '95 and '93's with setback in the original caliber, 7x57.

[Dutchman]

What would be interesting to know is if that setback was residual i.e., from the get of the rebuild. I mean, I wonder if they would have resurfaced the races and thus removed some casing (not a sensible idea) or just headspace to what was extant in which case the setback might (?) have been there all along. I Have '95 and '93's with setback in the original caliber, 7x57.

Greetings all the way to Homer...

Your basic misunderstanding here is 1-how gov't bureaucracies work... 2- how military dictatorships work.... 3- the low cost of army conscripts in a South American country.

And while I applaud your technical curiosity I'm afraid your most valid questions will forevermore remain unanswered until the sun burns out and the 3rd ice age encompasses earth. Anything else is just a WAG.


Dutch (who supports the Alaska fishing industry)

[Larry Gibson]

Many times what is perceived as "bolt lug set back" in Mauser actions of all models, including M98s, is actually the "seating/mating of the bolt lugs to the locking surfaces. This initial seating or the bolt lugs to the action was expected. Usually after the initial seating no further "set back" with normal milsurp ammunition was expected or experienced. If the set back did continue then eventually the bolt would form a recess in the lug area and could not be opened after firing because the case would hold the lugs back in the recesses. Acceptable headspace specifications were/are much longer than acceptable commercial standards. With the CRF Mauser actions the extractor holds the case back against the bolt to fire so the case bolt to shoulder headspace dimension isn't really a factor. If the chamber headspace is to long the case simply fire forms. The military "field" go gauge was very generous in length for all the Mauser military cartridges.

Not saying that the picture posted wasn't "set back". Just saying we shouldn't confuse normal seating of the lugs in Mauser actions with "set back". My M95 is till in original 7x57 and is in excellent condition as it was sporterized probably when in was basically new. The headspace does exceed the SAAMI no-go headspace dimension.......

Additionally, the actual average psi of milsurp 7x57 is much higher than most think. I have measured the psi of various milsurp 7x57 [Spanish, Chilean, Venezuelan and German). The measured psi's run from 54,000 upwards of 60,000 psi. The 1918 DWM ran 55,000 psi. The Chilean F.M.F ran 55,300 psi. The the 2 different lots of Spanish PS 1950 ran 60,000+ psi.

I would not shoot one of the 7.62 converted rifle with service 7.62 or .308W ammunition as that conversion has indeed proved to be unsafe. Some of the M95s were also converted using 2 groove barrels believed to have been originally made for the M1903A3. I have see a couple of those but the rifling didn't exactly look like that in 'A3 2 groove barrels so I'm not really sure about those barrel origins. Those would be safe to shoot with standard 7.62 M80 type ball as the psi is similar to the 7x57 milsurp ammunition the Chileans loaded.

However, Dutch's cautions regarding the sleeved chambered barrels are certainly noteworthy.

[copperlake]

Greetings all the way to Homer...

Your basic misunderstanding here is 1-how gov't bureaucracies work... 2- how military dictatorships work.... 3- the low cost of army conscripts in a South American country.

And while I applaud your technical curiosity I'm afraid your most valid questions will forevermore remain unanswered until the sun burns out and the 3rd ice age encompasses earth. Anything else is just a WAG.


Dutch (who supports the Alaska fishing industry)

Dutchman, thanks for the reply. You probably don't remember me as I haven't been active for some time but I sent you a re-typed copy of what Ackley wrote re his blow-up tests when I went down this rabbit hole:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?181256-Channeling-P-O-Mauser-blow-up-project

I did all that during a time in my life that I had a lot of free time for an unusual reason that changed to having to work, again. Now that I am building my last boat and will never (I hope, at 73 years) have to slave again, I've been thinking about adding some more to that thread in a more deliberate way.

A hat tip that you support an industry that has fed my family.

[copperlake]

Larry, I disagree a bit about setback. It is, obviously, a REAL thing though I understand what you are saying which has to do with manufacturing tolerances: no way under high-speed production can BOTH locking lugs mate perfectly with their mating surfaces - not possible. Longitudinal bolt slop can take up some of that not both lugs mating perfectly and I have seen that differential in some actions- one lug impressed deeper than another, measurably from (what else to go by?) the receiver ring face.

A little anecdote: I have four Brazilian FN 1894 receivers that have been around the block judging by their exterior condition and NONE of them even show polish on the lug races. I have turned two into shooters and boy, howdy, they are hard as bricks to work.

[Larry Gibson]

copperlake

I don't think we're in disagreement at all. Yes, there can indeed be lug setback. My point is; we should not infer that normal "seating/mating" of the bolt lugs be confused with actual setback. Often that is the case which leads to the unnecessary condemnation of many actions.

[copperlake]

copperlake

I don't think we're in disagreement at all. Yes, there can indeed be lug setback. My point is; we should not infer that normal "seating/mating" of the bolt lugs be confused with actual setback. Often that is the case which leads to the unnecessary condemnation of many actions.

Larry, then we agree, thank you.

I feel compelled to attach a pic of extreme setback. I could go on about what I think this pic reveals about a 1916 mauser coming apart as it relates to how (I think) most bolt actions come undone but that would be pages. Nonetheless, here we have 'setback' in the extreme.

As you said: "If the set back did continue then eventually the bolt would form a recess in the lug area and could not be opened after firing because the case would hold the lugs back in the recesses." I offer the pic to pointedly confirm your statement.

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