Trap Loads

[richhodg66]

So, got into trap last year and havebeen enjoying it. I'm a hoarder and had been accumulating quite a bit of shotgun stuff (rather eclectic bunch of stuff) and since the cheap shells at Wal Mart are nowhere to be found, I decided to finally get off my butt and do it.

Loader is a Lee Load All (I'll evetually get a better one, have a MEC for 16 gauge) and I found a combination using the Federal hulls I had a bunch of from saving them after a trap session, Winchester 209, 19 grains of 700X, Claybuster equivalent of the WAA12SL wad and 1 1/8 ounce of 7 1/2, Loaded 50 Saturday and started off good, then had several fizzle out, a couple left wads in the gun which I was being alert for and punched them out, but it was a frustrating start. I was worried that quantity of 700X had gone bad as it's quite old.

So, back to the drawing board. Reloaded the hulls, same load, only this time I was very careful to keep the powder hopper full, tap the charge bar several times before charging and look in every hull before seating a wad. Back to the range yesterday afternoon and they all worked perfectly. Had that range to myself, didn't even ask for a scorer (they hire high school kids to do it and since I was mainly interested in whether my handloads would work, liked being solo). I think I hit 19 one round and 18 on the other which is a decent day for me, sometimes I do better but can't count on it.

I know a lot of you guys are old hands and this doesn't sound like much but it was pretty much my first time seriously loading any shotgun shells. Those Federal hulls crimp real nice, I reloaded them after I got back along with 50 more, still holding nice crimps after three firings. They have a big bin there that the kids put all the empties they police up in, free to anybody who wants them so I took a few minutes to get a bag of those same hulls, I should be set for a while.

I'm pretty pleased with that Load-All too. As cheaply made as it is, it seems to turn out good ammo, though as I learned, one has to be careful with it. All in all, a cool experience, I've been a metallic cartridge handloader and bullet caster forever, it's been a while since I delved into something handloading related that was completely new to me.

[toallmy]

Keep a eye on the hulls with a paper base in the hull - due to dampness .

[MrWolf]

I prefer the Remington greens and the handicaps and load on my Mec. The gun club shells work well also. I much preferred to adjust our loads and powder based upon how my son and I shot. I finally settled on the Hodgen International Clay's and Winchester primers. It can be a lil harder felt recoil but it fit our style. Allowed us to play or compete. We would try and hit the bird as close to the ground as possible or as fast as possible out of the trap house. Really worked well for handicaps. Good luck.
Ron

[richhodg66]

I prefer the Remington greens and the handicaps and load on my Mec. The gun club shells work well also. I much preferred to adjust our loads and powder based upon how my son and I shot. I finally settled on the Hodgen International Clay's and Winchester primers. It can be a lil harder felt recoil but it fit our style. Allowed us to play or compete. We would try and hit the bird as close to the ground as possible or as fast as possible out of the trap house. Really worked well for handicaps. Good luck.
Ron

These were more, "let me put together something from what I have around" kind of thing. I got probably 3/4th of an eight pound keg of 700X from Dad I've been whittling away at for a few years, great stuff in a lot of things I shoot, but it's gonna go a lot faster now.

I would like to get the payload down to an ounce rather than the 1 1/8th ounce. I have a few shotgun manuals, I just need to read through them and figure it out.

[No_1]

I have 5 complete Hornady 366’s as well as a “parts” press, a decent size box of parts to keep them running, some really nice replacement shot/powder reservoirs from a gentleman named Jim Skeel , a drum of Winchester AA hulls, a few bags of WAA12SL wads, a couple cases of primers and 4 or 5 bags of shot. I always figured “one day” I would get around to it.

[Half Dog]

I took kiddo to trap shoot for his birthday once, he’s been hooked ever since. I have been able to hit a few but he does much better than I do. I recently took him to shoot sporting clays and he did even better. This is his thing now. I do the reloading so I constantly look for components, which is a challenge lately. I load 3/4 oz of #8 shot. After a while of shooting the 3/4 oz loads I give him a heavier load and he says he can’t hardly tell a difference. So now I squeeze a few more shots out of a bag of shot. Similar to metallic reloading, I enjoy the shotshell reloading too.

[toallmy]

One of my happiest memories from my youth is the fellow that had a little gun shop in my very rural area that would let some of us kids load shells on a load all he had bolted to the counter . He even supplied the components you just needed to bring your own hulls .

[Hogtamer]

700x is an excellent powder for your purpose but will sometimes "bridge" in a drop tube. I have used fine sandpaper to smooth the inside of the powder bushing. Also make sure you weigh the charge. I have found that the Loadall bushings drop less than stated and I have to move up one or two bushing sizes to get the correct charge, especially with the flaked powders. Trust your scale, not the chart. One other thing,the Win wads may not seal completly in the staight wall Fed hulls.

[farmbif]

there's lots of load data available these days and what hog tamer says rings true, federal cheddite fiocchi and rio hulls are straight walled and should get loaded with wads for straight walled hulls. winchester and Remington for the most part are tapered walled and correct wads for these should be used for best results.
as far as powder bridging in press there is something that can be said for using a 600jr or size master and slamming the charge bar back and forth when using powder that doesn't flow so well. compared to running a 9000 and being careful to make sure everything is going right all the time. ive never had problems with red dot green dot or blue dot or herco

[dverna]

Get yourself some Promo. It is all I used for singles and doubles when shooting competitively. It is inexpensive and does a good job on most pistol light to mid range pistol loads. It is the powder used for "The Load" for CF cast rifle rounds (Promo uses the same data as Red Dot, but varies in density so you need to verify powder drops with bushings on shotshell reloaders).

Have fun. BTW, you will get a lot of advice on loads. I used 1 oz loads for practice and first shot of doubles as they use less shot so it saves a few $$ and the reduced recoil on the first shot of doubles helps get to the second bird a tad quicker. None of the good (and I mean really good) shooters used 1 oz loads for singles when it mattered. #8 shot is great for singles and short Handicap. Lots of folks talk about 7/8 loads "hitting just as hard"....ignore them. Physics does not support their opinions and the reality is more shot will yield more hits and harder breaks. But for "fun" shooting a 1 oz load is fine.

Best time you can spend is to pattern your gun/load. It can be an eye opener.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Now that you are hooked on Reloading Shotshells, you need to get a little better machine to load them. Load All's are fine for getting you hooked, but you are going to need a little more production if you are going to shoot much.

You should be able to load 100 rounds per hour on a Single Stage Press like a Hornady/Pacific DL266 or MEC 600. You should be able to load 400+ rounds per hour on a Progressive Loader like a Hornady/Pacific DL366 or anyone of the more involved Progressives.

You should get 350-400 rounds per 25 lb bag of shot. Depending if you load 1 1/8 or 1 oz loads.

My Standard Trap Load is 18 gr of Green Dot 1 1/8 oz of shot in new style AA hulls. Primers are whatever I can get at the time but I prefer Winchester 209's.

You didn't say what kind of gun you are shooting? Rest assured you're going to need a better one,,, just to keep up with the Jones's.

Great fun huh?

Randy

[richhodg66]

I first started doing this because I wanted to be a more proficient shotgunner, not necessarily a trap shooter. So, I started with the gun I figured I'd hunt mostly with, a 16 gauge side by side. Got some odd looks from guys who were there to actually shoot trap, but I shot that little gun a bunch and got pretty good with it. I did try a few others I have around, but mostly the Stevens double.

At some point I thought this is fun enough I may want to pursue trap for its own sake and looked and asked around. Being a vintage gun kind of guy, I found a good deal on a Model 12 which had been professionally reworked into a trap gun by an outfit in the Kansas City area, can't remember the name of it, but got an almost embarassingly good deal on it. Seems like everybody wanted the tacticool stuff and fine old guns were available.

So I have a good gun, better than my wing shooting likely deserves. I'll upgrade to a better loader someday, but I was rather pleasantly surprised by that Load-All.

[Walks]

I started with the fed paper hull in 1964, Red Dot and a new fed plastic wad. By 1969 We had switched to Win AA hulls, white Win AA12 wad and 700X. A 3 Dram(20.0grs?) load with 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot. Used an a pair of Lyman "Easy" shotshell loaders to start, moved to a MEC 650 by 1970. That Lyman Easy is now the Lee load-all made of very cheap materials.
Unfortunately the newer Win AA hull is now crap. The REM greenie's or golds are the best choice now. Clays powder and a Win AA12 white or Equivalent Claybuster wad. Win 209 work great with Clays. My Hornady Press that I got 20yrs ago came set up for Rem Green hulls.

[richhodg66]

there's lots of load data available these days and what hog tamer says rings true, federal cheddite fiocchi and rio hulls are straight walled and should get loaded with wads for straight walled hulls. winchester and Remington for the most part are tapered walled and correct wads for these should be used for best results.
as far as powder bridging in press there is something that can be said for using a 600jr or size master and slamming the charge bar back and forth when using powder that doesn't flow so well. compared to running a 9000 and being careful to make sure everything is going right all the time. ive never had problems with red dot green dot or blue dot or herco

What's a good wad for the straight walled hulls? Still pretty new and ignorant to this, just followed a book load that used stuff I had. I'll need some more 12 gauge wads soon, might as well buy ones for these Federals since I have a bunch.

[Hogtamer]

Claybuster 12 S3 clone for 1 1/8 loads or 12SO for 1oz. Excellent wads and 1/2 price of Win,Rem etc. 500 in a bag and available at most online stores.

[richhodg66]

Claybuster 12 S3 clone for 1 1/8 loads or 12SO for 1oz. Excellent wads and 1/2 price of Win,Rem etc. 500 in a bag and available at most online stores.

Thanks very much! I'll order some of those 12 SO clones, maybe some of the 12 S3 as well.

[15meter]

I suspect the wad stuck in the gun is the fault of the wad. Those are NOT the wad for Federal hulls. Federal are straight wall, those are for tapered. You will get powder migrating past the wad, not a good thing.

Also check your wad pressure, I would guess you are not seating the wad down onto the powder leaving space that causes erratic ignition.

I'm surprised that you are getting a good crimp, again going back to the wrong wad. The whole column needs to be one solid mass, powder, wad and shot that builds up to the correct length.

When that column height is correct you get solid crimps and shells that go BOOM! with enthusiasm.

And 700x is good powder for shotgun, it's also a great powder for a lot of cast boolit loads, I use it in both 12 trap and skeet loads and 30-06 loads.

Claybuster wads have been around for a lot of years, used to buy them by the case when I was shooting shotgun all the time. Still have a the equivalent of a case or so in 410, 28, 20, 16 and 12. The only gauge I have "other" wads in is 16, biggest reason is I came across a batch at a garage sale cheap.

[richhodg66]

The wads getting stuck was me not being vigilant about keeping the hopper full enough and developing a process to make sure the hulls were getting chargedfully. After I figured that out, they all worked perfectly. The load in my Lyman manual called for this wad and Federal hulls, so couldn't be that bad, but I'll switch to some Winchester AAs to use up that bag of wads.

Agreed on 700X. I got a lot of it from my Dad a few years ago, probably six pounds and then another unopened canister of about that same size. Been using it in all kinds of things from .38 Special up to light bullet 100 yard loads in .45-70 and it is good stuff, almost as versatile as Unique, and my Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Handbook seems to have data for it in just about everything. I love the stuff.

[beezapilot]

Oh, my. Shotgun sports and reloading. You are gonna like this aspect of the hobby, methinks.
I'm an outlier on loading for and shooting trap, not everyone agrees and I'm OK with that. This is probably more than you asked.
I use Remington and Winchester 8 point crimps hulls as a rule, just so I've only to buy one style of wads. Claybusters is my preference in branding. There are wads for tapered hulls and wads for straight hulls, they are not interchangable. Personally, living in humid Fla, I don't trust paperbased hulls at all. Follow the manual accurately.
Just as you take your rifle loads to the range to see how they shoot, consider taking your shotgun to the pattern board and see how your shot-shells do.

Pattern size and pattern density. How big a spread and how many pellets in there. You'd not shoot a squirrel with a .300 WinMag, so at the 16 yard line you may to have to beat yourself up with 1-1/8th oz loads if your pattern size does not require that much lead / that many pellets to be effective at the range you shoot.

16 Yards- I shoot 3/4 OZ loads with Promo/Red-Dot
21 Yard handicap- 1 OZ loads.
First shot at doubles 7/8ths OZ second shot is the only time shooting trap that I use 1-1/8 OZ.

Sounds like a lot to have 4 loads for a 12 gauge, but those 4 see me through being in the field, skeet, sporting clays, and 5 stand as well. I've enough hulls kicking around that all the loads are different colors so should they get mixed, I still know exactly what they are.

A plug too for MEC loaders should you upgrade, there is a 9000 at the club that may be had at a good deal- should you be interested I'll inquire.

[Hogtamer]

^^^^ Plus he sells me good hulls!!!
These work well too...
https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=TUW&i=G2212
For the record I seldom shoot clays. My loads are primarily for doves and we shoot a bunch of them. But I know that 17 -18 gr 700x is dynamite for doves out of IC choke and about 9,000 psi. And yes, as beez suggested, pattern your gun and get a good mental picture of your load.

[farmbif]

ive grown to like the federal wads for straight wall, use a lot of 12s3 and 12s4. there are clones of these but I always stock up on the real ones when they are available.
there are also quite a few options out there. ballistic products is a great resource for everything shotshell.
for target, skeet trap using Winchester AA and Remington nitro 27 hulls ive used a lot of figure 8 and wAA12 wads. these newer Remington hulls that a smooth rather than ribbed are pretty durable and can be reloaded a bunch of times before splitting
ive probably got at least 20 or so different wads in 12 and 20 gauge so I can put together target or hunting loads no matter what kind of hulls I can come across.

[Texas by God]

I need to get back to loading shotgun shells. I have a 12 gauge Mec 600, I just need some Red Dot and shot. I'd also like a Load All for .410 if they made them. I've never loaded 20 gauge even though it's the most used gauge here- I stocked up heavily on " Dove&Quail" loads decades ago and still have a bunch.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[richhodg66]

"never loaded 20 gauge even though it's the most used gauge here"

I shot exclusively for almost a year with a 16 and a 12 just feels like a cannon anymore, but there is a definite advantage to the bigger gauge.

I got a MEC 650 in 20 gauge from an antique shop in Andover a while back for fifty bucks. The 20 is a bit more miserly of components as well. Somewhere around here I have an H&R 20 gauge with a rifled barrel, so I need to get back to that round ball project.

[rking22]

There is a definite advantage to a M12 over the SxS :)
Can’t see any reason to throw more than 7/8 oz of shot at a 16 yard target. That is the mandated load for bunker and the targets are much faster and more difficult. Handicap yardages towards the back then filling the pattern more densely is worth the recoil, but a 1 1/8 oz full choke pattern is the same size as a full choke 7/8 or 1 oz pattern, just more dense. Makes the target deader. Most missed targets are shooter error and a golden bb dosent help that. Recoil is fatiguing, there is a cost to that fatigue.

[dverna]

There is a definite advantage to a M12 over the SxS :)
Can’t see any reason to throw more than 7/8 oz of shot at a 16 yard target. That is the mandated load for bunker and the targets are much faster and more difficult. Handicap yardages towards the back then filling the pattern more densely is worth the recoil, but a 1 1/8 oz full choke pattern is the same size as a full choke 7/8 or 1 oz pattern, just more dense. Makes the target deader. Most missed targets are shooter error and a golden bb dosent help that. Recoil is fatiguing, there is a cost to that fatigue.

You, and most others, would benefit from reading this:

Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation
Book by Andrew C. Jones

It is sad to see advice based on opinions.

The good news....for trap shooters breaking 90 birds out of 100. Those 7/8 Oz loads are saving you money...lol.

IIRC, Dr Jones showed even with a perfect shot, with less than 1 1/8 Oz of shot, an element of luck is required to shoot a perfect score due to random holes in the pattern. BTW, you can prove that by patterning your load, to see the holes in the pattern. When you do this, bear in mind the clay does not present a circular target, so tilt ge bird and check for misses. Take 10 shots...paper is cheap.

One other factor. One pellet will not always break the bird. All this stuff does not matter if you are shooting for fun. It does not matter if you break 22 or 23 out of 25. Serious shooters need a load that can break 200/200.

[richhodg66]

I really doubt I'll ever get serious enough about it to worry that much about loads. The Model 12 I'm using is so heavy that recoil isn't really a problem.

Experimenting around with different handloads is fun, though, and I'm learning a lot. The cost of shot is going to be a problem, I had some I accumulated, but found a guy advertising on Craigslist who makes it selling for about half what I could find it for. He was close enough to where I was going once anyway, that it was worth my time to drive over and meet him. Hopefully he keeps it up, because the stuff will go quick.

Went out with #1 son and each shot two rounds last night. I just used an 870 in 16 gauge I picked up and hadn't shot yet, didn't do terribly, but not as well as usual. We shot with an older guy and his grandson, the old man was shooting a Ljutic and didn't miss a one. Likely been an avid trap shooter for decades.

It really is a lot of fun, but I really don't want any shooting to get so competitive that it becomes like work.

[dverna]

rich,

At many state ATA shoots there are vendors selling stuff at reasonable prices. I would buy all my shot, wads, powder and primers at either the Michigan or Ohio state shoots or the Regional Grand held in MI. One vendor was selling reclaimed shot for a decent discount. Many guys used it and it seems to work fine.

I did not buy any as I would not risk possible damage to the barrels (my K-80 was worth over $15k) and I was shooting over 15k rounds a year. For the recreational shooter, I think reclaimed shot is never going to make much difference. It is typically a mix of 7 1/2's and 8's.

Look up the ATA web site, and see how far you are from your state shoot. I believe vendors attend the large skeet shoots as well and that is another source for components. Prices are normally good at these events. I have never seen 16 ga wads but they sold stuff for the other gauges. Also, DownRange wads are good if you can find them.

[rking22]

You, and most others, would benefit from reading this:

Sporting Shotgun Performance: Measurement, Analysis, Optimisation
Book by Andrew C. Jones

It is sad to see advice based on opinions.

The good news....for trap shooters breaking 90 birds out of 100. Those 7/8 Oz loads are saving you money...lol.

IIRC, Dr Jones showed even with a perfect shot, with less than 1 1/8 Oz of shot, an element of luck is required to shoot a perfect score due to random holes in the pattern. BTW, you can prove that by patterning your load, to see the holes in the pattern. When you do this, bear in mind the clay does not present a circular target, so tilt ge bird and check for misses. Take 10 shots...paper is cheap.

One other factor. One pellet will not always break the bird. All this stuff does not matter if you are shooting for fun. It does not matter if you break 22 or 23 out of 25. Serious shooters need a load that can break 200/200.
Not based on opinion, nor reading a book or shooting paper, it’s based on shooting 1000s of those international loads at bunker and 16 yard trap as well as watching more thousands of them shot. When a target dosent break, I did something wrong. Generally breaking my focus on the bird early. Trap shooters are the biggest consumer of release triggers and all sort of other stuff to help with their flinch, that comes from the constant pounding of those loads. Shooting the Grand, and actually able to run that 200, sure throw that extra shot if you want. If allowed, I would use those handicap 7 1/2s on the second barrel on the bunker, needed at the distance for pattern density, but I’d stay at 7/8 on the first shot. Learning and training, shoot a tight choke and loads that are notably more cost effective and less tiring to shoot. Here’s more unpopular trap thoughts, 8 and 8 1/2 break 16 yard targets reliably, and give a very dense pattern, compare 1 1/8 oz pellet count of 7 1/2 to 7/8 oz of 8 1/2 of 8s. We shall agree to disagree.

[dverna]

rking

I have walked the walk.

Between 2010 and 2013 I averaged 97.39 on 8300 registered Singles targets. With HC and Doubles, another 17,900 registered targets. Total of over 26k competition target in four years. You can verify the numbers on the ATA website as my name is Donald Verna so easy to look up. Plus over 40k practice targets during those four years.

Health and family issues have kept me from competing but I still shoot for fun.

We can agree to disagree...but I doubt you can school me on trap shooting or load selection.

BTW you are incorrect about the main reason for a release trigger. I shoot double release and flinching from recoil is not the reason most people use them.

[rking22]

That’s good shooting, but my point is how many targets have you shot with the 1 oz and under loads? Designed experiment to actually test the concept. Consistently breaking 98/100 targets with the chosen load does not prove that a different load will cost you targets, only that the load you shoot achieves that percentage. I am pointing out that, for someone learning the game, the additional 2 to 4 boxes of loads from a bag of shot is worth more than worrying about the possibility of a fringed target not getting chipped. The cumulative effect of recoil is worth considering as well. I would not be continuing this discussion except for others reading this in the future. I see too many small of frame people being coerced into shooting loads that have more detriment than benefit. Actually try the loads over a significant stretch of scored targets and decide then, with all the facts. Most missed targets are owned by the human behind the trigger. No intention to be argumentative, I do not intend it that way.

On the release, all I know is what folk shooting them tell me. I shoot too many varied vintage guns to be interested in one.

[15meter]

The wads getting stuck was me not being vigilant about keeping the hopper full enough and developing a process to make sure the hulls were getting chargedfully. After I figured that out, they all worked perfectly. The load in my Lyman manual called for this wad and Federal hulls, so couldn't be that bad, but I'll switch to some Winchester AAs to use up that bag of wads.

Agreed on 700X. I got a lot of it from my Dad a few years ago, probably six pounds and then another unopened canister of about that same size. Been using it in all kinds of things from .38 Special up to light bullet 100 yard loads in .45-70 and it is good stuff, almost as versatile as Unique, and my Lyman 3rd Edition Cast Handbook seems to have data for it in just about everything. I love the stuff.

I'm surprised that was a listed load, never had good luck with AA wads in Federal hulls or vice versa. When I stuck to the correct wad style for the hull they seemed to shoot considerably better.

If it works for you go for it!

Waste not want not.

[MrWolf]

rking

I have walked the walk.

Between 2010 and 2013 I averaged 97.39 on 8300 registered Singles targets. With HC and Doubles, another 17,900 registered targets. Total of over 26k competition target in four years. You can verify the numbers on the ATA website as my name is Donald Verna so easy to look up. Plus over 40k practice targets during those four years.

Health and family issues have kept me from competing but I still shoot for fun.

We can agree to disagree...but I doubt you can school me on trap shooting or load selection.

BTW you are incorrect about the main reason for a release trigger. I shoot double release and flinching from recoil is not the reason most people use them.

Very nice. You made me go back and look. Only really shot 2011 & 2012 but I also preferred the 1 1/8 loads of 7 1/2. It really comes down to a personal preference. My back was bad back then but wanted to shoot with my son. Proper technique really helps to absorb the pounding so I really wouldn't worry about it. According to ATA, I shot almost 4,450 of singles at over 94%, 3,100 handicap at over 86%, and 3,200 of doubles at about 84%. Not as good as you guys but decent for someone only shooting a few years. You really do need to practice and I really did notice a improvement once I started reloading to our shooting style. Have fun with it. I wish I could still shoot trap, especially with my son. Best of luck.
Ron

[richhodg66]

Been giving this quite a bit of thought lately. I went to the range and shot two rounds with the Model 12, hit 18 first round and 21 the second which is a pretty good round for me. I used that same load with the Federal hulls and Winchester wads.

Something that I've noticed which may just be my imagination or wishful thinking, my handloads seem to break clay birds more decisively than the cheap 100 packs stuff I had been using. Not sure why, but I never patterned the cheap shells or my handloads yet.

The discussion here about 7/8 ounce loads verses 1 1/8 ounce loads. I can certainly see the argument that it's better to shoot more and have less recoil, but also I'm sure them more shot makes a difference. So far, recoil is not a problem with this gun, but I am also not a good enough shooter to tell. I know after two or three rounds, I don't feel beat up. Never shot doubles on trap, so no frame of reference.

So payload matters, does velocity? Would a higher velocity load make a difference either in terms of hitting more or breaking them more surely when you do hit them? Also, 7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot, any advantage to any of them? I have a lot of 7 1/2 so that's what I've been using.

Those Federal top gun hulls crimp real nicely for me and seem to load easily on the Load All. It's also nice that I can pick up 100 or more once fired ones every trip to the range. I'm gonna order Claybuster 12S0 and 12S3 clones, but in the meantime want to use up the Winchester wads I have, so I went through the bin today and grabbed some of the new AA hulls, quite a few of the green Remington Gun Club hulls, which I am told are very good, and some of the gold colored Remington hulls (Nitro?). Which of these would you guys recommend for these tapered style wads?

This is a lot of fun. I kind of thought shot shell reloading wasn't going to interest me like metallic cartridge stuff.

[Hogtamer]

If shooting skeet use the 9's. 8's then 7 1/2s for the longer shots. And yes, higher velocity will keep the pattern tighter, within reason. A 1oz load at 1300fps is a hammer.

[Budzilla 19]

New style AA hulls, Remington Premier, the green ones or Nitro 27 hulls are all good for reloading!
I have loaded , literally, thousands of them!! Gave it up for a while, might get back in when the stupid stuff slows down a little! Skeet and trap, I shoot them both! Good luck to ya

[dverna]

Been giving this quite a bit of thought lately. I went to the range and shot two rounds with the Model 12, hit 18 first round and 21 the second which is a pretty good round for me. I used that same load with the Federal hulls and Winchester wads.

Something that I've noticed which may just be my imagination or wishful thinking, my handloads seem to break clay birds more decisively than the cheap 100 packs stuff I had been using. Not sure why, but I never patterned the cheap shells or my handloads yet.

The discussion here about 7/8 ounce loads verses 1 1/8 ounce loads. I can certainly see the argument that it's better to shoot more and have less recoil, but also I'm sure them more shot makes a difference. So far, recoil is not a problem with this gun, but I am also not a good enough shooter to tell. I know after two or three rounds, I don't feel beat up. Never shot doubles on trap, so no frame of reference.

So payload matters, does velocity? Would a higher velocity load make a difference either in terms of hitting more or breaking them more surely when you do hit them? Also, 7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot, any advantage to any of them? I have a lot of 7 1/2 so that's what I've been using.

Those Federal top gun hulls crimp real nicely for me and seem to load easily on the Load All. It's also nice that I can pick up 100 or more once fired ones every trip to the range. I'm gonna order Claybuster 12S0 and 12S3 clones, but in the meantime want to use up the Winchester wads I have, so I went through the bin today and grabbed some of the new AA hulls, quite a few of the green Remington Gun Club hulls, which I am told are very good, and some of the gold colored Remington hulls (Nitro?). Which of these would you guys recommend for these tapered style wads?

This is a lot of fun. I kind of thought shot shell reloading wasn't going to interest me like metallic cartridge stuff.

I use 1 1/8 Oz of #8’s at about 1145 fps for competition and 1 Oz of 8’s at 1145 for practice. I will break about 1-2 birds less out of 100 with the light load.

Velocity is not going to help much. You will be breaking birds at about 32 yards when shooting from the 16 yard line. The faster pellets lose velocity faster and at the range you are hitting birds there is little gain. If you want more energy, go to 7 1/2’s....they carry better than 8’s.

As to hulls, the STS hulls are the best 12 ga hull. There is no difference between the green or gold hulls when loading.

I used a lot of the Top Gun and Estate Federal hulls for shooting doubles. I would reload them once and pitch them. Do not try to get a lot of reloads out of them. The older ones I used had a paper base that erodes with every shot....I think the newer hulls may have plastic so check that out. When I dumpster dove for the old Top Gun hulls I would let them sit for a month to make sure there was no moisture in the base wad,

[richhodg66]

Looking in these, it appears to be plastic. I've been meaning to cut a few hulls apart, mainly to satisfy my curiosity, to see exactly what they're all like. These Federal Top Guns are so plentiful at this range, I don't see a need to load them very many times. Once I figure out the load I'll standardize on, which will probably involve these and 700X, I'll probably load up a bunch of them on a rainy day.

[megasupermagnum]

There have been 3 variations of the Top Gun. #1 was a traditional Federal fiber basewad, and they used that for a number of years. These took an American sized 209 Primer. #2 was made by Rio for Federal, had a plastic basewad, and took a European size 209 primer. They only made these 2 maybe 3 years as best I can tell. #3 they started around 2018-2019 and continues today, and that is a plastic basewad, except made by Federal, and fits an American sized 209. I love these hulls, and took home a 55 gallon drum of them. They have just about the same internal volume as the Federal Gold Medal, and I recommend you load these with gold medal data. They last a similar life to a gold medal hull. Really the only drawback to them is their head's are steel, but the gold medals are steel too now.

These are definitely worth reloading, every bit as good as the other "free" American primer size hull, the Remington gun club. I'd take either over a new AA.

[6pt-sika]

I keep four CB wads on my shelf for the 12 gauge . Copies of the WAA12 and WAA12SL as well as the CB AA wads for 7/8 and 3/4 ounce loads . I’m finding if I use the 3/4 ounce load with 7/8 ounce of shot it makes a cream puff skeet and 16 yard trap load . Also does pretty fair at 5 stand . I push it mostly with American Select but Promo/Red Dot can be applied as well .

[6pt-sika]

As to hulls I’ve got several thousand REM STS , several thousand old AA’s , a couple thousand old Peters Blue Magic and a few thousand new AA’s . Some folks differentiate or segregate them , I load them all the same and never had or noticed a problem . Matter of fact I have two flats of old AA factory loads with #8’s and two flats of STS factory #8’s I probably oughtta shoot and add the hulls to my pile . Have a flat of STS Nitro HNDCP 7 1/2 1 ounce loads I might use for the first shot at a pigeon match in august and some factory Flyer 7 1/2 - 1 1/4 in the second barrel . Fifteen bird match but two shots required per bird regardless of whether you kill it with the first shot or not .